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Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) Is Interviewed About The Additional $200 Million In Security Assistance Ordered By President Biden To Ukraine; Poroshenko: Ukrainians Fighting The Invasion "Will Be Hell For Putin"; Zelenskyy: Negotiations With Russia "Must Begin With Ceasefire;" Russia's Invasion Unnerves Markets, Driving Up Gas Prices; Russia Intensifies Bombardment Of Key Ukrainian Cities. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired March 12, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:25]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN "BREAKING NEWS".

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST (on camera): Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us on this special CNN breaking news coverage.

I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York, alongside my colleague, Anderson Cooper in Lviv, Ukraine.

Right now, Russian forces are tightening their grip on Kyiv, as they inch closer to the nation's capital.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): There you hear sirens shattering the silence in Kyiv overnight as airstrikes approached. Russian bombs destroying infrastructure north and south of the city, causing a massive fire at a warehouse.

Satellite images show Russian artillery bombarding Kyiv, where British defense officials are now saying the bulk of Russia's forces are just 15 miles from the city center.

This morning, former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko vowing that Ukrainians will stay and fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETRO POROSHENKO, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: We have less and less ammunition, and we do not allow -- we are not giving up. We are not forgive the Putin these type of things. And I am absolutely confident that we will fight, and every single house, every single street, and every single quarter in Kyiv, in Kharkiv, in (INAUDIBLE), in all of the cities would be the hell for the Russian soldiers and would be at the end of the day the hell for Putin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: And this morning, Ukraine's current president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, saying that negotiations between Ukraine and Russia must begin with a ceasefire. He says all of Ukraine is a frontline and that some small towns do not exist anymore.

The leaders of Germany and France also calling for an immediate ceasefire during a phone call this morning with Russia's President Vladimir Putin. Desperate Ukrainians, meantime, are pouring out of the country.

Today, at least 13 humanitarian corridors are opening for evacuations. The U.N. says more than 2-1/2 million Ukrainians have already fled the country.

Now, I want to go to our Anderson Cooper, anchoring our coverage in Lviv, in western Ukraine. And Anderson, all estimates indicate that, that 2-1/2 million will increase by many millions more.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST (on camera): That's right, there's already almost 2 million internally displaced people also already in Ukraine, and it's very possible many of those may ultimately want to try to leave as well. Though a lot of people obviously want to stay in Ukraine. This is their homeland. They don't want to leave if they don't have to.

We've got reporters around the world monitoring all the latest developments in Ukraine and in the conflict. Let's start right here in Lviv with CNN's Salma Abdelaziz.

The comments from Zelenskyy today, there was a slight note of optimism. I'm not sure it's based on anything specific going on. But, what did he say?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER (on camera): He essentially said that, for the first time, he seen signs of progress from Russian negotiators. He says that they finally stopped exchanging ultimatums. And now they're finally starting to talk.

It's a little bit different than what we heard from French sources -- from the French presidency, which says, of course, that President Vladimir Putin is still determined to achieve his goals.

But we know in the early stages of negotiations, there's a lot of back and forth, there's a lot of trying to figure out the middle ground.

Here is what everybody agrees on. The ceasefire must take place before any serious talks happen. That's the call from European leaders. That's the call, of course from President Zelenskyy, because, yes, negotiations will take time.

And in the meanwhile, more people are being forced out of their homes, more people are losing their lives.

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: Yes.

ABDELAZIZ: So, you're wondering, could that ceasefire happen when we're seeing this offensive actually grow, expand, become more intense?

ANDERSON: Right. We saw the attack on an airfield in Lutsk, which is closer to the Polish border, and not all that far from here -- about 70 or so miles, I think. Obviously, also, the attack intensifying around Kyiv.

ABDELAZIZ: The attacks intensifying around Kyiv, and it's the types of attacks that are happening, a food depot. And you can imagine at a time like this, food depot going up in flames when people are struggling to get basic supplies.

We heard that a hotel was hit, of course, a few days ago, a maternity hospital. Today a mayor, you know, the president -- Zelenskyy again, saying a mayor was abducted, taken from his town in broad daylight.

So, it's not just about bombs and bullets now. There is a lot of warfare that President Zelenskyy says is meant to terrify the civilians of this country.

[12:04:56]

ANDERSON: Yes. I want to go to CNN's Melissa Bell who is in Paris. Melissa, France's president, Emmanuel Macron, as well as the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz held that phone call with Vladimir Putin that Bianna mentioned this morning, calling for an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine. What more do we know about the call?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, essentially what these phone calls provide, and they happen very regularly, Anderson. The last time the French president spoke to Putin with his German counterpart was on Thursday. Today, they had that other call just this afternoon. And this gives an insight into the mind of the man that really everyone would like to have a much better understanding of right now, in terms of what his intentions are in the near term.

I was able to ask a source at the Elysee, what state of mind President Macron, Chancellor Scholz had found Vladimir Putin in this afternoon when they spoke to him? And the answer came, determined. Determined, they said, to carry out his objectives in Ukraine.

Now, of course, that does not bode well and it leads the French -- lead the French source to say that what the Europeans are going to do next week is push ahead with a fresh round of sanctions. They're going to look at punishing the Russian economy further to try and bring an end to those bombings, to try and bring an end to that advance that we're seeing that apparently relentless advance towards Kyiv with everything that it would mean.

And specifically, Emmanuel Macron had said yesterday at Versailles, speaking at speaking at a summit of the 27 European leaders, Anderson that, should Kyiv come under attack, there would be some very harsh sanctions put forward, specifically because of that.

And essentially, what the sanctions are doing in foreign for very closely what's happening on the ground, and seeking to punish Vladimir Putin every step of the way, Anderson. ANDERSON: U.S. officials, however, have expressed little optimism that diplomatic channels can actually end this bloodshed. CNN's Jeremy Herb is in New York. Jeremy, what options are there at this point to ending the war?

JEREMY HERB, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (on camera): Well, I think that's the problem, Anderson, here, is that both the U.S. and European officials, they don't really see a diplomatic path, at least at this point.

Now, obviously, the conversations that are going on between people, the French -- the French president, the German chancellor with President Putin, it's a positive sign.

But the problem is that those talks and other talks just haven't yielded progress on the ground. There hasn't been a ceasefire, as you said, there, the evacuation quarters that were hoped to be established this week, those haven't really yielded any progress either.

There have been other efforts, though, in addition. The Israeli prime minister, he went to Moscow last week. He's spoken this week with presidents Putin and Zelenskyy on the phone.

The Turkish -- the U.S. -- excuse me, the Ukrainian and Russian ambassadors, the foreign ministers met in Turkey this week, also, which is the highest level talks, the two countries have had directly to date.

But U.S. officials, they're monitoring all of these, but they don't really see any signs of progress. They also don't see a reason for the Biden administration to directly engage with the Russians at this point.

So, they're hoping that these talks will go on. But they -- there is really just simply not a lot of sign of optimism. And the Intelligence Committee, they told Capitol Hill this week, they see -- their assessment is that President Putin is simply going to escalate, he's going to double down rather than try to find a diplomatic solution. Anderson.

ANDERSON: Yes, it certainly seems on the ground to be intensifying. Jeremy Herb, Melissa Bell, thanks. Salma Abdelaziz as well.

I want to get more with Inna Sovsun, she is a member of Ukraine's parliament. She joins me now. Are you hearing similar reports about Russian attacks intensifying in in Kyiv?

Obviously, overnight, there were a number of shellings heard, a number of air raid sirens that went off.

INNA SOVSUN, MEMBER, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Well, thanks for having me, Anderson.

Yes, we did hear many explosions in the city. The Russians are definitely trying to get closer. They are not getting very successful in that, frankly speaking, and that has given us hope. We have seen that they were trying to get closer to the city of Kyiv for the last, well, two weeks from day one of the war.

But, a Ukrainian army did fight back regularly on the north east from the city. So, they didn't manage to get any closer. But we do realize that they will try to get into the city of Kyiv.

And Kyiv has been preparing for this attack from day one. The city is heavily fortified. There are many, many checkpoints. It would be extremely difficult to get into a city.

But, of course, we do realize that this is their goal after all. So, they will do everything in their power. And right now, everything that they have is basically just terrorizing the civilian population, because they are not very good at fighting against the Ukrainian army.

So, what they turn into -- turn to is, well, threatening and terrorizing civilian population.

We know for sure that they have been given orders to shoot at civilians. That is why the majority of those humanitarian corridors that they promised have basically failed.

And, of course, the situation in the city of Mariupol where people are basically held hostage to the Russians is just terrifying. The mayor over there reports over 1,500 people dead during the first 10 days of the blockade. And I think that is the the reason --

(CROSSTALK)

[12:10:01]

ANDERSON: Yes.

SOVSUN: There reason why they are doing that is to use it as a leverage in their potential negotiations.

ANDERSON: Yes, we saw that mass grave being dug by Ukrainian officials in that town of Mariupol, unable to deal with the number of people who are being killed.

The mayor of Melitopol has been detained by Russian forces. There's that surveillance -- security camera video of him being led away. You tweeted out earlier today a picture of a Russian flag flying near the mayor's office there, saying that they're just -- they -- they're just taking territory, simple as that.

Have you learned anything about where the mayor is, what may be happening to him?

SOVSUN: Well, the recent information we got is actually even more terrifying than before. Because now, we are hearing that he has being tortured by the Russians. That is what they got to.

They are now trying to establish their so called People's Republic Kherson, despite the very fact that during the whole week, 1000s of people in occupied Kherson will go into the streets to protest against Russians being there.

But they are still trying to create this, you know, the Republic similarly to what they did to -- in Donbas eight years ago. And I really hope that this time, the world will not keep quiet. Because I'm do -- I am sure that if the world punished Putin eight years ago for what he did to Ukraine, after annexation of Crimea, after taking part of the Donbas territory, basically under his control; if the wolf punished Putin, this would not have escalated to what we are having right now here in Ukraine.

And I think that the world needs to stop being in denial of what has happened in here. Putin only response to strength. He only response to -- he doesn't respond to weakness, he doesn't respond to, let's not escalate. Like, as long as he keeps on hearing that from the West, he will continue to escalate. And that is what we're seeing here now.

He is basically taking parts of our territory, he is killing our children, he is destroying our infrastructure, he is -- his goal is to destroy Ukraine, and that he will go further. He will go further to the border -- to the eastern border of Poland. And he will try to take over Poland as well.

So, what we're asking here is just see what he's doing right now. Stop believing that this, you know, idea of let's not escalate is going to work with Putin -- It's not. And just let's fight him back together. That's all we have to do it. That's all we have left to do now.

ANDERSON: You heard about this French -- this phone call, the French president, the German chancellor saying any negotiation has to begin with a ceasefire. Do you have any confidence? I mean, we have not seen really any progress of coming out of talks? Certainly, not the talk for the foreign ministers on Thursday.

Do you have any hope that there could be some sort of a negotiation at this stage?

SOVSUN: Well, I don't see how we can negotiate with people who blatantly deny that they attacked Ukraine. I believe the whole world did hear this by Lavrov. He said that we didn't start a war in Ukraine.

He also said that they attacked maternity hospital because it was a military base. And we all again, saw pregnant women trying to leave the building after they bombarded it.

They are always lying, they are unable to tell the truth. And that is why the negotiations with them are -- well, impossible. They promised the humanitarian corridors, and then, like in Mariupol, that they sets the landmines over there.

And they know that people who are like elderly people, families with small children will try to get out of there, and they specifically are targeting those people.

This is the level of evil we are dealing with. And it's like negotiating with Hitler. We all know that historical lesson that it doesn't work, and it shouldn't work right now.

That is why we have to accept this scary, scary truth that this is the Hitler of our time. And you cannot feel you make a deals with Hitler or -- well, a Hitler of our times who is Putin now.

ANDERSON: It's stunning to me the number of Ukrainians I've spoken to who have family members in Russia, and those family members do not believe what is happening in Ukraine. They don't believe that their brothers or sisters that their parents are under attack here in Ukraine.

How do you -- how do you explain that? I mean, even if they're getting disinformation from the Russian regime, they must know -- I mean, they must know what is going on here, even if they don't see it on their evening news.

SOVSUN: I think, again, this is scary reality, but we have to accept it. The Russian society is as responsible for what has happened in here in Ukraine as Putin is.

70 percent of Russians support the war in Ukraine. That is a scary number, but that is the truth. There have been fallen victims to this propaganda machine set up by Putin for years, for 20 years of his rule.

[12:15:00]

SOVSUN: And now, they are unable -- they are physically, psychologically unable to trust their own relatives.

Just half an hour before this, I was talking to a friend. And she told me a story of her friend. She has an uncle in Russia. And she is living here in Ukraine, and she is living in Donbas area, and she has been hiding in the bunker for the last week because the Russians are shelling the area where she is.

And she was talking to her uncle who was living in Russia. And she -- he didn't he -- not simply not believe her about their level of attack by Russians, he actually said that he is going to report where she is being located right now to the FSB, His own niece with small children. He said that I will report where you are right now, to the FSB.

This is the level of craziness in the Russian society.

ANDERSON: Wow.

SOVSUN: And that is just unbelievable. I hear so many stories. Like my friend's mom has a brother in Russia, and he says that, are you a Nazi? I will not talk to you. Brother and sister.

This is -- this is amazing level of, you know, well, how propaganda machine works there. It's a very scary society.

ANDERSON: Yes.

SOVSUN: It's not just Putin that is scary, but that is true. ANDERSON: Yes. Yes, Inna Sovsun, I so appreciate talking to you. And I wish you the best.

SOVSUN: Thank you.

ANDERSON: Thank you.

SOVSUN: Thank you so much, Anderson.

ANDERSON: Coming up, for the millions of families fleeing Ukraine, life still must go on in one way or another and that means school for some kids. Ahead, what that new, sad, normal, looks like for those displaced children and teachers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:46]

GOLODRYGA: Now, to the heartbreaking reality in the face of violence in Ukraine. 2-1/2 million people have been forced to flee the country since Russia invaded, 17 days ago. That's according to the latest numbers from the United Nations.

This refugee is seeking immediate safety in nearby Poland, Hungary, Moldova, and Romania, where their next steps are uncertain.

But for so many fleeing Putin's brutal onslaught, life still has to go on. And for some, that means school for children and teachers. But now, they're being forced to learn and teach remotely from unfamiliar places, and so much of their lives now left behind.

CNN's Ivan Watson has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An all too familiar scene for parents who lived through the COVID pandemic.

NADIA PAVLENKO, TEACHER WHO FLED UKRAINE: OK, (INAUDIBLE) --

WATSON: Children, fidgeting through a zoom class about the solar system.

The difference here, most of these Ukrainian school kids are refugees, reconnecting with their classmates and teacher online.

In the last two weeks, the students and their teacher fled to different countries to escape Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

WATSON (on camera): How old are your students?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven, eight.

WATSON (voice-over): From Poland, Nadia Pavlenko teaches her students online classes, even though the school stopped paying her salary.

None of us know what will happen next, she says. But these classes with my children are like a bridge to my past life in Ukraine. They help us feel connected.

More time distance learning. There's a lot of this going on right now.

Do you think the online classes are helping these kids?

ALEXANDER PARCALAB, TEACHER WHO FLED UKRAINE: Very much. They -- it's helping them in mental, having to feel their routine that the life is still going on. Then, it's not -- It's not the end of the world.

WATSON: Alexander Parcalab is a school teacher who fled the Ukrainian city of Odessa to neighboring Moldova. In the morning, he teaches students from his Ukrainian school online.

PARCALAB: Children asked me if I'm safe. Where I am? With who I am? They were asking me. Before, me, asking them.

WATSON: In the afternoon, he comes here. A makeshift school for Ukrainian children in the Moldovan capital.

PARCALAB: Parents asked me to make a place to feel very safety and maybe just emotionally for two, three hours or more, just feel --

(CROSSTALK)

WATSON: To scape.

PARCALAB: Yes, to escape on this.

WATSON: Half of his online students fled across borders. The other half are still in Ukraine.

PARCALAB: The first lesson in zoom, I said that you should to be the -- this first domino to help somebody, maybe your mother need help, maybe mother's friends need help. And this is, what can I do? I cannot change the world, but I can change me and change like the mood of my mother, and it will be like a domino.

WATSON: These girls say they're looking forward to starting online classes with their Ukrainian classmates on Monday.

WATSON (on camera): (INAUDIBLE) says she wants to find out where her classmates traveled to and to make sure that they're healthy right now.

WATSON (voice-over): 8-year-old Timor Zhdanov (PH), and his father, Artem stayed behind in Ukraine.

WATSON (on camera): Were you surprised when Timor's teacher said, hey, we're going to continue online learning?

ARTEM ZHDANOV, SON CONTINUES REMOTE LEARNING IN UKRAINE: Honestly, yes. I think that they're feeling this strong connection with Ukraine, and then, want to support us as much as they can. And also, a new generation of Ukrainian people.

WATSON (voice-over): A new generation that may grow up in exile, relying on technology to stay connected to their homeland.

[12:24:22]

WATSON: Ivan Watson, CNN Chisinau, Moldova.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Just moments ago, President Biden ordered the release of an additional $200 million in security assistance to Ukraine. Now, this would include military education and training.

Per White House official today's announcement brings the total amount of security assistance provided to Ukraine to $1.2 billion in the past year.

I want to bring in Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur, a Democrat from Ohio. She is the co-chair and co-founder of the Congressional Ukraine Caucus.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us. So, we hear an additional $200 million. This is coming as we are also hearing from the Ukrainian foreign minister who is grateful for the aid that is coming from the United States, but says more is needed.

Do you think that this 200 million is just the start of another tranche?

REP. MARCY KAPTUR (D-OH): Well, first of all, thank you for your phenomenal coverage. The American people and the world are really learning about the tyrannical rule in Russia for many of our young people for the first time. And I just congratulate you. I'm so proud of you as free press.

In terms of the additional funding for defense, yes, the United States has been a consistent a supplier of money for weapons for Ukraine. Recognized that the Russian military is so much larger than Ukraine's.

[12:30:10]

In fact, Russia spends 10 times more every year than Ukrainians do on defense. And their defense is much more. The Russians are much more sophisticated, or they have six times as many airplanes and they're more lethal. You're talking about ground forces that, three times that Ukraine even has available to it.

It's really a David and Goliath fight. And the Ukrainians are distinguishing themselves on what is already sacred soil if you look back at the last century, so these dollars will help provide at least some additional weapons. And some of our allies in Europe are doing the same, but it's truly an unfair fight. And the Ukrainians are fighting heroically. GOLODRYGA: And on that note, some of the asks aren't necessarily financially related, right, and the delay from the United States, I'm specifically referencing the MiG-29s that the Ukrainians have been asking for that Poland had been willing to deliver to the Americans to then deliver to Ukraine.

The President and this administration has been adamant that that is just not tenable. Again, going back to the Foreign Minister's comments just a few moments ago, he said that Ukrainian civilian lives could have been saved if planes had been delivered to Ukraine. Do you think that that was a wrong move and decision on the President's part?

KAPTUR: Only history will tell us that but you might remember the Malaysian airliner that went down at the Ukraine-Russia border just a few years ago. Russia has a very, very sophisticated weaponry to bring down planes. And they are using their arsenal against a population. Now less than 40 million people in Ukraine, they have over 130 million people in Russia over 11 time zones.

So it's simply not a fair fight, however, because they are nuclear power, and they have the ability to bring down craft. What has been happening today with the Ukrainian Air Force, under person, under equipped, they have been extraordinary in their ability to shoot down Russian craft and to meet some of the oncoming missiles. But obviously, they don't have the proper equipment.

So I am someone who very much supports at some point here, a ceasefire, every place that Russia fights, she leaves complete -- look at Syria, a beautiful country that Russia just carpet bombed, right? We don't want that to happen in Ukraine. It's happening already in some of the eastern cities. We've seen that.

And now the Russian forces are pointing toward Kyiv. Really, it seems to me that there ought to be a diplomatic panel that is operating against this scorched earth policy, so that we can actually as adults in this world resolve this conflict in a way that resolves Russia's worries, although most of them are false, and gives Ukraine a chance to access to Europe.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and as we heard from President Zelenskyy today, he said some small towns and villages have just disappeared now, due to Russia's indiscriminate bombing and attacks, you have a large constituency of Ukrainian immigrants in your district. I'm just curious, how are they responding to all of this because it has been interesting and inspiring, I would say, to see that Americans and those in Europe as well have really rallied in support of Ukraine and approved of more aid coming from their leadership?

KAPTUR: Yes, and I would say that Ukrainian Americans have been magnificent. Any American including myself, who, whose ancestors come from Europe, we understand the enemy. In fact, our -- against the Bolsheviks in 1918. And now a century later, we're in the same territory, right?

We're trying to fend off this state that should grow up and come part of the modern world and not have the free world have to have this standoff. Russia should be a great nation. She has such potential. I visited there so many times. And she got to move to the negotiating table.

But in terms of my own constituencies, they're collecting money, they're collecting objects, goods to eventually be shipped over, global Cleveland has been magnificent, Cleveland Foundation, the Great Lakes Consortium for International Training and Development, USAID, and I've got this today, Americans are saying what to do first, what to do first is to go to USAID.gov. And our State Department will tell you how to collect your money, where to place it at least initially. Isn't that good?

GOLODRYGA: Yes, well, look, we can see it loud and clear. And I and I agree with you. It is inspiring to see how charitable so many in this country are to helping those in Ukraine who are in desperate need of aid. Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur. Thank you for your time.

[12:35:03]

Well as gas prices skyrocket, there is a growing chorus of those demanding that the U.S. start drilling for more of its own oil. Just ahead we'll hear from one expert who says that that won't help.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Uber says it is temporarily adding a surge charge to rides and deliveries starting Wednesday to offset sharply rising fuel prices. The nationwide average is now $4.32 for a gallon of regular, that's right all-time high. We're right around that. And now the White House is scrambling to fight the surge, which was sparked by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

CNN's Paul Vercammen is following this for us from Los Angeles. And, Paul, I know you've been talking to some food truck operators who have been having to deal with this impact. How is it affecting their business?

[12:40:25]

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, their business is getting bludgeoned, because their costs are rising so fast because of gasoline. Look behind me, $5.79 for gasoline, the average in California, now 5.73 a gallon. And for the food truck operators, and this is no small business, the Southern California Vendors Association, saying it's almost a billion dollar a year business.

They have very, very thin profit margins. Look at the items behind me such as sodas or a burrito, they've raised their prices many of them at this particular truck up to $8 per burrito. And what they're saying is just getting to work is costing them a lot of money, they often stop at several spots, and one vendor explained this to us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODOLFO BARRIENTOS, FOOD TRUCK OPERATOR: I'm coming all the way from South Central to the Pacific Palisades that's like 15 miles, maybe a little bit more. And these trucks, they have big engines. I'm spending anywhere from like 80 to $90 a day on gasoline, and that's eating up at our margins, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And so they're pounded by the gas tax here in California, it's the second highest in the nation at 51 cents per gallon. The governor now responding, Governor Newsom saying that he would like to see some sort of relief for Californians in the form of a tax rebate, he's looking for partners to author this in the legislature. Stay tuned, Bianna, because Californians are asking for some sort of help with these just skyrocketing gasoline prices, back to you.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And they are not the only ones. Paul Vercammen in Pacific Palisades, thank you.

Well, let's talk more about what happens next with fuel prices. Joining me now is Sam Ori. He's the Executive Director of the Energy Policy Institute at the University of Chicago. Welcome to the program. So what should we make of the U.S. now according Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, we obviously had heavy sanctions on Venezuela, but we're trying to get them to up their production, and perhaps replace the Russian oil in there for U.S. imports.

And before you answer that, I just want you to listen to what Columbia's energy minister said earlier this week, at an oil conference, he said, if you've just banned oil from what they call the Russian dictator, it is difficult to explain why you were going to buy it from the Venezuelan dictator.

SAM ORI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ENERGY POLICY INSTITUTE, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Yes, it's a great question. You know, I think what you should make of it is that, look, there's only so many places in the world that you can go when you want to increase supply quickly. And, you know, the administration in the U.S. and policymakers around the world are really looking for policy, or rather, are looking for price relief right now, as oil prices and gasoline prices are skyrocketing.

And so you should really think of Saudi Arabia as essentially the world's central banker in oil, they have, you know, extra capacity that they can bring online, extra oil that they can bring to market very quickly. And so it's a logical place to go from that standpoint. I think it's far from clear whether Saudi Arabia will actually help in this situation.

You know, there's been pressure on the Saudis, including from the U.S. administration for now the past several months, as oil prices have been increasing, to increase their production, to produce additional oil and bring it to market. And the Saudis have been doing this at their own pace, at a pace that has not stopped prices from rising for several months.

And so it's unclear if they're going to be willing to help in this situation, but it's a perfectly logical place to go. When it comes to Venezuela, I think it's a slightly different story. You know, Venezuela, the oil industry there has been in terminal decline, really since around 2015. And though the country sits on the world's, you know, arguably the world's largest oil reserves, it's now producing very little oil. And so it's very unclear whether Venezuela will be able to help, you know, in a pinch in this crisis.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And obviously, the U.S. trying to cut in and to the ties, the historic ties between Russia and Venezuela as well by reaching out to them. We know that the U.S. has now banned imports of Russian oil to the United States. But that was more of a symbolic move. Let's just be honest, because of the U.S. relies on what 3 percent of Russian oil imports, a very different story for Europeans. We're talking about 40 percent of their energy sources coming from Russia.

I'm just curious now, given that, that Europeans are saying all options are still on the table. In reality, how likely is it that we could see them make that drastic move of cutting off supplies coming in from Russia given that they've had years to look for alternative sources and haven't?

ORI: Yes, I think you have to separate oil and gas, you know, in that equation, and so for natural gas the Europeans have really announced of very ambitious program for reducing the reliance on natural gas from Russia, you know. And it's in part it's possible because there are lots of different competing fuel sources that you can rely on, if you want to reduce reliance on gas in Europe.

And so, you know, they've talked about moving forward their targets for renewable energy for wind and solar deployment and clean energy in Europe, you know, that will compete directly with gas in the power sector in Europe. They've talked about, you know, as quickly as possible, increasing their ability to import liquefied natural gas from the United States.

[12:45:31]

And then, of course, they've talked about several things on the demand side reducing, you know, reducing consumption through efficiency. So a natural gas, it's I think it's far more possible. When it comes to oil, it's a very different situation. And, you know, we are really still globally in the United States and in Europe, this is certainly true, we're still in the oil age.

Oil is really the key fuel in many developed economies. And it's really used in transportation where there are not a lot of competition or competing fuel sources, there's not a lot of other things you can switch to. And so, you know, you're absolutely right, that so far what we've done, the United States by banning import -- importation of Russian oil, it's been very symbolic, that's really just going to result in largely a shuffling around of barrels in the world.

You know, we'll import a little bit less of Russian oil, that oil will go somewhere else, and we'll buy oil from someone else. Really trying to reduce the amount of Russian oil in the market is a different question. And I think it's a far more complicated question.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, obviously, Russia really dependent on China, buying their oil and continuing to buy it the years to come. Sam Ori, thank you for your analysis. We appreciate it.

ORI: Thanks for having me.

GOLODRYGA: Well, one of the largest super yachts in the world is now in the hands of the Italian police. They seized it from Russian billionaire Andrey Melnichenko. He was the one of the Russian oligarchs sanctioned by the E.U. following the invasion of Ukraine. In a statement, the E.U. says that he was a member of Putin's inner circle. Now that yacht that you see there is worth more than $570 million. And you can see the video from the finance police, Melnichenko boarding that vessel himself.

Up next, someone who was experiencing the shelling in Ukraine firsthand, we'll check in with a mom of three who was living inside of basement turned bomb shelter.

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[12:51:49]

COOPER: With fighting intensifying around the capital of Kyiv, we checked back in with a woman that we have been talking to quite a bit since the invasion began. Her name is Olena Gnes. She's the former journalist who now post videos to her "What is Ukraine" YouTube Channel.

She has been staying inside a, it's not really a bomb shelter, it's really just a basement in a building with her three children. The youngest of whom is just four months old. Her husband has volunteered to fight. I spoke with her last night about the fighting nearby and how she and her family are handling it.

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COOPER: How are you in your kids doing today?

OLENA GNES, UKRAINIAN SHELTERING IN KYIV: We are doing, kids are doing fine. A little bit tired and stressed. Me, I'm doing bad because we are in a bad situation.

COOPER: Has something changed about the situation? Do you -- I understand I heard you say that you've heard more gunshots and that you feel the Russian forces are close?

GNES: I'm not sure what exactly it was but we were like we went outside and kids were playing at the playground and all of a sudden we like heard these guns shooting very close to us and we just ran into the bomb shelter. Maybe this was someone, I didn't know what was it but it was very close. And in the daytime we heard a very loud explosion maybe that was air defense that worked and hit a missile or something.

Yes, from time to time we hear explosions and we hear the guns and like we are in the northwest of Kyiv in Obolon region so what you know about is, you know, tanks coming, we are very close to the position of Russians who are coming in position of the Ukrainian army who are protecting us.

We were feel safer in the basement, like psychological safe, where like under the ground, say explosions are not that loud. And then under the ground it was safer then on the eighth floor in our apartment in the old Soviet building. Yes. And we already have here many toys and many blankets and some food, more food here than at home, like in our apartment.

So yes, it's now like our home too. And it's such a pity because we have created here some comfort. And I realized, it's not forever, this shelter cannot be this nice and perfect forever. And that the danger is very close and it can change. This, you know, feeling of safety can be illusion, though the feeling of danger is all the time with us too.

And, you know, every day, every morning, I like wake up and I say thank you for another night. Now we have another day and we take one day at a time and each day can be the last. It's very hard feeling. I stay here because this is my home. If you guys are afraid to then I have no option not to be afraid. Yes. If I leave, nobody else is going to come and protect my home and protect me so it should be me, it should be my husband, it should be my neighbor's. We should protect ourselves. We should fight ourselves.

[12:55:05]

I don't want to sacrifice my children. I don't want to sacrifice myself. I don't want to be a martyr or something. I want -- don't want to be a part of a big show. I don't want to be a part of this tragedy. I want to live. I want my kids to go back to school in kindergarten. But, you know, to be able to attend school in kindergarten and have a normal childhood again, we have to put a big effort into this.

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