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Russia Steps Up Offensive; President Biden Warns Russia Over Potential Use of Chemical Weapons. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 11, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Appreciate your time today on INSIDE POLITICS and throughout this very difficult week.

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Ana Cabrera, Anderson Cooper pick up our coverage right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Anderson Cooper is live in Lviv, Ukraine.

And it is day 16 of Russia's war on Ukraine. Moscow is expanding its offensive, and President Biden is giving a warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Your White House has said that Russia may use chemical weapons or create a false flag operation to use them.

What evidence have you seen showing that? And would the U.S. have a military response if Putin does launch a chemical weapons attack?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going to speak about the intelligence. But Russia would pay a severe price if they used chemical weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now, the U.S. has said that Russia has a chemical weapons program, in violation of international law.

Meanwhile, Russia is unleashing new attacks in the western part of Ukraine for the first time. This fireball is over the town of Lutsk. That's about 70 miles from the border with Poland. The regional governor says a Russian bomber had fired four missiles on the airport there, killing two people.

And on the outskirts of Dnipro, a missile strike damaged a school, a shoe factory and apartment building. At least one civilian was killed. Take a look at this news satellite imagery showing that 40-mile-long Russian convoy near Kyiv has largely dispersed. And according to Maxar Technologies, which supplied these images, all those tanks, the armored vehicles, all the artillery appeared to be regrouping after having been mostly stalled for the past week -- Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, Maxar are also captured this significant damage creeping ever closer to the capital.

In Kyiv's northwest suburbs, fuel storage tanks are seen on fire, and a warehouse supermarket and apartment building has been destroyed. NATO surveillance flights show Russia has been using Belarus to launch many of its air operations over Ukraine. The Russians are also trying to jam the radar of the NATO spy plane, we're told.

There's a lot to cover. CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House. Alex Marquardt is here in Lviv.

Let's talk more about Russia broadening its offensive.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's really of note, Anderson, because these are places that we haven't seen hit too hard in the past two weeks.

The vast majority of the areas that have been hit have been in the eastern part of the country, as well as in the south. So, Dnipro is very much in the center. And this is one of these indiscriminate attacks that we have been talking about, at least one person killed, according to local authorities, at a shoe factory.

We also saw a preschool and an apartment building that were also damaged. So this is the first time that that city, we understand, was hit. And then when you look farther west -- and we were woken up by air sirens earlier this morning, and that just goes to show how much concern and how much fear there is of what could come here.

So, to the north of us near the border with Poland, Lutsk, there was an airfield that was hit by four strikes, we understand, and two people were killed there. And then just below us, in an area called Ivano-Frankivsk, there was another airfield that was also hit.

The Russians saying that this was done with high-precision long-range weapons, which just -- which shows that there are no Russian troops in the area, but they are going after what they believe to be military targets. So they are creeping westwards. They are expanding this campaign.

That is going to cause a lot of fear and panic among the residents of Ukraine here in the west, among those who have fled west, but also among the neighboring countries, the Eastern European NATO countries, where we have seen Kamala Harris, the vice president, visiting for the past few days to really show American support and, as she says, say that the U.S. is really to defend -- ready to defend every inch of NATO territory, because we have heard these warnings from President Zelenskyy that it's not just about Ukraine.

There are concerns that, if President Putin is victorious here or makes progress here, that Eastern Europe, Europe could be next.

COOPER: There had been military analysts yesterday who were predicting possible Russian strikes or airfields in the west. Given all the talk about the possibility of Poland supplying fighter jets, which obviously doesn't seem to be happening right now because they offered them to the U.S. to supply to the Ukrainians, but that might be one reason behind the targeting of airfields in the west, the idea of, where would those planes end up landing?

MARQUARDT: Yes.

And this is very much in line with at least the stated goals of Russia, which is to go after military targets. They want to demilitarize Ukraine. That is one of the main demands that they been making in these several rounds of conversations that we have been hearing.

[13:05:04]

Things like Dnipro, attacks like the hospital in Mariupol, those are indiscriminate. Those are -- these are killing civilians, as they continue to deny that they are going after civilian targets.

But this is -- the concern now is, because there has been a stiff Ukrainian resistance on the ground, that there will be an increase in the airstrikes, in the artillery and the launch of missiles from ground-based missile systems, as well as dropping bombs from the air, because they have been -- the Russians have been so frustrated on the grounds, that the Russians could step up their aerial campaign, and not just against the areas that we have seen before, but wider targets as well all across the country.

COOPER: Yes, decimating cities.

Let's check in with Kaitlan.

Kaitlan, President Biden just spoke. Talk about what he said.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he's speaking to House Democrats.

And he seems to be reaffirming that U.S. forces will not going -- be going into Ukraine, Anderson. He's talking about supplying the Ukrainians with what they need to be able to defend themselves. Of course, that is something that we have seen repeatedly from Ukrainian officials talking about the tools that they need.

But the president seems to be saying that, no matter what happens, they are not sending U.S. forces in there. And, of course, this comes as we're hearing these repeated warnings from U.S. officials about a potential chemical weapons attack happening, including from the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations today, saying they do believe that is something Putin is potentially preparing to do.

But President Biden just now in this being pretty unequivocal, saying, on the idea that American planes and pilots will potentially go into Ukraine, he said, we will not fight the Third World War In Ukraine. If those U.S. forces went in, he said that is called World War III, so reaffirming what that response would be, Anderson.

And it comes after he said there would be a severe price for Putin to pay if he did conduct a chemical weapons attack in Ukraine. He did not say that that would be a military response, though. And the president seems to be standing by this position that he has held for several weeks now since this invasion started that U.S. forces won't be going into Ukraine.

And, Anderson, we should note this also comes as the president is moving to punish Putin in other ways today, saying that he wants to move to revoke Russia's status as a permanent normal trade relation -- relationship with the United States.

That's something that requires an act of Congress. We know that we could see that from Congress as soon as next week. But where the blow really comes is, the president says this is being done in coordination with the European Union.

And, basically, what that would do is allow countries to raise tariffs on Russian goods and be able to isolate them in a way that you have seen with other pariah states, like Cuba, like North Korea, that the president could then effectively use it in that way, and it comes as this effort to squeeze Putin, talking about their economy.

And just a few moments ago, as he was also making these comments about U.S. forces definitely not going into Ukraine, he talked about the fact that the Russian stock market has been closed, the stock exchange, ever since this invasion began. And he said that the moment, he believes, that it reopens, it will blow things up in their economy, and just predicting what this looks like from an economic perspective, but also saying, once again, the U.S. military is not going into Ukraine.

And, of course, that comes is we are talking about whether or not a chemical weapons attack could potentially happen.

COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan, thanks.

Very quickly, there have been a number of Russian generals now who we know have been killed in this conflict.

MARQUARDT: We just got word of the third just this week.

His name is Major General Andrei Kolesnikov. All of these three appear to have the same rank of major general, according to the Western defense officials that CNN has spoken with. There are around 20 of them in this country. Obviously, these are not junior officers or relatively lowly infantrymen.

These are senior officers. And the last two, at least, we understand, are pretty battle-hardened. They had experience in Syria and in Chechnya. And we're obviously seeing the same tactics unfold here.

COOPER: Yes.

MARQUARDT: So now we see these three generals who are part of what the U.S. believes are around 5,000 to 6,000 Russian soldiers who have been killed so far in their campaign. That number could be higher.

And, of course, the wounded could be multiple times that, as many as three times that.

COOPER: Yes.

Generals being killed shows a lot about the nature of the conflict here and the closeness of the fighting.

Alex Marquardt, thank you.

Let's get back to Ana in New York.

CABRERA: Thank you both. Stay safe there.

And now we're joined by CNN security analyst and former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.

Director Clapper, misinformation and lies have really fueled this conflict and justified Putin's actions. Just today, more lies, Russian diplomats going to the U.N., elevating false claims that the U.S. is working with Ukraine to develop chemical or biological weapons.

Is this Russia now setting the stage to use chemical weapons themselves? And is there anything to prevent them from doing it?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Ana, first, I think the Russians have been prepping the battlefield, so to speak, since actually before the invasion, where they were making various allegations about chemical weapons and partnering with the United States on chemical weapon research or whatever.

[13:10:08]

So -- and there's quite a litany of statements that various Russian officials or media have made about chemicals. So, what I think they're doing is kind of setting the stage for the potential use of chemical weapons. And it's my belief that they would employ them, particularly if they run into a lot of resistance when they finally get to the point of trying to march into Kyiv.

So I think they're just prepping everybody for that. And I think, given their history, they're not above using them.

CABRERA: Just today, Russia's defense minister told Putin that all is going according to the plan. Now, of course, there's a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise.

But it reminded me of a tweet I saw from Russia's former foreign minister this week. He said Putin likely overestimated the strength of his military because of corruption. And he claimed money that was intended to modernize Russia's military was actually stolen and then spent on mega-yachts, and that top military advisers, of course, weren't going to tell Putin that, so they reported lies to him instead.

Do you think that's true?

CLAPPER: Yes, I think there's a lot of deception here going on, I mean, given Putin's relative isolation, in fact, last couple of years, literal isolation.

And he is, to me the classic example the emperor has no clothes. And I think there's great reluctance to give him bad news or tell him things that he doesn't really want to hear. So I think there's a good bit of that. I think the much vaunted modernization of the Russian army has turned out to be pretty much somewhat of a Potemkin village.

The Russians have done terribly with planning and logistics and leadership. I think they have too many generals are in place because of party loyalty or whatever, rather than military competence. And that's kind of all coming home to roost now with the Russian performance.

CABRERA: So, going back to the information Putin himself is getting, what do you think is more dangerous, Putin taking action and making decisions based on accurate information in this war or bad information?

CLAPPER: Well, I think it's always bad -- it's always -- it's worse if you're living in a fantasyland when you're making the decisions, particularly something as heavy as this involving risk to his own troops, although it doesn't appear to me he cares too much about them.

So it's much -- it's always better if a policymaker, commander, whomever has accurate information. And it's not clear to me that he does.

CABRERA: So, if Russians are living in this alternative reality, there's no basic common agreement on the facts on the ground and the situation that is the truth, then how do you even begin to look for a diplomatic solution?

CLAPPER: Well, I think the first problem is, how do you create deterrence, if the person you're trying to -- the prime person you're trying to deter isn't getting the truth?

So -- and that carries over into the diplomatic realm. And we have seen evidence, rather recent evidence of this, with Lavrov's meeting with the Ukrainian foreign minister in Turkey, where he premises the whole discussion with these fantasies and phony allegations.

And so very difficult, in my mind, to have any sort of a meaningful diplomatic exchange when one side is off in fantasyland.

CABRERA: Dr. James Clapper, really appreciate it. Thank you very much for spending time with us.

Now, that infamous Russian convoy has dispersed, as Alex mentioned, but is it preparing for a bigger storm? Up next, we will discuss Russia's new moves with a U.S. general who has decades of battlefield experience.

Plus, how the Russian people are responding to the Kremlin's ridiculous lies and propaganda.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:56]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

In the past 24 hours, Russian airstrikes and shelling have ramped up in Ukraine. And U.S. officials have learned more about what type of munitions Russia is using. Many have been so-called dumb bombs. Those are not precision guided. And the effects of that tactic is possibly seen in the civilian casualties, at least 564 people killed so far, according to the U.N.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis is tracking all this for us.

What are you learning about Russia's arsenal in this war, Katie?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Ana, so U.S. intelligence and military officials who are closely tracking the mix of munitions that Russia is using in its assault on Ukraine aren't entirely sure why Russia is leaning more heavily on its arsenal of older, less sophisticated and less discriminate so-called dumb bombs, and less on its arsenal of precision-guided munitions that are capable of hitting a more narrow target.

There's a couple of reasons why this might be, according to the sources that we spoke to. It's possible, of course, that Russia is simply conducting a terrifying campaign designed to brutalize Ukrainian civil civilian populations and cities, wear down their morale.

[13:20:00]

It's also possible, Ana, though, that this confirms longstanding suspicion by some military analysts that Russia's arsenal of precision-guided munitions is relatively limited. According to one source that we spoke to, there are some signs that Russia essentially burned through its allocation of guided munitions in the early days of this campaign, and now is turning to its much larger arsenal of older, less sophisticated weaponry.

Now, of course, Ana, the bottom line here is that the true cost of this dynamic is being paid by Ukraine's schools, its hospitals, its civilian population.

CABRERA: It's all so devastating.

Katie Bo Lillis, thank you for your reporting.

Let's bring in retired Four-Star General Carter Ham. He's a former commander of all U.S. Army forces in Europe.

General, what do you make of Katie Bo's reporting just now?

GEN. CARTER HAM (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. AFRICA COMMAND: Well, Ana, I think it's right. I think it is both of the things that she talked about.

It is -- the use of indiscriminate weapons is, I think, intended to terrorize the civilian populace, weaken the Ukrainian government, in hopes that they will capitulate. And, secondly, I think it does indicate that the arsenal, the stocks of precision weapons that Russia may have is perhaps not as extensive as anticipated.

CABRERA: Let's talk more, then, about the next phase of this invasion.

We know that massive military convoy has dispersed, moved into tree- lined areas. We're also learning Russian armored military trains have been spotted moving through Ukraine. What does that signal to you?

HAM: Well, I think there's a couple of things that are likely to unfold in the coming days and perhaps weeks.

First, with regard to the convoy that we have all been watching for well over a week, now seeing that disperse, first, it's a little bit puzzling to me that has taken well over a week for that to happen. U.S. military personnel are taught in basic training that, when you stop, whether you're mounted or dismounted, you disperse to get greater concealment and to protect your force.

Why the Russians didn't do that initially is a little bit puzzling to me. But it may indicate that they do recognize that there is a threat to their forces, and they may be marshaling their forces, planning and preparing for the further encirclement of Kyiv.

And I think that's the first thing we should be watching for, is, are Russian forces able to extend to the south and west, to the south and east, to encircle Kyiv, cut it off -- in an attempt to cut it off from resupply? I think that's the first thing we should watch for.

CABRERA: We're looking at some video of the train that is coming in to Ukraine. And we're told these are, like, resupply equipment that's on there.

But what we're hearing from a senior NATO official is, that includes civilian trucks and cars that are coming in to try to replace some of these heavier trucks that have been lost to Ukrainian counterattacks. We have heard from Alex of the generals who have been killed in the battlefield, the Russian generals.

And yet, earlier today, Russia's defense minister told Putin in a televised Security Council meeting, all is going according to the plan.

From a battlefield standpoint, do you think this is going according to plan? HAM: Well, all I would say, Ana, is, if it's going according to the

Russian plan, it's a pretty bad plan.

Every indication is that the Russians expected to be able to move much more freely, much more rapidly, with far less opposition than they have encountered. And the resistance and the resolve of the Ukrainian forces and of the Ukrainian civilian populace I think has taken the Russians by surprise.

CABRERA: You say there are four things you're watching in the coming days. What are those?

HAM: Yes, so the first is that -- a potential encirclement of Kyiv by the Russian forces. I think that's key.

If Russia is able to do that, if they are able to cut off resupply to Kyiv, that becomes very problematic for the Ukrainian forces and Ukrainian resistance inside that very, very large city. And I do expect that Russia will try to encircle it, rather than try to occupy a city that size.

Secondly, I think it will be -- it's very interesting to watch, does Russia mobilize and deploy additional forces from Russia into Ukraine? They have got 120-ish-thousand, I think, is the latest number I saw. Do they up that number? Do they take forces from other places, other bases in Russia to bolster what could only be seen as lack of success so far?

[13:25:00]

That indicate -- that would indicate that the Russian senior leaders recognize that the plan is not going according to their expectations, and they need to reinforce it. But that also entails perhaps angering much of the Russian population, if they have to deploy more forces.

The third thing I think to watch is, do they further extend their air missile and artillery strikes to the west? We saw that today in the strikes in Lutsk, the airfield there. Do they extend those strikes, continue those strikes in the western part of the country, to, in fact -- to include perhaps even Lviv? That impedes the military resupply. It impedes the flow of internally displaced persons and potential refugees out of the country.

It exacerbates the humanitarian assistance. It'll be interesting to see if Russia does expand their strikes there. And, lastly, I think in the south, do they -- does Russia make a move on Odessa, thereby cutting off Ukraine from the Black Sea completely, and potentially to link up with Russian forces that are already in the contested area of Transnistria in neighboring Moldova?

CABRERA: All right, we will be watching with you.

Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us, General Carter Ham. It's good to have you here.

The reality for many Ukrainians who can't flee is, there's no food, no water, no heat in many communities, as Russian attacks intensify and trap them. But that's not the reality many Russians are seeing or even believing.

An inside look at this information war is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)