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Ukraine Says Russian Warship Launched 5 Strikes In Sky Over Odessa; U.S. Trying To Help Ukraine Without Triggering Wider War With Russia; VP Harris: U.S. Prepared To Defend "Every Inch" Of NATO Territory. Aired 2:00-2:30p ET

Aired March 10, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: And I'm Victor Blackwell. Officials in the city of Mariupol say that Russians are bombing the corridor designated to evacuate civilians. This is the same southern Ukraine city where the children's and maternity hospital was bombed yesterday. We now know that three people were killed in that, at least, including a child.

Now, this is a warning. This next video is graphic. These are images of people burying the bodies in mass graves. The Red Cross says the humanitarian situation in this area is becoming increasingly dire and desperate. Hundreds of thousands of people are without food, without clean water, there's no heat.

CAMEROTA: It's horrible to have to see these images. Russian forces are continuing to try and push into the capital of Kyiv. Heavy fighting is reportedly intensifying there. Earlier today, the highest level of talks between Russia and Ukraine since the start of this invasion ended without any progress. Russia would not agree to a ceasefire in Ukraine, instead insisting on a surrender. This is according to Ukraine's top diplomat. The Russian Foreign Minister, continuing to peddle lies and conspiracies about Russia's invasion.

Also today, Vice President Kamala Harris met with allies and Ukrainian refugees in Poland. And she announced that the U.S. has delivered Patriot missile systems to the region. CNN's Anderson Cooper is with us once again from Lviv, that's in western Ukraine. Anderson, tell us what you've been seeing.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it has been a lot of discipline and obviously over the lack of progress at those talks between foreign ministers. I want to take you to Odessa on the southern coast of Ukraine. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is there. Nick, if you can talk about that Russian ship carried out five strikes in the sky over Odessa, what do you know? What happened?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, thanks, Anderson, it isn't really clear quite how significant this Russian move was according as we know, from a Ukrainian region military official, apparently five shots over the port city here of Odesa. The local Ukrainian official is saying that was intended to try and work out how Ukrainian defenses would react. That may account for some of the sirens that we heard in the middle of the afternoon, fairly intense, fairly lengthy I have to say.

And we could also hear shortly before dusk after about five o'clock or so, what sounded like anti-aircraft fire down along the coast here, frankly incremental compared to the violence that's engulfing other parts of the country. But important because it gives you a sign, Anderson, about whether or not a Russian move on this the third- largest city and the vital port that Moscow really needs control of if it wants to exercise some degree of persuasion economically over the country whether or not a move for this city might be afoot at some point soon.

We've seen pressure mounting along the Black Sea coast, specifically along with the next major port Mykolaiv where the regional head today admitted in the last 24 hours, they had suffered losses at some of the checkpoints around that city but also said the airstrikes had taken out some of the Russian armor convoys there. And he did also put out a kind of cheat sheet really for Russian soldiers if indeed, they wanted to surrender. So a lot moving along here, certainly, but extra, I think anxiety here, in Odessa, Anderson.

COOPER: In Mariupol now, the Red Cross describing the humanitarian situation as increasingly dire, warning that hundreds of thousands of people are without food, without water, without electricity, or medical care. The temperatures here are dropping and are only going to get worse here in the coming days. What more do you know about what's going on?

WALSH: Yes, look, I mean, it's difficult to get a lot of information out of Mariupol, frankly, but we do know as you say, temperatures are dropping, hundreds of thousands of people without water, electricity, heat. We do know that the atrocious aftermath of that strike on the maternity and Children's Hospital in terms of the Russian explanations for what clearly it was, it seemed an airstrike by them is increasingly ridiculous, frankly, not only did at one point they suggest that there were not as pictures had shown from the scene patients in there but instead Ukrainian nationalists.

So, now the Russian Ministry of Defense is suggesting the whole thing was in fact, staged by Ukrainian nationalists to utter nonsense part of a playbook we've heard before in the past as is, of course to the targeting of medical facilities. And so the crater there, frankly, speaks for itself as does a statement by the WHO as well that they believe 24 medical facilities have been targeted since the beginning of this conflict.

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WALSH: But despite humanitarian corridors being promised today and the suggestion from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that they may be having some success, as far as we can tell, there has been none before those in Mariupol city being besieged under intense, violent pressure from the Russian forces around it. Again, that and the strike against the hospital, they're part of a pretty familiar playbook for anyone who's been observing Russian military tactics in Syria and elsewhere in Ukraine over the past decade, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. Nick Paton Walsh, appreciate it from Odessa tonight. Thank you. CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is live for us now in Kyiv. The Kyiv Regional Administration reported heavy fighting in the settlements near the capital. There were also plans for more civilian evacuations today. What happened?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Anderson, it was definitely a lot more fighting that we could hear even than we had over the past couple of days. They were still trying to continue to evacuate people from those Northwestern suburbs that we've been talking about a lot where some of the heaviest bombardment has been. They're trying to keep those corridors open, keep those yellow buses moving people out.

But it was definitely tougher today with a lot of artillery being heard in that area. The most significant development that we saw here in Kyiv, though, was increased fighting in the east. In the northeast, a suburb called Brovary, primarily up until now, the fighting has been kind of around the north, northwest, and the West. But this is significant because it feeds into this hypothesis that Russians are seeking to encircle the city, completely lay siege to it potentially bombarded.

And so what you're seeing in Brovary, though, as well, that's interesting is some pretty incredible resistance from Ukrainian forces. There's an extraordinary drone video that has surfaced which shows or appears to show I should say, a long tank column, Russian vehicles, and Ukrainian forces, essentially attacking it from multiple angles using anti-tank missiles. You can hear what appears to be some kind of audio recording from a Russian soldier in that -- in that tank unit who is saying that his commander has taken a casualty.

And so this is something that people are now watching very, very closely, Anderson because it is certainly a grim and ominous warning of things to come as fighting now spreading further and further around Kyiv. And after those talks today, just a growing sense that there is no end in sight and no new ceasefires in the foreseeable future, Anderson.

COOPER: Clarissa, what's extraordinary about that video, which you're showing right now, and again, this is from -- released by the Ukrainian military is how close those Russian tanks appear to be together as they are traveling. There's not much distance between them at all and essentially there's a bottleneck and they -- I mean, they appear to be like sitting ducks.

WARD: Well, and this is the thing that the Russians are having to contend with, particularly coming into Kyiv or trying to come into Kyiv. They're using the roads, right? And so the Ukrainians know where they're coming that's why they've been blowing up bridges to prevent them from passing. But we've also seen throughout the city, Ukrainians digging in creating defensive positions hidden in the ditches like along the side of the road. And so they are like sitting ducks.

The Ukrainians are sitting there, they're waiting, they have their javelins, their anti-tank missiles that they have been given by the U.S. and other countries, and then they can literally pick them off as they start to push in towards the city center. So the question becomes, in terms of the Russian strategy here, how do they fight back against that? Do they resort to more indiscriminate bombardment, heavier amount of airstrikes? We haven't seen in Kyiv, at least, that many airstrikes up until this point. And so the fear is that as they run into this problem with their ground forces, they're going to become increasingly belligerent and indiscriminate from the skies, Anderson.

COOPER: And the talk between Ukraine and Russia foreign ministers today is the highest level meeting there has been thus far ended in Turkey, no progress on ceasefire or humanitarian corridors. Reportedly, Russia's Lavrov continued with some falsehoods and propaganda. What did he say about Russia's take on where things stand?

WARD: Well, this was really concerning because not only was there no progress on the ceasefire, there was no progress on anything to the point where when you listen to Foreign Minister Lavrov's press conference, you wonder why he had really bothered to go at all. And when he talked about Russia's key demands, he seemed to re-insert some of the more contentious demands that recently hadn't been articulated by President Putin's spokesperson Dmitry Peskov.

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WARD: He talked again about the denazification of Ukraine. He talked about the need for the demilitarization of Ukraine. And while there are some things that the Ukrainians, I think behind closed doors would admit that they are willing to compromise on or to make concessions on particularly the status of Crimea, the status of these breakaway republics in the Donbass region, and even potentially, the issue of NATO membership and pursuing NATO membership, they obviously cannot agree in the midst or throes of an invasion to complete state of demilitarization.

And even aside from whether that would be practical, it would be politically impossible for President Zelenskyy who would then face an uprising within his own country. And so if anything, watching these talks unfold, one felt even less positive about the prospect of a diplomatic solution than they did before. Now, Foreign Minister Lavrov did say that actually, the Belarus track those ongoing negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegations on the Belarusian-Ukrainian border are the place where things like ceasefires would be agreed upon, but we don't know when those talks are going to resume, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, Clarissa Ward in Kyiv, thanks so much, appreciate it. The U.S. officials are trying to help beef up Ukraine's resistance against Russia without inciting a larger war with Moscow. Some of the main sticking points are whether or not to give Ukraine fighter jets or impose a no-fly zone. CNN Pentagon Correspondent Oren Lieberman has more on why the U.S. is refusing to go that far, Oren.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the no-fly zone at this point remains off the table because it would require a willingness to essentially shoot down Russian aircraft that violated the no-fly zone or take action against them. And that, for the U.S., is simply too close to a direct conflict between the U.S. and Russia. As for the transfer of military aircraft, either from Poland directly or through the U.S., the U.S. and the Pentagon made clear they do not support that.

We've learned more about why that is. It's because the U.S. has said -- a U.S. official told us this. That the most effective Ukrainian weapon against Russian aircraft is not Ukrainian aircraft. It is in fact the anti-aircraft systems and the anti-aircraft missiles that they've gotten from the U.S. and other NATO allies that have been and continue to flow into the country. Those, the U.S. official says have almost created an effective no-fly zone.

Russia isn't really flying above Ukraine. They're flying about 150 to 200 sorties a day, according to this U.S. official but most of those, the vast majority are over Russian territory. Only occasionally, we'll have a Russian military aircraft going quickly over Ukraine for a strike and then get out and that is because of the effectiveness of Ukraine's air defenses based on anti-aircraft systems not based on Ukrainian aircraft. Here is the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

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LIEUTENANT GENERAL SCOTT BERRIER, DIRECTOR, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: The Ukrainians have been somewhat effective with the assets and resources that they have. The Russians have not achieved what I would call air dominance or air superiority over the country of Ukraine right now. That said, they are -- they are taking some losses and they do need additional assets.

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LIEBERMANN: There is an effort, because of those losses that you just heard mentioned there, to get them more supplies, to get the more anti-aircraft missiles, which they have been using effectively not only to deny air superiority to the Russians but also really to deny them the freedom to maneuver, just as they're using their anti-armor, anti-tank missiles to deny Russians the freedom to maneuver on the ground. That's what's being used effectively and that's where the U.S. wants

to see the effort continue, not on the fighter jets. Of course, Anderson, there's an entirely different aspect of that discussion, and that's the political aspect of that. And that's where there still has a lot of momentum.

COOPER: No, Oren Liebermann, appreciate it. Victor and Alisyn, we really see the impact of those anti-tank missiles in that video that the Ukrainian military released of that convoy just being picked off one tank after another.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. That video is pretty breathtaking. It's fascinating to see that working there, but then also hear Clarissa say that the fighting has increased and that it might be the moment of encircling Kyiv that strategists have worried about.

BLACKWELL: Yes, they've expected since the first day of the invasion that it could happen in 24 to 48 hours, but it looks like now Russian forces are trying to encroach upon the city. Anderson, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Anderson, thank you. We'll check back with you. So gas prices are still rising. And you might think that the U.S. could just drill its way out of this. Up next, why that's much easier said than done?

BLACKWELL: Plus, the CIA director says that Vladimir Putin deeply underestimated the economic consequences of his Ukraine invasion and that those consequences are going to intensify.

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BLACKWELL: A key U.S. inflation measure shows that consumer prices have reached a 40-year high. Inflation was up 7.9 percent in February compared to February of last year, and a point 8 percent from January. That's according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. President Biden suggested that Vladimir Putin and Russia's invasion of Ukraine are to blame for the rising prices. Now, the price of gas is up 38 percent from a year ago, used cars cost more, 41 percent on average. Food, housing prices also up.

CAMEROTA: Rising gas prices contributed to nearly a third of the overall inflation increase and they continue to rise. According to AAA, today's national average for a gallon of regular unleaded is $4.32. That's a seven-cent jump from just yesterday. It is nearly 60 cents higher than a week ago. A Moody's Analysis estimates the price increases could cost households about $1,300 on average this year.

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BLACKWELL: All right, more on Ukraine and the diplomatic front, President Biden spoke at length with Turkish President Erdogan this morning about their shared concern over Russia's invasion. Vice President Kamala Harris, she met with world leaders in Poland today and she said the U.S. is prepared to defend every inch of NATO territory.

CAMEROTA: CNN Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins us now. So Kaitlan, do we know what came of these talks?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course, she is there sending largely a symbolic message there, talking on the ground about defending NATO saying that there should be investigations into other war crimes are going on as we are seeing these attacks on civilians in Ukraine only intensify as the days go on.

But, of course, what is also looming over this trip of the vice president while she was in Poland was this recent rejection that the Pentagon firmly closed the door on yesterday was this Polish proposal to send these used fighter jets to the custody of the United States who could then theoretically transfer them on to Ukraine. That is something the Pentagon has said they are not going to do.

They said they don't think it'll be effective. They think that Ukraine has enough planes right now as it is fully mission capable as they said these several squadrons of planes were. And today, when Vice President Harris was there, she also sidestepped questions. We talked about the importance of the Polish-United States relationship.

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KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am here in Poland as an expression of the enduring and important relationship between the United States and Poland that, again, has been long- standing. But in particular, on the issue of Ukraine is unified and is clear, we will do everything together in partnership in solidarity.

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COLLINS: And Victor and Alisyn, one of the things we are following closely here at the White House is this new warning coming from officials that say they do believe President Putin is laying the groundwork for a possible chemical weapons attack in Ukraine. They say that he is following classic textbook examples of what Russians have done in the past, often accusing other people of what they themselves are planning on doing.

But when Jen Psaki was asked just now in the press briefing if there was a red line for President Biden, because of course, he has maintained the stance that U.S. forces will not go into Ukraine to fight Russian forces. She was asked if there was a red line if there was a chemical weapons attack that could change that calculus of President Biden's.

She said that she would not get into hypotheticals given, of course, a chemical weapons attack hasn't actually happened, though they are warning people should be on the lookout for it. And when asked if a chemical weapons attack would go unanswered by the United States military or by President Biden, she noted with the steps they've taken in the past but declined to say whether or not that would be a situation that warranted a response by the United States military.

CAMEROTA: Yes, the unthinkable has to be thinkable at some point. Kaitlan Collins, thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right, joining us now is former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst. He is also senior director of The Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center. Mr. Ambassador, welcome back. Let's start where Kaitlan stopped. The potential for a chemical weapons attack in Ukraine, the administration, as we just heard there is not going as far to draw a red line there, should it?

JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: The administration needs to demonstrate greater strength in standing up to Putin's ongoing invasion of Ukraine. The decision on the MiGs -- the decision on a no-fly zone, a categorical rejection, all suggest the fear of confronting Putin. Putin understands that very well. And at a time as Russian forces are gaining momentum in Ukraine, we should be giving Ukraine every single thing we can that they ask for to stop that Russian offensive.

BLACKWELL: So before we get to the planes, I just want to be clear as I'm understanding here, you think it's a mistake for this administration not to say if we see the use -- evidence of the use of chemical weapons in Ukraine, the West, U.S., NATO will step in.

HERBST: We would -- we should say that if Russia takes the next step, we will need to respond according -- in a responsible and appropriate manner. We don't need to say what we're going to do but we should not rule out things that we might need to reconsider in the wake of such a Russian provocation.

BLACKWELL: Well speaking of --

HERBST: By the way, it's not just the Russian --

BLACKWELL: Go ahead.

HERBST: It's not just the Russian chemical strike. What they do to Kyiv, what they've done in Mariupol, massive bombardment. The American public is going to be deeply upset and calling for stronger action. So that too, we need to be ready to take necessary steps and we should not be -- we should not be ruling out things that make Putin's military's life more difficult.

BLACKWELL: You brought up the attacks in Mariupol, of course, we saw the attack on the children's and maternity hospital there. We now know that three people, according to local officials, died including a child. The vice president today stopped short of calling what we've seen these attacks on civilian targets, war crimes. Should even rhetorically we hear something stronger from the administration on that?

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HERBST: Well, we've heard some talk from administration officials about Russian war crimes. I can imagine a little bit of hesitation on this -- on this specific incident, you may want a little bit more information. But according to the World Health Organization, there have been 18 hospitals struck in Ukraine by Russian forces, and the WHO does not consider this to be unintentional. So it looks like we've got pretty good evidence to call this a war crime. And now the Brits are saying the Russians use the vacuum bomb, which is also a war crime.

And we've said the Russians have used cluster bombs, which is also a war crime. So we're beginning to see a pretty clear pattern of what Russian war crimes in Ukraine and we should call them out on it. And we should be sending warnings, maybe a little bit less to Putin, but more to the generals or the people in the line of command, who are conducting these things that they too can be indicted as war criminals.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about these negotiations, the talks in Turkey between the Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers. We heard after the talks, Sergey Lavrov says that no one was going to agree to a ceasefire at this meeting and he resurrected this demand for the denazification of Ukraine. If that's the starting point if that's a requirement, is there really any diplomatic progress that can be made, a diplomatic end to this?

HERBST: There's none at the moment. What has to happen? Putin needs to feel the pain. The sanctions that have been levied against Russia over the past two weeks are a major, major blow to the Russian economy and to Putin himself. But we need to do more on the ground so Putin realizes he cannot win a military victory in Ukraine.

That's why we need to send Ukraine real anti-aircraft weapons beyond Stingers. We need -- we should be sending them anti-ship missiles. If we had done that a year ago or six months ago, they take out those Russian warships that are currently bombing Odessa. We need to be sending right much more help, including those MiGs that the administration says no to.

BLACKWELL: So, let's talk about planes now. Well, you are one of the 27 foreign policy officials who signed on to this letter calling for the limited no-fly zone over humanitarian zones that have been established. Of course, we've seen how Putin and Russian forces respect those zones. The defense Intel agency director says today that it's not especially necessary that they need a no-fly zone right now.

What they're seeing is the attacks are coming from the ground and many of the sorties that are flown are over a Russian territory. So is that what they need right now? Do they need the planes if the attacks are coming from showing on the ground?

HERBST: I think that the administration already showed its hand which is it's afraid of "escalatory measures," means that they -- that Putin is intimidating them. And that's the message that Putin takes away from it. Everything else is just been to try to divert attention from the bad decisions that the administration made.

That's true both on the no-fly zone -- excuse me, the humanitarian corridor because we're not advocating a traditional no-fly zone, which would require a pre-emptive attack on Russian installations. We -- if they were not about to approve the "humanitarian no-fly zone," they should have simply kept silent, left it on the table, so Moscow has to worry about it.

We need to demonstrate to the Russians we will not be intimidated because Putin's military is not doing very well in Ukraine in part because of our weapons supply. But if we had not been so slow in sending weapons, if we had said other things I've already mentioned, superior anti-aircraft equipment, anti-missiles should be anti-ship missiles, Russians military offensive in Ukraine would be even worse off than it is today and if Russia's mounts this attack now, we need to get that stuff there.

BLACKWELL: All right, Ambassador John Herbst, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Well, the U.S. Treasury secretary says Russia's economy will be devastated by sanctions and more are being considered.

BLACKWELL: And the UK is issuing new sanctions against seven Russian oligarchs, one of them, the owner of a storied sports franchise.

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