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Mykolaiv Prepares for Onslaught; Civilians Evacuating Amid Ceasefire; U.S. Sends Missiles to Poland; Philip Breedlove is Interviewed about Russia and Ukraine; Businesses Leave Russia; Randy Ollenberger is Interviewed about Gas Prices Spiking. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired March 09, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:24]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Evacuating Ukraine. Fourteen days since the Russian invasion began, now both sides have agreed to a 12-hour ceasefire, but will it hold?

Good morning. Top of the hour here. I'm Erica Hill in New York.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Lviv, Ukraine.

Happening right now, thousands of Ukrainians are departing several major cities across the country. So far more than 2 million people have fled Ukraine in just two weeks to various neighboring countries. According to the U.N. human rights office, at least 474 civilians, including 29 children, have been killed since Russia invaded. The U.N. says that number almost certainly much higher.

Last hour, the deputy mayor of Mariupol said there has been no ceasefire evident in his city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY MAYOR SERGEI ORLOV, MARIUPOL, UKRAINE: Mariupol is under continuous shelling from the artillery and bombing, each hour, each minute, each second.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We should note that with previous ceasefires, Russia has used them to further advance its military forces.

There is some news this morning. The Kremlin says Moscow is willing to take part at least in a fourth round of talks with Ukrainian officials as soon as possible. The foreign ministers of both countries are still set to meet tomorrow, though from the Ukrainian side with low expectations.

Take a look at this drone video out of the city of Sumy. Ukrainian troops destroying a Russian military vehicle after 21 people were killed in an attack on that city Monday. This appears to be a shoulder-fired missile involved there.

And in the city of Mykolaiv, tires line the streets as the city prepares for a potential onslaught of Russian troops. Makeshift barriers that the mayor asked people to put out.

CNN is covering every inch of this war here in the region, as well as back in the U.S. Our team of correspondents standing by to bring you the latest.

CNN international security editor Nick Paton Walsh, he is near Odessa, but just returned from the city of Mykolaiv.

It's been one of the hardest hit in recent days. Nick, I'm curious what you witnessed there.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes. I mean the concern, I think, is -- and we saw evidence possibly to this effect yesterday, that the Russian forces having continually tried to blunder their way in have in fact gone over the north of the city, down towards the river, perhaps in a bid to encircle it to some degree. We saw certainly no evidence of any sort of calming in hostilities today. The impact of shelling around the city, the damage done by air strikes to homes, to a vegetable warehouse even, extraordinary. And the hospitals too, Jim, we saw five children who had been injured in what seem to be missile attacks and a number of other people too with horrifying stories of one woman seeing three friends die as she drove in a car on the outskirts of Mykolaiv.

The town itself very much bracing. And I have to say, it's been remarkable driving out of it to see an absence of the traffic ques we've normally been seeing. People are simply not on the roads. The city itself is deathly (ph). Horizontal snow driving across it as we left.

But, remarkably too, since that appeal, at about 5:00 yesterday, from the regional head, Hatali Kim (ph), who's used Telegram (ph) to great effect to broadcast his messages, we've seen tires on literally every street, street corner. It's all part of his plan, it seems to be, to set fire to them in the event that Russian forces enter into the city, to create a confusing blanket of smoke. He asked everyone to not set fire to them until he gave his instruction. But, Jim, that does raise the prospect, the very ugly prospect, of street to street fighting in Mykolaiv.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: And that's exactly what the U.S. military expects Russia to do after encircling these cities.

Nick Paton Walsh, thanks so much.

Let's go now to CNN international correspondent Scott McLean. He is here in Lviv.

So, Scott, as you know, Russia and Ukraine, they've agreed to a 12- hour ceasefire. Russia's track record on this has not been great in recent days to say the least. In fact, explicitly using these ceasefires to advance their forces.

So, what have we seen so far today?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So it's been a little bit of hit and miss. So we have seen success in places like Sumy, where people were able to get out yesterday. That corridor is back open today.

There's also been some success getting people out of Enerhodar (ph). Of course that's the city where the nuclear power plant is now being occupied by Russian forces.

[09:05:01]

But there is a separate route that is taking people from the suburb areas of Kyiv that are currently under intense fire and trying to get them into the city so that they can presumably get on a train, get on a bus and try to get out of the city from there. But several hours after the ceasefire went into effect, there is no signs of anyone actually leaving that area toward Kyiv.

Brianna Keilar spoke with the mayor of Kyiv earlier and she asked him how many people might be trapped in those areas, and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR VITALI KLITSCHKO, KYIV, UKRAINE: Right now, in this moment, there's a green corridors from (INAUDIBLE) because the people was scattered and we (INAUDIBLE). We just received the information. Thousands of the people spent in the bunkers a week already and they doesn't have food and water. And I guess in a couple of hours we have exact numbers, how many people -- how much people we will create from (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: Again, food and water, the critical thing here for obvious reasons.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCLEAN: Another town in the east of Ukraine, Izium (ph). Local authorities there says that there's been heavy fire in that area, seeming to prevent the convoy from moving in that area. So, fingers are crossed that things can get resolved.

The one bright spot, though, is that out of Sumy yesterday, amongst those 5,000 that officials said were able to get out, was more than 700 foreign students. I was just at a train station here in Lviv. And I can tell you they have arrived. SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCLEAN: So they managed to get out through the corridor, to another city in Ukraine, and then from there they got directly on a train. This took -- the whole process took more than 24 hours. They're, obviously, exhausted.

The Indian students, which was the majority of them, got on another train bound for Poland. I interviewed a group of Nigerian students. They were taking buses to Hungary.

And the stories that they told were incredible.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCLEAN: I mean they described sheltering in these basements in their university and just hoping and praying. They said that the explosions were so loud that they actually thought at one point that their building was hit because, you know, you couldn't just hear them, you could feel them.

SCIUTTO: Yes, listen, this is a country that has a lot of people from all around the world, and they've been fleeing the war as well.

I do want to ask you about another story today, and that is warnings from some Ukrainian officials about the situation at Chernobyl, the nuclear plant, about dangers there, although I understand the IAEA is not explicitly concerned right now.

MCLEAN: Yes. So, obviously, the Chernobyl nuclear plant still has a remarkable amount of nuclear waste that is sitting there. And so there are employees that work there that monitor that situation. There are monitoring systems in place as well.

So this all started with the foreign minister of Ukraine, Dmytro Kuleba, who said that there was a loss of a power supply that helped cool some of those areas. And there is a generator that goes on that will last for 48 hours. Beyond that, it's not really clear what happened.

SCIUTTO: Right.

MCLEAN: But as you said, the International Atomic Energy Agency is saying that -- that quote, there is no critical impact to safety at this point. So, obviously, that's good news. But we'll wait and see for more information.

SCIUTTO: Sure. And, of course, shows you the danger of waging war around Ukraine's many nuclear power plants. And we saw that close call last week.

Scott McLean, thanks so much.

MCLEAN: You bet.

SCIUTTO: Well, right now, Vice President Kamala Harris, she is on her way to Poland, just across the border from here in Lviv, under a cloud of uncertainty. This after the U.S. rejected Poland's proposal to transfer its MiG-29 -- this is an old Soviet version of a fighter jet -- to the United States for its then delivery in turn to Ukraine. It's a move the Pentagon called not tenable at this stage.

All this as the U.S. is now moving to protect NATO allies from potential Russian threats going forward by sending two patriot missile batteries to Poland to counter such a threat. It shows the level of concern, particularly in the eastern-facing NATO allies, those closest to Russia.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now with more.

So, Barbara, first, on this plan or purported plan for some time to get these jets to Ukraine, perhaps via a U.S. military base in Germany, I mean the first question is, how critical at this point are these jets, and what happened to this deal?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the armed forces of Ukraine, they consider it very critical. They want to get their hands on more fighter jets. And, of course, they've been trained to use the MiG-29. So, if there was a way to make it work, it would be a practical solution for them.

The problem is the practicality of it. Right now the U.S. position is, it is up to Poland to work with Ukraine very much on how to exactly make this happen. As you say, Jim, late last night, the Biden administration rejected the idea of taking the planes on to Ramstein Air Base in Germany, essentially a U.S. military base, and then transferring them into Ukraine from there because the concern, of course, is that it could be perceived as NATO, the U.S. taking an overt action to get involved in the war.

[09:10:01]

Something the Biden administration says it will not do. It will respond to NATO's attacked, but it wouldn't take a step into the war. And the feeling is having any of those planes take off from a U.S. air base in Germany would signal a U.S. step in that direction.

So, Kamala Harris in Poland, going to talk to the Poles about it, trying to see if there's a way around it, if this idea even could be made to work.

SCIUTTO: And just quickly, Barbara, the patriot missiles, what are they put in place to protect against specifically?

STARR: Well, those are missile batteries -- anti-missile batteries that would shoot down incoming ballistic missiles. Of course the U.S. has used them successfully for many years around the world. The concern is, eastern Poland, NATO's flank, Russia's military forces very close in the air and with the more than 600 missiles, more like 60, 70, we're told, being fired by the Russians, all that air space very tight. Very much concern that there could be Russian weapons straying into NATO air space. Look for possibly more air defense. Look for more U.S. troops potentially, nothing set yet, to go to eastern Europe, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and the U.S. never particularly complimentary about targeting accuracy from Russian military forces.

Barbara Starr, thanks very much.

STARR: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Joining me now, retired Air Force General Philip Breedlove. He is the former NATO supreme allied commander for Europe. Knows the security situation here and certainly the threat from Russia.

General Breedlove, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

I want to ask you, at first, about what this attempted deal to get Polish fighter jets into Ukraine tells us about sensitivities here because it strikes me what's going on here is that NATO and the U.S. are trying to figure out what the line is in terms of where Russia makes a judgment that they are at war with NATO, right, here? I mean there's already a whole host of deadly weapons coming into this country from the west that is killing and destroying Russian forces and equipment.

Do you think that sending these jets in would potentially cross such a line?

GEN. PHILIP BREEDLOVE (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER EUROPE: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on the program this morning.

And this is a -- this is a tough problem. You've heard and have heard and reported correctly that there's concerns from all sides about not stepping over a line. I mean we are deterred in that manner. And so I think that the important thing is that nations continue to talk and try to come to an appropriate resolution because it's clear that the Ukrainian air force could use these aircraft.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You have been among some current and former -- well, former military leaders in the U.S. who have advocated for, and to be clear, a limited no-fly zone over Ukraine. You describe it as one that would specifically be humanitarian in nature, protect civilians, et cetera. That has the same concern, right, that you -- you would put NATO, U.S. assets in the air potentially in conflict with Russian assets, whether it be missiles or Russian aircraft.

How would a -- even a limited no-fly zone not create the danger of that happening, that you have U.S. or -- and a Russian fighter jet nose to nose over the skies of Ukraine?

BREEDLOVE: Well, we have to be intellectually honest here. And I think we have. And that is that there is not a no risk way forward here. And I think that what we're trying to do is keep alive a conversation on how to help the Ukrainian people.

You heard the deputy mayor of Mariupol this morning, about how the exits from his city are continually taken advantage of and attacked by the Russians. And you're own reporting in the previous few minutes pointed out that there are some routes that are working, but a lot of routes the Russians take advantage of these people in the open and they attack these humanitarian corridors.

And so I do not believe that we need to stop thinking about how to correct that. How to affect that. So, we are putting forward ideas that would be less bellicose, in a more limited manner, that would possibly help the people.

And let me just say, I think that if we believe that there is a no risk way forward to the end of this war, I don't think that's right thinking. Even in what's happening today, if Mr. Putin continues to have problems, there will be risks.

SCIUTTO: One thing we are seeing now because of a concern among particularly eastern-facing NATO allies is the further movement of both troops and equipment to those countries, to the Baltics, this patriot missile battery to Poland, because they're worried that Russia may threaten them next.

[09:15:07]

Do you see a sufficient movement of resources and materiel east to counter a new Russian threat?

BREEDLOVE: First of all, let me applaud the efforts of the United States and other nations to do this. I think it's right and appropriate. We do need to send a clear message that these are lines you shouldn't cross. I believe that we should be doing some of that in Ukraine as well.

But let's say that what is happening is appropriate and it needs to continue. I think all the allies need to look at those things that Mr. Putin is doing in Ukraine and we should be better prepared to make sure it doesn't happen in NATO.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we're in a whole new world. I think we have to become more and more conscious of that.

General Philip Breedlove, thanks so much for joining us.

BREEDLOVE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Erica, some sobering warnings to hear. We're hearing them every day.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. And it -- but important to keep hearing them, right, and to keep reminding ourselves, as you point out, of where we are in the world today, which is a lot different than I think a lot of folks expected even just a couple of weeks ago.

Well, just ahead, we are seeing more and more changes by the day when it comes to businesses dealing with Russia. Starbucks, McDonald's, Coke, among the latest brands to pull out of that country. Can this economic onslaught, though, actually sway Vladimir Putin? Plus, gas prices continue to soar here in the U.S. as President Biden

announces an end to all Russian energy imports. A new poll, though, shows most Americans think it was the right call and they're OK with paying more at the pump.

Plus, as we see the terror of the attack on Ukraine, there are also incredible signs of resilience and of hope. Watch as the Kyiv Classic Symphony Orchestra performs in the city's central square.

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[09:21:36]

HILL: House lawmakers are expected to vote today on a massive spending bill that includes more than $13 billion in military and humanitarian aid for Ukraine. That sweeping $1.5 trillion bill also includes more than $15 billion in Covid relief funds.

Now, to avert a shutdown, the bill must pass both the House and Senate before Friday when government funding expires.

Also today, the House moving forward with a vote on legislation that would review Russia's status in the World Trade Organization, reauthorize the Magnitsky sanctions law and ban Russian energy imports.

Beer giant Heineken is the latest major company to halt operations in Russian in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. McDonald's, Starbucks and Coca-Cola also recently suspending business in Russia.

Joining mw now, CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

So, Christine, as we see this list of companies growing, they're suspending operations, or investments depending on the way things are structured and worded.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

HILL: There's also been a lot of social pressure on these companies.

ROMANS: There really has. And you look at -- you look at McDonald's, for example. McDonald's, which first went into Moscow in 1990, to huge, long lines. And it was a sign of Russia coming to the west, the end of the old Soviet empire, and progress for Russian citizens. They're closing 847 McDonald's stores in Russia. They are going to keep paying the people there, but you will no longer be able to get a Big Mac in Russia.

And it's so symbolic, isn't it, about the course of the history of this country and where Putin has taken it, basically rewinding.

So many other companies as well, Starbucks, Coca-Cola, these are the last -- in the last couple of days. You mentioned Heineken overnight. PepsiCo, it gets about 4 percent of its revenue in Russia, although it is going to keep a footprint there. It's going to keep essential products like baby formula, milk and baby food.

Pepsi, is so interesting, when you look through the vault. It has been operating for 60 years, you know, all the way back to former Soviet times. And back then, the Soviet Union didn't have any money. So, they would actually trade shipments of Pepsi for things like warships and Stoli vodka. I'm not kidding.

But this is going backwards for Russia.

HILL: Right.

ROMANS: What Putin has done with his -- with his tanks and his missiles is put his country backward. It's clearly not, you know, what the Ukrainian people are feeling. They are feeling actual aggression, actual bombs. But this is definitely a living -- a standard of living that will be declining dramatically for Russian citizens. Long lines for the ATMs, capital controls on their money. There are things they're not going to be able to import. There are shipping companies who won't even take orders to ship things there. You can't use your Apple Pay on the subway anymore in Moscow. So, Russian citizens are feeling what corporate America and the corporate world is handing out here.

HILL: Now the question is, of course, as they're feeling it, does that eventually have an impact on Vladimir Putin, his popularity, his policies? That's what we have to wait and see, right?

ROMANS: Right.

HILL: We'll see how this all plays out.

Christine, thank you.

Well, this morning, the Kremlin is accusing the U.S. of declaring an economic war on Russia. Not just those measures. But this came after President Biden announced, of course, that ban on all Russian energy imports to the U.S., Jim.

SCIUTTO: Now, the president acknowledged the ban would cost American families particularly at the gas pump. According to AAA, the average price for gas in the U.S. just hit a new high of $4.25 a gallon.

Joining us now to discuss how all this may work out, Randy Ollenberger, managing director for BMO Capital Markets.

[09:25:05]

Good to have you on, Randy.

And I wonder, you have a few things going on here. I mean the U.S., a relatively small buyer of Russian oil. But you also have concerns about stability in Europe, what European countries do next.

Where do you see the oil market going from here? It's already priced in a lot of instability. Do you expect it to continue to go up?

RANDY OLLENBERGER, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BMO CAPITAL MARKETS: Yes, we're seen a lot of volatility. Obviously, a lot of moving parts here, discussions with Venezuela, discussions with Iran, and, of course, what's happening with Russia.

I think we still have a bit of a biased to the upside with oil prices here until we get some further (INAUDIBLE) what's going to happen with additional sanctions. Right now we're seeing a lot of the self- sanctioning by various buyers around the world who are just reluctant to buy Russian oil, either because of these social concerns or simply because of the troubles around the -- you have the SWIFT banking part of it. So we are seeing a tighter wheel market and I think that suggests the bias to the upside here in the short-term.

HILL: When we look at where we stand, "The Wall Street Journal" reporting that both Saudi and the UAE have declined to take calls with President Biden in recent days. Does that concern you as we look at both the short-term and the long-term potentially global impact here of these moves?

OLLENBERGER: You know, I think the Saudis have said pretty consistently that they think the market is well supplied. So, OPEC is still actually predicting an inventory build in the first quarter. So they're reluctant to put too much incremental oil in the market. And, of course, you know, if they decided to increase production by say a million barrels a day today, we wouldn't see that in the market for another 30, 45 days. And so they're looking forward here and there's still just too much uncertainty I think in their minds.

But, you know, as you point out, the longer we see these high prices here, the more likely we're starting to see some demand destruction. And I think OPEC will start to get worried about that as well.

SCIUTTO: I mean isn't that kind of a silly position, right? I mean Russia's one of the top three oil producers in the world. You have a dynamic here where Russia's being cut off from the world economy. And if -- it's not that everybody's going to stop buying Russian oil, but it looks like a lot of countries will.

Saudi Arabia is a U.S. ally. I mean why wouldn't it be obvious that the helpful thing to do here would be to add production to the market? I mean do you buy the Saudi position?

OLLENBERGER: Well, you know, our numbers would suggest we are going to actually see some inventory draws down given what's unfolding. So I don't necessarily buy the Saudi position. But I mean they're certainly being cautious given what's happened in 2020 with the collapse in oil prices. And, you know, they've seen this back in 2008. They've seen this in 1999, when we've had collapses in oil prices by misjudging the market. So I think they're being a little bit cautious.

But I suspect there's probably some, you know, behind the scenes political motivations for what they're doing as well.

HILL: I mean it would seem, right? Look, so much of this does involve politics on a daily basis, even when we're not dealing with a Russian invasion of Ukraine. But all of that is now amplified and at a different level. So, yes, there could be those political considerations. Do you think, though, there's a chance that given the volatility that we see and what's happening in Europe, could that -- could those politics actually swing things the other way?

OLLENBERGER: You know, I do think the Saudis will get concerned about demand destruction (ph), as I mentioned. You know, if you look at, you know, energy, as a percentage of disposable income in the United States for right now, we're probably getting up to about 4.5 percent. So we're not probably too far off of where we were back the last time we had $140 oil prices in 2008, which is around 5 percent. So, we will start to see some lower levels of demand. Demand destruction. And, you know, I think OPEC will be concerned about the lasting impacts of that. And so they probably will act. They will have another meeting here at the end of the month. And I suspect they'll indicate they're watching it very closely and ready to put more barrels on the market if needed.

HILL: Randy Ollenberger, good to have you with us this morning. Thank you.

OLLENBERGER: Thank you.

HILL: Just ahead, the parents of a former U.S. Marine held in Russia for more than two years speak with President Biden after staking out his motorcade. Details on their call with the president, next.

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