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Biden to Speak with Turkish President About War in Ukraine; House Approves Billions for Ukraine in Sweeping Spending Bill; Ukrainian Military Claim Defeat of Russian Tank Regiment Near Kyiv. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 10, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Lviv, Ukraine.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill in New York.

This hour, President Biden will speak to the president of Turkey about the war in Ukraine as Vice President Kamala Harris meets with officials and refugees in Poland. She announced this morning the U.S. delivered patriot missiles batteries to the region.

SCIUTTO: The defense they had been requesting.

Talks, however, between Russia and Ukraine's top diplomats have really made no progress. Right now, Russian forces still bombarding the already devastated southern city of Mariupol. Officials say that Putin's military is dropping bombs on a humanitarian corridor meant for safe civilian evacuation. It's not the first time this has happened.

In the northeast part of the capital, Kyiv, Russia's aggression met with heavy Ukrainian resistance. This new video shows Russian tanks destroy, it appears struck by missiles, on fire after the Ukrainian military carried out an attack on that column.

This morning, we are also seeing gut-wrenching images, showing the aftermath of a Russian airstrike on a maternity hospital in Mariupol.

CNN's John Harwood is live at the White House this morning, CNN's Matthew Chance in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.

Let's begin though at the White House, where President Biden preparing to hold a call now with the Turkish president.

John, a short time ago, I spoke with State Department Spokesman Ned Price. I asked him about how Vice President Kamala Harris described the attacks we've seen in Ukraine. I want to play that exchange for you and get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Atrocities of unimaginable proportions, that's the description the vice president had for Russia's activities here in Ukraine. Are those war crimes?

NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Well, lamentably, it's an apt description, because we have seen Russian ammunition, Russian missiles, Russian rockets strike civilian areas just yesterday.

If we determine that war crimes have been committed, we will hold anyone and everyone responsible, accountable for that. That includes political leadership but it also includes those closer to the ground in Ukraine who may have been responsible for any of these atrocities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: It seems like the White House walking right up to the line there to calling these war crimes, but not officially declaring them war crimes. Do you know why that is and is that part of the discussion in this call for Biden this hour?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I would expect the behavior of Russian forces would be part of the discussion with President Erdogan. In terms of the war crimes description, I think what we've seen pretty consistently from the administration is trying to make the distinction between what those of us as journalists, what ordinary people on the ground can make a common sense judgment and call a war crime with the demands of having to prove that, should it come to that, at The Hague at some point. There are evidentiary requirements and determinations of intent, what was an accident, what was on purpose. We can pretty much see what's going on and make our own judgments about what the Russians are doing, but they're trying to draw that distinction.

And in terms of the rest of the phone call with President Erdogan, he's in a unique position. He's a NATO member, has not subjected Russia to sanctions, Turkey has not individually, and President Erdogan has something of a potential interlocutor. He has offered himself as mediator. And when we've got these potential signals of a glimmer of daylight for negotiations, as you indicated, it hasn't been realized at all in the talks between Ukraine and Russia, but there have been some suggestions that, for example, President Zelenskyy said he is cool to the idea of Ukraine joining NATO. That is something that potentially creates some space for discussions of neutrality for Ukraine that might allow President Putin to climb down. We're a long way from that happening, but President Biden and the U.S. administration are going to explore every possibility.

SCIUTTO: Yes, particularly for a Russian leader who denies that Ukraine is an independent country. We'll see what the potential climb- downs are. John Harwood at the White House, thanks so much.

CNN Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance, he is in the capital, Kyiv. Matthew, these talks, highest level since the start of the hostilities and part of the discussion are these humanitarian corridors.

[10:05:05]

Was there any progress on establishing more of those and assuring, frankly, that Russia abides by, you know, protecting those humanitarian corridors, which they haven't done in many cases?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, that was the kind of assurance and that was the kind of guarantee that the Ukrainian delegation, led by the foreign minister, were going into these talks with Sergey Lavrov, the Russian counterpart, the Russian foreign minister, to try and get. But the impression that was given to me by a senior Ukrainian official who had knowledge of these talks was that Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, was only there to listen. He wasn't empowered to sort of make the kind of concessions or decisions that you would have expected someone at that level to come to these high-level negotiations to make.

And so the short answer is no. The talks broke up after about an hour- and-a-half and there was no agreement on the future negotiations, there was no agreement on a cease-fire and, crucially, no agreement on those humanitarian corridors. And they are crucial because we've got this video that's just come into us within the past few minutes or so from the city of Mariupol, in the south of the country, the southeast of the country, which has been the scene of some of the heaviest fighting and shelling since this conflict began. Terrible scenes in the maternity hospital, of course, that being attacked, and now there are scenes of other locations inside the city, which have also been bombed very hard as well from missile strikes and airstrikes from Russian forces as they try to take that city.

It's a desperate need for the people inside that city to get a humanitarian corridor out of there. So far, they've been unable, Jim, to secure that.

SCIUTTO: Yes, more than 700 Russian missiles fired at Ukraine since the start of the hostilities, Matthew Chance, thanks so much.

HILL: Joining us now, Ukrainian Member of Parliament Kira Rudik. It's good to have you back with us this morning.

As we look at the situation there on the ground, I know you've called repeatedly for a no-fly zone, which pretty clearly, at that point, isn't happening. I was struck by comments from your foreign minister this morning who said that Lavrov was pretty clear that Russia will continue their aggression until we surrender.

Earlier today, Bill Taylor, former ambassador to Ukraine, said on CNN, he thinks China could maybe be the key here to actually getting Russia to a point, Vladimir Putin, frankly, to a point of negotiation. Do you think China could help?

KIRA RUDIK, UKRAINIAN MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Hello, thank you for having me. No, I do not believe any other country would be able to push Putin to keep his word. There is -- he was very adamant about his plans to rebuild Russian empire, to take Ukraine, to take Poland and Lithuania. And, today, what we heard from Lavrov was just the confirmation of every single piece. Russia was basically supported by China. China never made a statement on condemning its actions or on condemning Putin and his actions. So, it's another illusion that the western world is living in right now, hoping that, for some reason, China will step in and ask Putin to stop the war in Ukraine. I do not believe this is happening.

The thing that could stop Putin is the direct force. We have seen, we have witnessed this over the last eight years while there was war on the east of our country. And right now, when we see that Putin cannot even keep his smallest word on letting out the humanitarian convoys, what kind of negotiations are expected from Ukraine or from our allies? We are being very clear. He cannot keep his word in a very minor point and he will never keep his word in a larger picture.

So, the thing that we say that we need and we are 100 percent sure that it will help us to fight him back and push him back where he came from is the no-fly zone. Unfortunately, the NATO alliance are concerned that it will drag them into the larger scale war but we are over at the larger scale war, 2 million of refugees in Europe, the nuclear threat because Putin continues shelling the nuclear plant in the Ukraine, which brings up a tremendous threat to the whole world, to all the other countries of what's going to happen if he succeeds, humanitarian catastrophe in Ukraine, (INAUDIBLE) part of the whole world and its problems.

So, that's why I really do hope in my heart that NATO will reconsider the no-fly zone idea and will be able to provide us the variety of support that will soon help us to fight --

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SCIUTTO: Okay. Excuse me for interrupting. Excuse me for interrupting. To enforce a no-fly zone, NATO jets would have to be willing to shoot down Russian jets, to shoot at Russian surface-to-air missile positions. Are you asking the U.S. and NATO to formally enter this war?

RUDIK: I am asking for a support by providing Ukraine with jets that we can fight a war ourselves. However, this is also not happening. And this is what is so concerning for us right now, that not only the official no-fly zone is not implemented, but the half-day (ph) steps, like the jets or additional air force protection is not happening either. That's not in Ukraine's problem only anymore. This is a world's global problem. And we are asking to figure out the ways how we can get the protection we need without NATO stepping away from its principles and concerns.

SCIUTTO: Kira Rudik, we appreciate you joining the program again.

RUDIK: Thank you so much for having me and glory to Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, Congress is moving to send nearly $14 billion in aid here to Ukraine, also to take additional steps sanctioning Russia. We're going to be joined by Democratic Senator Ben Cardin, next. HILL: Plus, the Ukrainian military claims it destroyed a Russian convoy near Kyiv. You can see the intense artillery fire coming in this video. We're going to take a look at what this says about Russia's strategy and missteps.

Also, so many Ukrainians flee Russian bombs are at this moment heading to cities, like Poltava, in the center of the country. So, will they inevitably have to feel again? We're going to speak with one of the Ukrainians currently sheltering there.

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SCIUTTO: Overnight on Capitol Hill, House lawmakers passed two bills with major implications for the situation, the war here in Ukraine. First, the sweeping government funding bill with more than $13 billion in aid to Ukraine, that includes $6.5 billion to send U.S. troops to the region as well as further military equipment to Ukraine, plus $4 billion in humanitarian aid. The other bill would ban Russian energy imports and revisit Russia's role in the World Trade Organizations, a number of steps.

Joining me now to discuss, Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland, he sits on both the Foreign Relations and Finance Committees. Senator, thanks for taking the time this morning.

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD): Jim, it's good to be with you and thank you for your coverage and showing the world exactly what Mr. Putin is doing in Ukraine. We appreciate it very much.

SCIUTTO: Thank you, I appreciate you coming on. I understand you had the opportunity to speak with the president last night about Ukraine. I wonder, is the goal of the sanctions to collapse, really, the Russian economy, and are you concerned about any follow-on impacts of that?

CARDIN: Well, there're several reasons for the sanctions. First of all, we want to take away the financial support that Mr. Putin is receiving through his corrupt regime, through the oligarchs, that finance his operation. So, it really is to attack him for his support group. The sanctions, the personal sanctions that have been imposed on him and the oligarchs are having an impact as well as the economic sanctions, generally.

So, it is to make it clear that Mr. Putin and his oligarchs will pay a very heavy price as a result of the war in Ukraine. It's also to make it clear that Russia is going to be isolated internationally for this unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation.

And, third, it gives us, we think, leverage to Mr. Putin to end this war, to get relief. He's going to have to remove his troops from Ukraine. So, I think for all those reasons, these sanctions have had an impact.

SCIUTTO: So far here in Ukraine, we have not seen evidence of any withdrawal, the Russian forces pushing forward, using, in many cases, more devastating weapons. Have you seen evidence that there is pressure being applied on Putin, for instance, from some of the oligarchs around him who are also being sanctioned?

CARDIN: We know that the value of the ruble has fallen dramatically. We know that the supply chain routes within Ukraine itself have been very much disrupted as a result of the sanctions. We know that there is a cumulative impact occurring as more and more sanctions are being ratcheted up, including now the announcement this week by President Biden that we're not going to import any oil from Ukraine. All that is having a cumulative impact and, yes, it is affecting public opinion within Russia. You see that on the streets in Russia, and we believe that the support system that he has through the oligarchs has been very much damaged as a result of these sanctions.

SCIUTTO: Are you concerned -- is the U.S. prepared for retaliation from Russia?

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Russia has called those economic sanctions, in effect, a war -- declaration of war on Russia. And what might retaliation -- what form of retaliation might it take?

CARDIN: Well, Russia, as an economic force, what they can do to affect our economy is minimal. They can have some impact but it's minimal impact. So, we're not that concerned about that. In regards to oil, we can produce enough oil for our own country. We don't need to be that concerned about the Russian source for oil.

As it regards potential aggressive actions, such as cyber, et cetera, we are fully on alert to make sure that we defend ourselves and take appropriate action in the event that Russia tries to do that type of a warfare against us.

SCIUTTO: The vice president today walked right up to the line of calling Russia's attacks here in Ukraine war crimes. She called them atrocities. I wonder, is there a red line, should there be, in your view, for Russian attacks in this country where the U.S. would say, this is too much, this shall not stand, we're going to stop these attacks and intervene directly?

CARDIN: Well, Jim, first of all, Russia has crossed so many red lines, Mr. Putin has, in regards to violating international norms and laws. He must be held accountable for his war crimes. He has committed war crimes. And he should be held fully accountable. We saw that happen after World War II. We said we'd never allow atrocities to occur again, and we have. And, here, you have a major country clearly crossing the line of what is acceptable. He needs to be held accountable. I hope we hold him accountable at The Hague for war crimes.

We've got to make sure that our help to Ukraine is smart, that we give them everything that they need. We do not want to escalate a war in Europe. We do not want to see World War III. So, we have to be measured in what we do. But at the end of the, we're going to support to sovereignty of Ukraine. Ukraine will be a sovereign state. We know that, the fighting spirit of the people of Ukraine, Russia will never be able to take that away, and those responsible for these atrocities need to be held fully accountable.

SCIUTTO: But being held accountable is one thing. Being stopped is another. And Russia is not being stopped right now. I wonder, and it's perfectly understandable to avoid a broader war, but is it the U.S., are NATO, in effect, giving Russia veto power over U.S. military support to Ukraine?

CARDIN: Well, as you know, Ukraine is not a NATO country. There's a calculation that is made, and that is you don't want to see a broader conflict. You don't want to see a longer war. You don't want to see the war go through the entire Europe. So, I think you have to be smart in the manner in which you use NATO military force and U.S. military force.

And I think the president has been very clear, we're not going to send our troops into Ukraine. We made it clear that we have treaty alliances with our NATO allies and we have sent troops there to make sure that Mr. Putin understands that. But I think there are certain limits and the United States needs to show international leadership, but we need to make sure we do everything we can to help the Ukrainian people.

SCIUTTO: Senator Ben Cardin, I appreciate you joining the show this morning.

CARDIN: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, Russian troops continue to hit major Ukrainian cities from above, instead of on the ground. Does this signal a change in strategy? We're going to take a closer look, next.

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[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: There's new video into CNN this morning, which appears to show a Ukrainian strike on Russian tanks just outside of the capital, Kyiv. The Ukrainian military claims to have defeated a Russian tank regiment as well as killed its commander.

HILL: Ukrainian Armed Forces also sharing video of the aftermath, which, as you can see, shows tanks on fire, destroyed there.

Joining us now, retired U.S. Army Major General Paul Eaton, former Commanding General of Coalition Military Assistance Training Team in Iraq. Good morning. It's good to have you back with us this morning.

We'd like to start on that video, if we could, that long line of tanks that we see, which raises a couple of questions that Jim and I were talking about before the show, not only whether this seems to be smart military planning or staging on the part of Russia, but it also illustrates where this is happening, and that is smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood, homes on either side. What is your take, General, on what we're seeing in that video?

MAJ. GEN. PAUL EATON (RET.), FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL OF COALITION MILITARY ASSISTANCE TRAINING TEAM IN IRAQ: Well, I think we're seeing a structured ambush, and anytime you put tanks in an urban area, you've got to be surrounded and dismounted infantry at best and, clearly, we had a tank commander taken by surprise by a well- orchestrated, well-executed ambush with anti-tank weapon.

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