Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Russia Intensifies Attacks On Ukrainian Cities, Moving Closer To Kyiv; Ukrainian Refugees Tell Horrific Stories Of Attack; Moldovans Open Homes To Ukrainian Refugees; Letter "Z" Emerges As Pro-Russian Invasion Symbol; Zelenskyy: Russia Will Be Held Responsible; U.S. Warns Russia Over Possible Chemical Weapons Use; Many Pro-Putin Russians Blame The West For Conflict; Ukraine Conflict May Make Russians Global Pariahs; War Hits Close To Home For Ukrainian Americans. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired March 13, 2022 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.

HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, everybody. Welcome to our viewers around the world and in the United States. I'm Hala Gorani, coming to you live from Lviv in Western Ukraine, where our CNN team has heard multiple explosions in the city's outskirts just a few minutes ago.

This comes as Russian forces are intensifying their attacks on Ukraine's cities, as strikes continue hammering civilian areas. Let me show you some video now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI (voice-over): Take a look at the upper-left corner in this surveillance footage from Saturday. You can see two explosions hitting very close to an apartment building in the city of Mykolaiv. That is a city near the Black Sea.

And new images also reveal the extent -- the terrible extent -- of the damage in the hardhit southern port city of Mariupol. There are before-and-after satellite images that illustrate this quite starkly, showing the aftermath of strikes on buildings there.

And we are also seeing more damage near the capital of Ukraine, Kyiv. These images posted to social media show the aftermath of Russian airstrikes in the village of Makariv, which is about 50 kilometers west of the capital.

And on Saturday, we also learned that seven civilians were killed while trying to flee a different village near Kyiv. In all, the U.N. says at least 579 civilians, including 42 children, have been killed since the invasion started but cautioned, obviously, that the actual number is likely much higher. Now officials have been working to set up at least 13 evacuation

corridors from different cities in the hope of getting people a chance to flee for safety. Ukraine's government says around 13,000 endangered civilians made it out on Saturday.

But no one was able to escape the besieged city of Mariupol because it is surrounded by Russian troops and Russian-backed fighters. And we are hearing reports that civilians have been targeted as they tried to flee.

The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is pleading for more international help and more aid from allies. He also warned of the threat that may lie ahead if Putin is not stopped.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I keep reiterating to our allies and friends abroad, they have to keep doing more for our country, for Ukrainians and Ukraine because it is not only for Ukraine but it is for all of Europe.

The evil which purposefully targets peaceful cities and ambulance vans and explodes hospitals will not stop with just one country if they have the strength to keep going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Well, the U.S. President Joe Biden just authorized additional military aid for Ukraine after responding to urgent pleas from the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. CNN's Arlette Saenz reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the war in Ukraine in its third week, U.S. President Joe Biden ramping up the pressure on Russia.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Putin is an aggressor. He is the aggressor. And Putin must pay the price.

SAENZ: Today the president directing the State Department to draw down $200 million in the defense services for Ukraine.

And an administration official saying this will include anti-armor, anti- aircraft systems and small arms. As Russia warns the U.S. that convoys of foreign weapons would be considered legitimate targets, Biden sending a warning of his own to Russia.

BIDEN: I'm not going to speak about the intelligence but Russia would pay a severe price if they use chemicals.

SAENZ: But the president remains adamant American troops will not fight in Ukraine on the ground or in the skies.

BIDEN: We will not fight a third world war in Ukraine. SAENZ: The leaders of France and Germany today speaking with Russia's Vladimir Putin, urging an immediate cease-fire. But Russia's bombardment of Ukraine is not letting up. Russian forces are closing in on Kyiv, with the British intelligence assessment finding the bulk of Russian ground forces located about 15 miles from the capital.

Thirty miles west of Kyiv the village of Makariv sustaining wide damage, a gaping hole in this apartment building from apparent Russian airstrikes.

Several hundred feet away the roof of a kindergarten caved in, smoke seen billowing from the building.

[00:05:00]

SAENZ (voice-over): Russia also intensifying its attack. Heavy shelling around the southern city of Mykolaiv. Here a man seen staring at the sky as explosions are seen nearby.

Up north the head of Chernihiv Region Administration showing the destruction in his city. But the resolve of Ukrainian leaders including the country's former president remains strong.

PETRO POROSHENKO, FORMER UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We are not giving up. We are not forgive the Putin these type of things and I am absolutely confident that we will fight in every single house, every single street and every single quarter.

SAENZ: Ukraine's current president still pushing NATO to impose a no- fly zone over his country while warning his entire nation has become the front line of the war.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): This war, a difficult war, has truly united our nation. If you're asking me how's the situation on the front line, there's a front line everywhere.

SAENZ: The U.S. also looking to keep the economic pressure on Russia in the wake of its attack against Ukraine. President Biden announcing the U.S., E.U. and G7 countries will call for revoking Russia's most favored nation status; essentially, allowing for the U.S. and its allies to impose tariffs on a host of Russian goods.

Now here in the U.S., that will require an act of Congress. And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says her chamber will take up a vote on that next week -- Arlette Saenz, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: And joining me now live is CNN military analyst and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, General Wesley Clark.

Thanks for being with us. We heard some explosions; one of our local producers said five loud explosions, not too far from Lviv in Western Ukraine, not too far from this position. It really seems as though the Russians are expanding their military strikes to the Western part of the country.

What do you make of that?

What you think their strategy is at this point?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think the Russians would like to have at least two bands of encirclement around Kyiv, one to close in on the city, a second to keep any resupply or reinforcement out of the city.

This is pretty much standard in urban warfare siege situations. And we have to remember that Vladimir Putin's orders were to encircle and besiege Kyiv and then force a change in the government.

So, yes, it's been really tough on the Russians. They've had poor command and control, poor planning and perhaps the wettest winter and warmest winter in 10 years in the area.

So traffic ability (ph) is bad but they are eventually going to be able to -- or at least try to complete that encirclement from the west, as well as up from the south and the east. So this is where the battle will be fought to prevent Kyiv from being encircled.

GORANI: And let's talk about the south as well. I mean we saw the extensive damage in Mariupol. The Russians have been able to take two towns. But they are not able still to completely take and occupy and hold big cities.

What's your take on the southern part -- that southern front, where Russia is obviously trying to create a contiguous territory, swath of territory, in the south?

CLARK: Yes, Mariupol is a real obstacle. And they are doing everything they can to reduce it. And they lack the forces to actually go in and clear it, block by block. So what they are doing is they're pounding it, basically, hoping that they'll kill or starve or otherwise disable the population as well as the military that's in there.

And of course, from the Ukrainian side, it's really important that they hold out because this city will (INAUDIBLE) reinforcement. It also will be crucial if and when there is ever any diplomacy that ends this conflict, because that will be determined by the facts on the ground.

So I think the Ukrainians are doing an extraordinarily heroic job in Mariupol. What needs to happen is the United Nations needs to --

(CROSSTALK)

GORANI: -- yes. Sorry. Finish your thought.

CLARK: Yes. The United Nations needs to step in here. We would have -- the United Nations in any other place wouldn't allow something like this. This is absolutely against international law.

And yet, here we are, with a Russian military siege of a city, killing thousands of civilians.

And where is the United Nations in this?

Why is there not a U.N. safe zone there?

Why is there not a humanitarian corridor to let relief supplies get in?

This is simply an outrage in the 21st century. And I hope the United Nations will step up and do something about it.

[00:10:00]

GORANI: The Russians are saying that they will consider that any foreign military and weapons shipments to Ukraine from outside countries, that those could be considered legitimate targets. I mean, this is just getting us ever closer to a direct confrontation between NATO allies and Russia.

Do you find that concerning?

CLARK: Well, absolutely. But we also -- we always knew this was going to be the case. I mean, there was a lot of brave talk before this happened, that, well, don't worry. We'll continue to send in weapons and so forth. But you got to get the weapons in.

Now as of now, the Ukrainians are doing all that. So of course, they are a target to the Russians. Everybody in Ukraine is a target to the Russians.

But there is an implicit threat here against NATO nations and against the storage depots and transit facilities in NATO nations. And should that happen, Russia should be under no misunderstanding, NATO will not tolerate that.

So I think that this is all part of this push and pushback struggle that we're in. And the United Nations needs to step in and resolve this.

GORANI: All right. General Wesley Clark, thanks very much as always for your analysis.

CLARK: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: Just to reiterate, just about 1.5 hours ago or so, our CNN team heard multiple explosions on the outskirts of Lviv in Western Ukraine, not far from our position. One of our local team members said that the walls of her house started shaking and that she heard around five explosions.

And we will bring you the latest on what we believe the target might have been, once we get more information and we are able to confirm those details. Now of all the terrifying pictures coming out of Russia's bombing of

Ukraine, few images are as harrowing as these, pregnant women, in labor, being evacuated from a maternity hospital that the Russians are bombing, like this woman, who fled that bombing and gave birth the very next day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI (voice-over): This is Mariana Vishegirskaya, heavily-pregnant and escaping from the wreckage of recently bombed Mariupol maternity hospital.

And this is Mariana Vishegirskaya, a day later in a new hospital and the proud mother of a daughter, Veronika.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).

GORANI (voice-over): The attack on the Mariupol maternity hospital drew widespread condemnation. The images of pregnant women being rescued from the attack made front pages around the world. The searing image was taken following a Russian airstrike on the hospital Wednesday that injured 17 people, including children, women and doctors, according to Mariupol city officials.

Three people died, the city council said Thursday; among them, a child.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: (Speaking foreign language).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI (voice-over): The Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov claimed without proof that the hospital was housing a Ukrainian battalion. And this wouldn't be the first medical facility to be hit. The World Health Organization has identified 24 separate Russian attacks on Ukrainian hospitals.

Despite the toughest possible start in life, Veronika was born in another Ukrainian hospital when Mariana was evacuated. The family is not disclosing their location for safety reasons.

Her aunt, Tatiana Liubchenko, told CNN Veronika was born healthy and around three kilograms. There was no electricity in the hospital and the temperature was minus five degrees outside.

She says she hopes, "Sufficient conditions will be provided for the baby to stay healthy." A child born into a world of danger but her very existence in this time of war, an act of defiance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: Still to come, a single letter not even found in the Russian alphabet has become a potent symbol of the war in Ukraine. What it is and what it means to pro-war Russians. Plus, when refugees arrive in a new country, the future can seem

pretty bleak. Coming up, we will meet some families who have opened their homes and their hearts to those fleeing conflict.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:15:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

GORANI: Well, every day, thousands of people flee the fighting in Ukraine in hopes of making it to safety. A sports hall was turned into a temporary shelter, hosting some of the more than 300,000 who have fled to Romania.

Many are sharing details of their escape from war, telling some pretty horrifying stories of Russian attacks near their homes and warning that Putin's aggression might not stop with Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELENA PUGCHOVA, ODESSA REFUGEE: I can't speak without tears. I'm sorry but I'm really sorry for my country and nobody could expect this really. This is awfully, awful things. The bomb can come -- how come they are bombing Mykolaiv?

It is only 120 kilometers from Odessa and it's painful inside.

DYMITRI PROPENKO, UKRAINIAN BASED IN CHINA: I think that we need more support for our people right now to stand against this. If Ukraine can fall, the next will be Europe because, for Putin, there is no -- there is no stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: All right. An old quote says, "War brings out the worst and the best in people," and some of the best can be seen in a Moldovan village, within earshot of the Ukrainian border.

Moldova has received more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees. As Ivan Watson reports, people in one village are opening their homes and their hearts to Ukrainians in need.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the day Russia first attacked Ukraine, residents of this sleepy village in Moldova heard explosions.

RUSANDA CURCA, MOLDOVAN ACTIVIST: You can hear, sometimes, the explosions from Ukraine. It's terrifying.

WATSON (voice-over): It's not just the sounds of war that are coming across the border; refugees of the conflict have come here, too. [00:20:00]

WATSON (voice-over): Some Moldovan villagers have hope opened their doors to their Ukrainian neighbors in their time of need, people like Boris Makayev (ph). This 75-year-old widower welcomed Olga Kuznetsova (ph), her mother and two children into his home after they fled across the border last week.

"I feel badly for them," he says. "The children are small. This little one is innocent."

Boris holds 2-year-old Andrei (ph) as if he was his own grandson. These Ukrainians have never been to Moldova before. But they fled after spending days and nights hiding from Russian airstrikes in the basement of their home.

WATSON: The family left on very short notice after hearing warplanes through the night. They packed two suitcases and left with five minutes' notice.

WATSON (voice-over): With no advance planning, the women rely entirely on the generosity of Moldovans for food, shelter and clothing, including for 8-year-old Vera (ph).

VERA, 8-YEAR-OLD UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: (Speaking foreign language).

WATSON: Vera says there are very kind people here in Moldova.

What made you want to help?

CURCA: I don't know how to act differently, you know?

Rusanda Curca has been helping find homes in the village for a few dozen of the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that have fled to Moldova in the last two weeks.

CURCA: So because it's normally to help people in need. Some people are hosting refugees. Other are donating products, stuffs, things. And others are just praying for peace.

WATSON (voice-over): Down the road from Boris' house, we meet Valentina Cherniy (ph). She took in her Ukrainian sister-in-law, Olga, and family, including 29-year-old Nataliya (ph), who is seven months pregnant.

"We have to stop Vladimir Putin," Olga tells me, "or else he will just keep going, invading countries like Moldova and Poland."

As she speaks, Olga's 14-year-old daughter fights to hold back tears.

The Moldovan government says tens of thousands of refugees are living in the homes of ordinary Moldovans, an extraordinary act of collective kindness from one of the poorest countries in Europe.

Asked how long he could afford to continue hosting this Ukrainian family, Boris Makayev (ph) told me, "They can stay as long as they need" -- Ivan Watson, CNN, Moldova.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: Just to update you there on the explosions we heard just before 6:00 am here in Western Ukraine, we understand that according to the local officials here, that Russia has fired eight missiles at a military base 55 kilometers northwest of our position here in Lviv.

According to preliminary data, those were eight missiles fired. I mentioned just before Ivan Watson's report that one of our local producers said she heard at least five explosions and that it shook the walls of her house. Officials say they are checking on any casualties there on the ground.

But just to reiterate, this strike coming very close to Lviv in Western Ukraine, 55 kilometers or so northwest of the city, trying to hit a military base, which includes a military training center for Ukrainian soldiers. We will bring you more details as they become available to us.

Now protests in support of Ukraine are going strong in many countries. Thousands of people gathered in Kyiv's twin Italian city of Florence to watch the Ukrainian president speak on a big screen as blue and yellow Ukrainian flags waved above their heads.

In the speech, broadcast to dozens of European cities holding protests, Zelenskyy called for more sanctions against Moscow as well as a no-fly zone.

Ukrainians and Israelis gathered in Tel Aviv to denounce the invasion and chant slogans. Many of them had the same message for Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SASHA LORIA, PROTESTER: Just go out of Ukraine. Just leave those people alone. They're normal people. They don't want war. They don't want anything. They just want independence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI (voice-over): And hundreds packed a historic square in Munich with signs saying, "Stop Putin" and "Putin kills Ukrainians," comparing the Russian president to the brutal Soviet dictator, Joseph Stalin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: A new pro-war symbol has emerged in Russia and it is a symbol of division between those who believe Russia is right in invading Ukraine and most everyone else, who see it as pure aggression. Phil Black has that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's impossible not to notice.

[00:25:00]

BLACK (voice-over): Many of the Russian vehicles invading Ukraine carry a distinctive mark.

Trucks, tanks, fighting, engineering and logistical vehicles, they are advancing through Ukraine with the letter "Z" painted conspicuously in white.

The people being invaded have noticed. Here in the Eastern Ukrainian town of Kopianz (ph), an angry crowd swarms after and attacks a single vehicle. It's only obvious connection to the war, the letter "Z."

ARIC TOLER, RESEARCH AND TRAINING, BELLINGCAT: It's almost certainly some kind of tactical grouping. There's a million different theories about what the "Z" means. But I think it's just marking, just easy to do, easy thing to mark. It's like a square or triangle.

BLACK: In a war, where the wannabe conquerors are not flying their national flag, that single character has taken on a special significance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).

BLACK: At a recent gymnastics World Cup even, 20-year-old Russian competitor, Ivan Kuliak, accepted his bronze medal wearing a "Z" prominently on his chest. He was standing next to a Ukrainian athlete.

The sports governing body described it as shocking behavior.

But how do you describe this?

Terminally ill children and their carers formed a giant "Z" outside a hospice in the Russian city of Kazan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's disgusting that the state is co-opting young children to be propaganda mechanisms for their war.

BRIAN KLAAS, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE, LONDON: It's dangerous when small little symbols become proxies for being a loyal citizen in an authoritarian regime during the time of war. Because those who don't wear it, those who don't show the "Z," could be targeted by the state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).

BLACK: And in this highly produced propaganda video, Russian men wearing that letter declare their support for the invasion. Chanting, "For Russia, for the president, for Russia, for Putin."

An aerial shot shows a giant "Z" made from the orange and Black at the St. George's River. A traditional symbol of Russian military glory usually associated with a victory over Nazi, Germany.

By accident or design, a character that doesn't feature in Russia's alphabet has become an iconic symbol of Putin's invasion and the propaganda campaign to win support among his people -- Phil Black, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: And remember, if you want to help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, go to cnn.com/impact. As of Saturday afternoon, CNN viewers like you have helped raise more than $4.6 million, according to Public Good, the online donation platform that's partnering with CNN on this.

And obviously, the help is desperately needed and greatly appreciated. We'll be right back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:30:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani live in Lviv, Ukraine. We are tracking reports that Russia has fired eight missiles at a Ukrainian base northwest from where we are here in Lviv. Officials say they are checking on casualties.

And this, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, is pleading for more Western aid, even though he says Russian troops are taking major losses in his country. He says more than 360 Russian tanks have been put out of commission. And Russia has lost the use of 31 tactical battalion groups.

Ukraine says close to 13,000 civilians were evacuated from the areas affected by fighting on Saturday but that, sadly, seven people, including one child, were reportedly killed by Russian fire while trying to flee near Kyiv.

Mr. Zelenskyy says Russia will be held responsible for what it's doing in his country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We have to stand firm and keep on fighting. Every night and every day we should be fighting for ways to destroy, to harm the enemy, in all the directions.

We will achieve and we will reach what's ours so that all the occupiers and all the collaborators will know that Ukraine will not forget, never, nothing. Ukraine will not forget. Ukraine will find them and will call them to responsibility, each one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Well, the staff at Ukraine's Chernobyl nuclear plant is basically living there. That is the word from the International Atomic Energy Agency. The Chernobyl and Zaporizhzhia nuclear plants are under Russian

control, according to the IAEA. The Ukrainian crews are working under tremendous pressure while managing the plants and while being occupied by Russian troops.

Let's not forget, Chernobyl, you will recall, is the site of the world's worst nuclear accident. The plant has lost external power, which it needs to cool used nuclear fuel. And it is currently running on generators.

In other developments, the U.S. President, Joe Biden, has warned Russia there will be a price to pay if it uses chemical weapons in Ukraine.

The warning came after the White House said Moscow may be planning to do that while falsely accusing the U.S. of developing chemical weapons in Ukraine. CNN's Katie Polglase takes a closer look at Russia's false narrative.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCHER (voice-over): The foreboding music, biohazard warnings --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking Russian).

POLGLASE (voice-over): This Russian state media footage from 2015 claims to show America running facilities in Ukraine and Georgia that caused deadly outbreaks of disease and killed local livestock.

This story is false. But that has not stopped it continuing to circulate, evolving from biological hazards to biological weapons and becoming a key part of Russia's disinformation campaign: justifying the invasion of Ukraine.

POLGLASE (voice-over): The claims were debunked several years ago, when, in 2020, the United States issued a statement to, quote, "set the record straight," explaining the facilities are, in fact, for vaccine development and to report outbreaks caused by dangerous pathogens before they pose security or stability threats.

But this week, the story was back.

MARIA ZAKHAROVA, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY (through translator): We are confirming the facts that were unveiled during the special military operation in Ukraine that indicate an emergency cleanup of military biological programs by the Kyiv regime.

[00:35:00]

ZAKHAROVA (through translator): They were carried out by Kyiv and financed by the United States of America.

POLGLASE (voice-over): Multiple times, the Russian foreign ministry has resurfaced the debunked story. On Tuesday, it was mentioned by a Russian ally. ZHAO LIJIAN, SPOKESPERSON, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY (through

translator): It is reported that those biolabs store a large number of dangerous viruses. During Russia's military operation, it was found that the U.S. is using those facilities to conduct biological militarization activities.

POLGLASE: So alongside these official statements, it is being repeatedly shared across social media, from Facebook to Twitter to Telegram. And CNN's been tracking its spread. And you can see here it's been posted in Canada, Australia, Germany.

And this tweet is one example. You can see it's been retweeted over 500 times already.

POLGLASE (voice-over): The theory has now attracted attention of figures and platforms with significant followings in the United States.

STEW PETERS, CONSPIRACY THEORIST: Go into Ukraine and take out the biolabs.

POLGLASE (voice-over): Such as the conspiracy theorist Stew Peters and has been featured on the far-right platform, Infowars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. bioweapons labs in Ukraine.

POLGLASE (voice-over): And so, Russia's false narrative on American biolabs in Ukraine continues to spread -- Katie Polglase, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: And picked up by people in the United States, even though it's been so firmly debunked. Paula, there you have it, another front in the war, the information and misinformation war raging.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Hala and it has been a profound effect on this conflict. We will hear from you again in just a few minutes.

But in the meantime, we have all been asking, what would it take for a permanent cease-fire in Ukraine?

World leaders are putting the question to the man who started the conflict -- Russian president Vladimir Putin. The latest on those diplomatic efforts, after the break.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:40:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

NEWTON: German and French leaders urged Russian president Vladimir Putin to declare an immediate cease-fire in Ukraine during a 75-minute phone call Saturday. Now French president Emmanuel Macron and German chancellor Olaf Scholz appealed to Mr. Putin for a diplomatic solution.

But a source said Mr. Macron was disappointed by the, quote, "insincerity" of his Russian counterpart.

Now earlier Saturday, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that, after refusing to budge for days, Russia had adopted a fundamentally different approach in the latest talks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Jill Dougherty is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. She is also a former CNN Moscow bureau chief.

And, Jill, really such a beloved colleague of mine. It is good to see you back in Washington. You were there for several weeks, as you have been doing for the better part of three decades, I might add, going back to Russia.

Again, today, we have world leaders reaching out to Vladimir Putin; no signs of wavering, Jill.

Do you believe that it is sanctions that may make the difference here?

I mean Putin, himself, has said that this is economic war.

JILL DOUGHERTY, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY AND WILSON CENTER: Exactly. That's the word he uses, although you can't you know, talk about the war as war anymore in Russia.

But you know, I think that is the question, Paula, whether ultimately sanctions can change his mind, because they show no sign of doing that. It's still relatively early, you know; there -- this was the biggest packet of sanctions ever.

And so, it -- they are having effect actually quite quickly. But, ultimately, that effect will grow and grow. And there could be more sanctions down the tube.

So will that, short of destroying the Russian economy, will that stop Vladimir Putin?

And, at this point, I would have to say no.

NEWTON: Yes, which is depressing to think of, especially when you think of people at this hour, in their basements, at cities and towns across Ukraine, still being battered.

So many people are saying through all of this, what are Russians thinking?

They can't possibly approve of this.

I mean what did you see in terms of opinion, the anecdotal evidence that you might have from Russians, some who are saying they don't believe their own family members who may be caught up in the violence in Ukraine?

DOUGHERTY: You know, I -- I think it depends on what Russians you are talking about. So if you take, let's say, the voters for Vladimir Putin, which would be, you know, middle-aged people who are not necessarily on the internet, big Putin supporters, they are watching Russian state television.

And what they are getting is a diametrically different vision of what is happening in Ukraine. They are not seeing the death and destruction in the main part of Ukraine, in Kyiv and some of the other cities.

They are seeing, you know, the war in the Donbas region, in which Russians have been under attack. And, you know, of course, the Kremlin is saying it's genocide, which is not correct.

But in any case, they are seeing a very distorted picture of really what is happening overall in Ukraine. So what they think is that Russia is defending Russia, that Ukraine is being used as a tool by NATO and the United States to attack Russia.

So those people are on board with Putin, at least at this point. Then, you have younger people, people who are more open to the West, who are on the internet all the time. And they have a different view.

In fact, of course, we have seen these protests against the war. And people are sometimes quite brutally arrested or at least detained. So it depends on who they are.

But I think the factor that will have an effect will be these sanctions because, you know, ideological support for the president is one thing.

But when the rubber hits the road or, as they say, the refrigerator issues come out and people really are dealing with an economy that's tanking, products that they can't buy, massive inflation, they may very well decide this is not worth it.

Now my question is, who will they blame?

Will it be Putin?

Or will it be the West?

And we don't really know that yet.

NEWTON: Yes. And some believe that, in fact, they may turn against the West and blame them for everything they are suffering through the economy.

[00:45:00]

NEWTON: And yet to dive into that a little bit deeper, Jill, you know, Russians are now really the targets of collective punishment. They are being treated, in some instances, as global pariahs. You know, a lot of people have been saying, look, we should be cancelling Putin, not Russians. And yet, Ukrainians, Jill, I am sure you have heard them tell us,

look, Russians are complicit in their silence.

Is this really fair, though?

I mean, you and I have spoken to dozens. You have probably spoken to hundreds of Russians over the years, who want to speak out but can't. And this would be over years and years of, allegedly, atrocities being committed in their name.

DOUGHERTY: Right. Even -- it really is a dilemma because you take -- let's take an average Russian, educated, maybe wants to go abroad to study or something like that. There have been isolated cases, where universities say no more Russian students.

Or it becomes very difficult to get visas. Or they don't -- they can't travel. They, ultimately, are paying the price for Putin's war.

But you have to somehow punish or try to stop Putin from doing what he is doing. And, unfortunately, some, you know, Russians, who are really innocent of this, are going to suffer.

I, personally, do not believe that you can punish people and say, you know, silence equals support for Putin. It's very difficult. You just pointed that out. It's very difficult for people to speak out. Even right now, going onto the streets to protest, is very dangerous. So it's -- it's a terrible dilemma.

And I think one of the problems is, if Russians feel that they are pariahs for the wrong reason, if they are pariahs all over the world, this is going to feed into that narrative that has been -- that preceded the Ukrainian conflict, that preceded it and says, essentially, the West hates us. They don't want us after all. They hate Russia.

That narrative is very dangerous because it feeds the idea that it should be a fortress Russia against the West.

NEWTON: Yes. And dangerously, it could further embolden Putin. Jill Dougherty, thank you so much. We will continue to check in with you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Ukrainian Americans are working around the clock to send aid back home. When we come back, we go to a town in Ohio, where Ukraine is a whole lot more than just a place on a map.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:50:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

NEWTON: The war in Ukraine is, of course, thousands of miles away from any Americans. But for those in Parma, Ohio, with a Ukrainian community of nearly 43,000, towns like Kyiv are much more than just those names that we are pointing to on a map right now. They're home to childhood memories.

CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband's entire family is there right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have family that's in eastern Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have two friends who are in their 60s, who said we're taking up arms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother, his family, my nieces, my nephew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My girlfriend that she's actually in Lviv right now.

MAHLAY: I call them almost daily. And sometimes you actually hear the bombs.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cleveland is nearly 5,000 miles from Kyiv. But in these suburbs, the war feels close.

MAHLAY: These are a compilation of different --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Dr. Taras Mahlay is an internist, not a logistics expert. But these days, he's running a frantic effort to send plain loads of medical supplies to Ukraine.

(on-camera): In your daily life, how much of your time you're spending on this now?

MAHLAY: 18 hours. I mean, I'm usually -- they're going about like around 12:00, then they got up at 5:00 because they can't sleep.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): Why not?

MAHLAY: Well, people are dying.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): His fluent Ukrainian is put to use taking supply requests directly from the embattled nation's Ministry of Health.

MAHLAY: This oncological needs that they sent me.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): And translating them into donations from local hospitals.

MAHLAY: They're already asking for wound vac. I don't know if you know what a wound vac is.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): Now what is a wound vac? MAHLAY: So you know, once you have a gigantic wound and it's draining and if it gets infected, you put this apparatus on there and it keeps it clean and helps to heal. Well --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): So if I were like shot or hit by shrapnel.

MAHLAY: Correct. Yes, more like treadmill metal. Then now they're just saying this, they need hundreds of them. And it's only been two weeks.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): There's an urgency to every facet of life here now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chemical weapons.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): At Leopold Tyco transfamily bakery, buying pierogis is now a way to do your part.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's that gentleman who was waiting for a dozen. Dozen pierogis from 8:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m. And everything that we sell here on that day, all revenues are going straight to pass through Ukraine.

LIDIA POLATAJKO TREMPE, UKRAINIAN-AMERICAN RESIDENT OF NORTHEAST OHIO: If you want to help to buy them ammunition.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): She's in constant communication with a cousin who's five months pregnant and fled Ukraine for Poland, leaving her husband behind to fight.

POLATAJKO TREMPE: So just directly after the war --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): There are thousands of homes here like this one.

POLATAJKO TREMPE: That's my mom, that's my dad.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Where connections to Ukraine run deep.

(on-camera): What is it like to grow up as a Ukrainian-American in this part of Ohio?

POLATAJKO TREMPE: I mean, I -- it's funny, I don't know any other way. We went to Ukrainian school every Saturday, from age five to 17. You know, I didn't speak English until kindergarten. Cousins were not blood relatives. But you know, the people you went to church with, the people you were in organizations with. The people that lived up the street that spoke the language. They knew the traditions.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): How was it that there are so many Ukrainians right in this part of Ohio?

ANDY FEDYNSKY, DIRECTOR, UKRAINIAN MUSEUM-ARCHIVES: Well, the first Ukrainians came here during the Industrial Revolution. So a lot of people came here, figuring will save some money, go back and buy land. But inevitably, you know, you're here. What do you need?

You need a church. You need a bakery. You need a butcher shop. You need a bar.

[00:55:00]

FEDYNSKY: And so, there was infrastructure collection down here.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): In the stacks, a feeling for the history of this place. And these days, something else too deja vu.

FEDYNSKY: So they were in the field from 1942 to about 1950.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): So it's the history of the last insurgency. And then maybe --

FEDYNSKY: Yes.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): -- with the other one soon.

FEDYNSKY: Yes.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): With each conflict, another wave of Ukrainian families came to Ohio, the mayor of Parma is already working with state and federal officials to once again make his city a home for the newly displaced.

(on-camera): Why would this be the right place for refuges?

MAYOR TIM DEGEETER, PARMA, OHIO: Because Ukraine is part of our fabric here. Our primary job here is to plough snow off the streets, fix chuckles but this international event that's happening is unfolding. And because of that deep rooted connection with Ukraine, it's the right thing to do and we're stepping up.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): In the sanctuary of this church, people gathering tonight to pray for a quick end to this war. But in the same building, they're planning for a long fight, packing thousands of pounds of supplies to send to the motherland. Why do you come here every night?

SOLOMIA BIDE, VOLUNTEER SENDING SUPPLIES TO UKRAINE: So I don't cry. I'm not watching the news when I'm here. I'm packaging, I'm running. I'm doing something.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): For these Americans, daily life has been changed by an ongoing war half a world away.

BIDE: So we don't go to sleep until like 2:00 in the morning because that's when the sun goes up and Ukraine. Sun goes up, OK, we can get a catch a couple hours of sleep and keep on going, so.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on-camera): Because they made through another night?

BIDE: Yes. MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Evan McMorris-Santoro, CNN, Parma, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: And we will be right back with more of our breaking coverage in a moment.