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Two Persons Killed in Dnipro and Lutsk's Latest Strike; Russian Forces Getting Near to Kyiv; Russian Convoy Ambushed Near Ukraine's Capital; Russian Convoy Now Dispersed in the East; People Trapped in Mariupol; E.U. Leaders Meeting in Versailles; No Positive Outcome from Russia and Ukraine Talks; Russian Forces Moving In On Kyiv From The East; Call Russia Urges Russian Speakers To Fight Misinformation; IAEA, Ukraine, Russia Ready To Work On Nuclear Plants Safety; Russia Holds Two Of Ukraine's Nuclear Power Facilities; Finding Solace In Music. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired March 11, 2022 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Hello and welcome, everyone to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes coming to you live from Lviv in Ukraine.
And we begin with breaking news. Another Russian air strike has reportedly hit civilian targets, this one in the central Ukrainian city of Dnipro. Ukraine state emergency service says one person was killed in the strike near a preschool and apartment building and a shoe factory.
And adviser to Ukraine's president says Dnipro is under attack. He also reports powerful explosions in the western city -- of Lutsk and Ivano-Frankivsk. The mayor of Lutsk says one person was killed in an attack on a military airfield there.
Meanwhile, Russian forces appeared to be moving closer to the capital Kyiv with a concerted push from the east. Heavy fighting reported in several towns near the Ukrainian capital. Here Ukrainian forces trying to free a town that is currently being occupied by the Russians. The fighting as you are about to hear is intense.
And we have these dramatic pictures to bring you. Ukrainian forces claim they have destroyed a Russian tank regiment and killed the commander. This is just north of Kyiv. That the Russian massive Russian convoy you might remember we have been reporting on just north of the capital, well, that's been largely dispersed to where is yet unclear. Some vehicles appeared to be taking cover in forests and tree line areas.
Now Ukraine is pushing to get more civilians out of the war zone. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reporting about 100,000 civilians have been evacuated from some of the hardest hit areas in the past two days. The humanitarian corridors in Ukraine have supposedly been opened for
more than an hour now. But Ukraine's president has said the corridors were not open for the city of Mariupol.
Oren Liebermann with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Russia's siege in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol is only growing more devastating. Massive craters from Russian attacks. The city digging mass graves for what the deputy mayor says are at least 1,300 civilian deaths.
The Red Cross says hundreds of thousands are without food, water, heat, power, and medical care. Russian forces shell civilian infrastructure like this maternity hospital which Russia denies.
Local authorities accused Russia of bombing a humanitarian corridor out of the city. The U.S. ambassador to the U.N. now saying this unequivocally about Russian actions.
LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: They constitute war crimes. They are attacks on civilians. That cannot be justified by any - in any way whatsoever.
LIEBERMANN: A high-level diplomatic meeting between the foreign ministers of Russia and Ukraine failed to bring results.
DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I came here with a humanitarian purpose. To walk out from the meeting was the decision to arrange a humanitarian corridor in and from Mariupol. Unfortunately, Minister Lavrov was not in a position to commit himself to it.
LIEBERMANN: The diplomacy has done nothing to stop the war. The Russian foreign minister today even making the extraordinarily false claim that Russia didn't attack Ukraine as the invasion enters its third week.
Ukraine is claiming a victory in the north. These images showing what they say a defeated Russian tank regiment northeast of the capital Kyiv. The local government says there's heavy fighting around the city. And a senior defense official says Russian forces have drawn about three miles closer to the capital.
On the Black Sea, the port city of Odessa is preparing for a fight. The regional military accused a Russian ship of firing in the sky over the city.
UNKNOWN (through translator): I can see what's happening in the country. And I don't want Russian troops to take our city. We are trying hard to set up a force to resist them.
LIEBERMANN: Russia pushing the debunk conspiracy theory that the U.S. is funding bioweapon labs in Ukraine. The U.S. intelligence community said they've seen no evidence of Ukraine developing any weapons of mass destruction.
AVRIL HAINES, U.S. DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: This influence campaign is completely consistent with longstanding Russian efforts to accuse the United States of sponsoring bio weapons work in former Soviet Union.
LIEBERMANN: The U.S. and some NATO allies warn that such accusations by the Kremlin may indicate Russia plans on using the weapons themselves.
LIZ TRUSS, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: There is now talk of the use of chemical weapons. We've seen Russia do that before.
[03:04:57]
LIEBERMANN: Vice President Kamala Harris is now in Poland after the collapse of a potential deal to ship MiG-29 Fighter Jets through U.S. bases to Ukraine. Harris announcing additional humanitarian funding for civilians affected by the war.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The United States is absolutely prepared to do what we can and what we must.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIEBERMANN (on camera): Ukraine is still pushing to get those MiG-29 Fighter Jets from Poland and from other countries whether it comes directly or through the United States. So, there's still political pressure on that. but defense officials here have repeatedly pointed out that Ukraine has operational fighter jets and they're not flying them in significant number of sorties.
The weapons and the systems that kept Ukrainian air space a danger to the Russians that have generally kept Russian aircraft out of Ukrainian air space have been antiaircraft missiles and systems not Ukrainian aircraft. And that's a point that we've heard repeatedly here. As well as the fact that transferring MiG- 29s from other countries to Poland has a low gain because it wouldn't be used all that much by Ukrainian air force, but a high risk of escalation with Russia.
Oren Liebermann, CNN at the Pentagon.
HOLMES: And joining me now, Luke Harding is a foreign correspondent for The Guardian. He is also the author of the book "Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia's Attack on the West."
He went to Mariupol before the war to see how the city was preparing for a Russian invasion. Have a look at part of the film.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNKNOWN: Recently, Putin stated in an article that Ukraine and Russia are one nation. He stated that, is it true?
UNKNOWN: Since when can you believe Putin's words? Putin said that there were no Russian forces in Crimea. Putin said that there were no Russian forces in the Donbas. Putin can say many things.
UNKNOWN: What is going to happen? The whole world is watching.
UNKNOWN: Either way, Ukraine will be fighting for its independence and territories. With Europe or without, there aren't any other options.
UNKNOWN: We don't have a choice.
LUKE HARDING, FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT, THE GUARDIAN: Despite the patriotism and defiance on display, the Ukrainian army is outgunned and outnumbered should a Russian invasion occur. But moral is high. The soldiers are ready to fight. There's no doubt Vladimir Putin forces would meet resistance and killing from civilians. Ukrainians say they are determined to defend their home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And Luke Harding joins me now here on set in Lviv. It's great to have you with us. Let's talk more about Mariupol having just heard part of the film you made there. You spent time there before the invasion. You know the city well. What are you hearing from people in there now?
HARDING: Well, I was speaking to the deputy mayor, Sergei Orlov a couple days ago who described conditions as medieval. He says they are in a continuous shelling and attack from Russian artillery from Russian aviation. Their people are sheltering in basements. They've run out of food and in many cases, people are melting snow to drink. And the death toll is about 1,200 people. They have started digging a mass grave on the outskirts of the city. And really, really, Michael, it's apocalyptic there.
HOLMES: Yes, he's saying 400,000 people are still there, too.
HARDING: Yes, 400,000 people. About 50,000 children.
HOLMES: Wow.
HARDING: Three thousand babies. There's no formula milk, there are no nappies. People are terrified. I mean, it's completely barbarous. And also, as we've seen attempts to set up a humanitarian corridor to get some of these people out have failed because the Ukrainian authorities say of continuous Russian attack and bombardment.
HOLMES: You know, it was interesting. Because I'm watching your film and people can watch it online on The Guardian web site. But you know, what was striking about that was you talked about how it was a place in the article, a place where there was a normality of sorts before all of this. And you describe, you know, a city diverse and flourishing. Cafes and restaurants. Give us a sense of then then and now. HARDING: Yes. When I was there, I mean, Mariupol is always been a
front-line town. It's on the border with pro-Russian separatists.
HOLMES: Yes.
HARDING: There's been fighting going on nearby. But the town is modern, it's European, it's flourishing. Or it was. It's a port. I had dinner there a few weeks before the invasion. People were dancing and relaxing. Just like you and me. It was normal life.
HOLMES: Yes.
HARDING: And now of course, it's just this hell scape.
HOLMES: And what -- judging from what we have seen in there, what's going to look like after this?
HARDING: I think -- I think Mariupol is going to be like Aleppo. Do you remember the Syrian city which is bombarded.
HOLMES: Grozny.
HARDING: Or Grozny and Chechnya or possibly even Leningrad. I mean, there are so many historic parallels here. But I don't see a political strategy. I just see a destroy and pulverize regardless of the human cause.
HOLMES: To what end? This is the thing I don't understand. You pulverize all of these places. To what end?
HARDING: That's a great question. I mean, even if Russia kind of majestic declares a military victory in Ukraine. You say what happens then?
[03:10:02]
Because every Ukrainian I speak to loathes Vladimir Putin, loathes what's happened here. And you can anticipate resistance going on not just for months or weeks but years and years. Way into the future.
HOLMES: Insurgencies traditionally do last for years and you can see -- certainly see that happening. I was here in 2014 for the Maidan in Kyiv and the I went to Crimea. I was there when the little green men came in. And what is not surprising but striking is the unity of the Ukrainian people. Speak to that. That sort of fierce maidan patriotism and, you know, and the whole Maidan thing was about kicking out a pro- Russian president, too.
HARDING: Yes, yes. I mean, it's been an incredible few weeks. I mean, I think it's consolidated Ukraine as a country. I mean, it had divisions before but those have been overcome. And of course, the stand out figure from this conflict is President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
HOLMES: Yes.
HARDING: I mean, you look at his videos, his addresses. He's still in Kyiv. He's leading the fight against Russian invasion. And he's an incredibly brave figure. He's become almost the most, one of the most famous presidents in the world. And if he can survive this crisis, I'm sure he'll be reelected and you know, the question for him is, can he hold his country together in the face of the attack from Putin.
HOLMES: You're such an interesting journalist in all this. You were based in Moscow. You speak fluent Russian, you got kicked out of the country. And to that point, you know, you know the man, and you the studied the man. You have written about the man. Do you think Putin underestimated not just the Ukrainian military but the Ukrainian people? Was he getting bad advice?
HARDING: I think he fell victim to his own kind of myth. He seemed convinced that Ukraine was run by fascists. But ordinary Ukrainians would welcome Russian liberation. And of course, the reverse has happened. These tanks have come in and Ukrainian soldiers have tried to blow them up with the support of a local population.
And so I think he gravely miscalculated. I don't think now he has strategy. But he lives in this weird bubble, this weird cocoon. I'm not sure people are telling him even now what's really happening on the ground.
HOLMES: Wow. I mean, that is frightening, because you know, he's not the type of person to give -- back down, is he? And so, you know, that's a worrying aspect. What could he do then if he feels that he's in a corner.
HARDING: I mean, he's deeply paranoid. He's conspiratorial. He hates the west. He's been prepared to sacrifice Russia's entire economy because of this --
HOLMES: Yes.
HARDING: -- adventure. If you can call it that. And yes, we don't know what's -- what's going to happen next, and I think it's alarming time.
HOLMES: Luke Harding, a pleasure to have you on. Now you can check out Luke's material on The Guardian web site. You're staying on and you're continue reporting. Fascinating. Great to have your insights, Luke.
HARDING: Thank you.
HOLMES: You know the story very, very well.
All right. Now, we'll take a break. When we come back, while bombs explode in Ukraine, European Union leaders are uniting to counter the Russian invasion. How far are they willing to go? We'll have that.
And also, fighting led to a fire at a Ukrainian nuclear plant. You remember last week? Well, now Russia and Ukraine are reportedly ready to make sure that doesn't happen again. We'll be right back.
[03:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEP BORRELL, E.U. FOREIGN POLICY CHIEF: Putin believed that they were going to conquer Ukraine, he failed. He believed that he was going to divide us, he failed. He believed that he was going to weaken the Trans-Atlantic relationship, and he failed, now he has to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The E.U.'s foreign policy chief there taking a swipe at the Russian president and predicting his failure in Ukraine. Well, right now, European Union leaders are gathering in Versailles in France for the second day of their summit which has, of course been hijacked by the Russian invasion.
Ukraine and several other former eastern bloc countries have applied for E.U. membership, but there are signs it will not be granted just yet.
CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is standing for us by in Antalya in Turkey where the Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers met. But let's start with our Melissa Bell who is covering that E.U. summit live from Paris for us. And Melissa, so what can we expect now of these talks in Versailles?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is really all about Europe showing its unity, trying to come together to create an idea of sovereign -- a sovereign Europe. That is the plan behind the French presidency holding this summit. The first of its rotating presidency at the helm of the European Council. That has been Emmanuel Macron's plan all along.
Of course, this is also, all about Ukraine. Europe felt -- feels that it's been remarkably quick, Michael, in sanctioning Russia and helping Ukrainians, and standing firm behind President Zelenskyy. Now, they want to go further and try to deal with the fallout, the macroeconomic fallout of all this together as a Europe of 27, as a block in a way that they never have before.
So, he wants to use this as an impetus to come together. Of course, the thorny question of Ukrainian accession to the European Union, poses itself, you know at the end of February, Kyiv asked formerly to join the European Union, asking in fact that its -- that the process be fast-tracked.
Now what we learned yesterday, we knew of course that there were divisions within Europe about whether this process which requires a certain number of getting through hoops could be fast-tracked or not. In the end, the idea seems to be that the council has very speedily passed on the request of the commission. But that that, we're being told, could take years.
Have a listen to what the Dutch prime minister, one of those leading the charge against speeding up the process too far had to say at last night's first day of summit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, DUTCH PRIME MINISTER: There is a request for candidate membership from Ukraine and that is now in process, and we have fast- tracked the -- sending it home to the commission earlier this week by the council, that is one. But it will take time. Months, maybe years before you get to anything.
[03:20:09]
BELL: So, months, maybe years before Ukraine can actually join the E.U. And yet those are European leaders who are very much in favor of it joining quickly also sent out messages via Twitter and so on saying, look, this is the first day of a new Europe where Ukraine has been told it will be part of the European Union.
So, there are both readings of it. The fact is, it's going to take some time, but what Europeans wanted to say from Versailles today is it is going to happen, Michael.
HOLMES: All right, Melissa Bell, thank you so much. Jomana Karadsheh in Turkey. There was -- I won't say high hopes but people were heartened that there is going to be this meeting at the foreign minister level in Antalya. Nothing really came of it, did it?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look, Michael, there was no ceasefire agreement that some had hoped could potentially come out of these talks. But, you know, we've heard officials saying that they are going into these meetings without these high expectations. I mean, the Turkish foreign minister coming out saying that look, no miracle was going to come out of a 90-minute meeting. But it's a start, and a very significant step for Turkish officials.
You know, President Erdogan describing this as a diplomatic victory in a phone call with President Biden yesterday. Turkish officials, the president, his foreign minister have been really working hard for the past few weeks to try and bring both sides together at a high-level, to try to get them to the negotiating table to start talking.
And they managed to do this, you know, even with the dire humanitarian situation on the ground and the fighting that's ongoing, they still managed to get them to start talking. But Turkey is not going to stop there.
You know, we heard from officials here, President Erdogan saying, look, this is potentially going to open the door, he believes, to talks towards a permanent ceasefire. Turkey wants to bring both leaders, President Putin and President Zelenskyy together for talks.
They have been really working hard. We know President Erdogan has brought this up in his phone calls between with both Presidents Putin and Zelenskyy, and we've heard from the Turkish foreign minister saying that President Putin told President Erdogan that he is not opposed to the ideas of talks in principle. But there still a lot of work that are still going on behind the
scenes by Turkey trying to push for this. We know that the Ukrainians have said that President Zelenskyy is open to diplomacy, open to these talks.
So, you know what, Michael, no matter how many meetings they have at different levels everyone realizes there is only one man whose decision will influence what is going on in the ground. And if there's any sort of agreement that is going to be reached, it would have to be the decision of Vladimir Putin.
HOLMES: Indeed. Jomana, I suppose meeting is not better than not meeting. Jomana Karadsheh in Antalya, Melissa Bell there in Paris, our thanks to you both.
All right, we're going to take a break. when we come back, Ukraine is seeing more attacks in just the past little while, and a regiment of Russian tanks ambushed by Ukrainian fighters outside Kyiv. More on the breaking news just ahead.
[03:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Welcome back. Russian air strikes hitting more civilian targets today according to Ukrainian officials. The state emergency service reporting at least one person has been killed in the central city of Dnipro. Authorities say the strike hit a preschool, an apartment building, and a shoe factory.
An adviser to Ukraine's president says Dnipro is under attack. He also reports powerful explosions in the western cities of Lutsk and Ivano- Frankivsk. The mayor of Lutsk says one person was killed there.
Meanwhile, heavy fighting reported in several towns near Kyiv. Russian forces appeared to be moving closer to the Ukrainian capital with a new offensive from the east.
All right, I want to bring in now Ukrainian TV host Masha Efrosinina. She is an activist. She's also been bringing Ukrainian stories to the world. It's great to have you here.
I'm just -- I want to get your sense. We saw what happened in Mariupol, the maternity hospital.
MASHA EFROSININA, UKRAINIAN TV HOST & ACTIVIST: Yes.
HOLMES: We saw what's happening in Kharkiv, and all these other cities. As a Ukrainian, can you believe what is happening to your country right now?
EFROSININA: I can't believe this for three -- for three weeks, of course not.
HOLMES: Yes. EFROSININA: I know this hospital in Mariupol, you know. My foundation was bringing their different medicine there. I know the staff they are very perfect and very progressive people. I cannot believe that I hear now that it was empty, and was occupied by Azov. I can't believe this.
HOLMES: Yes, yes. We're talking just before we came back on air, and talking about how, what were you doing three weeks ago?
EFROSININA: On the 23rd of February, I was shooting my show, entertainment show, it's like a comic one. I came very, very -- I came out about 23 o'clock p.m., and I was talking with my husband who was very tired, he said maybe tomorrow we should -- we should get some -- some staff with us, our passport documents.
[03:30:09]
I feel -- I feel -- not good about this. Maybe we should get our children. I said I'm very tired, they're promising this war since the 16th.
In Kyiv it was absolutely calm.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Normal.
EFROSININA: Normal. The show we were shooting the full-packed audience, was about 1,000 people in the audience. And everything was OK, and in the morning my husband --
HOLMES: And here we are now.
EFROSININA: Yes. And here we now.
HOLMES: Yeah, it must be -- Russian is your native tongue, right?
EFROSININA: Absolutely.
HOLMES: You have family in Russia?
EFROSININA: Yes.
HOLMES: You have family in Crimea? What is the relationship with them? What do they think of this invasion?
EFROSININA: Nobody called, nobody texted me. My aunt, my uncle in St. Petersburg. All of my nephews, my sisters, brothers, nobody unfortunately.
HOLMES: They are supporting Putin?
EFROSININA: Of course. I don't see any other explanation.
HOLMES: How does that make you feel?
EFROSININA: This is tragedy. I'm crying, you know, now I think I don't even have tears. All this time I'm trying to cry when my children don't see me. In the bathroom I'm crying, crying. Then I sit, I turn on my telephone and they are making video messages to all of the Russian subscribers, Russian people that can see me in any kind of social media.
HOLMES: And to that point, I was just about to ask about that. I mean, you know, Russia is very well-known here in Ukraine, a real public figure in a way. And you are getting these messages to Russians in Russia. What are you saying to them?
EFROSININA: The first days I was crying just of war. I'm just crying to all of my colleagues, all of the influencers, all of the artists that I know. Singers, just talk. Just talk. It is impossible. We are dying, people are dying. Rockets and shots are everywhere. Just stop talking. Silence.
Then I started to return to Russian people, because I had in my social media, I had about 15 percent of Russian subscribers. Russian is my native language. I speak Russian. All of my career was in Russian and I said that I do not need to be safe. You save Russian people, don't save me. Because I'm OK.
I said to Russian people, you are going to slavery, you will be poor. You will be under the bubble. Just go to the streets, go to the streets, we had my (inaudible) 2014, there were millions of people. We did what we have now, we are not slaves. Nobody, you know this about 5,000 people came to the --
HOLMES: What is your -- I mean, when you think about what Vladimir Putin has done. It seems he does not understand the Ukrainian people. Did he think he was going to come in here and people would accept it? I mean, people here have been against the Russian government or pro- Russian governments. They've thrown out pro-Russian presidents in the past. What will the Ukrainian people continue to do? There is great unity here.
EFROSININA: They will fight, Michael. Ukrainian people will fight. Ukrainian people, men and women will fight. We will never forgive this.
HOLMES: Your husband joined up didn't he?
EFROSININA: Yes. Yes. I mean, my husband and all friends, all of the men. My husband could not get to this -- in English,
HOLMES: The recruiting? Yeah.
EFROSININA: Recruiting, for a couple of days. Because there are a lot of people wanting to do this. Desiring to do this. And I'm very afraid.
HOLMES: Yes. Ukrainian people will continue to fight. Marsha, we will leave it there.
Marsha Efrosinina?
EFROSININA: Efrosinina.
HOLMES: I have it the first time.
EFROSININA: Yes, you have it.
HOLMES: Great to have you on. I really appreciate it. A real public figure here in a great voice for the Ukrainian people.
Alright. Now, a Lithuanian base project seeking to inform Russians about the invasion of Ukraine, one person at a time. The initiative called -- named Call Russia. It is inviting Russians speakers like Marsha to make random phone calls to people in Russia and tell them about Moscow's invasion.
Now the projects organizers have compiled a database of 40 million phone numbers of Russians. And a guide on what to say to them. All in an effort to bypass state propaganda and misinformation. And the blackouts on the truth in the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDMUNDAS JAKILAITIS, CO-FOUNDER OF CALL RUSSIA INITIATIVE: People in Russia, they live in total blackout of free and independent information. Majority of people do not use any independent sources of information in Russia. So, Call Russia could be the only option for people in Russia to get any alternative information. That they used to have in Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[03:35:21]
HOLMES: Now so far, the group says volunteers have called some 32,000 Russians earlier this week. But they say that it has not been easy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMAS, VOLUNTEER AT CALL RUSSIA INITIATIVE: Russians are kind of isolated. They are unwilling to talk. And so most of the calls were just rejected on some pretext that they do not have time. They are not interested. They do not want to talk. Or that they don't know anything. Or they do not want to know anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now last week, the Russian government passed a law imposing a 15 year jail term for anyone found to be in their view deliberately spreading what they say is fake news. Now, that for several Russian independent news and foreign media outlets to halt their operations in Russia.
That will do it from Lviv in Ukraine for the moment, let us toss it back to Kim Brunhuber in Atlanta. Kim?
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Alright. Thanks so much, Michael. Fighting near a Ukrainian nuclear plant sent shivers across Europe, now a possible nuclear safety deal is reportedly getting some traction, that is ahead, stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[03:40:00]
BRUNHUBER: Russia and Ukraine are said to be ready to work on a deal that would ensure the safety of Ukraine's nuclear power plants. That is the word from the U.N.s Atomic Energy agency. Following Thursday's meetings with the two countries foreign ministers in Turkey.
But Ukraine says it has lost all communication with its Chernobyl plant, which is held by Russians. The Russians are also in charge of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, which caught on fire during a Russian attack. Which brings fears that more fighting near nuclear plants could lead in the word of Ukraine's top nuclear executive, to a disaster.
Nina Dos Santos reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): First, Russia seized Chernobyl, site of the world's worst nuclear meltdown. A week later, it was Zaporizhzhia. Europe's largest nuclear plant. Now, with power cut from Chernobyl and more than 200 plant workers held hostage, alarm bells are ringing.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): This was terror at a new level. Ukraine has 15 nuclear plants and the Russian military has forgotten Chernobyl and the world's tragedy.
RAPHAEL GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: We cannot go on like this. There has to be clear understanding. Clear commitments not to go anywhere near nuclear facility when it comes to nuclear -- to military operations.
DOS SANTOS: Some have called the targeting of such sensitive infrastructure a war crime.
Do you think that these nuclear plants are going to be targeted specifically?
TARAS KUZIO, POLITICAL, ECONOMIC AND SECURITY AFFAIRS EXPERT: They are extremely callous. They do not give a damn about civilian casualties. But, I would be surprised if they were going to deliberately target with missiles or artillery our nuclear power plants. Although, you know, with a sociopathic President Putin, anything is possible.
JOEL RUBIN, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: It is energy extortion, nuclear energy extortion in this case. And it is also an extortion of the Ukrainian people, because it is going to harm their ability to gain -- have electricity. This is a diabolic maneuver by Vladimir Putin.
DOS SANTOS: Ukraine is home to 15 nuclear facilities, with two taken already, Russian forces are now approaching Ukraine's second largest nuclear site, (inaudible), in Mykolaiv Oblast.
UNKNOWN: They are being targeted as a means to control the power supply to Ukrainian cities and towns. As a way of intern controlling all aspects of Ukrainian society. Trying to put a stranglehold and a squeeze on a Ukrainian civilians.
DOS SANTOS: Nuclear power makes up almost a quarter of Ukraine's overall energy mix, after coal and natural gas. Most of which ultimately comes from Russia. But oil has also been hit. Ukraine posted these images on Tuesday of fires on oil depots in (inaudible) and Chernihiv in the northwest of the country.
The jury is out for now, on what Russia's endgame is with Ukraine's energy infrastructure. Especially its nuclear sites. Ukraine tells the IEA that radiation levels at these plants appears to be normal. But Western nerves have been rattled.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: And for more, Nina Dos Santos joins us live from London. So, Nina, the word there that there could be a deal in the works to avoid fighting near nuclear plants, obviously that is a welcome development. But the question that many have been asking is, why could Russia possibly be targeting nuclear sites in the first place?
DOS SANTOS (on camera): Good morning to you, Kim. Well, I've been speaking to a number of experts about this towards the course of the week, amid concerns from Ukrainian sources that yes, that some of these sites could be deliberately targeted.
Now Russia has disputed that, but as you saw there, there are 15 of these sensitive sites and many of them, including Chernobyl, are quite literally on the warpath as Russian forces invade further into Ukrainian territory and as a result, they are grabbing these sensitive sites.
[03:45:05]
There could be various reasons for this, one could be just the optics of it. To scare Ukraine, scare the international community that these sensitive nuclear facilities are now in Russian hands. There is other issues at play to though.
If you for instance fire weapons from a nuclear site, it is very difficult for the defensive forces in Ukraine to fire back at that site. Because obviously, they may end up hitting one of those nuclear reactors with devastating consequences.
So for all of these reasons, the IEA is trying to get the two sides together to come to some agreement, to make sure that these sites are shielded. Kim?
BRUNHUBER: Yeah. Let's hope that happens, of course. Nina Dos Santos, thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Well, music is helping many deal with the war in Ukraine. After the break, we will meet one composer finding solace in music. Stay with us.
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[03:50:00]
HOLMES: Welcome back, a Ukrainian composer is finding solace and fighting the war against Russia in the best way he knows how, with music.
CNN's Anderson Cooper with the musician who says, music gives him a feeling of power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST (voice over): It's rare these days that Alexey Shmurak can lose himself in his music. The Ukrainian composer, he recently left Kyiv for the relative safety of Lviv.
How are you doing?
ALEXEY SHMURAK, COMPOSER: I'm alive, and now it is a privilege.
COOPER: It's a privilege to be alive, now.
SHMURAK: Yeah, yeah. It's a privilege to be alive. And also it is a privilege to be in a more or less normal mind.
COOPER: The war takes over the mind for some people.
SHMURAK: Yes, it's like, you know, a very fast apocalyptic changing of everything.
COOPER: Alexey is now organizing online concerts, to raise money for Ukraine. Is music a way of fighting for you?
SHMURAK: Music is a way of constructing and keeping me in some normal mind.
COOPER: Keeping you sane.
SHMURAK: Yeah, when you're playing piano, I feel like, you know, it's something like mysterious, even religious. Because I feel like some power is connected with me.
COOPER: When you play, you feel some power.
SHMURAK: Yeah. Yeah. Like me doing something with the piano keys, with harmonies, with sounds and rhythms, like it makes me more powerful and healthy.
COOPER: It gives you a feeling of control, or power.
SHMURAK: Yes. You know, I understand that this is like a very beautiful illusion. But, if it helps, just use it, you know?
COOPER: And it helps. Music helps you right now? SHMURAK: Yes, I think so. I hope so.
COOPER: Music seems to help other people here, as well. On Wednesday, in Kyiv, the remnants of the classic symphony orchestra performs in Maiden Square. And over the weekend, at the polish border, a German man set up a piano, playing music for refugees streaming across.
Alexey often thought and performed in Russia, but that was before the invasion changed everything.
You would no longer work in Russia?
SHMURAK: I will not longer work, or visit Russia, or places which Russia occupies or destroys. Like Belarus, and other things.
COOPER: You have relatives and your own family from Russia who support the war.
SHMURAK: From Russia. Yes, unfortunately. Yes. So I mean, imagine, killing Putin, and changing Russian government. But what should we do with these people? With millions of people that think that Ukraine is not a real country, that Ukrainians are not a real nation. What should we do with them?
COOPER: I mean, it is really one of the remarkable things that families are divided, that there are families, relatives in Russia who don't believe what is actually happening.
SHMURAK: It's even more dangerous. I, unfortunately, I know a lot of people in Russia, who support even war against civilians, and they like wish death to their brothers, their kids, and so on.
COOPER: There is no telling when, or if, Russia will turn its artillery towards Lviv. There is no telling how much longer music here will be played.
The war can get much worse.
SHMURAK: I don't want to be like a Cassandra, who says that everything will be worse and worse, and then apocalypse. I don't want to be this person.
[03:55:08]
COOPER: You can't think like that.
SHMURAK: No, no, I'm just afraid that I could be right.
COOPER: Anderson Cooper, CNN, Lviv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And thanks for watching, spending part of our day with me, I'm Michael Holmes, and as we go, I will say thanks for spending time with me over the last few weeks. I'm heading home for a break and that is the thing I can do that. It's a feels like temperature of minus 13 Celsius, six Fahrenheit here this morning. Imagine making your way to the Polish border as a refugee, or sitting in a home without heat, if you have a home.
Hala Gorani will take these hours starting from tomorrow, for now, our coverage continues with Isa Soares.
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