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Rising Numbers Of Evacuees Fleeing Ukraine; Bombardment Of Maternity & Children's Hospital In Mariupol, Ukraine; 1,300 Civilians Killed In Ukraine Since Russian Invasion; Pentagon's Update On War; U.S. Marines To Join NATO "Cold Response" Drills; Stock Market Surges As Price Of Oil Falls; Interview With John Kirby, Pentagon Press Secretary; Interview With Rabbi Yaakov Bleich, Chief Rabbi Of Kyiv And Ukraine. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 09, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:30:00]

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, the fighting continues here in Ukraine as a 12-hour evacuation ceasefire for some cities has come to an end. The United Nations now reports that more than 2.1 million people have fled Ukraine since the start of the invasion by Russia. An extraordinary number in an extraordinary short amount of time. Among are the sick and the elderly, forced to face the harsh conditions of a war zone in order to escape. CNN's Clarissa Ward spoke to several people in Kyiv escaping.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): These residents of a nursing home were among the last to be evacuated from Irpin. They have been sitting here now for hours. Confused and disorientated, many don't know where they are going. Volunteers gently guides these women back to wait for the next bus. Valentina tells us, she is frightened and freezing after days of endless shelling and no heat.

I want to lie down, she says. Please, help me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: It is devastating. Joining me now is Rabbi Yaakov Bleich, Chief Rabbi of Ukraine. He's in Poland assisting with the evacuation efforts. Rabbi, thanks for joining us.

First of all, I wanted to get your reaction to what President Zelenskyy is describing as a Russian airstrike on a Ukrainian hospital this morning, a maternity hospital -- maternity center and a pediatric ward. When you see this, it's just -- it is unbelievable.

RABBI YAAKOV BLEICH, CHIEF RABBI OF KYIV AND UKRAINE: You know, a week ago or two weeks ago, it would have been unbelievable. But I think -- at this time, I think the world should have their eyes open and understand that this is a war not against an army. I've said this, and I'll say it again, it's a war against the people. It's not even ironic. It's cynical that Putin said that he's coming to save the Russian people from the Ukrainians fascists when indeed he's been bombing Russian cities and Russians speaking cities and just wiping them off the face of the earth. This is -- it's unbelievable.

[03:35:00]

However, once he began with this mass murder, I would say, of just civilians which that's what it is. It's just bombing from the ground, you know, from the Earth, from up in the, you know, the air into the ground, bombing anything and everything, any residential building. So, it doesn't even shock that he bombed, you know, hospitals and orphanages, and children's home. It's just anything and everything. It's a war against everyone to wipe out everyone until he's just trying to bring Ukraine, you know, down to its knees to give in, and that's what it is. He's been doing to Kharkiv and he's done it in cities around Kyiv as well, including Bryanka, Irpin, Bucha that -- he's just wiping out those cities. And he's -- now, he's doing it in the big cities as well and that's what he's done in Mariupol. Actually, on the border today --

COOPER: Here in Poland --

BLEICH: -- I met some --

COOPER: Yes, go ahead.

BLEICH: Yes, in Poland I met some refugees from Mariupol. They said that nobody come into the city or out of the city for the last few days already. And they think the city is just going to be wiped out. That's what they're thinking.

COOPER: Which we've seen in a city, like, Grosne in the 1995-1996, we've seen in Aleppo. We've seen Russia do that in Syria. You're assisting refugees, people fleeing, women and children fleeing from the Ukrainian in Poland. What kind of challenges are they facing once, you know, we've seen the scenes at the border, we've seen a lot of people, of -- you know, good faith people handing out sim cards, handing out food and water, supplies, people offering places to stay, what happens to them after they leave the border? What is that like? What kind of challenges do they face?

BLEICH: So, my -- the main thing that I've been doing, actually, was helping them evacuate from Ukraine. So, the main work that I've been doing the last two weeks, basically, is just bussing people from different cities under fire. Putting Kyiv, Cherkasy, Uman, Vasylkiv. Today, we've got busses from Nizhyn and from other places. Just getting them to a border and, you know, helping them to leave the country.

So, that's why -- it's crazy, the number -- the millions of refugees in just, you know, two weeks that have run away. Now, today, just to be able to see, you know, see the other side of the picture, so, I -- today, I spent some time in Poland at the borders. In Poland I met -- it was unbelievable thing. Number one, I asked the people, do you want to go back to Ukraine? These are people who've ran away from their homes, under duress, under stressed, panicked. Many of them with one single shopping bag of belongings. And almost every single one that I asked said, yes, we want to go back home. We want to go back home. Which is something that's really, really shows their attachment and that's -- they're only running because of the danger.

But the challenge -- I think the greatest challenge is not the evacuation. The greatest challenge is not coming from Poland. The greatest challenge is exactly what you asked. What's next? And I've been working with other Jewish relief organizations and about the Jewish community it as well. Because we're evacuating the Jewish communities and the, you know, general population, obviously. All our busses have whoever comes to any synagogue gets on the bus and goes, no matter who they are and what they are.

But then when they come over, some different organizations are dealing with other people. You know, churches are taking people in. And the synagogues and the Jewish communities are taking and trying to just help people get somewhere.

But then the question is, how do you rebuild your life? What do you -- what resources do you have to rebuild your life? And what can you do? I think that that's the greatest challenge. And that's something that has to, you know, begun to work on immediately because if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. I mean, this is something that, you know, really nobody expected even this amount of refugee.

I must say that Poland has been unbelievable. They've taken over a million refugees. And to see the outpouring of food and clothing and help that's given to the refugees. And the places that have been set up, the warming centers with beds and people to help you and volunteers. It really, really warms your heart. At the same time, it breaks your heart to see so many people having to run away from their homes.

COOPER: Yes. Well, it certainly did --

BLEICH: You know, for a senseless war. Again, this is not a war that anyone can explain logically why it's happened. It's senseless.

COOPER: Yes. Rabbi Bleich, appreciate your time.

Let's go to the Pentagon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We are grateful for the superb support and cooperation of our Polish allies who continue to host thousands of our troops. And are welcoming more, as I said, more than one million Ukrainian refugees. Polish generosity is clearly on display for the whole world to see.

But at this time, we believe the provision of additional fighter aircraft provides little increased capabilities at high risk. We also believe that there are alternative options that are much better suited to support the Ukrainian military in their fight against Russia. And we will continue to pursue the options. [03:40:00]

Again, we thank Poland for their incredible level of support and cooperation. Poland is a valued ally and a very good friend. We look forward to exploring ways to deepen that partnership in this critical moment.

We also know, the Ukrainian Armed Forces, as well as average Ukrainian citizens are defending their country with great skill and bravery. We will continue to look for ways to help them do that knowing full well that that effort is in no way made more effective or less harmful to the Ukrainian people by steps we take or decisions we make which lead to an escalation of that conflict.

I might add that just before coming out here, the secretary wrapped up a phone call with the Ukrainian Defense Minister, Minister Reznikov, as one of his ongoing series of calls with counterparts. We'll have a more detailed read out of that call later. The call really just concluded so I don't have much context to provide for you there.

Now, on another note, approximately 3,000 U.S. marines will join some 30,000 military forces from 27 NATO ally and partner nations for the Norwegian led exercise, "Cold Response," which kicks off Monday, the 14th of March. This is the nineth iteration of this multi domain, extreme cold weather exercise. Designed to enhance our collective military capabilities in the demanding Arctic environment. This exercise will emphasis and test critical activities ranging from the reception of reinforcements and interoperable command and control to combined joint operations in a highly intense combat environment.

In total, approximately 220 aircraft and more than 50 ships will take part in the exercise. U.S. forces begin training in Norway in December as U.S. marine units conducted cold weather training and planning in the lead up to this exercise. Two marine expeditionary force will be the largest American military unit participating this year. Some 200 military vehicles attack and assault support aircraft and equipment departed Camp Lejeune, North Carolina in January as part of that unit's participation. And again, we look forward to a terrific exercise, "Cold Responses". And the exercise will be running through April 1st.

And with that, we'll get to questions. Bob?

BOB: Thank you, John. With the regard to the Polish proposal on the MiG transfers, would it be correct to say that you just closed the door on this transfer whether it's done through the United States or through any other NATO country? And secondly, separately but related, you referenced alternative options that you're looking at. Can you explain what that is?

KIRBY: Sure. Alternative options are working with other allies and partner nations around the world who may have additional air defense capabilities and systems at their disposal who might be willing to provide them to Ukraine. And so, we're having discussions with many countries right now about some of those capabilities, surface air missiles for instance, that the Ukrainians are more trained and more equipped to operate.

So, it could include additional man pads as well and certainly antitank -- antiarmor, excuse me, system. So, we're going to continue to talk to the Ukrainians about their need and we're going to continue to talk to allies and partners about how to best fill those needs. But it's our assessment, right now, for all the reasons that I gave you that we don't believe additional aircraft is the most effective answer to meeting those needs in the conflict.

Now look, Sovereign nations can decide for themselves what they want to do. But this idea, the proposal of transferring these jets to our custody them -- for them transferring to Ukraine, that is something that we are not going to explore right now.

Jen?

JEN: Are you talking about providing S300 missile defense systems?

KIRBY: I'm not -- I'd rather stay away from the actual systems themselves, Jen. We're going to continue to look at a broad swath of capabilities that the Ukrainians could use effectively. Some of them they already are and maybe they need replacements. And -- but I'm not going to get into individual systems.

JEN: And what's the difference in providing javelins and stingers to the Ukrainians versus MiGs or fighter jets? Why is that more provocative -- from an intelligence perspective, why is that seen as more provocative? It seems like you're splitting hairs there.

KIRBY: No, there's no splitting hairs, Jen. I think -- we take seriously, the intelligence community's assessments and their views based on the information that they have available to them.

[03:45:00]

And it's their assessment. One in which the Secretary concurs that the transfer of combat aircraft, right now, could be mistaken by Mr. Putin and the Russians as an escalatory step. And as I said at the very end of my opening statement, we need to be careful about every decision we make, that we aren't making the potential for escalation worse. Because that's not only not good for NATO and it's not only not good for the United States and our national security, should this conflict escalate even further. But it's certainly not going be good for the Ukrainian people to have what is already a destructive and terrible war. Get even more destructive and terrible given the fact that Mr. Putin has other capabilities at his disposal.

Faddy (ph)?

FADDY: Thank you, John. I have two questions. So, the first one is on this whole issue of MiG-29. As you know this -- the prospect of delivering MiG-29s to the Ukrainians was raised by President Zelenskyy and based on the assessment that you just told us, this is not the most effective way. Are the Ukrainians now onboard with this assessment or they're still insisting -- have you been in communication with the Ukrainians on the issue exactly -- KIRBY: Well, I just told you that Secretary just -- has finished up a

call with Minister Reznikov. I don't have a read out for you now. Literally was finishing up as I was walking here to the podium. So, we'll have read out for you. I doubt, seriously, that that read out is going to ascribe the sentiments of the Ukrainians. That's for them to speak to. And I will -- obviously, we defer to the Ukrainian government to speak to this on their own.

FADDY: And on this issue of military biological labs in Ukraine that the Russians keep raising.

KIRBY: Yes.

FADDY: Can you, basically, explain to us what type of relationship, if any there was, between the Pentagon and the Ukrainian side on any biological labs. When was the last cooperation and what do you have to say about these Russian accusations?

KIRBY: The Russian accusations are absurd. They're laughable. And, you know, in the words of my Irish-Catholic grandfather, a bunch of malarky. There's nothing to it. It's classic Russian propaganda. And I wouldn't -- if I were you, I wouldn't give it a drop of ink worth paying attention to.

FADDY: Yes, but can you explain --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: All right. John Kirby there, Spokesman at the Pentagon giving update. Saying, now, officially the Pentagon does not support this transfer of jets to Ukraine via Poland. Let's bring in now CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr and retired Brigadier Army General Mark Kimmitt.

Barbara, first to you, not only did Admiral Kirby say that they don't support this transfer. He said that transferring these MiG-29s little increased capabilities at high risk. He doesn't think fighter jets are really what the Ukrainians need now any way.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That appears to be the military analysis this afternoon. One, that Ukraine still has several squadrons of jets available to it. Not clear how much they are able to fly in this contested environment they operate in with the Russians. But they have the air power and that the U.S. doesn't feel that Ukraine is going to get a significant advance in its military capability from getting more aircraft.

Kirby went on to say what the Pentagon's been saying for several days that they're still talking to allies and other partners about additional air defense systems because that's really, maybe, the challenge here. Trying to poke a hole in Russia's air defense umbrella, if you will, over Ukraine. Russia has the ability to, basically, launch missiles and strike at any point in Ukraine that it chooses to. And that's going to be the problem because they can operative in that space, launching missiles and the Ukrainians have to be able to challenge them. Have to be able to shoot those missiles down.

But the political risk was there as well. The real concern by the Pentagon led to -- I think, it's fair to say by Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin that this would be a military move seen as escalatory, potentially by Vladimir Putin. It would draw the U.S. potentially into a direct conflict which is the Biden Administration, of course, is trying so hard to stay out of. No U.S. involvement, direct involvement in the war in the concern if those jets came out of a U.S. base in Germany, which was the idea. Putin would only see it one way.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: General, I mean, you just heard from John Kirby they're basing that on intelligence assessments their logic right now. What did you hear?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, the fact that they're going to be more air defense in tells me that they still believe that the Russian air threat is significant.

[03:50:00]

But I think it's important to understand, and ask the question, why aren't the Ukrainians flying their jets? Because they've got such target rich environments, a 40-mile convoy, ballistic missile sites, artillery sites. What that tells me is that -- the concern is that the Russians have a pretty robust air defense system inside of Ukraine right now and they're afraid of those aircraft getting shot down.

So, when John Kirby says, for little value in higher risk, it may not only be the escalatory risk but it maybe the fact that the Russians may have the S-400 in there and they could shoot those aircraft down pretty quick. So, I think we're missing the story of why the Ukrainian jets aren't flying in the first place.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I appreciate you bringing that up. We've wondered that as well. Thank you for all that context. Barbara Starr, Retired Brigadier Army General Mark Kimmitt, thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. Markets are up sharply in the final minutes of trading. They're responding to oil prices that plunged today. We'll look into that next.

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[03:55:00]

The U.S. gas prices soared today to a new record of $4.25 per gallon. But stocks, they surged, too.

CAMEROTA: Investors seem to be celebrating a drop in crude oil prices. CNN's Matt Egan joins us now. Matt, how did oil prices come down and what does that mean for all of us?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: It feels like there's some glimmers of hope in this energy crisis. Brent Crude, the world benchmark closed down by 13 percent to $111 a barrel. We haven't seen a one-day decline like that in almost two years, since April 2020.Now, that means it's down by 20 percent from Sunday night. You could see that peak on the chart, down by 20 percent when it nearly hit $140. And that's because there are signs that after months of sitting on the sidelines, OPEC may finally, may finally, be coming to the rescue here.

The UAE's Ambassador to the United States told CNN's Becky Anderson, that the UAE, an oil-rich country, favors increasing oil production and they want the rest of OPEC to do the same thing. Now, that would be a really big deal because OPEC is really the only game in town. It's the only group that has the firepower to quickly add back supply at a time when supply is really needed.

Now, I'm not saying everything is rosy right now, hardly. I mean, Brent oil prices are still up by 15 percent since before Russia invaded Ukraine. Gasoline prices are high, and they're going higher the national average at $4.25 a gallon, that is a record, up by 60 cents -- six-zero in one week. I mean, there are years that go by when you don't see a move like that, and this happened in the last week.

But investors are breathing a sigh of relief because oil prices have stopped going straight up. They've actually started to come down. U.S. stocks (INAUDIBLE) closed the day sharply higher. The Dow up 640 points, just under two percent. That is a big move after four straight days of losses. And it is a sign that investors are hopeful that maybe the U.S. economy can avoid an energy driven recession here.

BLACKWELL: No commitment yet though from OPEC?

EGAN: Exactly.

BLACKWELL: No commitment.

EGAN: Just a signal.

BLACKWELL: Just a hope. All right.

CAMEROTA: Matt Egan, thank you for explaining all that.

EGAN: Thank you, guys.

BLACKWELL: "The Lead with Jake Tapper" starts after a short break.

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