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Russia Intensifies Strikes Around Capital City Of Kyiv; Russian Airstrike Hits Military Base 11 Miles From Polish Border; U.N.: More Than 2.7 Million People Have Fled Ukraine; Sen. Portman Pushes Back On Idea Of Fighter Jet Deal. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired March 13, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:27]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining me for this special CNN coverage this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta.

We begin this hour in Ukraine. Russian forces expanding their merciless invasion across the independent country. Chaos and panic as a Russian air strike hit a large military base near Lviv in western Ukraine just miles from the border with Poland, a member of NATO. The attack killing at least 35 and wounding more than 130.

In eastern Ukraine, bombardments damaged temples at a historic monastery housing hundreds of refugees and it comes as the Russian grip tightens on Kyiv. Russian forces continuing their slog toward the capital, now just 15 miles from the city's center.

Desperation also growing in Mariupol, under siege right now for more than a week. Officials say nearly 2,200 residents have been killed since the onslaught began and today, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said a key task is getting critical humanitarian aid to his citizens there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Our humanitarian convoys two hours away with only 80 kilometers remaining. We're doing everything possible to fight the resistance of the occupants who block even the Orthodox Church priests who are escorting the convoy with food, water, medication. Ukraine has supplied 100 tons of the basic necessities for its citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And we're also getting word of the first U.S. casualty in this war. Police there say American journalist Brent Renaud was killed by Russian forces in Irpin.

CNN's Scott McLean joining me now live from Lviv and CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is live for us Kyiv. Scott, to you first, the base is just 11 miles from the border in fact

-- instead I'm going to go to you, Clarissa. We'll try to reestablish our connection with Scott in a moment.

But Clarissa with more are you learning from where you are, and I do want to ask you about the area of Irpin where the American journalist was killed. That was an area where we saw you showing us refugees who were crowding under the bridge, finding escape.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fredricka. I mean this is an area where a lot of international journalists and Ukrainian journalists have been spending a good deal of time because it was the place here in the city where you could see that sort of tide of humanity flooding in from some of these hardest hit suburbs, that suburb of Irpin.

We were just there a couple days ago. From what we understand, U.S. journalist Brent Renaud and also another photographer, Juan Arredondo were in Irpin today covering this story and came under heavy fire. Brent, as we know, was killed very tragically. Juan appears to be ok. He's in the hospital getting treated for some kind of a gunshot injury.

All of this underscoring the tremendous danger of covering this story, but more importantly, I think, underscoring the fact that Ukrainian civilians are constantly facing multiple types of targeting, whether it's missiles hitting residential apartment blocks, whether it's mortars hitting civilian evacuation routes, whether it is convoys coming under fire, or checkpoints coming under small arms fire.

There is just a multitude of different threats that civilians here are facing. And the concern becomes that the situation here in the center of the capital, because Irpin is the suburb just to the northwest is going to get worse and worse as we see Russia try to tighten a noose around the capital.

They had taken many areas to the north and to the west but now we've also seen them make a concerted push to the east as well. To an eastern suburb called Brovary. And so as we've heard from Kyiv's mayor, they believe that the idea, or the sort of target here is to fully encircle the city, to continue to bombard it, to cut off food, medical supplies, humanitarian aid, and then essentially squeeze the Ukrainians until the government falls or until some kind of extractions or concessions can be guaranteed that would essentially result in a Russian victory.

[14:04:59]

WARD: Although I will say, Fredricka, that Ukrainian forces are continuing to fight a very tough fight and have managed to inflict a lot of damage on to the Russian side.

WHITFIELD: Those Ukrainian forces very vigilant and defiant. And as it pertains to the gamut of threats that you just spoke of the citizens, what they're facing on a regular basis. As it pertains to this journalist, Brent Renaud, I understand that he had just gone through some sort of check point. And instead of him being victimized by, say, shrapnel from missiles, or other artillery, instead, reportedly he was shot. Do we know whether he was targeted?

WARD: It's very difficult to know in these situations. By my count, there have been now six instances of journalists coming under heavy small arms fire, in or around checkpoints or being ambushed and fired upon.

It's always difficult to ascertain whether they're being targeted because they're journalists or whether they're being targeted in spite of being journalists, simply because we obviously move around in civilian vehicles.

I don't know if the vehicle that Brent and Juan were in had a sort of press identification on it. Probably not, given that a lot of journalists move around, have been going into cars of the volunteers who are helping to evacuate these people.

But again, I think it is just a reminder of the threat that ordinary people here face every day, even when they're trying to just flee to safety.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And we're wishing for the speedy recovery of fellow journalist Juan who was accompanying Brent. Thank you so much, Clarissa.

Now back to you, Scott McLean in Lviv. Talk to us more about this strike on a military base which is just about 11 miles from the border with Poland.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The Yavoriv military base is a sprawling complex. Only about five or six miles from the main road as well, Fredricka, where many refugees are using to meet up with the border check point to get out of the country. As you mentioned also, only about 11 miles from the Polish border and it is that proximity to Poland that many figured would be the reason why this part of Ukraine would likely be spared by Russian military strikes, figuring that Vladimir Putin wouldn't want to get so close to a NATO allied country. Apparently not the case.

Now, this base in particular was used particularly for training American, Canadian, other European troops that come in to train Ukrainian forces in peacekeeping and in combat as well.

And we know that officially, 35 people were killed, 134 were injured. None of them foreigners.

Now, Ukraine has made no secret of the fact that it is forming this international legion as it calls it of foreign fighters who would like to help fend off Russia.

My colleagues on the ground earlier today saw that the area was closed off for several miles, at least the roadways. But they saw in a nearby village some foreigners who were there. They said that they were volunteering to help with medical evacuations.

Now, if you ask the Russians, they say that some 180 foreign mercenaries, as they called them, were killed in the strikes, and also a large cache of foreign weapons. The Ukrainian defense ministry spokesperson said that was pure Russian propaganda.

And Fredricka, one other thing to mention as well, is that the Ukrainian foreign minister is now saying that a second Ukrainian mayor has been abducted by Russian forces. This is the mayor again, the foreign minister claiming this, of a small city in southern Ukraine called Dniprorudne.

CNN is not in a position to clarify that or to confirm that but if it is the case, then it would be the second mayor taken by Russian forces since Friday after the mayor of Melitopol was taken in broad daylight. And since then, an unelected replacement has already been installed in his place, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And then quickly, do we know, Scott, how the mayor of Mariupol (ph) is doing? Do we have any kind of update on his condition after being abducted?

MCLEAN: Not a whole lot of information. But obviously, it is drawing a lot of outrage, a lot of international condemnation, Fredricka. A lot of people thinking while the foreign minister saying earlier that this was evidence of terrorism on the part of the Russians.

And so a lot of people obviously not happy with the situation and not happy with this trend, if it is one, of Russian forces taking elected officials and replacing them with their own people.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Growing more frightening by the day. Thank you so much, Scott McLean and Clarissa Ward. Appreciate you both there in Ukraine.

So for more on these developments now in Ukraine, let's bring in CNN's Oren Liebermann from the Pentagon. So Oren, the president's national security advisor was on CNN this morning. And what did he have to say.

[14:09:56]

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the national security advisor Jake Sullivan was on, not only CNN but a number of other networks and he talked about a number of different topics including that strike that Scott was just talking about, only 11 miles away from NATO. And he made a few points here.

First, he said that despite the attacks that we're seeing, not only there but also in general, Russia growing more brazen on its strikes in Western Ukraine that wouldn't deter the U.S. and NATO allies from sending in the anti-armor, anti-tank and anti-aircraft weaponry that has proven so effective in the hands of the Ukrainian military and in the hands of Ukrainian resistance. He said yesterday, today, tomorrow, those shipments will continue especially because they've done so well to blunt this Russian advance. He was also asked on a separate network whether the calculation of U.S. involvement has changed at all. He said no, it has not and he was asked what would happen if Russia struck NATO territory? If they struck not only 11 miles away from Poland but Poland itself or another NATO ally. And there he said that NATO would respond.

And this has been a clear point not only from Sullivan but also from President Joe Biden and from others. The U.S. would stand by Article Five and an attack on one NATO ally is an attack on all of NATO.

He was also asked about nuclear posture. Has the U.S. nuclear posture changed in light of Russian actions or in light of, for example, Russian President Vladimir Putin saying that he's put his nuclear forces and his strategic forces on a higher level of alert.

Here was his answer there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The escalation risk with a nuclear power is severe and it is a different kind of conflict than other conflicts the American people have seen over the years.

As things stand today, the United States has not adjusted our nuclear posture but it is something that we monitor day by day, hour by hour, because it is a paramount priority to the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: He also talked about the issue of China and whether Russia would be able to use China as a way of averting sanctions. He said if he thought China could do that, they've got another thing coming to them.

He also said look, Russia probably lied to China. China may have gotten a heads up about some sort of Russian he operation but he may have been lied to about the scale and the depth and the extent of that operation, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Oren Liebermann, thank you so much, at the Pentagon.

Let's get more analysis now. Cedric Leighton is a CNN military analyst and retired U.S. air Force colonel. He's joining us right now. Good to see you.

So this Russian attack on a military base just 11 miles from the Polish border and Poland, of course, is a NATO member. This is also where U.S. troops are also stationed.

So in your view, is Russia pushing this dangerously close to direct conflict with NATO? Or is this a threat of intimidation?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Fred, it's absolutely more dangerous now for NATO because as the Russians advance, and this is not a surprise that they're doing this. But it is still ups the ante in terms of, you know, what is next and what could the possible dangers for NATO forces could be.

So Poland, you know, in my view, should be on very high alert. I'm sure they are already. And of course, the U.S. Forces stationed in Poland need to be paying very careful attention to what the Russians are doing.

And some of the things they need to look for are the possibilities such as, you know, Russian fighters crossing over into Polish air space. Things of that nature. Those are the kinds of actions that could happen.

Some of them could be accidental so we have to be very careful, you know, in how we respond to that. But that's the kind of thing that could easily happen in a situation like this.

WHITFIELD: And what does on high alert mean when you say that. Meaning, you know, fighter pilots are, you know, packed and close and ready to go in those fighter jets? Or infantry men same thing? What does it mean exactly?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it could mean that. So basically, what you normally in your clip, they call -- they put those, you know, fighter pilots on what is called "strip alert". And what that means is they are like the Israelis do this, they will sleep by their aircraft and be ready to hop in their jets once the siren sounds and tells them to go. So that's one possibility.

I don't know if they want to go to that extreme but I would certainly be considering it if I were in the shoes of the Polish commander there.

WHITFIELD: Ok. Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said on ABC this week -- this morning that, I'm quoting now, "This is the third facility or airfield that the Russians have struck in western Ukraine in just the last couple of days.

So even if the west were to give Ukraine more air power, are there enough military air bases, air strips to accommodate that kind of traffic?

LEIGHTON: So it depends on exactly what that traffic would be. You know, if you're sending them a bunch of drones, yes, they could definitely get those drones into Ukraine even with these attacks on the air fields.

[14:14:53]

LEIGHTON: If they're sending them MIG-29s or similar jets, that is a much larger aircraft, obviously a manned aircraft has a whole maintenance tail associated with it. That kind of thing could be much more difficult to do as they attack these air fields.

There are some other air fields that they could use potentially for that kind of a resupply effort. But those would then be targeted by the Russians. It would be an extremely dangerous and risky operation.

And you know, if those aircraft, let's say, do bring them in from Poland or wherever, that could then put those aircraft at risk. And given that, it could be an endeavor that doesn't pay any dividends. And that's -- you know, we're too late to the ball game at this point with that.

WHITFIELD: Ukraine's President Zelenskyy posted on Telegram a short time ago a video of him walking to a hospital and visiting with wounded soldiers. And of course, CNN cannot confirm when or where this took place.

But in your view, what is the message that this moment might be sending to Russia's Putin?

LEIGHTON: The message that Zelenskyy is sending is, I'm a war time leader. I am here for my troops. I am here for my nation.

What he's doing is obviously, you know, a morale boost for those Ukrainian soldiers. And he is also telling his nation that I am here to defend the nation along with these soldiers and I recognize their bravery.

So it's definitely a morale boost. And it's a message to Putin that I will not be -- that Zelenskyy will not be cowed, that he will not be put into submission because of, you know, Russia's advances on the battlefield.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And perhaps even though he's being protected in certain bunkers, unknown to most, he is also demonstrating, right, that he is not at all hiding.

LEIGHTON: That's right. It's kind of a Churchillian moment, if you will.

WHITFIELD: Yes. All right. Colonel Cedric Leighton, good to see you. Thank you so much.

LEIGHTON: Good to see you, too, Fred. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, still ahead, more than 2.5 million Ukrainians have fled Putin's merciless assault. But the journey to safety for some presents unique dangers. We'll hear from one woman who made it out of Ukraine. Her harrowing journey to escape the war, straight ahead.

[14:17:11]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back.

The U.S. is raising concerns about the potential for a Russian chemical weapons attack in Ukraine. At a U.N. Security Council meeting Friday, the U.S. Ambassador accused Russia of lying when it said the U.S. and Ukraine were developing biological or chemical weapons. National security adviser Jake Sullivan warned today, it is a well used Russian strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SULLIVAN: It is a very legitimate concern, a fear that Russia would use chemical weapons in Ukraine. They're right now accusing the United States and the Ukrainians of potentially using chemical or biological weapons which is a tell.

It's a tell that they themselves may be preparing to do so and then trying to pin the blame on someone else. That's a classic page out of the Russian play book.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's bring in Mark Malloch Brown. He is a former deputy secretary general of the United Nations and a former vice president at the World Bank. He is also the president of Open Society Foundations which just announced a $25 million pledge to launch the Ukraine democracy fund which I would love to ask you about in a moment.

But first, I have to ask you about what happened at the U.N. on Friday. Ukraine's ambassador (INAUDIBLE) says the Security Council is being manipulated. Do you agree? And how should the U.N. be navigating this war better?

MARK MALLOCH BROWN, FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS: Friday's session was a (INAUDIBLE) really it was sort of black performative art, if you like or black art.

It really was astonishing what the Russians served at that session. And it's hard to know whether they are just ridiculing an institution that always seems in the pocket of American west whether they believe they have enough active disinformation (INAUDIBLE) world's Russian speakers that they can sustain and play at this time.

The bottom line is that Sullivan was just reported saying, it is indicative that they are probably, with the military setbacks they've suffered, contemplating using these weapons themselves, and they're trying to sort of prepare the ground internationally for that. And I think he's right to sound the alarm.

The council meeting was ridiculous but the motive behind it may have been very dangerous.

WHITFIELD: Do you think that Russia is allowed to have the upper hand right now over the U.N. Security Council?

BROWN: Well, a permanent member has the right to bring a subject to the council -- all members do. And they were exercising its right. I think there are people who felt there could have been procedural reasons to block it but equally, there were those who felt, get as much of Ukraine in front of the council as possible getting that it is the number one global security threat is probably a good idea. But I think, you know, what we're seeing is the stresses on a body whose membership was formed in 1945. Permanent membership, with collecting the winners of the Second World War.

The concept behind that, that this group of countries were together in alliance to keep peace, barely survived a year or two before the Iron Curtain came down. We have revived a bit in the post-1989 world but we're now in an entirely new territory because whereas in the Soviet era, there were massive ideological differences and the competition of two ideas about how to govern the world.

We've now got in the P-5, a rogue state. A pariah state led by a leader who is, I think one really has to question his state of mind.

[14:25:00]

BROWN: And this is creating problems. While we should never expect the Security Council to be a (INAUDIBLE) chamber for western like-minded democrats values to represent global (INAUDIBLE) uncomfortable though that is but you do expect that those voices in it will be serious voices as for example the Chinese are. Don't like what they have to say often but they're a critical, important voice.

Russia with Putin's actions made itself highly marginal, and the world seem to question whether it belongs in the council.

WHITFIELD: Indeed, in fact you wrote about how critical the China voice is in a recent op-ed, saying the very last thing that Putin wants to see from the U.N., a clear-cut display of overwhelming global unity.

And so that's where China comes in. It is a lynch pin. Could it be that China could ultimately prevent that kind of unity from happening?

BROWN: Well, in the last 24, 48 hours, there have been growing rumors that China may try to mediate in this conflict. The more important vote at the U.N. was in the General Assembly where 141 member states voted to condemn what Russia has done, and five including China and India abstained and only a dismal five, including Russia, supported the Russian position. Those are countries like Syria, (INAUDIBLE) and Belarus.

So there's an overwhelming number of countries condemning what happened. The Chinese were not willing to support the Russians because I think they are a country that has done very well in the current world order, thank you. It allowed them to dominate global trade.

And they are not the disruptor that Putin's Russia has been. So you know, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it means that Russia and China have some kind of accommodation. It is not one built on much real alignment of values and approach. It is that they're both resent west dominance.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: It also sounds like you're also setting the stage there that China might be refraining from using the kind of leverage that it may have over Russia.

Let me ask you now about --

BROWN: Well --

WHITFIELD: Do you want to comment only quickly? And I want to ask you about your --

BROWN: No, thank you. And I don't want to take time away from that, but just to say I think China does not want a disruptive world. There's some advantage of the U.S. (INAUDIBLE) European conflict, but I think, you know, China, the senior levels of Chinese leadership actually having their own sort of agonizing over this. This isn't straightforward for them.

WHITFIELD: Ok. Now, your group Open Society launching this $25 million fund this week to help defend democracy in Ukraine. So what will that money do? How do you see it making a difference?

BROWN: Well, we reached out to others and actually funding is coming in. You know, we as a foundation have been in Ukraine for 30 years. We've been there since the beginnings of its democratic journey. And we've spend $230 million of those 30 years supporting civil society, supporting, human rights, defenders, open and free media, building the democracy, and sort of much more vibrant open debating culture of Ukraine versus its sort of (INAUDIBLE) solemn, autocratic neighbor Russia.

And you know, this money is intended to keep that Ukraine alive. But there's plenty of resources coming into the generosity of Americans and others toward the immediate humanitarian needs, the physical needs, refugees and displaced war damage. That Putin's real -- what he hates is that sort of democratic Ukraine that is set to rebuke his Russia. That's what we want to invest in. The less obvious place to put your money but it is what this war is really about.

WHITFIELD: Indeed. Mark Malloch Brown. Pleasure having you. Thank you so much.

BROWN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Coming up, we'll go live to the border of Poland where more than 1 million Ukrainians are seeking refuge from Putin's brutal assault. And we'll hear from one woman who was able to escape the war. Her journey to safety next.

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[14:33:50]

WHITFIELD: It's a huge number right now. More than 2.7 million people have fled Ukraine since the Russian invasion began, February 24th. The United Nations says that's the largest exodus of refugees in Europe since World War II. More than half have ended up in neighboring Poland.

Ed Lavandera is at the Poland-Ukraine border crossing.

So, Ed, what have you been hearing from these refugees about their experiences?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, here in Medyka, Poland, this is just feet away from the border crossing point where Ukrainian refugees are taking their first tens into Poland. And you see the looks of desperation and exhaustion on the faces of these families, mostly women and children who have been appearing here and continue to show up here in Poland.

And as you mentioned, more than 2.7 million refugees have left Ukraine, and it is a scene that we continue to see develop here in the neighboring communities here along the border, many of course of which have been filled with refugees.

And what you see in various locations is a number of aid organizations that have come from not only here in Europe but from across the world, trying to find these people refuge and homes they can go to for the unforeseeable future.

[14:35:06]

That is the question lingering over so many of the families. Just how long will they have to live outside of their home country? That is the desperation that they're facing here. And many of the aid organizations that I've been talking on over the last few days here in Poland also say that now that this is going into its third week, there is a great deal of concern of just keeping up the volunteer levels.

One organization says, told us it takes about 120 volunteers a day to man the train station where many refugees are landing for the first time, and keeping up that kind of manpower to help these refugees is becoming very difficult as well. It is an unbelievable scene. It is just after 8:00 at night here, and you continue to see endless amounts of people crossing the border here.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness.

All right. Ed Lavandera, thank you so much. We'll check back with you.

Here's another firsthand account of what it is to make that journey. May next guest faced a grueling 24-hour journey on the train from Lviv in Western Ukraine to Poland, Inna Grynova joining me right now.

And I understand you are a dual citizen of Poland and Ukraine, and you're now at home in Krakow, Poland.

So, how are you doing right now?

INNA GRYNOVA, FLED UKRAINE AFTER RUSSIAN INVASION: Well, you know, it is a very difficult question to answer. From one point of view, I definitely feel safe and I'm happy that I was able to bring part of my family here. If it would just be me, I would not be coming back because I felt really strongly the desire to be there at home in Ukraine with my people, my family. We had to go save my niece. I had to take half my family and bring

them to Poland because my brother, he was not able to leave the country and be with them.

WHITFIELD: And then tell me about that journey involving all of your family members. I understand your brother and his family did drive from Kyiv to pick you up, and you did make an attempt initially, including with your niece.

Tell me what happened and why there were -- why there was more than one attempt.

GRYNOVA: Well, basically, my brother had to travel through the country to pick me up. It took him not one day but two days. And we went the next day to the train station. The information we had was that there is a train and we don't need any tickets. We just need to get there. We get on the train.

When we arrived, you can see the video of what exactly was happening there. It was definitely in some way, the law of the jungle, whoever gets first to the train. By the time we got to the doors, we made a decision not to go through because it was definitely crazy inside. We felt we would not be able to survive in such a place, for like a few hours.

WHITFIELD: I think we reestablished -- there you go, you're back. Go ahead. So you were describing what was --

(CROSSTALK)

GRYNOVA: Yes, so my decision to take the second train.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, and you described what was a survival of the fittest journey. You know, once you get to the train station, you know, people don't necessarily have to buy tickets but if you get there, you have to somehow get on no matter how little space there is.

And because of that experience, you actually created what you called a life hack post, a survival guide. Tell me your tips. You know there are others behind you making this similar journey.

What are some of the things you are trying to prepare people for so they can make this journey?

GRYNOVA: I can tell you that no one was expecting what we experienced. I used to take exactly this train and it was taking two hours. So the main life hack is make sure you have some food with you, because no one had the food. Make sure you have enough water with you, because we didn't have enough. Make sure you don't drink too much, because there is no possibility to use a toilet for the first six or eight hours.

After that, there was no toilet on the train so we had to almost like escape the train car and fight with other passengers to allow us to get out and use a bathroom. It is definitely about wearing in layers, because in different parts of the train car, different temperatures. Some ways, it's going to be like super hot, and now, the place is going to be freezing cold.

And it's about also being ready not to sleep, because unfortunately for almost 24 hours, we were just sat there with hundreds and hundreds of other people and without understanding like how long it will take us. As you already know, it took us 24 hours.

So, the reason I wrote this post was to explain people what to expect. There is not a single person in Ukraine who has ever experienced that.

[14:40:03]

And, of course, when you come unprepared, it creates more stress.

WHITFIELD: Oh my goodness. I mean, all of these times: taking water, you know, having high energy snacks. Knowing that if you're lucky enough to be able to get yourself on that train, it's going to be cramped.

You're going to be -- you may not be guaranteed a seat. You may be standing. All of this is incredibly stressful. I mean, you're about to just touch on it right there. Talk to me about how or is there a way in which to recommend to others who are going to be taking this similar journey, how to manage their stress and that of children?

GRYNOVA: Well, you definitely get connected with people pretty fast. I remember when I just got on to the train, there was a lady on her own with a child. Only like 1 year old, and she didn't have enough hands to carry her bags. I had to take her child and keep him with me, and while she was running trying to get the suitcase and backpack with her. And definitely about trying to cooperate, trying to negotiate, trying to make relations with people with whom you are standing just next on each other.

You can see exactly the crowd. It is almost like in rush hour in the subway. But you are standing in this situation for more than 24 hours.

So this was about trying to use your negotiation skills. But at the same time, to be persistent. There are people who are not able even to negotiate the ability to go outside and that was dramatic.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

Inna, even with all that, do you even remain hopeful that you will ever get back to Ukraine?

GRYNOVA: Of course, definitely. I am such a strong believer in our army. I definitely know my nation will fight to the last moment, like we have hundreds of years of history fighting for our freedom. We got it almost 30 years ago. And under no circumstances can we surrender.

We do rely a lot on the world. We do rely hopefully one day closes the sky over Ukraine but I know our army will be fighting to the last moment. And it is a question, how long it will take us and how many victims we're going to have on this road, but I strongly believe we'll be back. WHITFIELD: Inna Grynova, thank you so much for sharing your

experience, and of course, we hope the best for you and your fellow Ukrainians.

GRYNOVA: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Of course, we've been hearing from you all. Many of you want to know how you can help those in need. For more information about organizations helping with humanitarian aid, go to CNN.com/impact.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:11]

WHITIFEILD: A bipartisan group of senators is in Poland right now meeting with U.S. troops and refugees from Ukraine.

CNN's Joe Johns is on Capitol Hill for us today.

So, Joe, what more can you tell us about this new push to send the U.S. fighter jets to Ukraine?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is a continuing controversy. And quite frankly, the Pentagon has said they're not sure that's a good idea. It could be potentially escalatory and could suggest provocation to Russia.

Of course, this group of four senators traveling in Poland went over to the border today, continuing to press the case on this transfer of aircraft to Ukraine so they can defend themselves, and Senator Rob Portman of Ohio who is leading the group was on "STATE OF THE UNION" today, indicating he doesn't buy the Pentagon argument on transfer of aircraft to Ukraine. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROB PORTMAN (R-OH): The Russians have complained about everything Vladimir Putin has said that the sanctions are an act of war. They certainly complained when we provided stingers directly from the U.S. government, which can knock down an airplane and have been successful doing that at lower altitudes. We have given them helicopters. As recently as January, we provided them U.S. military helicopters and those are directly from the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Here at the Capitol this week, we are expecting more action in the House of Representatives, possibly the Senate, too, to put pressure on Russia, especially economic pressure. In fact, the Speaker of the House said she would like to pass the bill that would revoke most favored nation status for Russia sometime this week. Not clear when the Senate will take that up. WHITFIELD: Right. And, Joe, perhaps should I rephrase that. At issue,

fighter jets that were in possession in Poland, and it would be U.S. fighter jets that could potentially replace whatever jets might be given to Ukraine, just for real clarification.

JOHNS: Right.

WHITFIELD: All right. Joe Johns --

JOHNS: Yeah, it's all good.

WHITFIELD: Right. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

All right. And we'll be right back.

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[14:54:01]

WHITFIELD: A tragic development for one group fleeing violence in Ukraine. A bus carrying dozens of refugees in Italy went off the road and overturned early this morning. Fire officials say one person was killed and several more injured. They tweeted the images that you are seeing now of two cranes attempting to recover the vehicle. Firefighters say it happened on a highway on Italy's northeastern coast and that the cause of the crash remains under investigation.

Around the world, we're seeing growing protests calling on Russia to end the bloodshed. Well, today in Moscow, despite a heavy media crackdown, protesters were seen rallying in the streets, an untold number carried away by police.

While in Kherson, Ukraine, hundreds gathered to protest the occupation there.

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WHITFIELD: And chilling video from that demonstration showing a Russian soldier firing an automatic rifle into the air to disperse the crowd.

[14:55:07]

Defiant Ukrainians jeering the soldier responsible.

And then in Berlin, thousands gathering to show support for Ukraine. The country has already accepted more than 123,000 refugees fleeing the war.

We'll be right back.

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