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Defiant Ukrainians Dig In As Russians Inch Closer To Capital; Humanitarian Situation Bleak As Civilian Evacuation Stalls; Romanian Family Hosts 31 Ukrainian Refugees Under One Roof; Russia Warns U.S. It Will Fire On Weapon Shipments To Ukraine; U.S. Approves $200 Million Of Weapons For Ukraine's Defense; War Hits Close To Home For Ukrainian-Americans; Biden: Russia To Pay "Severe Price" If It Uses Chemical Weapons; Ukraine's First Lady Shares Reality Of War On Social Media; Soaring Inflation Upends U.S. Consumers, Small Businesses. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired March 12, 2022 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[21:00:24]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VOLODYMYR, ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translation): I don't want to get used to it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Ukraine, it seems is being overrun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Less and less ammunition.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are in a bad situation. We're like paradise guns shooting very close to us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A daughter desperately trying to track down her mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can see there's some damage up there presumably from artillery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Russia appears to be widening its assault. The fighters from Syria so to be volunteering to join the fight.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS (in unison): (Speaking Foreign Language)
ZELENSKYY (through translation): They're using terror to break us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heavily pregnant and escaping from the wreckage of recently bombed Mariupol maternity hospital. A day later in a new hospital and the proud mother of a daughter, Veronica (ph).
ZELENSKYY (through translation): I can only describe it as a terrorist act that is happening daily.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You were in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is inching ever closer to the capital there. British intelligence is warning that the bulk of the Kremlin's forces is just 15 miles from the Kyiv City Center. This village or what's left of it is 30 miles to the west. That same relentless bombardment was unleashed across much of the country.
In the south, a Russian barrage tear rises the strategic port city of Mykolaiv. Ukraine says, most of the damage in civilian areas is from so called dumb bombs, reckless and their brutality and lack of precision. And the U.S. is growing more concerned that Russia could resort to chemical weapons.
In the top right corner of your screen, democracy under attack armed men drag away the mayor of a southern Ukrainian city. His fate is unknown. Ukraine's president is calling for his immediate release. And he is pleading again tonight for more international help.
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ZELENSKYY (through translation): I keep reiterating to our allies and friends abroad. They have to keep doing more for our country, for Ukrainians and Ukraine. Because it is not only for Ukraine, but it is for all Europe. The evil which purposefully targets peaceful cities and ambulance bans and explodes hospitals will not stop with just one country if they have the strength to keep going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Some updates tonight on the Chernobyl nuclear plant. We're learning that generators are providing the needed electricity right now. But the atomic watchdog group IAEA says staffers have been living there since the Russians captured it. And of course, that adds to fears that exhausted workers could make catastrophic mistakes and a crisis.
Well, there are now more than 2.6 million refugees who have fled Ukraine. That is a startling number. Imagine all those people having to flee their homes, leave behind loved ones and the United Nations estimates another 2 million people have been displaced inside the country. Poland has taken in most of the people who have left Ukraine, 1.5 million refugees are there.
And it has led to scenes like these, long lines of people being processed at refugee centers. They're mostly women and children because Ukraine won't let men between 18 and 60 leave. There has been limited success evacuating civilians from some of the hardest hit areas. Near Kyiv Friday, thousands escaped despite incoming fire.
And the governor of Kharkiv in the East said that the effort to evacuate a nearby town was disrupted by Russian occupiers who shelled the area to the south and Mariupol. Ukraine's defense minister says Russians bombed the city even during the official negotiations. Local authorities say shelling an airstrikes have killed nearly 1,600 people.
And those who have gotten out are seeing an outpouring of support. Refugees in Poland are receiving things like strollers, baby carrier, jackets, toys and diapers, basic necessities. Vice President Kamala Harris told them the U.S. is committed to helping.
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KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They've been through so much. And the people at this table will represented over a million people who must be seeing their stories must be known. So that we as a community of people around the world can support.
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[21:05:10]
BROWN: So many people are opening their hearts and their homes to refugees. CNN's Miguel Marquez has this report from Romania.
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MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 31 refugees from Ukraine under, one, Romanian root. All different ages, all nationalities, all stain free of charge.
(on-camera): I want to show people this first what this says so much. What is this?
ALINA GREAVU, HOSTING UKRAINIAN REFUGEES: This is the shoes of all refugees and volunteers. For the moment, I think some of them are out in the city, so there might be even more shoes.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): It's a lot of everything. From laundry to home cooked borscht. Alina Greavu and her husband, Adi Kampulyan (ph) and a whole bunch of volunteers in their rural Romanian home, so far, have hosted more than 60 refugees from Ukraine. Yelena Petrunina from Kharkiv has cancer.
YELENA PETRUNINA, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE FROM KHARKIV (through translation): (Speaking Foreign Language).
MARQUEZ (voice-over): I was diagnosed with cancer, she says. I was supposed to have the operation and it was prepared to have it on February 24th. The day the war started. Her surgery in Ukraine canceled. She now has it planned for Romania and is getting the support she needs from her new Romanian hosts.
19-year-old Nigerian Iman Odejobi, was studying medicine and playing soccer in Ukraine. He's here waiting for a flight to reunite with his family in Qatar.
IMAN ODEJOBI, STUDENT FORCED TO FLEE UKRAINE: I didn't expect people like this especially Europeans. I don't really see anything like contradicting but like I didn't expect them to be this like welcoming to like -- MARQUEZ (on-camera): Because you're African.
ODEJOBI: Yes, that is one. That is one.
MARQUEZ (on-camera): Look, we've all heard the stories of Africans and Indians being treated differently on the border, but you're --
ODEJOBI: This is all completely different, all completely new and like, I'm very like proud of them. I'm very appreciative of what they've done.
Olga Batochka and her daughter Alona from Kharkiv are here waiting for a flight to Portugal to stay with relatives. Their town being pummeled by Russian rockets and artillery. Some of her Russian friends don't believe it.
OLGA BATOCHKA, UKRAINIAN REFUGES FROM KHARKIV: I know him from four years old, and he called me and what does happen? I say I'm in an underground now. I can't tell you. It's awful. We have bombs on our houses on. Oh, it's -- can't be. Go home.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): From Kyiv, Sasha Nichmilov, his wife and five kids have nowhere else to go.
(on-camera): How do you explain the war to your children?
SASHA NICHMILOV, UKRIANIAN REFUGEE FROM KYIV: (Speaking Foreign Language)
MARQUEZ (voice-over): The older kids understand what's happening, he says. The younger ones don't, but even when our windows broke from the bombing, I told them it was an earthquake. He says the war will end but can't say when or what that end will look like.
For now refugees, volunteers, strangers.
GREAVU: We help each other no matter our race, sex, sexual orientation, color of the skin and so on.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Trying to make an uncertain world a little less strange.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: And look, the dynamic that we are seeing now is that as the Russians continue their move toward the west, as they continue to use indiscriminate force, shelling and rockets into civilian areas, the people that are coming to the border here, they have to leave more quickly. So they have less of everything, food, water, documents, and they have very little time to pack up. The desperation and the need in places like Romania is only growing. Pamela?
BROWN: OK. Thank you so much, Miguel.
And I want to bring in now Susan Glasser, she is a CNN Global Affairs Analyst, and Staff Writer for The New Yorker. Hi, Susan. So Russian has said that Western shipments of military supplies can be viewed as legitimate targets. Does that increase the risk of this villain beyond Ukraine's borders?
SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, look, I think that's always been, you know, sort of one of the uncertain gray areas here is, you know, what level of not participating in the war does the United States and its partners have to do in order to genuinely not be considered to be at war with Russia? First of all, the enormous economic sanctions that the United States and others imposed on Russia are arguably tantamount to an act of economic warfare.
And at one point, Putin said as much, frankly, American officials have said as much so that's one issue. You know, and when you look at the devastating consequences on Russia's economy, you know, it's hard not to see it as such. Openly arming the Ukrainian military is another example of that. And I think that's why you see so many people so concerned about the risks for escalation here.
[21:10:07]
BROWN: And the White House has warned that Russia could use chemical weapons, speaking of escalation concerns, and the President Biden has warned of a severe price that the Kremlin would pay. What do you think that means? I mean, what kind of severe price? Could that be a redline for direct combat involvement?
GLASSER: Well, I, you know, it's horrible to contemplate, but where Russia to go in this direction. You know, I think there'd be enormous pressure on not just President Biden, but you know, on all Western countries to take more serious action against Russia than they have up until this point. It would be seen as such an incredible escalation on Russia's part, it would likely be met with additional escalation from the west. And that's where you immediately can see the fears of a spiral coming in.
And I would point out that one of the great concerns right now is that this is not just purely speculative. Russia has used chemical weapons before during the tenure of Vladimir Putin and has not hesitated to use this kind of force, you know, including a deadly radioactive agent.
Polonium used to try to assassinate someone who considered an enemy on London a number of years ago, following that up with the attack on Sergei Skripal, a former Russian spy a few years ago, following up its actions in Syria and helping the Assad regime cover up. It's a chemical weapons attack, so it's a genuine fear at this point.
BROWN: It certainly is. And you're right, I mean, past behavior could be a predictor of future behavior. And so the fact that Putin has used chemical weapons in the past certainly creates that concern now.
Now, the U.S. is not budging in its refusal to send aircraft or establish a no-fly zone. Is the delivery of weapons and anti-aircraft systems enough to stop the Russian military?
GLASSER: Well, you know, you see a lot of commentary from more real military experts than I am. I think the thing that is concerning right now is that Russia is a superior military force, they obviously are not able and have not executed the plan that they have. We can say that so far pretty conclusively. But, you know, again, there have been a battles in Ukraine before in World War II, and it took some time, even for the superior Nazi German force in the 1940s to take Kyiv,
So it's not out of the question that Russia with its military can proceed to obtain those objectives in a much more brutal and longer term way than Putin and his commanders clearly envisioned at first. So unfortunately, right, that just leaves the possibility of more and more civilian casualties, more destruction of civilian infrastructure. And so it just -- it imposes greater costs on Ukraine, but it's not clear whether the outcome will change or not.
BROWN: Quickly, I want to get to this viewer question, because what you described there mean that the indiscriminate killing of civilians and so forth, those are war crimes. And one viewer wrote in, what is the point of the Geneva Convention, if tyrants can violate its terms with impunity? Is that something you think you can speak to?
GLASSER: Look, we have a broken international system. In the wake of World War II, United Nations and the Security Council was created with that specific scenario in mind again, as long as Russia, as long as China have a veto on the U.N. Security Council, it's impossible to speak of meaningful enforcement.
And so what reckoning there will be for Vladimir Putin and the crimes that have been done in his name and by his military. It's not clear when there will be accountability for that. And that is, you know, why war remains such an unspeakable tragedy.
BROWN: Susan Glasser, thank you, as always.
GLASSER: Thank you.
BROWN: And if you have questions about the situation in Ukraine, send them to me on Twitter or Instagram and I'll aim to ask them to the experts joining me this weekend, just like I did with Susan.
And to help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, go to cnn.com/impact. CNN viewers like you have helped raise more than $4.6 million so far, that's according to Public Good, the online donation platform partnering with CNN. The help is desperately needed and greatly appreciated. I can just save from my perspective, I've just been so inspired by the outreach of our viewers of this show in particular, but really across the board of CNN.
And coming up on this Saturday night, how runaway inflation in the U.S. is hitting some commodities so hard that people are being priced out of their homes.
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[21:15:03]
KATIA SCHVARTZ, PHOENIX RESIDENT: I would consider living in my car. Yes. I would. Though my sister would never allow it.
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BROWN: Also ahead, the First Lady of Ukraine uses social media to expose the brutality of Putin's invasion. And meet the Americans whose daily lives have been changed by a war that is half a world away. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have two friends who were in their 60s, who said we're taking up arms.
DR. TARAS MAHLAY, SENDING HOSPITAL-GRADE MEDICAL SUPPLIES TO UKRAINE: I call them almost daily. And sometimes you actually hear the bombs.
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BROWN: Russia's war in Ukraine may seem far away but in Parma, Ohio with Ukrainian community of nearly 43,000 people, towns like Kyiv and Mariupol are much more than names on a map. They are home to childhood memories. CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro went to Ohio to hear their stories.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband's entire family is there right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have family that's in eastern Ukraine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have two friends who are in their 60s, who said we're taking up arms.
[21:20:02]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother, his family, my nieces, my nephew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My girlfriend that she's actually in Lviv right now.
MAHLAY: I call them almost daily. And sometimes you actually hear the bombs.
EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cleveland is nearly 5,000 miles from Kyiv. But in these suburbs, the war feels close.
MAHLAY: These are a compilation of different --
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Dr. Taras Mahlay is an internist, not a logistics expert. But these days, he's running a frantic effort to send plain loads of medical supplies to Ukraine.
(on-camera): In your daily life, how much of your time you're spending on this now?
MAHLAY: 18 hours. I mean, I'm usually -- they're going about like around 12:00, then they got up at 5:00 because they can't sleep.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): Why not?
MAHLAY: Well, people are dying.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): His fluent Ukrainian is put to use taking supply requests directly from the embattled nation's Ministry of Health.
MAHLAY: This oncological needs that they sent me.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): And translating them into donations from local hospitals.
MAHLAY: They're already asking for wound vac. I don't know if you know what a wound vac is.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): Now, what is a wound vac?
MAHLAY: So, you know, once you have a gigantic wound and it's draining, and if it gets infected, you put this apparatus on there, and it keeps it clean, and helps to heal. Well --
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): So if I were like shot or hit by shrapnel.
MAHLAY: Correct. Yes, more like treadmill metal. Then now they're just saying this, they need hundreds of them. And it's only been two weeks.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): There's an urgency to every facet of life here now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chemical weapons.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): At Leopold Tyco transfamily bakery, buying pierogies is now a way to do your part.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's that gentleman who was waiting for a dozen. Dozen pierogies from 8:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m. And everything that we sell here on that day, all revenues are going straight to pass through Ukraine.
LIDIA POLATAJKO TREMPE, UKRAINIAN-AMERICAN RESIDENT OF NORTHEAST OHIO: If you want to help to buy them ammunition.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): She's in constant communication with a cousin who's five months pregnant, and fled Ukraine for Poland, leaving her husband behind to fight.
POLATAJKO TREMPE: So just directly after the war --
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): There are thousands of homes here like this one.
POLATAJKO TREMPE: That's my mom, that's my dad.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Where connections to Ukraine run deep.
(on-camera): What is it like to grow up as a Ukrainian-American in this part of Ohio?
POLATAJKO TREMPE: I mean, I -- it's funny, I don't know any other way. We went to Ukrainian school every Saturday, from age five to 17. You know, I didn't speak English until kindergarten. Cousins were not blood relatives. But, you know, the people you went to church with, the people you were in organizations with. The people that lived up the street that spoke the language. They knew the traditions.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): How was it that there are so many Ukrainians right in this part of Ohio?
ANDY FEDYNSKY, DIRECTOR, UKRAINIAN MUSEUM-ARCHIVES: Well, the first Ukrainians came here during the Industrial Revolution. So a lot of people came here, figuring will save some money, go back and buy land. But inevitably, you know, you're here. What do you need? You need a church. You need a bakery. You need a butcher shop. You need a bar. And so, there was infrastructure collection down here.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): In the stacks, a feeling for the history of this place. And these days, something else too deja vu.
FEDYNSKY: So they were in the field from 1942 to about 1950.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): So it's the history of the last insurgency. And then maybe --
FEDYNSKY: Yes.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): -- with the other one soon.
FEDYNSKY: Yes.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): With each conflict, another wave of Ukrainian families came to Ohio, the mayor of Parma is already working with state and federal officials to once again make his city a home for the newly displaced.
(on-camera): Why would this be the right place for refuges?
MAYOR TIM DEGEETER, PARMA, OHIO: Because Ukraine is part of our fabric here. Our primary job here is to plough snow off the streets, fix chuckles but this international event that's happening is unfolding. And because of that deep rooted connection with Ukraine, it's the right thing to do and we're stepping up.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): In the sanctuary of this church, people gathering tonight to pray for a quick end to this war. But in the same building, they're planning for a long fight, packing thousands of pounds of supplies to send to the motherland. Why do you come here every night?
SOLOMIA BIDE, VOLUNTEER SENDING SUPPLIES TO UKRAINE: So I don't cry. I'm not watching the news when I'm here. I'm packaging, I'm running. I'm doing something.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): For these Americans, daily life has been changed by an ongoing war half a world away.
BIDE: So we don't go to sleep until like 2:00 in the morning because that's when the sun goes up and Ukraine. Sun goes up, OK, we can get a catch a couple hours of sleep and keep on going, so.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): Because they made through another night?
BIDEN: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Pam, more than a few Americans are learning the names of Ukrainian cities and about the strength of Ukrainian people as they watch this war unfold. But for these Americans, these Americans Northeast Ohio of Ukrainian descent, they've known how strong Ukrainians are all along.
[21:25:00]
And they know these towns. They have friends and family in them. That's why this war for them is so urgent and why they think that efforts they do here could help their people win in Ukraine. Pam?
BROWN: Thanks so much, Evan.
And we have heard mornings about the possibility of Russia staging false flag operations. Well, a former Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister joins me next to discuss that and more. Stay with us.
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BROWN: Russian troops continue to press closer to the Ukrainian capital Kyiv. Non-military targets like hospitals and schools and apartment blocks have been hit by bombs and artillery. And the United Nations estimates 4.5 million people have either fled their homes or the country to try and save their own lives.
Oleh Rybachuk joins me now. He is the former deputy prime minister of Ukraine for European Integration. Oleh, first of all, let's just talk about the fact that you have been stuck in the United States. Your home is in Ukraine. You came over here a few weeks ago for a security summit. And now you have just been here because you can't go back home and helping as you said to be an ambassador of sorts to those in need of help right now.
OLEH RYBACHUK, FORMER DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF UKRAINE FOR EUROPEAN INTEGRATION: Yes, we have invested but there are not too many Ukrainians who can easily feel at ease in studios like this and who know very well foreign policy.
[21:29:53]
That's my life. I know so many people here. I was here for a year at Georgetown University Foreign Diplomatic School.
I've been coming here many times as director of the Central Bank, as Vice Prime Minister, as Chief of Staff to President Yushchenko. Suddenly I just realized how many friends I have, but I know how important it is what you are doing.
Let me just say again, that I am so impressed by bravery and professionalism of your colleagues over there by what you personally panel is doing. I was watching you these two weeks bed night, because sometimes I saw my home for their lives.
And I know that first time, Russia is totally losing information on what because people like you, like your colleagues are streamlining and every time they open their mouths and lie, you can easily say that this is a lie, though, nobody believes them. And everybody is seeing what is happening in Ukraine, through your eyes, through your colleagues. So again, thank you very much.
BROWN: I mean, the correspondents on the ground there, my job is easy, as I said, you compared to what they have been doing on the ground to bring you the reality because you're hearing the propaganda, and the lies coming out of Russia. But Clarissa Ward, and all the other in tremendous correspondence we have there, they're able to show, you know, this is actually the reality on the ground.
And there is concern right now that that reality could take an even worse turn in the form of chemical weapons. We've heard Ukrainian officials warn about this. I'm wondering from someone who has actually sat by Putin because you were the chief of staff to the former Ukrainian president.
RYBACHUK: Yes.
BROWN: You have looked him in the eye --
RYBACHUK: -- for a couple of hours we talked like that.
BROWN: For a couple of hours, you talk to Putin like this.
RYBACHUK: Closer.
BROWN: Closer. What was that --
RYBACHUK: Now he is keeping 25 meters distance.
BROWN: Right, we see that in the pictures.
RYBACHUK: That time we'll be in sitting small table and we just were talking.
BROWN: What do you think is the next part of this? How do you think this is going to play out because there is a concern of that? As you know, Russia has the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. Are you concerned that it's just going to continue to escalate?
RYBACHUK: You know, I tell you, frankly, he cannot win us militarily. No chance. He would not occupy Kyiv in full understanding of this world. They -- your -- I've been watching CNN, your generals experts have been saying that he cannot simply do it, forget it. The answer is not -- the problem is not here. The problem is with all of us.
You know, President Biden started his presidency saying that this is about war -- competition between autocracy and democracy. That's it. Now Putin first time used nuclear weapons. It was always to deter the Soviets, no Americans, they used have lots of nukes, but nobody was suicidal enough to use them because that can destroy everything.
Putin now use this to blackmail. Putin is a thug, really a thug. He is the person who never believes in diplomacy. He was always believing that -- and he was telling this to me that American presidents, these Western leaders, they are weak, good for nothing, they will never agree. But he believes he can push the button.
And anything he will wish would happen much quicker, much stronger. And he is ready to accelerate, to raise up the temperature so to say. But now the challenges to the democratic world. If you show weakness now, he believes -- that never believes into win-win. He either wins or lose.
So if he is seeing that -- he is hearing that there will be no boots of NATO on Ukrainian territory, no air, he gets this as a green light to go ahead. When he sees that some NATO countries are hesitant, not unified, no miracle happened. Really. I've never seen Western world so unified.
Every time he says this hesitation, he is moving ahead. But I was hearing some American experts already saying that, oh, maybe it's a mistake. We should not just isolate Russia, we should deal with it. There are different plans. Maybe we should sit across the table and agree on some solution there just to stop there.
Putin was always doing like that. He was biting off part of the territory, attacking this, OK, let's know negotiate. This is mine. And in a few years, he would attack again. For me, he's like a cancer. You know, with cancer -- if you have cancer cells in your body, you know that to be cured, you must went through chemical therapy, you may lose your hair, your system may be affected but you will live.
[21:35:04]
Some experts are trying to say that you can -- maybe some cancer cells, they're not so dangerous as they may don't help you. This is like those dreams that with Putin, you can deal on maybe he can come to common senses. He is there to kill all of us. If democratic body, if our immune system will not get out of Putin's type of cancerous Russia --
BROWN: So then what else -- in light of that, what else do you think should be done right now?
RYBACHUK: I know what should be done. And my advice would be, first, stop talking what you can't do. Many experts have been saying, yes, say what you can do. Stop talking that you are not doing that because Russia may think that this is escalation. What are the escalation do you need? They have no almost threat of nuclear disaster. They are talking about chemical (ph). What else do you need to get proved on escalation?
And you've been saying here many times that where we are standing. But with Putin, Putin is the guy who was explaining to the whole world that they never reused regular forces in Crimea. He said, it's not us. Later on, you know what happened.
When he attacked eastern Ukraine, he was saying again, there are no regular troops. When he was asked where you are getting the latest equipment, he says what kind of equipment? You can buy it in the shopping mall. So my advice would be you can't be gentleman with a real crook and thug.
You must -- may not have NATO boots, but there are volunteers. You can supply and you know how to supply weapons. And this is your only chance. When this guy would open his dirty mouth, you can always smile into his face and say, no, we are not there. Where is weapons coming from? They bought it in the same shopping center (INAUDIBLE). In short, you must be creative. You can't be gentlemen with --
BROWN: And --
RYBACHUK: -- psychomaniac.
BROWN: Your view as someone who has been face to face with him closer than we are now --
RYBACHUK: Right.
BROWN: -- is --
RYBACHUK: Right.
BROWN: -- you shouldn't be telling him what you're not going to do.
RYBACHUK: Exactly.
BROWN: OK. Interesting to hear your perspective, really fascinating. And we appreciate you joining the show. And best of luck to you as you are stuck here. As you know, your home there in Ukraine. I know you must have lots of family and friends there right now. So we really wish you the best.
RYBACHUK: OK, and thank you for what you are doing because millions of Americans are watching this. And they demand from their politicians to do much more and the same story across the world. People are moving things ahead. They're forcing or making politicians do something which otherwise politicians would never do.
BROWN: Thank you so much, Oleh.
RYBACHUK: Thank you.
BROWN: We appreciate it. RYBACHUK: Thank you.
BROWN: Hope you'll come back.
Well, millions of Ukrainians have fled their homes trying to get to safety. Up next, a woman who did leave her home, but she hasn't left Ukraine. She'll explain her decision.
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[21:41:55]
BROWN: Right now, many civilians in Ukraine are being forced to choose between their country and their safety. And one filmmaker had to make the choice for herself and her 11-year-old son while her husband stays behind to defend Kyiv. She told me this just last week.
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IRYNA TSILYK, UKRAINIAN FILMMAKER, EVACUATED KYIV: That is such a terrible world refugee. I don't want to be refugee but at the same time, I feel that we need to go to the West because outskirts of Kyiv are probably even more dangerous than the center of Kyiv now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well Iryna Tsilyk has recently moved to Lviv about 350 miles west of Kyiv. And I spoke with her earlier about her decision to remain in Ukraine amid escalating violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Why do you feel it's so important to stay?
TSILYK: It's difficult to explain. But I feel that the place of my power is here. And I need to be connected with my country. And I don't want to be the refugee because, you know, it's something else. At the moment I feel as a person who had to go to some other place to some other city, but I'm still here in my country.
And yes, that is a huge problem because now thousands of -- or even millions of people, they try to protect their families, their children, and they go somewhere else. And in fact, that is a huge problem for all these western Ukrainian cities, and also European countries, our neighbors, who try to help all these people. Because you know, it's not that easy.
There are so many of them. And it's kind of a problem, despite all these beautiful things that people do to help each other. And regarding Lviv, it's not that safe too because, you know, during the day, it looks like peaceful city because cafes and restaurants work. And food stores are full of food and people work with children.
But the sirens wake us up almost every night. And we still have to wake up and to react somehow to hide. But, anyway, I feel that it's much more safe here and I want to stay here as long as it is possible. BROWN: You had to say goodbye to your husband when you left Kyiv. What was that like for you and your son? I imagine it was very emotional.
TSILYK: Once we had that experience, I mean, before because my husband, he used to serve in the Ukrainian army in 2015-16. And of course, it was some kind of surreal experience for my family because, you know, I'm the Modern Woman of 21st century who has to wait for her husband from war. And it's really difficult.
[21:45:15]
But, you know, compare it to many other Ukrainian people now, we are fine. Because --
BROWN: Yes.
TSILYK: -- so many terrifying things happen every single day. And I don't know, I feel such a big pain for all these cities like Mariupol, Volnovakha because they are completely destroyed now, they look like Aleppo.
BROWN: Right.
TSILYK: And we have so many different tragedies. For example, yesterday, 300 orphans from Mariupol arrived to Western city from Kyiv. And as far as I understood, most of them lost their parents during this last 16 days. And we have many stories like that. And, you know, Russian army they attack everyone and everything, like maternity houses, hospitals, churches, I don't know, everything.
BROWN: Yes. It's just --
TSILYK: They even -- yes.
BROWN: It's a discriminant from what we are seeing. Well, thank you so much for giving us this update, Iryna. Congratulations. I understand that American distributor picked up your film, "The Earth is Blue as an Orange." So congratulations on that. And please continue to keep us posted on your wellbeing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well Ukraine's First Lady is using her high visibility on social media to show the world the horrors of war in her country. And she is also a rousing source of encouragement for the Ukrainian people. And like her husband, calling for more international support.
CNN's Sunlen Serfaty has her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ukraine's First Lady Olena Zelenska not mincing words, saying Russia is conducting the mass murder of Ukrainians, giving what she calls her own testimony from Ukraine in a lengthy open letter posted in several languages. "When Russia says that it is not waging war against civilians, I call up the names of these murdered children first," Zelenska says, addressing some of the youngest victims of the war by name.
Since the start of the invasion, the 44-year-old has weaponized her social media, sharing gritty real-time pictures and videos to reflect the reality of the war.
"This is how Ukraine looks right now," she wrote last week. "The whole world, look."
Zelenska's path to her perch in this global crisis started out reluctantly. "I was not too happy when I realized that those were the plans," she has said of her husband running for president, famously first learning of his run on social media. "When I asked, "why didn't you tell me?" He answered, "I forgot."
In the three years since, she has settled into her role as the First Lady, taking on women's rights and children's issues in featured in a glossy spread on the cover of "Vogue Ukraine". Zelenska first met the future president in college. Their relationship growing into love years later.
Like her husband, she, too, worked in entertainment as a script writer, writing comedy behind the scenes at the same studio as her husband. "I am a non-public person," she has said of herself. "I prefer staying backstage. My husband is always on the forefront while I feel more comfortable in the shade."
Their two young children, Sasha and Cyril, she is fiercely protective of. The family of four now, like so many, at the epicenter of war.
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translator): The enemy has marked me as target number one. My family is target number two.
SERFATY: The first lady vowing to remain calm and confident as her own children and so many others are looking to her for strength in this moment.
Sunlen Serfaty, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, Americans are feeling the pain of surging inflation.
Coming up, how people are coping and why some say they're considering extreme measures.
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[21:53:07]
BROWN: Skyrocketing gas prices, escalating rents car prices rising and even the basics like food cost more. They've all led to a 40-year high inflation rate in the U.S. CNN's Ed Lavandera talk to people about how it's affecting their bottom line.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For a cold hard lesson on inflation, step into the refrigerator where Karina Gudino Wollangk stores the food supplies she just bought for her pop up food stamp business in Phoenix, Arizona.
KARINA GUDINO WOLLANGK, OWNER DOWN TO GET TACOS: So usually it would be -- the boneless would be about $1 a pound. Right now it's 184 pounds. This cheese used to be $9, right now, it's all -- it's like $14.56.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Two years ago, Karina opened up down to get tacos, catering special events. Inflation has up ended her business.
(on-camera): Have there been events where you've just lost money?
GUDINO WOLLANGK: Oh, 100 percent. So these are from today.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): As we look over, some of the week's receipts, Karina explains the hardest impact of inflation on a small business owner is how unpredictable her world has become. The demand for her business is there. Everything else is a nightmare.
(on-camera): And that makes it hard for someone like you to run your business?
GUDINO WOLLANGK: Correct. And makes it unbelievably difficult for us to predict any pricing. I can't even say I'm going to charge you a certain price right now because in three days, it's probably bound to change, you know? And it's never for the better.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Phoenix, Arizona has one of the highest inflation rates in the country. The latest statistics show it's three percentage points higher than the national average for cities. And that makes life harder for people living on fixed incomes like Jerreldine Spencer.
JERRELDINE SPENCER, ARIZONA RESIDENT: This was the first one I ever did.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): As she shows us her painting skills, Jerreldine tells us she lives on $1,700 a month in Social Security. She says she pays $600 in rent, and at least $300 a month pays for needed kidney and blood pressure medications. The rest of her bills like home utilities, car fuel and groceries, she finds depressing.
[21:55:09]
(on-camera): How hard is it living on a fixed income?
SPENCER: It is hard. And I feel so sorry for my friends that just don't have this kind of money as much as I do, because they're much worse off than me.
KATIA SCHVARTZ, PHOENIX RESIDENT: So my commute is about a block and a half, which is real nice.
LAVANDERA (on-camera): So you can walk to work?
SCHVARTZ: I walk to work. It's the best.
LAVANDERA (on-camera): That's a cheap gas bill.
SCHVARTZ: Oh, I love it.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): The walk home from the ceramic shop where Katia Schwartz works might save her money on gas.
SCHVARTZ: This is my humble abode.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): But the nights after work are filled with dread searching for a new place to live. In four months, Katia's rent for this 300 square foot apartment is going to jump from $670 a month to just over $1,000. She says her paycheck won't cover it.
SCHVARTZ: I would consider living in my car. Yes, I would. Though my sister would never allow it.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Phoenix home prices have skyrocketed in the last year. Apartments Katia can afford are so far away that paying to gas up her car would then be too much.
(on-camera): I would imagine that battling this at this stage in your life is --
SCHVARTZ: It's really hard. It's really hard. It's -- it makes me feel useless. Like I'm not doing enough.
LAVANDERA (on-camera): Were you worried that --
(voice-over): Katia says she's at stage one panic levels, and the thought of what happens next makes her quiver.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Phoenix, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: I just want to give her a hug. There are so many people out there that are suffering like Katia because of inflation and what's going on just having a tough time making ends meet.
Meantime, a Ukrainian mother woman gives birth just days after surviving a bombing at the hospital she was in. Her incredible story coming up.
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