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Interview With Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk; Russian Attacks Intensifying. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 07, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:24]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Russian troops unleashing even more devastation Ukraine today. There's heavy fighting to the north and the west of Kyiv, Russian missile strikes ripping through apartment buildings and destroying entire city blocks.

New video that was geolocated by CNN shows Russian tanks taking positions in a densely populated area in the district of Irpin. A senior U.S. defense official says Russian forces are -- quote -- "increasing bombardments" on major cities across Ukraine and the strikes are hitting civilian infrastructure.

Here are just a few grim examples. The Ukrainian state emergency services say 13 people were killed when a shell hit a bakery in the town of Makariv.

BLACKWELL: And some people who tried to leave their homes through a civilian evacuation point were hit by a Russian mortar or artillery shell.

A warning that this next video it is difficult to watch. In just seconds, eight people were killed there, including a family, a mother and her two children.

A Ukrainian security official says that Russia is shifting its focus to the south, where these explosions were captured on video. Their goal is apparently to cut off Ukrainian access to the Black and Azov seas.

Ukraine and Russia just wrapped up a third round of talks.

CAMEROTA: Anderson Cooper is live with us in Lviv in Western Ukraine.

So, Anderson, so many people across Ukraine have fled to where you are in Lviv, and the mayor there just announced that the city has reached its capacity to deal with this influx. So what's happening?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, we -- I mean, we have seen hundreds of thousands of people coming through Lviv.

We have seen the scenes at the train station now for more than a week. Just here are some of the numbers that have been released by the mayor's office; 200,000 people are now taking shelter in the city from violence elsewhere in the country, from Odessa and Kharkiv and Kyiv; 440 what they call cultural or educational facilities, schools and the like, 85 religious buildings, they are being used to house displaced people.

Local officials and volunteers, they're providing people with food, other essentials, but the mayor says that they have really reached capacity, that they need help. He said the city needs -- they need tents, they need food, they need medical supplies, and they need volunteers from other countries, the mayor says.

So, earlier today, actually we were at a place that has been taken over by moms who are just doing whatever they can to kind of marshal supplies to send them elsewhere to their children who are fighting on the front or their husbands who are fighting on the front lines.

CNN senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt is live from Kyiv, from the Kyiv region.

So, Alex, the third round of talks between Russia and Ukraine, delegations apparently just wrapped up. There was apparently some small progress, we're told, made on the issue of humanitarian corridors, although I feel like we heard that the last time as well. What do you know?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this was the third round of talks.

As you noted, the Russians are saying that there will be more. It's always good one discussions are happening. But now, after three rounds of talks, it does not look like really much progress was made, the Ukrainians saying that there was some small progress in terms of the understanding of how these corridors should work.

But at the same time, the Russians are walking away from these talks, we just got some comments from them, calling the Ukrainians difficult partners and saying that their expectations were not met.

Keep in mind, both sides are coming into these talks from very different standpoints. The Russians want major, major expectations to be met by the Ukrainians, like them agreeing not to join the E.U. or NATO or Ukraine agreeing to recognize Crimea as part of Russia and those eastern breakaway promises as independent. That's not where Ukraine is right now. Ukraine wants to make sure that

there's a cease-fire. They want the fighting to stop. They want Russian troops to withdraw. And they want to make sure that civilians can get to safety.

So, the conversations are continuing, but we don't know if there's any sort of concrete progress on these humanitarian corridors, which, remember, the ones that Russia has suggested would have Ukrainian citizens walk into Belarus or into Russia. That is certainly not where they want to be.

[14:05:15]

And, Anderson, earlier today, we heard the French foreign minister talk about how this is straight out of the Russian playbook. This is what they do. They bombard. Then they suggest that a corridor is set up. They go to negotiations. That corridor then comes under attack, and the Russians accuse the other side of a provocation, everything falls apart, and they go straight back to bombing.

And that is what we have seen over the course of the past few days. In fact, the Russians today, just today, in those talks, accused the Ukrainians of the one -- of violating the agreements over those corridors, of Nazis, they said, firing on the Ukrainians to -- who are trying to get out.

So it does not appear that much progress was made in this third round of talks -- Anderson.

COOPER: A U.S. defense official says the Russian forces are, in their words, increasing bombardments of major Ukrainian cities, including Kharkiv, Kyiv as well as Mykolaiv and Mariupol in south. What's the latest on that?

MARQUARDT: Well, this was a significant fear.

Here we are more than a week into this war, and Russia has not made much progress on the ground. So the concern was, to make up for it, that they would start stepping up their aerial bombardment. And that -- that does appear to be what they are doing.

We're hearing increasing comparisons to places like Aleppo, to Grozny. And what that means is that it's starting to look like Russia wants to bomb Ukraine into submission, that they are starting to lay waste to civilian areas. Now, of course, they have been claiming since the beginning that they're only going after military targets.

We know now that that is absolutely not true. We are seeing an increasing number of civilian targets hit, whether that is government buildings or large residence blocks or schools, anything like that. And so, when it comes to Kyiv, which, of course, is the first prize or the top prize for Russia, they are stepping up their efforts to encircle it, particularly from the north and from the west.

Their troops have really moved in. They have been flushing out people who are trying to -- who are desperately running away from those areas, trying to evacuate. We have seen those forces coming in to places like Irpin, which is -- yesterday, where that horrific scene unfolded with a bombing or shelling right on an evacuation checkpoint, killing four people there and eight people all told.

We have seen Russian tanks moving into residential areas. So it is clear that the Russian forces are trying to push in closer. We believe that their intentions are to come farther south and to fully encircle the city and to try to cut it off, of course, and to decapitate this government.

We have heard from the mayor of Kyiv, who said that the Russians are acting with rage, and that they are -- they're going after civilian targets with absolute indiscrimination -- Anderson.

COOPER: You also were reporting on a Russian strike that kills civilians in a residential town. Talk about what you saw there. What happened?

MARQUARDT: I think that's a perfect example of what we have started to see more and more of.

This was a village that was 15 miles, is 15 miles just south of the capital. It's an area that people live in before they commute into work most days. It was largely empty by the time we got there. Many people had fled.

Now, this missile strike, we believe, by the Russians happened on Friday. And by the time we got there yesterday, it was -- there was just one lone small country road that was surrounded by rubble. And when we got there, there was this large crater, which was the home of Igor Majayev.

and we spoke with him. He is a 54-year-old man who had just lost five members of his family and a family friend. Among those who were killed were his 12-year-old daughter who was in a wheelchair, after having been in an accident with a drunk driver, and his wife. It was just an absolutely devastating scene of -- and speaking to a man who had lost it all, his home, his family, who didn't know what he was going to do next.

And it really just spoke to really two things, Anderson, the fact that this was far from a military target. There was absolutely no justification by the Russians to bomb this area. And yet they did, causing so much damage to just one family. And that is taking place all across the country.

And it also speaks to the question that so many Ukrainians are now facing. Do they stay or do they leave? Do they try to ride this out? Or do they become part of the hundreds of thousands, now more than 1.7 million Ukrainians, to leave this country, Anderson?

[14:10:05]

COOPER: Yes, the man able to stand there and talk to you after his wife and child have been killed, it's just extraordinary.

Alex Marquardt, I appreciate it. Thank you.

The fighting in Ukraine, of course, has brought -- created a growing humanitarian crisis. We have seen this now for more than this past week, thousands of refugees pouring across Ukraine's border to other countries, mostly to Poland, but also Romania, Moldova. They're seeking safety and shelter, more than half -- a-million-and-a-half already.

CNN's Clarissa Ward witnessed tense moments earlier today, as crowds packed the train station in Kyiv rushing onto a train, hoping for a spot to get out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We were at the train station about a week ago. And it was nothing like this scene.

There is definitely an intensification, an urgency as people are trying to get out of the country, out of the city, as we're seeing this push on the northwest and western parts of Kyiv. These trains are now packed full of people who are desperately trying to get out of the city as the sense and the fear grows that Russia is sort of tightening its noose, moving down across the south and towards the southern- western part of the city, which would then mean that this city is totally encircled.

And the fear is that they will lay siege to it. These people, some of them have been waiting here for hours. They have been pushing, shoving, desperately trying to get out. And it's just awful to see the fear in people's eyes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, officials in Romania say they have been seeing thousands of refugees arriving every single day since Russia invaded Ukraine.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is at a train station in Bucharest. He joins us now.

So, Romanian officials said they have not seen anything like this since World War II, I understand.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It feels like we are stuck in a film from World War II. Train stations have now become a lifeline, not just in Kyiv, not just in Poland, but everywhere.

This is the Bucharest central station. We just had two trains come in, hundreds of people pouring off. Most of them seem to be refugees, just a couple of bags, maybe their pet carriers.

I want to show you something over here. They have several refugee centers set up in the train station now. This one caught our interest. I'm trying to be respectful of people who have just gotten off these trains. They may not want a camera in their face. But they have these tents set up for temporary housing, breast-

feeding, mothers who have kids who have just arrived here. Officials here in Romania say that they have a flood of refugees now. They are preparing for a tidal wave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RAED ARAFAT, ROMANIAN DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY SITUATIONS: It will become much worse before it becomes better. I mean, we are expecting the numbers to increase.

Now we see a change in the pressure from the area of Siret, where we used to have the highest pressure. Now the pressure is going towards the borders with Moldova. And they are coming to pass through Moldova, to Romania. So, the numbers are becoming larger there.

Now Romania is planning to open a green line between the borders between Moldova and Ukraine and the borders in Romania, so that they can pass directly and can be processed after that in Romania.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: So, now, this is one of the central locations in the train station here in Bucharest where refugees can check in and they can hopefully get transportation out of Romania.

Most of the refugees coming into Romania are leaving to other places, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for Romania to deal with the numbers coming across. And they're establishing that green line across Moldova now because they just have so many refugees coming from Odessa and other areas pushing toward Moldova.

They feel that, as that shelling becomes more indiscriminate and as the Russians push farther west, they are just going to see -- they're seeing about 30,000 a day now. They're preparing for 50,000, 60,000, perhaps as many as 100,000 refugees in Romania alone in the next days or weeks -- Anderson.

COOPER: Wow.

Yes, Miguel Marquez, appreciate it. Thank you.

Alisyn and Victor, it's really interesting to see what's happening not just in Poland, which has gotten a lot of attention. Romania hasn't gotten the same amount of attention. I'm so glad that Miguel is there. Moldova, officials there say they are overwhelmed and they're trying to create that corridor to just get the refugees through Moldova into Romania, which is kind of better situated to handle them.

And, obviously, a lot of them will also move on to Poland, maybe into Germany and other places in Europe.

[14:15:00]

CAMEROTA: Yes, Anderson, I mean, the ripple effect that this is causing obviously in Ukraine and then for the rest of the world, we can see through our correspondents.

Thank you. We will check back with you throughout our program.

So, some American officials see several more areas where the U.S. could take action against Russia, everything from a ban on Russian oil imports to a declaration of war crimes.

So, we're going to speak to Ukraine's former prime minister about what he wants the U.S. to do now.

BLACKWELL: And devastating images like these coming out of town surrounding Kyiv, apartment buildings heavily damaged after an airstrike.

We're going to take you there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Well, CNN has learned that the U.S. is now considering supplying critical air defense systems to NATO allies in Eastern Europe.

[14:20:05]

A defense official tells CNN that there is no plan yet, but the idea is under consideration. There's some growing anxiety that the Russians could consider launching missiles or aircraft against NATO's eastern flank. The concern is that Vladimir Putin could determine that those countries are threats because of their support for Ukraine.

The U.S. also wants the air defenses available if there is an inadvertent straying into NATO airspace.

CAMEROTA: A U.S. defense official says Russia has launched 625 missiles against Ukraine so far, many of those hitting civilians,

And there's new reporting that Russia is trying to recruit foreign fighters to join their invasion. President Zelenskyy is accusing Russia of planning deliberate murder in the shelling of civilians. The International Criminal Court has started an investigation for potential war crimes by Russia.

My next guest is calling Vladimir Putin a war criminal.

Joining us is our Arseniy Yatsenyuk. He's -- he was Ukraine's prime minister from 2014 to 2016. And for security reasons, we are not disclosing his location.

Mr. Yatsenyuk, thank you very much for being with us today.

So you're calling Vladimir Putin a war criminal. But what does that mean in practical terms? Obviously, these investigations by the International Criminal Court can take years.

ARSENIY YATSENYUK, FORMER UKRAINIAN PRIME MINISTER: Well, thanks for having me. I'm in Ukraine. I'm not in the position to disclose, but it doesn't

matter.

In terms of his legal responsibility, Putin committed crimes against humanity. He committed a number of atrocities. He's a war criminal. We actually have two ongoing investigations in the International Criminal Court in The Hague and International Court of Justice. This is the court of the U.N.

The time will come when Mr. Putin, who is a Hitler-style president of Russia, will sit behind the bars and will be brought to justice.

CAMEROTA: What more should the U.S. or would you like to see the U.S. be doing right now?

YATSENYUK: Well, here's the thing.

First, I am really grateful that you give me a chance to address the American audience.

I know President Biden in person. We worked together. And let me commend the efforts of President Biden and his administration, supporting Ukrainians, supporting the free world, supporting our fight for our freedom and for our independence.

I beg the U.S., I beg the U.S. administration, personally, the president of the United States, both Republicans and Democrats, to support Ukraine, because this is not just the fight about Ukraine. This is not about our -- it is not just about our independence and our freedom. This is more. This is about more.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

YATSENYUK: This is about the freedom of the world.

He's going -- I mean, this bloody dictator, Putin, he is going after everyone. He's going after American people too. He pose the threat to you.

CAMEROTA: Well...

YATSENYUK: He want to end Pax Americana. We will...

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: You are echoing the sentiments of President Zelenskyy. That's exactly what he has said, that this is a war against the Western world, not just Ukraine.

And, as you know, he's become a worldwide hero, I mean, President Zelenskyy, because of his is tenacity and bravery in fighting back so far against Russian troops.

But is it time for him to leave Ukraine? Is it time for him to set up some sort of government in exile because he's under so much threat right now. YATSENYUK: President Zelenskyy took the oath of the office. His

constitutional duty is to defend and protect the Constitution of Ukraine.

And I strongly believe that he is doing this and he will do it. And I strongly believe that the Western world, the U.S. as the flagship -- no one expected that the U.S. will manage to unite everyone in this world to support Ukraine, will underpin Ukraine, will support Ukraine. And we're going to win in this righteous fight for freedom and liberty.

CAMEROTA: But, Mr. Yatsenyuk, what if, heaven forbid, something happens to President Zelenskyy? Every time he talks to other foreign leaders, he says: This may be the last time you hear from me or this may be the last time you see me alive.

Then what happens?

YATSENYUK: Look, here's the thing.

I don't want even to break into this kind of speculation, OK? It's just wrong. It sends a wrong signal. We have enough ammunition and we have enough secret service forces to defend the president. The president will do his job.

[14:25:00]

I pay tribute to the coverage of Ukrainian men and women in the uniform. No one expect -- look, no one, even in the U.S., that Ukraine will withstand for more than 11 days. We are fighting with the biggest army in the world -- one of the biggest armies in the world, definitely the biggest -- the biggest one in the -- in Europe.

So, please, save Ukraine and save the freedom in this world. This is our joint task. We will win.

CAMEROTA: Arseniy Yatsenyuk, former prime minister, thank you very much. Stay safe. We really appreciate talking to you.

YATSENYUK: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: It's that type of defiance that the Russians did not expect.

CAMEROTA: That's right.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And that has so gripped the entire world. And everyone prays for them and hopes that they're right. But, of course, there are practical considerations.

BLACKWELL: And we know the numbers and the resources as well.

Let's turn now to this WNBA star, Brittney Griner. She's being detained in Russia on drug charges. We have the latest on the efforts to bring her home next.

CAMEROTA: And Russian strikes hit more civilian targets in towns near Kyiv.

We're going to take you to one of the hardest hit by the latest round of attacks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)