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Russia Accused Of Bombing Children's Hospital, Maternity Ward; Ukraine Evacuations Increasing But Remain Limited; Ukraine's Top Prosecutor Calls For New War Crimes Tribunal; Bodies Being Places In Mass Graves In Mariupol, Ukraine; U.S. VP Harris In Poland Amid Fighter Jet Disagreement; Poland Has Taken In 1.3 Million Ukrainian So Far; Polish Group Helping Ukrainian Orphans; City Official: 1,300 Civilians Killed In Mariupol, Ukraine; Russian FM Lavrov, Ukrainian FM Kuleba To Meet In Turkey. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired March 10, 2022 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00]
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: But all previous attempts at diplomacy have failed to yield any real breakthroughs.
And Russia's ongoing attacks on civilians will be tough for Ukraine to get past. The latest target appears to be a maternity ward and Children's Hospital in Mariupol. We're about to air some images. You will no doubt find upsetting.
They show some of the 17 pregnant women and staff who were visibly wounded in that blast. You can see there is blood and a tremendous amount of rubble.
A few hours before the bombing, Russia's Foreign Ministry claimed that Ukrainian combat troops were holed up in the hospital and had expelled patients and staff clearly, that is not true. Mariupol's mayor called the attack pure evil and said the occupiers will face justice at The Hague. The Ukrainian President agrees it is a war crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): A strike on a maternity hospital is a final proof, a proof of genocide of Ukrainians is taking place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right. Mariupol in the southeast has been particularly hard hit as we've been reporting, but the ramped up attacks are also unfolding in other key parts of Ukraine. The areas in red showing where Russian troops have been gaining ground.
But perhaps what's most egregious about the maternity ward attack is that it happened during what was supposed to be a ceasefire. A ceasefire proposed by Russia that was meant to help civilians trapped in Mariupol to escape. CNN, Sam Kiley picks up the story. SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're really stretched. Whatever car you have send them here. He says airstrike Maternity Hospital. This was Russia's response to a global appeal for a ceasefire to evacuate a city of a million people. A bomb dropped next to a maternity hospital in Mariupol.
It's hospital number three. Inside a frantic search for survivors. Early reports say that there were more than a dozen injured, a miraculous outcome to an attempt to a mass killing at a place where lives should begin.
Many women and children had already fled to underground bunkers after a week of Russian bombardment. Ukraine's President renewed his pleas for NATO to drive Russia from his nation's skies after the hospital air strike.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY (through translator): Everything that the occupiers do with Mariupol is already beyond atrocity. Europeans, Ukrainians, citizens of Mariupol, today, we must be united in condemning this war crime of Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: Evacuations from other towns have been more successful, but still very limited. Around 700 people, mostly women and children were bussed out of Anegada the site of Europe's biggest nuclear reactor, which was captured recently by Russia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The shops are empty. There's nothing there. Not enough medical supplies. We're tired. We need to eat and rest.
KILEY: It may seem extraordinary, but these are the lucky ones. They've escaped from the shadow of a nuclear power station and the clutches of Russian troops. But in comparison to what people are enduring in Mariupol, this is good fortune.
Yulia Karaulan volunteers at refugee center in Zaporizhzhia set up to receive people fleeing her hometown of Mariupol. It's empty. She's been waiting a week for news from home of her husband Evgeni (ph), and daughter Yasha (ph). This morning, she got a brief call.
How's your daughter doing?
YULIA KARAULAN, VOLUNTEER, HOMETOWN IN MARIUPOL: My daughter told me she loves me.
KILEY: Of course, she does.
KARAULAN: Actually, how she's alive. It's a miracle. She's doing like all of the children doing now in Mariupol almost no food, no drinking water, no electric. It was minus five this night. They have no heat sitting in a cold basement in some coats. KILEY: Hasmal (ph) family is living in a bomb shelter with hundreds of
others. She says they can only survive another few days, then, they will have to surface. Perhaps to face more of this. Sam Kiley, CNN, Zaporizhzhia.
HOLMES: Now, Ukrainian officials often use two words to describe attacks like these war crimes. But the nation's top prosecutor says the current legal structure is not enough to investigate alleged war crimes in Ukraine. So she called for new investigative mechanisms as part of a special war crimes tribunal for her country. Here's why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IRYNA VENEDIKTOVA, PROSECUTOR GENERAL, UKRAINE: Russia is erasing from the face of the earth. The whole piece of cities and towns. Russian bombs had been fired into hospitals and schools, killing our children. These are war crimes and crimes against humanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And Iryna Venediktova joins me now here on set. And thanks so much for coming in.
What kinds of war crimes do you think you'll be able to prove as we go forward?
[02:05:10]
VENEDIKTOVA: Michael, thank you very much for this invitation. For me, it's very important to speak about this. Of course, we speak about war crimes, about crimes against humanity, about aggressive war, and, of course, about genocide.
But what we have now in Ukraine, every day, we have innocent civilians who are killed, murdered. Yesterday, you remember, it was Maternity Hospital in Mariupol. Every day we see them bombed attics, to kindergartens, to schools, to-- just civilians houses. And every day we have more and more deaths.
HOLMES: War crimes are often hard to prove.
VENEDIKTOVA: Absolutely.
HOLMES: Are you confident that there will be the proof of war crimes and the evidence to hold those responsible?
VENEDIKTOVA: We proved everything. Now we have 1,000 cases in Ukraine. We have big murder case against top military and political in Russian Federation and their propaganda agent.
Because what we see now, yesterday, before this bomb attack on the Maternity Hospital, Russian speakers from Minister of Defense told that additional troops were in this hospital. It's--
HOLMES: Yes, that Ukrainian troops were in there. Yeah.
VENEDIKTOVA: -- absolutely untrue.
HOLMES: Yes.
VENEDIKTOVA: And we are ready to prove in national courts, and in other jurisdiction. I am very thankful for other Prosecutor General. For now five European countries who started their own investigations by their own legislation.
And what is important to me, we will make joint investigation team, and we do it together, and we will be successful. And I'm sorry, Michael, another platform, it is, of course International Criminal Court.
HOLMES: Yes.
VENEDIKTOVA: I said Judicial Court and Strasbourg Court. And we now understand that our judicial court will be successful, because we have a lot of good lawyers, a lot of top people who are inside the counter states man and woman, and we will.
HOLMES: How important is it for ordinary Ukrainians that there is accountability for what has happened here?
VENEDIKTOVA: How important for Ukrainians? It's aggression of life and death actually. I'm from Kharkiv. I'm Russian speaker, and might be 100 percent in Kharkiv people who spoke Russian before this war.
That's why for Ukrainians very important to stop this war. This is cruel, brutal war. You remember Chechnya?
HOLMES: Yes. Grozny.
VENEDIKTOVA: You remember Syria?
HOLMES: Yes, Aleppo.
VENEDIKTOVA: Yes. And what is this people who responsible for Chechnya and Grozny? Nothing? And whole world just look at the Chechnya and Grozny, and now I'm very scared that whole civilization decided that Ukraine, "Oh, okay." Let's speak about this late, but not gentlemen and women.
HOLMES: Yes.
VENEDIKTOVA: It's very, very important. If we not stop Putin now, the war will be in other houses, in houses of Europe and other parts of earth.
HOLMES: It is notoriously difficult to lay or get indictments for people high up in the chain of command. Some people say that Vladimir Putin's own statements are making him indictable. Do you think that Vladimir Putin could be charged?
VENEDIKTOVA: I am sure, yes. And he-- and his authorities and whole people who are agents of his propaganda, and that sorry, Russian citizens who are just silent, and look at this, and try not to feel (INAUDIBLE)
And I asked Russian citizens, stop this war. Because if you don't stop your authority, you're war criminals too. I want-- you know, it's possible. I want to demonstrate this fragment of bomb.
This fragment of projectile was in the jet of the body of just a kid.
HOLMES: Yes.
VENEDIKTOVA: He was with his family. He tried to hide from the attic. And his mother couldn't even took the body of her dead son. After several hours, she went again to the (INAUDIBLE) get-- took this body. And several hours from one region of Ukraine to other region to Ukraine try to save her dead boy, it was dead, and this boy--
HOLMES: And this is evidence for you?
VENEDIKTOVA: And this is evidence, of course. And we have a lot of such evidence.
HOLMES: Yes. This is a huge piece of a bomb fragment that came out of a child's chest. And does it complicate matters that Ukraine is not a signatory to the ICC? The U.S. isn't, Russia isn't. Does that complicate things or it doesn't matter?
VENEDIKTOVA: Actually, that's true. We didn't sign to the servitude, but 39 countries made the referral and now the Prosecutor of International Criminal Court, Karim Khan started his own investigations.
[02:10:10]
VENEDIKTOVA: Russia did not sign servitude, too. That's why it's impossible to go with them, crime of aggression. But for this, imagine for this crime, we decided to make maybe special military tribunal. Because for us this qualification it's very important too.
HOLMES: Yes.
VENEDIKTOVA: But it's now a question how to do it with competence of International Criminal Court.
HOLMES: Right. Iryna Venediktova, thank you so much. Prosecutor General of Ukraine.
VENEDIKTOVA: Thank you.
HOLMES: Appreciate you coming and making time. Very important for Ukrainians that there is accountability for some of the things that have going on here.
VENEDIKTOVA: Thank you that you are here. It's very important for us. We are very appreciative that American citizens are with us. I feel it, I see it, and I hear it every day. Thank you very much, Michael. Thank you. Bye.
HOLMES: Appreciate you coming in. Thank you so much. That's the Prosecutor General of this country joining us now.
And all right now, a warning once again. We're about to air some images that you might find disturbing once more. They show bodies being placed in mass graves. This is also in Mariupol, which was hit hard early in the invasion has now been under siege for about a week.
Two city officials say about 1,300 civilians have been killed there since this all began. We can't independently confirm that figure. But you can see the pictures. That figure goes far beyond by the way, the UN estimated death toll of 516, which is for the entire country and clearly is a vast under estimation.
Just horrific scenes there. Well, new diplomatic efforts set to begin amid the growing civilian toll the Ukrainian Foreign Minister, Dmytro Kuleba will meet with his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov in Turkey next hour.
And Kuleba says that he will try to get the most out of this. His expectations though are not high. Jomana Karadsheh joins me now from where the talks will take place in Antalya in Turkey.
Jomana, so much at stake. These are the highest level talks since the invasion began. What does each side want? What can we expect? Can we expect anything tangible to come out of this meeting?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Michael the both Foreign Ministers Lavrov and Kuleba arrived here in this really beautiful resorts town, a golf and spa resort town in Southern Turkey on the Mediterranean Coast, quite a world away from the war zone.
They're expected to meet as you mentioned, in the next 45 minutes or so. We're already seeing bilateral meetings taking place between the Turkish Foreign Minister and his Ukrainian counterpart, of course, the Turkish Foreign Minister will be attending those meetings, trilateral meetings between both the Ukrainian and the Russian Foreign Ministers.
This is really coming after a serious diplomatic push from Turkey, the Turkish Foreign Minister and Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for the past few days and weeks have really been working the phones to try and get a meeting going. They try to bring President Zelenskyy and Putin together.
But for now, this is the meeting that they have managed to facilitate. And you know, Turkish officials, Michael are quite hopeful that this is going to be in the words of the foreign minister, a turning point. President Erdogan hoping that this will crack open the door to a permanent ceasefire in his words.
But I mean, realistically, Michael, no one is really expecting any sort of a major breakthrough here, especially when it comes to the major issues at the heart of this conflict for both countries.
You know, the Russians are saying that this is an important continuation of the negotiations that have been already taking place. The Ukrainian Foreign Minister, Dmytro Kuleba, as you mentioned, saying that he doesn't have very high expectations, but he's going to try and make the most out of it in his word to try and get the maximum out of it.
He is coming to these talks with three main issues. We understand from a statement he made yesterday, and that is a ceasefire, and then quote unquote, "Liberate our territories, and to try and resolve the catastrophic humanitarian issues on the grounds."
You know, while he's not really expecting any sort of a breakthrough, at the same time, he says he is coming to these talks from a position of strength. They feel confident with the support that Ukraine has gotten with the fighting that the Ukrainians have put on the ground, and also the sanctions that Russia has been hit with.
So we'll have to wait and see what comes out of it, Michael, but also a very important development late last night, we heard from the Director General of the IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency saying that he got an invitation from the Turkish Foreign Minister to meet with the foreign ministers of Russia and Ukraine here saying, that he's going to try and hopefully make progress on the safety and security of nuclear sites in Ukraine.
HOLMES: All right. I appreciate the update there, Jomana.
[02:15:10]
HOLMES: And keep us informed of how those talks go. Jomana Karadsheh there in Turkey for us.
It's just after 9:00 a.m. here in Lviv. And let me tell you earlier on today, it was 11 degrees Fahrenheit, it was minus 11 Celsius. So imagine being that cold and on foot.
That's how many Ukrainians are fleeing the war zone in their country. We're going to look at how many are leaving, where they're going. When we come back.
And also for the children of the war in Ukraine, the journey from home can be terrifying and confusing as the attacks they survived.
Coming up. Their troubled past gives way to an uncertain future. Stay with us, we'll be right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. U.S. Vice President, Kamala Harris in Poland right now and we'll meet the country's president and prime minister in the coming hours. She is hoping to clear up a dispute over Poland's plan to send fighter jets to Ukraine by way of the U.S. NATO airbase in Germany.
The U.S. has rejected that idea saying it could drag NATO into direct conflict with Russia. Very touchy subject.
Now, the UN Refugee Agency says more than 2 million people have now fled Ukraine, about half of them going to neighboring Poland.
[02:20:13]
HOLMES: They're cold, they're tired, and they arrive with only what they can carry. The burden to flee put on women and children since men under 60 are expected to stay and fight for their country. The UN estimates if the war grinds on, the number of refugees could hit 4 million.
Now, one group taking care of Ukrainian orphans who need help to escape the attack. Sara Sidner reports they're safe for now. But they have little hope of returning home anytime soon.
SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The normal beautiful chaos of children at play. But these children have been through hell and back more than once in their young lives. Some are orphans, others foster children in Ukraine, and suddenly overnight, they became war refugees.
Fleeing over the Polish border from Kyiv.
TATYAN, VOLUNTEER, SOS CHILDREN'S VILLAGES (through translator): The youngest one says, "I want to go home", I'm telling him that he can't. It's scary there. He doesn't understand.
SIDNER: This is the only woman they know as Mama. This is their comfort, their constant. She helped them escape Ukraine.
But doing that meant leaving her own family behind and becoming a refugee herself.
TATYAN (through translator): I have a daughter and mother in Ukraine. I'm worrying so much. But these children should be saved.
SIDNER: Her daughter is staying behind a fight Russia as a member of the Ukraine Territorial Defense. These children have been fighting for their place in the world from an early age. We're not showing their faces to protect them.
Are there abuse as well, actual Physical abuse?
OKSANA, PSYCHOLOGIST, SOS CHILDREN'S VILLAGES (through translator): Before the war, our children have been abused physically, psychologically, economically, and sexually. They suffered. They didn't have a childhood.
Now, in Poland, they are safe at the SOS Children's Village. But the trauma of war and abuse never really goes away. Their longtime mental health counselor says.
SIDNER: She's held it together to reassure the children even while they all hid in the basement with bombs exploding outside.
TATYANA (through translator): It was around 4:00 a.m. I woke my husband up and told him, "Kulya (ph), this is war." We started to seal the windows and children started to scream. I was trying to calm him. "Look at me, breathe. We're going to seal the windows. Everything is under control. Now we need you to stop the panic and help us." SIDNER: So far SOS Children's Village says it has brought 107 orphans and foster children out of Ukraine. Some children escaped without seeing war up close, others witnessed horrific scenes.
OKSANA (through translator): There's a girl which is coming to us. She broke free from the hell of Irpin, a city that's been leveled, and she witnessed a family being shot before her eyes. When she thinks of the man responsible for raining down bombs and bullets on her beloved country, her tears turn to rage.
Putin is the second Hitler, it is serious. If the world doesn't stop him, there will be World War III.
SIDNER: Putin has said that he is going into Ukraine to kill Nazis, you are saying that Putin is in your mind, the new Hitler?
OKSANA (through translator): Yes, it is obvious now that he is not fighting Nazis.
SIDNER: While they are all grateful to escape to Poland, the children and adults all say they want one thing to be able to cross the border home to a safe Ukraine.
And I should mention that now the number of refugees in total that have come over the Polish border from Ukraine is now up to 1.3 million people. Sara Sidner, CNN, Przemysl, Poland.
HOLMES: Now, if you would like to help people in Ukraine who might be in need of shelter, food, water, warm clothing, please go to cnn.com/impact You're going to find several ways there that you can help.
Quick break here on the program. When we come back, two weeks since the start of the Russian invasion, and Ukrainians remain resilient, vowing to defend their land that includes the country's former prime minister.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To show to the entire world that we have will, we have guts, and we are fighting like hell.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:29:20]
HOLMES: Welcome back. I'm Michael Holmes in Lviv, Ukraine. The world reacted with shock and horror to the scene in the southern port city of Mariupol. Ukraine blaming Russia for bombing a Maternity and Children's Hospital. We do warn you that images are graphic and upsetting.
Police reporting at least 17 people wounded, no reports of anyone killed as yet. Russia claiming without any proof that there were combat positions in the hospital, not far away more civilians targeted at a university, and city council building. More civilian targets.
Ukraine's president says the bombings are proof that Russia is committing genocide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY (through translator): The hospitals are ruined, the schools are ruined, the churches are ruined, ordinary buildings and all the dead people, dead children.
[02:30:00]
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, it has been two weeks now since Russia unleashed, and this is important, it's unprovoked assault on Ukraine. And we have seen the devastating toll facing civilians as a tax ramp up, evacuations remain limited, and the death toll climbs. The heartbreaking devastation on the ground, unimaginable. CNN's Phil Black reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Our plans are not to occupy Ukraine, we do not plan to impose ourselves on anyone.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): With those false words, the unthinkable began. Violence, destruction, and suffering rained down on Ukraine and its people.
In this new time of horrors, people sheltered underground or risk being bombed in their homes. Vast numbers had little choice but to flee. Their leader had a choice, but decided to stay.
The president is here, he said from the streets of Kyiv.
Russia's firepower, it's vastly great in numbers, failed to make quick early progress. Some of the first Russian units to try pushing into major cities were wiped out. While advanced weapons supplied by allies added to Russian losses. Here, knocking an attack helicopter out of the sky. Vladimir Putin insisted Russians and Ukrainians are one people. Ukrainian civilians showed they disagreed by chasing Russian vehicles, lying down before them, climbing on top of them. Even defying Russian gunfire to peacefully protest the invasion.
But while Ukraine's spirited resistance inspired the world, Russia's war machine continued to inflict a terrible human cost. Near Kyiv, thousands fled across a down bridge. The bombardment ever closer. For some in Ukraine, death now comes with little warning. This strike killed a family of four. Cameras have occasionally captured terrifying moments of impact or weapons flying through the sky. Far more often, they record the aftermath. The fires, blacked, ripped and punctured buildings. Usually, people's homes and businesses. But also, schools, churches, hospitals.
The devastated communities that prove false Russia's claim, civilians are not targets. Two weeks into this war, Russia's invasion grinds on. Advancing in the South, slowly encircling Kyiv from the North, and Kharkiv in the East. The world can only watch. Largely united in disgust, determined to punish Vladimir Putin. But incapable of stopping him. Phil Black, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Much more from Ukraine coming up. But for now, let's head back to Atlanta and Rosemary Church. Over to you, my friend.
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you, Michael. Appreciate it. Well, countries around the world are cutting ties with Russia as it escalates attacks in Ukraine. But not China. After the break, why Chinese state media sounds a lot like Russian media.
Plus, are sanctions on Russia also affecting China? The precarious position some Chinese businesses find themselves in and will it cause China to change its tune on the invasion?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:35:00]
Welcome back, everyone. Well, the West and, indeed, most of the world stands with Ukraine, Russia still has a major ally in China. Instead of denouncing Russia for its invasion, Beijing has instead taken to spreading its propaganda. CNN's David Culver reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): China's national broadcaster, CCTV, looking increasingly look like Russian state television these days. It's anchors, parroting the Kremlin. Calling the invasion of Ukraine, a special military operation. It's stories, highlighting Moscow's grievances against Kyiv and its Western allies. Along with Russia military progress on the battlefield. They rarely mentioned the fierce resistance and growing suffering in war torn Ukraine.
Publicly, Beijing stresses its impartiality in the conflict, even indicating its willingness to be a mediator. Coverage in its strictly controlled state and social media tells a very different story. CNN combing through Chinese TV and digital news reports in the first eight days of the Russian attack, along with thousands of social media reports from the outlets.
CULVER (on camera): Our findings? China has largely adopted Russia's talking points. Actively helping the Kremlin disseminates its version of the bloody war to millions here and beyond.
CULVER (voiceover): The Chinese Foreign Ministry has yet to respond to our request for comment. But remember, Russian President Vladimir Putin's last foreign visit before he launched the invasion was here to China. Following the 38th meeting between Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping since 2013 and just hours before the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics, the two governments declared a partnership with "No Limits".
[02:40:00] China and Russia's increasingly close ties had include coordinating their message on the global stage. Such coordination, it now appears, has drawn Beijing into playing an important role in the Kremlin's disinformation campaign.
On February 26th, after two nights of Russian bombardment, Zelenskyy shared a video of himself on the streets of Kyiv. Russian officials quickly alleged that Zelenskyy had fled the country and the video was pre-recorded. Less than 15 minutes later, CCTV flashed a news alert claiming Zelenskyy has left Kyiv, initially without any retribution. More than 160 Chinese state media outlets reposted the CCTV alert. A hashtag, Russia says, Zelenskyy has left Kyiv, later got more than 510 million views on Chinese social media Weibo. And yet, it was not true.
Perhaps most damning, an internal memo purportedly from state-run publication, Beijing News, surfaced online two days before the Russian invasion even started. The memo directed staff not to publish anything negative about Russia or pro-West. It was mistakenly posted on the outlet's social media account before being set to private and eventually deleted.
CNN research has found that China's major state media outlets appear to be following that playbook. Of the most retweeted post on Weibo from February 24th through March 3rd, more than 46 percent contained pro-Russia comments. Compared to less than 5 percent with pro-Ukraine statements. Roughly 35 percent of the post, included attacks on the U.S. and its allies.
With reports by Russia state media outlets being banned in many Western nations, and Moscow enacting its own great fire wall to censor dissenting voices domestically, Chinese state media is spreading and amplifying Putin's narrative on-air and online, around the clock and across the globe.
David Culver, CNN, Shanghai.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Jamie Metzl served as director for Multilateral Affairs on the U.S. National Security Council and is a Senior Fellow at the Atlantic council. He joins me now from New York. Thank you so much for being with us.
JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: My pleasure, Rosemary.
CHURCH: So, we've seen Chinese media adopt Russia's narrative in this war on Ukraine, and we know that President Putin's last foreign visit before he launched his invasion of that country, was with China's President Xi Jinping. And you recently Tweeted this, there can be no doubt that Xi Jinping gave Putin the greenlight to invade Ukraine. But do you think that China was onboard for an invasion as extensive and deadly as what we've all been witnessing? Targeting citizens, homes and hospitals?
METZL: Certainly, China gave Putin the green light for this invasion. But for sure, they didn't know. And I don't think Putin know -- knew, what this would entail. So, what they thought it would be would be some lightning strike, perhaps some limited effort. Maybe the Chinese thought that. What we're seeing is a grinding war. And we've seen that the Russian strategy has shifted from taking the cities quickly to pummeling and murdering Ukrainian citizens into submission.
So, China is finding itself in this very, very difficult position where Xi called President Putin his best friend. They said there were no limits to the friendship between China and Russia. And now that friendship is being tested because China is ostensibly all in for this invasion. Certainly, based on the majority of what Chinese government officials have said. Based on what kind of communications are being allowed in Chinese social media, and based on the actions of the Chinese government. So, the Chinese government is not for murdering Ukrainian civilians. Now is the time to speak up.
CHURCH: Yes. And, of course, so China has prospered over the years under peace and doesn't like global instability like this. President Xi would, of course, also be infuriated by the unity and strength that we've been seeing with the alliance of democracies, the U.S. and its allies working in unison against Russia would've taken China by surprise, no doubt.
Do you think this is why we are seeing China offer to mediate in this crisis? And could President Xi stop this war immediately with just one phone call to President Putin?
METZL: Well, certainly, both President Putin and President Xi, and frankly much of the world were surprised by the unified and strong response by the Western alliance, Japan, and others. And certainly, had the Russians been able to waltz into Ukraine, that would have had big implications for China and its ongoing threats to Taiwan. So, now everyone is having to take a fresh look. I've not heard of any serious effort by the Chinese to mediate between Russia and Ukraine.
[02:45:00]
It's clear that President Xi could end this war with a single phone call. And a single public statement demanding that Putin end the war and that Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine. He is choosing -- China is choosing not to end this war because it's siding with Russia in this terrible catastrophe. China, in many ways, has been a free-rider in international affairs. If China wants to be a leading nation, and it should want to be a leading nation, now is the time for China to speak with a moral voice. And it's very unfortunate that we have yet to hear that voice.
CHURCH: And the U.S. has banned all Russian energy imports. But the EU has not gone quite as far as that. And then of course, China will likely buy cheap Russian oil and gas anyway that the West is now banning. So, what is achieved by doing all of this, especially when the West is going to have to turn our other autocrats to supply their nations with energy?
METZL: Well, we have to be very strong on Russia. What we're seeing now in Ukraine is an absolute violation of the United Nations charter of a bedrock principle of international law and international relations. So, we need to be extremely tough. And many Chinese companies and the larger banks are actually quite cautious now about doing business with Russia because they don't want to be caught by secondary sanctions.
And that's why though, we need to be strong now. We need the strongest possible sanctions. We need to make sure we're giving Ukraine the weapons that they need to defend themselves. Not because we want war, but because a strong stance now is the most important step, we can make to prevent a larger war that we will stumble into if we just escalate bit by bit. Because, we've all spent the first week of the war falling in love with the Ukrainian people, with their incredible courage. And it would just be beyond tragic if we spend the next week watching them murdered, wholesale, by indiscriminate Russian bombing targeting civilian.
CHURCH: Jamie Metzl, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.
And still to come, CNN speaks with a family in Ukraine that's had to leave two homes due to war in their country. Their story just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:50:00]
HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone. An update now to our breaking news here in Ukraine. The head of the regional government in Sumy says, three green corridors will be open there today. If all goes as planned, a ceasefire and civilian evacuation would then take place, they could already be underway in fact. Sumy, one of the first humanitarian corridors agreed to by both Russia and Ukraine earlier this week. It's also been the scene of heavy shelling and civilian casualties.
Now, there is no -- there is growing concern for Ukrainian civilians, of course, as the desperation and devastation on the ground worsens. For some, this isn't the first time fleeing a conflict. CNN's Anderson Cooper met one family who has had to abandon a home twice now because of war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): It's good to know there are still some children in Ukraine who have no idea the war has come.
COOPER (on camera): Can you make the sound of a pigeon?
COOPER (voiceover): In Lviv, a little girl, named Eva, delights in feeding pigeons in the park. She's three years old, but this is not her home. She arrived two weeks ago with her mother, Ana, and Timor, her father, and baby sister from Kharkiv.
COOPER (on camera): Do they understand what's going on?
ANA, MOTHER OF EVA, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE (through translator): No. We are lucky because when bombing started in Kharkiv, it was 5:00am and she was asleep. She didn't wake up. All of our basic necessary things were already packed. Do you understand? My husband and I, we just grabbed documents, our photo card, my child's toy, and the suitcase that was already packed. We sat in the car and drove straight away. Every day, Timor filled up the car with gasoline so we would be ready. We expected this to happen. We are from Donetsk. We have gone through this before.
COOPER (on camera): What do you tell a child about what is happening?
ANA: Adventure, just an adventure.
COOPER (voiceover): The kids think it is an adventure, but for Ana and Timor, it's more like a nightmare. It's the second time they've lost their home. In 2014, when Russia invaded, they lived in Donetsk and had to flee to Kharkiv. Now, they're displaced again.
ANA: They will never defeat us because this is our land. I just want the whole world to help so our kids don't die. Yesterday, I saw in the news that a baby died from thirst because his mom was crushed under the building. I cannot imagine this. I want the world to help us to stop it.
COOPER (voiceover): Timor has volunteered to fight. He may be called up any day now.
COOPER (on camera): You've taken a military course, but you've never fought. Are you worried about it? Are you scared?
TIMOR, FATHER OF EVA, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE (through translator): I am ready to defend my country.
COOPER (on camera): Ukraine will win.
TIMOR: Nobody can defeat us.
COOPER (voiceover): For now, Timor volunteers moving and packing supplies for soldiers on the frontlines.
COOPER (on camera): How do you both try to keep things normal for your children?
ANA: Simple, really, cartoons.
TIMOR: Cartoons, drawing, dancing.
[02:55:00]
ANA: Now, we are playing hide and seek so they can learn to hide when it will be needed. Maybe they will come here, too.
COOPER (on camera): You pretend everything is normal for them?
TIMOR: This place is not safe because the rockets can --
COOPER (on camera): The war can come here. When you go to fight, will your family stay here? TIMOR: Yes.
COOPER (on camera): OK. You don't want them to go to another country?
TIMOR: I love my country and my wife loves my country. We don't leave our motherland.
COOPER (voiceover): Like so many here, they plan to stay. One family determined not to flee anymore. Anderson Cooper, CNN, Lviv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And that is all the time we have this hour. I'm Michael Holmes. Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I will be back with much more from Lviv in just a moment.
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