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U.N.: 2.5 Million People Have Fled Ukraine Since Russian Invasion; Pentagon Update on Russian Invasion of Ukraine. Aired 1:30- 2p ET

Aired March 11, 2022 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:40]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Well, the United Nations says that 2.5 million people have fled Ukraine since the Russia invasion. As many as 1.8 million are internally displaced.

Those who have fled have fled into neighboring countries, including Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Moldova and Romania.

CNN's Miguel Marquez have been tracking a number of refugees as they come over the border into Romania. He's about an hour south of the capital in Bucharest.

He joins us now along with a young refugee and her mom.

Miguel, what have you been seeing today?

MIQUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're with 31 of those 2.5 million refugees. This is a home of Romanians who have taken in 31 people right now. There are three more refugees coming. Over the last two weeks, they've taken in 61 people total.

This is Alyona and Olga.

Did I say that correctly?

Thank you.

You guys are from Kharkiv. How are you doing? You are here.

Alyona, you're 14 years old. Three weeks ago, you were a student. You wanted to study medicine. Did you ever think you'd be a refugee?

ALYONA BATOCHKA, REFUGEE FROM KHARKIV, UKRAINE, 14 YEARS OLD: No.

MARQUEZ: Did you ever think you'd be in this situation?

ALYONA BATOCHKA: I never thought that I would be here in another country. That was my whole family, my dad, my sister, my aunt's husband, now in Ukraine, and so it's really stressful.

MARQUEZ: What is that level of stress, of uncertainty? Do you know if you'll ever return home?

ALYONA BATOCHKA: I never feel more stressful.

MARQUEZ: Than this?

ALYONA BATOCHKA: Yes.

MARQUEZ: Olga, you and I were speaking earlier, you have a friend from childhood who is Russian. And when you told your friend that Kharkiv was being bombed, what did they say?

OLGA BATOCHKA, REFUGEE FROM KHARKIV, UKRAINE: He don't believe me, first of all, he said Olga, please back home, don't stay on the ground, all will be OK, nobody will kill civilities. It's all OK.

They don't, people in Russia, don't know what is happened in Ukraine. They know regular information. They have no true -- they don't know true about.

MARQUEZ: Do you blame your friend? Do you blame Vladimir Putin? Why could your friend not believe you?

OLGA BATOCHKA: Because he said that they do free to us. They do --

MARQUEZ: They're freeing you up?

OLGA BATOCHKA: Yes, yes.

But we are free people. We have a beautiful government, beautiful countries, beautiful cities. Now that all destroyed. And we have no houses. We have no families. We will start over. Life is a tool.

MARQUEZ: Do you think you will return home some day?

OLGA BATOCHKA: Yes, of course, I want and believe that we will, but at home, in my Kharkiv, it will be Ukraine.

[13:35:03]

MARQUEZ: You voted for Volodymyr Zelenskyy, yes?

OLGA BATOCHKA: Yes.

MARQUEZ: You like him. He is your chosen leader?

OLGA BATOCHKA: Yes, all our people choose Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We support him, we love him. And good luck to Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

MARQUEZ: Two weeks ago, your life was normal, you were a normal kid going to school. You have a cat named --

ALYONA BATOCHKA: Buba.

MARQUEZ: Buba. And your neighbors are feeding him back in Kharkiv. Where does your life go now? ALYONA BATOCHKA: I don't know. Maybe I go to school in Portugal, or

maybe I will learn online. I don't know. But I still want to dance, yes. I make sports. I dance in dancing team, a rock and roll --

MARQUEZ: Oh. Well done.

ALYONA BATOCHKA: And I want to do this.

MARQUEZ: All right.

And the folks that are helping these refugees out -- this is all free of charge, no one's charged you anything to be here, is that correct?

ALYONA BATOCHKA: Yes.

OLGA BATOCHKA: Yes, it's right.

MARQUEZ: You go on to Portugal because you have family there, which is -- people who have -- and the visa situation, to get to Portugal, and to stay there's all sorted out?

ALYONA BATOCHKA: Yes. We have no visas. But in Portugal, here is my sister with her husband and --

OLGA BATOCHKA: They will do for us.

ALYONA BATOCHKA: -- they can help us.

MARQUEZ: So you will have a place to go there.

And are they helping you sort out your paperwork here to get there as well?

ALYONA BATOCHKA: No, here, help us, volunteers, to do this.

MARQUEZ: Right. And then they'll get you to the airport when you need to go?

ALYONA BATOCHKA: Yes.

MARQUEZ: That's amazing.

So these guys are doing this all for free, basically. They're taking donations. If I could direct you to their Instagram page. It's Aluziva, A-L-U-Z-I-V-A, are the people who are taking care of them here.

They have eight volunteers here today. They have people round the clock to take care of these people.

They have constant laundry. There's people making borscht in the kitchen all day. The refrigerators are full of food. It's an army of people to keep these refugees fed and warm and sheltered on very cold winter nights.

So as horrible as things are in Ukraine right now, this gives you hope in humanity -- Anderson?

COOPER: This is one of the extraordinary things, Miguel. I'm so glad you're in that apartment where they have taken in so many people that we are seeing in Romania, in Moldova, in Poland.

People opening up their homes, and for complete strangers. And there's such gentleness and kindness in that -- what is a small act but is an enormous act of compassion.

Thank you so much, Miguel.

When we come back, we'll talk to a "New York Times" reporter about what that woman, Olga, was saying about her relatives not believing her, not believing what is happening.

We're going to talk to a "New York Times" reporter who has spoken to many people here in Ukraine who say the exact same thing about their loved ones in Russia who simply don't believe them about the horror of what's happening here.

We'll be right back.

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[13:43:11]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Welcome back. We are going to go straight to the Pentagon. This is the spokesperson, John Kirby, giving us an update on the situation in Ukraine.

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: -- we've got to watch out for.

Yes, Tara?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: John, the Ukrainian minister of defense reported earlier today that Russia launched two air strikes inside Belarus, to potentially drag Belarus into the war. Can the Pentagon confirm this?

And has there been non outreach or attempt to try and keep Belarus out of the war? You've mentioned -- or there have been missiles launched from within Belarus into Ukraine already.

KIRBY: Yes. We can't confirm these reports. Seen the open-source reporting on it, Tara, but we have nothing to corroborate that.

And I would just tell you that we haven't seen any indications that Belarusian troops or forces have moved inside Ukraine.

We did note that the president of Belarus made comments the other day, through state media, that he felt it was important for Belarusian forces to come to the defense of the rear of Russian forces should they be attacked, the supply line route if you will.

That's first time that he's ever said anything about Belarus perhaps getting involved. But no indications at this time that they have, or that that's in the offing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Separate topic. As these sanctions are gone into effect, you've started to see global food prices spike.

And there's concerns that, you know, this could raise additional risk of conflict in countries that are already facing hunger, such as Afghanistan and likewise.

Is the DOD looking at this? Is there a greater risk of global conflict because it will become that much harder to feed people in -- that already face great food insecurity?

[13:45:02]

KIRBY: The administration is obviously looking at the humanitarian crisis that this -- that this war of choice is causing and exploring -- excuse me -- let me try that again with English.

Exploring lots of opportunities to work inside the national community to alleviate that.

I know of no plans in DOD to augment or to prevent or to subside the effects of food insecurity. So I don't have any DOD role here to speak to.

But I do want to just pivot off, you know, one thing you had in your question, which was this risk of escalation.

And obviously, that is something that we're constantly concerned about, the risk of this conflict escalating beyond what it already is. And it's already dangerous enough inside Ukraine.

So, you know, to Court's (ph) questions about the things we're looking at and what we're monitoring, we're constantly concerned about the potential escalation here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I guess the question is just the overall trickle-down effects. You have this conflict inside Ukraine that's having global ripple effects.

And whether or not the Pentagon is taking a broader view of already hot zones, conflict zones and if this will make it worse because hunger becomes worse, access to food becomes worse.

KIRBY: Again, we haven't seen any -- I get where the question's going. Often times, when you have instability in one area, it can bleed into others in that region or without. I understand that.

I would tell you, broadly speaking, we're constantly looking at threats and challenges around the world. And we're not unmindful of the fact that threats and challenges do spill over and can cause instability. And therefore insecurity in places that aren't the origin of the conflict.

So we're obviously taking up a global view. We do that every day. We're certainly doing that in light of what's going on in Ukraine. I don't know -- well, put it another way. We haven't seen any -- any

specific indications that there are going to be any imminent insecurity issues, challenges, threats in other regions as a result of this, that we're going to have to address.

I think that's what you were trying to get at. I think it's too soon to know that right now, too soon to tell.

But obviously, we're watching clearly because of the potential for escalation here.

And I just want to say, if I can again, it's a war of choice.

Mr. Putin can stop this war right now, by agreeing to a diplomatic solution, or at least just stopping the bombing, and the death, and the destruction that he is causing against a nation that provoked nobody, against a nation that presented no threat to Russia.

All of this is by his choice, and all that blood is on his hands, and he could stop it right now if he wanted to.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: John, there's a discussion that some NATO allies might send SU-300s to Ukraine. Is the U.S. involved in these discussions? And will the U.S. give a green light if some allies move forward with that?

KIRBY: I have talked before that sovereign nations are making decisions for themselves about how to help Ukraine. And we respect those sovereign decisions. It's not about the United States giving green lights or having vetoes here.

What I will tell you, and I said this the other day, we are working with allies and partners to help get the kinds of capabilities that we know that Ukrainians need and are using very well inside Ukraine, get more of that stuff to them.

Some of that material we have and we are providing. Some of that material we don't have but we know others have and we're helping coordinate that as well.

And that security assistance is flowing, even in just the last 24 hours.

I'm not going to talk about individual systems. You know that. I haven't done that yet, and I'm not going to start today.

But we are working hard to canvass other allies and partners that we know could possibly help.

And it's really up to those nations to make these decisions. And then to speak to them if they want to speak to them. They can do that. And we have to respect that.

What's important, and what I don't want you to walk away not understanding, is that we're having these conversations actively. We are helping coordinate the assistance as best we can. And we're going to continue to talk to the Ukrainians about what they need to better defend. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Another question.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We have seen the batteries along the border with Ukraine. I know you won't get into details. But could you tell us if the rules of engagement have changed since the war began in that part --

KIRBY: We don't talk about rules of engagement.

[13:50:02]

David?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A couple of questions.

Can you update us on any uses of the deconfliction line? And has Secretary Austin attempted to communicate with his counterpart, the Russian defense minister?

And you just said you are helping coordinate assistance. Does that include providing airlift from NATO countries to transshipment points?

KIRBY: Deconfliction line, David, no specific interactions to speak to. In other words, no content has been needed. But we do test it once or twice a day. And that continues.

And thus, far with maybe only a couple of exceptions, the Russians have picked up on the other end. And we know that they know what the ring tone is and they'll pick up and answer. And so we know it is functional.

I have no conversations between Secretary Austin and Minister Shoregood (ph) to speak to. And I have no expectation that that is going to change any time soon.

And then on the helping coordinate, I don't want to get into too much detail here.

I think the coordination is in two planes. One it is in the conversations with allies and partners about these capabilities, and their willingness to provide.

And then on another plain, it's about helping with the logistics. And it really -- it really varies from country to country and capability to capability.

But we are trying to help with that coordination function.

And the Brits have been, too. In fact, they've been very vocal about their efforts to help coordinate and work through that and we're grateful for their assistance.

Jim? UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two questions, really.

The Russians have occupied a lot of area in Ukraine. Do you know if the -- if the Ukrainians, is there any assessment if they've gone into a guerilla war in these occupied areas?

And a separate question. I imagine the Russians have to have captured Ukrainian servicemembers. Are they treating them as captured POW with Geneva Convention protections?

KIRBY: I don't have any information about captured soldiers on either side. I really don't. And I certainly couldn't get into -- into how they're being treated.

I mean, obviously, we're not involved in this war. But our expectation would be that -- that both parties would abide by Geneva Convention requirements.

And to treat any soldiers that are captured humanely and in accordance with the rule of law. That is the United States expectation as well as so many other nations.

But I don't have any information about what that looks like in terms of numbers and what that -- what that treatment actually is.

And on your question about guerilla tactics, Jim, I - again, I would let the Ukrainians describe for themselves the manner for which they are fighting.

But they are fighting and fighting skillfully, bravely and quite creatively.

And the fighting isn't just by the armed forces. I mean, average citizens, you've seen it for yourself, picking up arms, getting arms given to them by the government and learning how to use them and using them.

And some of the resistance has been nonviolent. You've seen it for yourself. With crowds blocking city streets and actually stopping in their tracks some Russian units.

So the resistance resides on many levels and it is quite inspiring. Whether you call that guerilla tactics or not, I don't know. And I don't even know if it is worth having that debate over.

They are resisting and they are defending. And we'll continue to look for ways to help them do that better going forward.

Barb?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Could I divert for a minute to a North Korea question?

Now that several parts of the administration have talked about your public announcement, could you tell us why the Pentagon decided to take the seemingly unprecedented step of making a public statement, being sure that the North Koreans would see it, that you were going to increase intelligence collection on them against their ICBM program?

[13:55:05]

Why would you make that public statement letting the North Koreans know you're going to collect -- increase your collection of classified intelligence?

What is the state of your current concern about how close they are to an ICMB?

And is this disclosure, this candor about a potential adversary, is this potentially a lesson learned from the Russia situation, put everything you know out there as a -- hoping it will be a deterrent?

KIRBY: Who just did --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That was me. Sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

(LAUGHTER)

KIRBY: Of course, you do.

There's a lot there.

Look, I think I said in my statement, we're -- we made these revelations public.

We announced some of the additional NSR and enhanced readiness because we believe it is important to -- to call out the behavior that we've been seeing. Particularly in the last few weeks.

And that we believe it is important for the entire international community to speak with one voice about the concerns that we know they have over DPRK's continued ballistic missile program.

I'm not going to get into any more details in terms of the assessments we've made. It is all out there in the public. I won't go beyond my public statements.

But clearly, these continued tests are a provocation. They are a violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions.

And they give us as well as so many other nations added concern about the kinds of capabilities that the north is trying to develop.

And so, again, we feel it was important to make that case and to lay it out there.

And as for whether it is a lesson learned, I would be careful drawing a direct bright line between these revelations about this program and revelations that we made early on, even before the invasion of Ukraine. When we believe that information should be in the public, we're going

to put it in the public. We're going to -- we're going to state it as best we can.

Now obviously, there's stuff that we know we're not going to talk about. But we believe that calling them out publicly for these tests was the right thing to do.

STARR: I want to ask one follow-up on the deconfliction line.

Two things. I take it they have never called the United States. It is all been you calling them, is that right?

KIRBY: To my knowledge, it has been us using it to check in once or twice a day.

STARR: With them? OK.

And you said that they know your ring tone. So could you tell us what -- the ring tone the U.S. selected it.

KIRBY: It was a poor attempt at being -- it was a poor attempt at humor. I did not mean that we have an exact ring tone here. Just that we know, they know how to use the system.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.

John, you mentioned the secretary to NATO. What kind of things is he going to be discussing with the NATO partners?

And we have been talking about the NATO response force being activated and potentially some U.S. forces would be dedicated to it.

What is the current count of how many U.S. personnel who are actively participating in the name of the response?

KIRBY: Again, we're still working that through with NATO. What the response force would look like, be composed of and where it would go. So I don't have any source requirements to speak to today.

And I'm sorry, you had another question?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes. What about, what exactly is the tone of the meetings that he'll have with counterparts in Brussels next week actively seeking?

KIRBY: Well, I think, this second defense minister now, in light of this issues, comes at a critical time. That is three weeks into this conflict.

And I don't know what things will look like next week. But obviously, we can expect the defense ministers to talk seriously about what NATO is doing to better shore up its defenses.

And making sure that we all have a common sight picture of the threat environment and what needs to be done again to meet our Article 5 commitments.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So, like, is there an agenda? Is there something specifically to the agenda with regards to Ukraine?

KIRBY: I would let NATO and the secretary-general speak to -- it is his defense ministerial. I don't want to get ahead of his agenda. That's really for him to speak to.

[13:59:58]

The secretary is pleased to go in person and be there to meet with other defense ministers, whoever is going to be there.

And we know that there's a lot to talk about. There's an awful lot going on inside of the alliance.