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Russia Bombs Residential Building; Civilians Able to Escape Mariupol; Russia Asked China for Help; Peter Zwack is Interviewed about China and Russia Kurt Volker is Interviewed about Peace Talks. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired March 14, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:25]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, right now, a fourth round of attempted peace talks is underway, but the fact is on the ground, Russia's brutal assault across Ukraine not letting up. In the capital city of Kyiv, an attack on a residential area has killed at least one person, an attack like so many we've seen in the country.

A very good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

As Kyiv fights off Russia's hostility, several heavy explosions reverberating across the city this morning. So the damage you see here on your screen is apparently the result of a Russian missile intercepted by Ukrainian air defense batteries.

Meantime, in the besieged city of Mariupol, we're told that city now completely surrounded. There is new video in to CNN which shows Russian tanks here firing at residential buildings. Officials say 2,500 people have been killed across that city so far. Among them, this pregnant woman and her baby injured when a maternity hospital was bombed last week.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and Russia says it's only striking military targets. The facts, your eyes tell a different story.

This is what we're seeing in the south. Intensifying attacks in the west of the country, too. A barrage of Russian missiles struck a military base just 11 miles from Ukraine's border with Poland, a NATO ally. Those missiles left dozens dead, more than 100 injured. Those are the pictures there.

There are continuing signs of Ukrainian resistance. Satellite images show that the Ukrainian military stopped an attempt by Russian forces to cross the Irpin River on a pontoon bridge.

CNN following every major development across Ukraine, as well as here in Washington with the Biden administration's response.

CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward, she is in the capital Kyiv.

Clarissa, it was an active morning there. You heard a lot of explosions and saw missiles streak through the sky. Tell us what's going on exactly.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, there's been a lot of fighting this morning, Jim. And, in fact, the microphone won't pick up on it here, but there's still just a continuous rumble going on in that direction. It sounds not just like incoming, but also outgoing, because Ukraine forces have certainly been putting up quite a fight against the Russian forces as they try to encircle the capital.

You mentioned those three loud explosions that we heard late this morning Ukraine time. They came from that direction. And what we believe they were is essentially a Ukrainian missile defense system trying to take down a Russian jet. My cameraman, Scotty McGwini (ph), was able to capture an image of the contrails of that jet plane. It does not appear that it was taken down. But we certainly heard a lot of noise as those Ukrainian missile defense systems were activated.

Also this morning, as you mentioned, a very close call for residents in a building in Obolon, which is a Kyiv suburb, but it's really just five steps on the -- on the ground, on the metro from here. Remarkably -- this was a residential apartment building. One person was killed, several injured. But when you see the damage to that building, Jim, you really -- you know, frankly, it's a miracle that there weren't more people killed.

Now, having said that, as you know, millions -- it's believed roughly 2 million people -- have already fled the city of Kyiv, although, of course, there are thousands of people pouring in every day from the suburbs which continue to be hit hard.

One more thing. You mentioned those negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegations. They have been underway. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy put out another video statement where he said, quote, that the meeting is ongoing. Everyone is waiting for news and we will report this evening. This is the fourth time a Ukrainian and Russian delegation have held these talks. Obviously, this time they're not in person. It's being done over video conference.

But, still, a huge amount of expectation, not necessarily I should say optimism, but certainly anticipation, hoping that potentially this could bring about some kind of a cease-fire, although, you know, people are waiting to get their hopes up, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: That's for sure. Clarissa, appreciate it. Thank you.

Want to bring in now CNN international correspondent Scott McLean, who's live in Lviv.

Scott, the mayor's office in Mariupol has said that civilians are finally able to get out of the city through a humanitarian corridor. What more do we know about that corridor?

[09:05:04]

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Finally, a little bit of good news from there in Mariupol. This is a city that has been under siege for a week or more. It has been impossible for most people to get out of the city. Many have been sheltering in frigid cold basements. The International Red Cross says that many people are running out of food, if they haven't already run out of food. Obviously, it is a dangerous situation for even adults. It is even more dangerous for children.

And so the mayor's office now saying that there is a working humanitarian corridor out of the city through to Zaporizhzhia. It does have to stop through one Russian-controlled area. At least one Russian-controlled area. But for the time being, the mayor's office says that some 50 private vehicles have been able to get out via that corridor.

We don't have an update at this stage of the game as of the status of the humanitarian aid which Ukraine has been trying to send into that area. At last word it was stalled about 50 miles outside of the city. And as we know, it is badly, badly needed.

The Red Cross, which has been serving as sort of a mediator between the two parties on the ground to try to implement these corridors has been pleading with the sides to agree on the specifics of where and when these corridors will be operational and to respect whatever it is that has been agreed to. It has been very difficult to get information as to who has agreed to what.

We know that last Wednesday there was an agreement in place for about 12 hours for there to be a cease-fire to allow people to get out. And on that day, the Russians bombed a hospital. And we're just finding out today that one of the women, pregnant women, who was photographed on that day, both her and her baby had died. The surgeon who tried to save their lives in the aftermath said that they did an emergency c section to try to at least save the baby. He was taken out without any vital signs and resuscitation on both of them obviously failed. And so it is a dire situation there in Mariupol, but perhaps a little bit of good news coming.

And one other thing to mention, Erica. Obviously, where I am in Lviv feels like a million miles away from where Clarissa is in Kyiv. And certainly from what they're experiencing in Mariupol. This could be any European capital on any day of the week. And so a lot of people -- I just spoke to one family from Kharkiv who spent a week in a cellar. Now they're out enjoying the beautiful sunshine. Obviously, the worry here is that as these Russian air strikes get closer and closer to Lviv and inch further and further west in Ukraine, a lot of these people here may soon be headed for the exits.

SCIUTTO: Scott McLean, that is a sad fact because it's been something of a lifeboat, the city of Lviv.

Good to have you there. Please stay safe.

As Russia expands its military assault across Ukraine, and that is a fact, a senior U.S. official tells me that Russia has asked China now for military assistance in Ukraine. I'm told that Moscow's request includes military drones. We're also told that Russia is seeking economic assistance from China as well.

CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood from the State Department.

And, Kylie, this is potentially significant if China were to accept this request, it would put Russia and China on one side of the war in Ukraine, U.S. and NATO on the other. Do we know China's response yet?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, a U.S. official that I spoke with indicated that China had responded but wouldn't detail what that response actually looked like.

But, Jim, it's significant that these reports are out there today because national Security Adviser Jake Sullivan is meeting today with his Chinese counterpart. And rest assured that this topic is going to come up in those discussions.

But I want us to listen to what Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser, said to Dana Bash over the weekend about how clear the United States has been with China about the consequences that they will face if they provide economic or miliary support to Russia at this time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We are communicating directly, privately to Beijing that there will absolutely be consequences for large-scale sanctions, invasion efforts or support to Russia to backfill them. We will not allow that to go forward and allow there to be a lifeline to Russia from these economic sanctions from any country anywhere in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, it's also significant the timing of these requests that we are reporting that have come from Russia to China. They came after the invasion already occurred. U.S. officials have said that they believe China knew that Russia was planning this invasion. But the fact that these requests came into China after Russia was already embarking on this invasion is significant. We don't know exactly why those requests came at that time, but, of course, we have reported that Russia has faced logistical problems, fuel shortages and the like as it has gone forth with this invasion. And I also want to note that the U.S. -- excuse me, the Chinese

embassy spokesperson here in Washington said that they had no idea about these requests and said it's China's intent for this to not turn into a full-blown crisis, to try and maintain it.

[09:10:10]

Jim.

HILL: We'll be watching to see what happens there.

Kylie, thank you.

Joining us now to discuss, retired Army Brigadier General Peter Zwack.

Good to have you with us, sir.

I just want to pick up on Jim and Kylie's reporting there. When we look at a potential, right, for Chinese involvement, we have this stern warning from Jake Sullivan that there would absolutely be consequences. Realistically, what would those consequences be and are they enough to deter any sort of Chinese involvement or help for Russia?

BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good morning.

Yes, the Russia-China relationship is key to parse out. Let's remember that around the 4th of February -- my God, that was just five, six weeks ago, Putin, Vladimir Putin was in Beijing for the opening of the Beijing Winter Olympics. And to some of us he appeared to be a bit obsequious, a supplicant to Xi, obviously knowing, I think in his mind, that the Russians were going to launch after the Olympics. I have no idea what was said or not said, but I do believe that the message from the Chinese was, whatever you do, don't mess with our Olympics.

China is a so-called strategic partner of Russia. That doesn't mean it wants to go to war on behalf. But it is being uncomfortably, in my mind, dragged into something. Now, China, unlike Russia, is very integrated into the global markets. And sanctions and measure measures will certainly, if you will, stunt, if you will, Chinese long-term plans, and they do think long.

But, lastly, China would see itself weakened, isolated, if Russia actually were to badly fail because they have each other's back diplomatically, economically and in the worst case militarily. But what that means and how far the Chinese would go, we all don't know, which is why it's right that people are having or will be having hard discussions with Xi Jinping's regime.

SCIUTTO: General Zwack, you're aware there's been a very public debate about the degree of U.S. and NATO military support for the Ukrainian military. The latest issue has been whether or not to supply these Polish fighter jets. I've been told by U.S. military officials that that less impactful than surface to air missile systems, then air defense systems, that those are proven more crucial to Ukraine's military defense, and that is the focus now, not just the stinger shoulder-fired missile systems, but perhaps mobile, more sophisticated surface-to-air missile systems.

Do you agree that those weapons systems more impactful and should be the focus rather than fighter jets?

ZWACK: Yes, I have -- and I'm on the record at being against at this time a no-fly zone and actually having our fingerprints, putting in, if you will, MiG-29s and all that. But the Ukrainians -- but the -- we have to pull back, and I pull my own mind back. My God, the Russians are in the middle of a continuing, unprovoked brutal aggression of a peaceful country. And, yes, and I'm all for the sanctions and that. But something more increasing needs to happen.

And, yes, you can bring in platforms into western Ukraine, Lviv and in that area, but the Russians, we just have to be ready. The Russians will come after them.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

ZWACK: And that is -- and we have to be ready for the consequences, even if they were to go cross-border to what, in their minds, interdict platforms coming over.

HILL: How much of that planning is actively happening right now? Because I think we're hearing a couple of different messages out of Washington. We're seeing a real push, it would seem, from members of Congress, perhaps a slightly more reserved reaction in some cases from the administration. But give us a sense, based on your experience, how ready is the U.S., how ready are NATO partners if, for some reason, there is a Russian attack? We keep hearing about the protections in place, but, realistically, what's happening right now?

ZWACK: I think that -- I think that increasingly --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER): Is frustrated by the fact that his forces are not making the kind of progress that he thought that they would make against major cities, including Kyiv, that he is expanding the number of targets, that he is lashing out and that he is trying to cause damage in every part of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: General, sorry about that.

[09:15:01]

We inadvertently rolled a bit of sound of Jake Sullivan making that point again though.

ZWACK: Important (ph).

HILL: But, please, continue with what you were -- what you were saying. ZWACK: Yes. Well, again, and that was just -- we all have to be

flexible. And on the NATO side. And I want to emphasize, friends (ph), that this should not be about the U.S. and NATO. This is the U.S. and Europe. And there are other nations that are in the EU, neutrals, that this is the time everybody needs to be focused.

Yes, there is -- I think what we're seeing with the hit of the Avariv (ph) training ground, which has been in action (ph) for -- open for 25-plus years, plus this is where all the peace -- the Ukrainians have been involved in Afghan peacekeeping with us and NATO and in Iraq. So this is far more than just a NATO staging base.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ZWACK: It's a partnership for peace. Also a lot of neutral countries have trained in there.

But, yes, the Russians are now taking the conflict into western Ukraine. They know, in their minds, to finish it, they've got to finish the west, which is -- which is even harder core than the east.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ZWACK: And if Kyiv falls, there's no guarantee that the conflict is going to stop because of western Ukraine, its proximity to European nations.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ZWACK: So, we're far from over.

SCIUTTO: No question. And it shows the nationwide ambitions of Russia as they carry out missile attacks across the country.

Brigadier General Peter Zwack, thanks so much.

ZWACK: All the best. Be safe.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, I spoke to volunteers from countries around the world, including the U.S., who have been stepping up, offering to fight, in some cases die, to defend Ukraine. The reason they are putting their lives on the line for a country that's not even their own. That's just ahead.

Also, fourth round of peace talks underway. Up next, we're going to speak to Kurt Volker, he's former U.S. ambassador to NATO. Are these negotiations worthwhile? Are they likely to yield results?

HILL: Plus, tributes pouring in for an American journalist shot and killed by Russian forces while reporting in Ukraine. The latest just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:21:31] HILL: New this morning, we are learning of a missile strike in Donetsk, a city currently held by Russian-backed separatist forces. Videos, which have been geolocated by CNN, show there were at least several fatalities on a main street in the city center, as well as a large number of injured. Now, remnants of the missile can be seen. It is not yet clear where it came from, who fired it. Separatist forces have accused the Ukrainian side of launching that missile.

SCIUTTO: People caught in the crossfire, sometimes the target of Russian fire.

Right now, a fourth round of talks between Ukrainian and Russian negotiators are ongoing. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calls the talks, understandably, difficult. This comes after several more civilians were killed in a series of Russian attacks across Ukraine over the weekend. Some of them seemed deliberately aimed at civilians.

Joining me now to discuss is the former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker. He also served as the U.S. special envoy for Ukraine in the Trump administration, now a senior adviser for The Atlantic Council.

Ambassador, good to have you on this morning. Thanks for taking the time.

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: You've been involved in your share of talks, discussions, including with the Russians. Do you see these negotiations between Russia and Ukraine, given that Russia's positions remain the same and its military advance remain aggressive, do you think they're good- faith talks or a delay tactic by Russia?

VOLKER: I think that they are a delay tactic, if you will, or just a window dressing for Russia's military aggression. They have no serious interest in finding a solution right now. They are pressing their military further and further toward Kyiv and other cities. And I think they're becoming more and more desperate as they reach for additional tactics, such as bombing civilians and talking about CW (ph) or BWUs (ph). So, I don't see these negotiations as serious at the moment.

SCIUTTO: Speaking of Russia's desperation, if you want to call it that, or at least need, it's our reporting that Russia has reached out to China for military assistance, as well as economic assistance. The Kremlin's request, I'm told, includes a request for military drones.

Does this make what to this point has been theoretical talk about expansion of the war to something involving a world war-like conflict, to have Russia and China on one side, and the U.S. and NATO on the other? What are the dangers?

VOLKER: This is a huge danger. I don't think the Chinese, as we heard General Zwack say earlier, I don't think they want to get sucked into this. They wouldn't mind helping Russia on the financial side because there they do have an interest in breaking up the western-led economic order in the world. But, militarily, I think they're going to be very cautious. If they were to become more involved, that would be one more element of internationalization in this. Putin has also already used the territory of Belarus. And I would not at all be surprised to see that he ends up hitting NATO forces, even if by accident, as we are supplying the Ukrainians and then he is trying to knock out those supplies.

SCIUTTO: You're aware of the public debate right now about the level of U.S. military assistance for Ukraine. The U.S. sending a whole host of weapons that have had an impact on the battlefield but so far has taken, for instance, a no-fly zone off the table, also downplaying the importance of sending, for instance, these MiG-29s from Poland to Ukraine.

VOLKER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Do you believe there should be more aggressive U.S. military assistance, and to what degree, without stepping up to the point of American planes, for instance, shooting down Russian planes?

[09:25:02]

VOLKER: Yes. So, first off, concerning the MiG-29s, I do think that is an important step to take still. I just got word over the weekend from a friend in Ukraine who has a friend who was shot down in his (INAUDIBLE). He survived. He's a pilot. And he needs a new plane. So I think the Ukrainians are quite capable of using these and are asking for them. We should try to provide them.

We should also provide air defense systems and shore-to-ship systems. This attack on the base in Yavari (ph) was a cruise missile from a ship. Ukrainians have got to back those ships away from the coast and take some out if possible.

On a no-fly zone, I do support this. I think what we're seeing with the attacks on civilians is unconscionable. But I do accept that there is a much greater risk of coming into direct contact with Russian aircraft.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

VOLKER: And here I think the communication has got to be very clear. We are not seeking a conflict with Russia, but we will defend ourselves if attacked.

SCIUTTO: You were, of course, a veteran of the Trump administration and testified during the impeachment of Trump for his withholding of military assistance to Ukraine in 2019. This, of course, was in the midst of Russia's first invasion of Ukraine, as well as occupation of Crimea.

As you look back on that now, do you believe that the president connecting that military assistance to political help was unacceptable and impeachable?

VOLKER: Well, I'm not going to pass judgment on impeachment. The House and the Senate already played their roles on that. In terms of military assistance, as you know, I was one of the people

who was arguing that we needed to continue and increase this. And, indeed, it was partly because of my efforts and those of others that we got the javelins into Ukraine in 2017. We should have increased even more, and it's taken really only until this war in Ukraine, Russia's aggression, that we finally are upping the assistance. We should have done it long ago.

SCIUTTO: Yes. But do you believe that the president, standing in the way of assistance at the time, the former president, weakened Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression at the time?

VOLKER: Well, as a practical matter, we never held up the assistance. As you know, there was a decision made by the president to put a hold on notifications to Congress about assistance. And within about two months we got that lifted. I think it was a mistake to do that, and we reversed it. And the, you know, arms did not stop flowing. It was just still never enough. And as you said also, the political signaling there was terrible.

SCIUTTO: Ambassador Kurt Volker, we do appreciate you joining the program this morning.

VOLKER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Ahead, all hands-on deck. Russia's non-stop attacks on Ukraine now threaten many people from around the world. I spoke to U.S. Marines as well as others in Ukraine putting their lives on the line to help defend the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)