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Ukrainian Refugees Fleeing to Poland; President Biden May Travel to Europe. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 14, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

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Don't go away, busy day. Ana Cabrera, Anderson Cooper pick up our coverage right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for joining us. Anderson Cooper is in Lviv, Ukraine.

And just in to CNN, we are learning White House officials are having early discussions about President Biden traveling to Europe, including a potential stop in Poland. And that could be a crucial diplomatic play, especially now that Russia has killed 35 people just miles from the Polish border in a devastating airstrike on a military base right on NATO's doorstep.

This comes as a fourth round of talks between Ukraine and Russia are put on hold until tomorrow.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: There is no pause, however, in Russia's offensive.

Overnight in Kyiv, unrelenting attacks on residential buildings, scenes of horror and heroism trying to evacuate people from that building. Still, a U.S. senior defense official says that Russian advances remain stalled. Officials also telling CNN Russia has asked China for economic and military support, including drones, for this invasion, something the administration is watching very closely.

CNN is covering this from across the globe, starting with Clarissa Ward in Kyiv and Kylie Atwood in Washington.

Clarissa, what have you been seeing in Kyiv after this string of strikes?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson has been a lot of noise and a lot of fighting today in Kyiv. Honestly, it's really been going on throughout the day in a way that we haven't heard on other days.

It's a little bit quieter now, though I can still hear some booms in the distance. We did start the day, though, with a large attack. A shell hit a residential building in the suburb of Obolon, which I should say is just five, I think, subway stops or five underground metro stops from here in the center.

You look at the images, Anderson, and you can't believe how it's possible that anyone survived. One person was killed, and several were injured. But you can imagine how much worse that could have been. A lot of people obviously have already fled Kyiv, the capital, as Russian forces continue to push in, trying to essentially surround the city.

They have taken a lot of areas around the north, the west. They are making a big push now on the east as well. We did also hear some loud explosions in the late morning. We believe that was Ukrainian air defense systems intercepting some kind of a missile. And there was some damage from that interception. Shrapnel fell onto a key of city bus. Again, at least one person was killed in that attack, but, remarkably, not more people dead in that attack.

And now everyone is watching very closely to see what is going to happen and when we will learn more about the results of these negotiations that have been going on today between a Russian and Ukrainian delegation. This is the fourth set of talks. This one was held not in person, but via videoconference.

And President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said earlier in another address he made to the people of Ukraine that they are watching anxiously. They have requested a cease-fire, even a temporary cease-fire, to try to facilitate more evacuation of civilians, more humanitarian aid into those hardest-hit places.

And he said that he expected to be able to offer some kind of an update in the evening. As you see, it's just gotten dark here in the last hour or so. So we're watching closely to see if those talks will lead to any positive conclusion or at least any glimmer of some -- the contours of some kind of diplomatic path emerging, because, at the moment, Anderson, on the ground here in Kyiv and in many cities across this country, it feels very grim indeed.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, to see the destruction of some of those buildings just from today.

Kylie Atwood at the State Department, China is an X-factor right now. There was a high-level meeting between National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan, a top Chinese diplomat today.

Do we know anything that came out of that?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're still waiting for the White House to give us a readout of that meeting.

But significantly, it came as reports came out just today understand, including our own reporting, that Russia has asked China for economic and military support as part of their invasion into Ukraine. Of course, this could be significant, if China were to provide any of that, because it could upend the control that Ukraine has maintained in some of those areas, really trying to hold on in Ukraine.

[13:05:06]

Now, we should also note that we don't know exactly why Russia asked China for this support. But it does come off the heels of our own reporting that Russia has faced logistical challenges as part of their invasion into Ukraine. They have faced fuel shortages and the like.

And, just today, a senior defense official is saying that almost all of Russian advances in Ukraine remain stalled and that their efforts over the weekend towards Kyiv, the capital city, didn't go all that far. So they're actually seeing Russia try to backfill some of their forces that are on the front lines right now.

So, of course, this request to China -- we don't know exactly when it came -- in recent weeks is significant, because it comes at a time when Russia is facing challenges on the ground.

Now, the Kremlin is denying that they made any such request, claiming that they have the capacity to continue carrying out this operation, also claiming, as we have heard from Russia, that things are going as planned, even though that does not match what U.S. officials are saying Russia expected in terms of this invasion.

And we're also hearing from China that they didn't receive any such request, claiming that they don't want the situation in Ukraine to escalate anymore. So we will watch to see what that means in terms of if they are going to make any determination after this meeting with the national security adviser to say if they will be providing support to Russia or not -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes.

Kylie Atwood, appreciate it. Clarissa Ward, thank you.

I want to come back to Ana in New York -- Ana.

CABRERA: And let's get some analysis now.

We're joined now by CNN military analyst retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton and CNN global affairs analyst, "TIME" magazine contributor Kim Dozier.

Great to have both of you here.

Colonel, before this invasion, some assessments were the Putin might only try to annex chunks of Eastern Ukraine. But now we're seeing attacks on a military base just 12 miles from a NATO border in the western part of the country. What does that tell you about Putin's military objectives here?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Ana, this is, I think, really, really important, because, as you see right here, this -- the international peacekeeping insecurity center is really close to the Polish border. That's a NATO country.

And what that means is that Putin has expanded his efforts. He's now moving into the West. Right now, we're only talking about air attacks. We're not talking about troop movements into the area around Lviv and all these other cities right in the Western part of the country that borders on NATO. All this is going on while other things are happening throughout the country, in the north, in the east, and, of course, in the south.

But we're seeing an expansion of the war at this point, Ana.

CABRERA: And when you look at that map, what's really noteworthy here is, this strike near that border, Ukrainian officials are saying the missiles were fired by war planes over the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.

So, I wonder, would a no-fly zone prevented that?

LEIGHTON: Well, probably not, if the no-fly zone, Ana, was only over Ukraine.

But we're looking at -- if you're launching something from the Black Sea right here or the Sea of Azov, that's outside of Ukrainian airspace. And a no-fly zone would have to have the right rules of engagement, so that any aircraft that we're flying over these areas would also have been covered by that.

None of the proposals that I have seen so far would have covered that possibility.

CABRERA: So, Kim, Russia's campaign just seems to be getting worse and worse, especially when we talk about the impact on civilian lives. And yet we're hearing from some Ukrainian officials, as well as a U.S. official, that there is some optimism around the talks.

We know there was a fourth talk today put on hold. But I do want to read the comment from the Ukrainian presidential adviser, who says he thinks they will achieve concrete results in the next few days.

I wonder why the optimism. What do you think?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said in an interview yesterday that he is now cooling to the idea of joining NATO, because he says NATO doesn't want them.

And if you talk to NATO officials, they will tell you privately they cannot take on board as a member a country that is even partially occupied, much less in the middle of a full-blown war, because it immediately triggers that Article 5, which means all of the NATO nations would have to help them expel Russian forces.

Zelenskyy realizes that this means all Russia has to do is just keep occupying Crimea, and they're never going to be able to join NATO. Therefore, why not make a deal to stay neutral and get at least some of his country back? CABRERA: So, you think that may be where this is headed?

DOZIER: It's his own realpolitik for the survival of his nation.

But if Russia thinks that they're close to taking Kyiv, I don't know that Vladimir Putin's ego would let him step down from this continued attack. In terms of, yes, the Russian forces are stalled, but one of the ominous reasons they might have reached out to China is not because they were running out of stocks, but because they're thinking of this not in days and weeks, like we are, but in months and years.

[13:10:25]

Vladimir Putin had a plan that got him to this point. He may just be planning to grind on with this campaign for as long as it takes to get either the territory he wants or the concessions he wants.

CABRERA: Right now, NATO is saying -- or, I should say, the U.N. is estimating 636 civilian deaths. And yet we hear from some of these local officials, like the mayor of Mariupol, who is saying the death toll in that city alone is in the thousands.

Why do you think we're seeing such discrepancy in terms of the loss of life?

LEIGHTON: Well, because the U.N. officials that would normally go on the ground and verify these figures for themselves by literally looking at hospital wards, they can't get to a lot of the contested areas right now.

And I heard from a U.N. official who said, look, we're putting out the figures that we can confirm in -- with our strict methods, and we're constantly updating them.

Meanwhile, those Ukrainian officials, they're in the middle of the fight. They are where the people are dying.

CABRERA: Let's talk about where the fight is right now.

Colonel, as the Russian assault expands all across the map, one place where it appears slow going on the ground at least is Kyiv. Why is that?

LEIGHTON: Well, there's several reasons for that, Ana. But the main thing is logistics.

Let's take a look here in the northwestern part. So we have heard a lot about Antonov Airport right here. This was originally supposed to be a staging area for Russian special forces to come in and then use that as a bridgehead, basically, to get into Kyiv, because it's really close to that city.

Well, that assault ended up in failure for the Russians. The Ukrainians took that back for a while. And it was long enough to stall out the blitzkrieg-like attempt that this Putin onslaught actually was trying to accomplish. But now what you see is movements here and in this area right in the

northeast that are moving a little bit closer to Kyiv. In fact, they're basically touching the city limits. But they're not able to go into this area right around here. And one of the big reasons that we have in this particular area is, of course, there's geography.

And, in this case, the Dnieper River is right in this area. And when we have a situation where a bridge is destroyed, a pontoon bridge is destroyed by the Ukrainians, it shows that the Ukrainians are putting up an amazing fight that is actually preventing the Russians from moving forward and encircling the city.

And, as a result of that, their goals, their long-term efforts are actually being stymied, at least temporarily by the Ukrainian forces.

CABRERA: Colonel Cedric Leighton and Kim Dozier, thank you both so much for being with us.

LEIGHTON: Thank you.

CABRERA: Nearly three million Ukrainians have now escaped the war, including a pregnant woman who is now set to give birth to her daughter right here in the U.S. She's here in New York City, due in just a couple of weeks. She's going to join me next.

Plus, why the price of gas could soon start falling again.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:40]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

The Biden administration says it is now weighing options to expedite some Ukrainian refugee cases, this as President Biden faces growing calls to grant special tourist visas to Ukrainians who have family in the U.S..

The goal? Make it easier for refugees to come here and to allow them to potentially resettle sooner. And, right now, the fight to escape that war-torn country is perilous for so many.

And joining us is Olesya Ostafieva. And Olesya arrived here in New York City just days ago after fleeing the war in her home in Kyiv. She is now due to give birth to her daughter in less than two weeks.

Olesya, thank you so much for coming in.

OLESYA OSTAFIEVA, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: Thank you.

CABRERA: I'm so glad that you and your baby are here and safe.

I can only imagine how stressful this time is and how worrisome it must be for you. I can't help but notice the shirt that you're wearing here today. Clearly, you want to send a message too. Tell me about that.

OSTAFIEVA: It's my message for USA, for West, Western parliaments, and for our partners, because Ukraine -- every day for Ukraine, it's horror. Every day for kill -- for childs, for mothers.

Today -- into today morning, I received the news that mother from -- a woman from Mariupol was -- dies with her baby. She was pregnant. And when Mariupol maternity hospital was attacked, she die.

(CROSSTALK)

OSTAFIEVA: And it happen every day. Every day, hundreds of Ukrainian civilian dies.

They dies from the sky. We have a great army, but our army on ground. And we need help from the sky. We need jets. We need no-fly zone. And we need it not in months or tomorrow. We need it now.

CABRERA: Yes.

OSTAFIEVA: Because a lot of dies right now.

CABRERA: I want to hear more about your story and why you decided it was no longer safe to stay.

OSTAFIEVA: My maternity hospital was bombed on first day of the war. And...

[13:20:01]

CABRERA: Where was that?

OSTAFIEVA: In Kyiv. It was in Kyiv.

It was in Kyiv. And I decide to find more safe place. But now a lot of maternity hospital work in bomb shelter. I now -- my friend say that mother -- 50 women was -- deliver in bomb shelter. During the day, they spend time in bomb shelter, and all of them civilians.

A lot of people was blocked in the Bucha, Irpin, Irpin without electricity, without food. My close friends, they spent seven days in bomb shelter without electricity with his son, 2-old-year son, and with his wife.

CABRERA: Wow. Wow.

So, you were actually in a bomb shelter for four days before you decided you needed to get out of Ukraine.

OSTAFIEVA: Yes.

CABRERA: You went to Poland, I understand, with your sister.

OSTAFIEVA: I didn't want to leave Kyiv.

And now I want to return to Kyiv as soon as possible, because I don't want to be refugee. I don't want to start new life in other countries, because all my life, all my friends, all my relatives in Ukraine. And more than two million people who leave Ukraine now, they all want to return to independent, free country, without Putin, without Russian culture, without a new history.

We are free country. And we want to live in peace. And now we need support from other countries, because I know that Western politics say that they don't want to -- escalation situation. But we all understand that Putin not -- don't need a reason to fight. Maybe, tomorrow, it can be Poland or Lithuania or Germany.

He don't need a reason.

CABRERA: It's really great to understand and hear your perspective, as somebody who lives in Ukraine. I understand how strong that pull is to go back, to be in your homeland and with your family, especially during this really important time in your life, as you welcome a baby daughter into the world.

OSTAFIEVA: Yes.

CABRERA: I understand that you're naming your daughter Kira (ph), which means strong woman.

OSTAFIEVA: Yes.

CABRERA: What do you hope she learns about this time, as she now comes into this world?

OSTAFIEVA: One month ago, I known about all my plans by next year, but now my daughter sound bomb, sound crying. She felt my horror every day.

And I want to stop it for my daughter, for all childs in Ukraine. And for me, I'm very thankful for you that you asked me now, because it's a chance to say all politicians that it must be stopped today.

And a lot of people now in humanitarian catastrophe in Mariupol, in Kharkiv. And they need support today.

CABRERA: Olesya, thank you so much for coming in.

OSTAFIEVA: Thank you.

CABRERA: You are so brave and so strong. And wishing just the best of health and safety, and good luck and strength for the next journey in your life.

OSTAFIEVA: Thank you. Thank you so much.

CABRERA: And now we're going to go to Poland, where Ed Lavandera is talking to others who have fled Ukraine -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are here at a train station on the Polish-Ukrainian border. This is where tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees are fleeing to safety, but it's also a world of uncertainty.

We will have the story of one woman evacuating her mother to safety while she plans to return to Ukraine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:28]

COOPER: I'm Anderson Cooper, Lviv, Ukraine.

Right now, Poland is being overwhelmed by the number of refugees pouring over its border. As you can see, the line of people seems endless at this one checkpoint. Resources there are becoming strained, according to officials, and places for people to stay are running out.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is on the Polish-Ukrainian border. He joins us now.

Ed, you have been witnessing people coming at all hours. I talked to you last night around 4:00 a.m. local time. What have you been seeing today?

LAVANDERA: Well, now we are at the train station in Przemysl, Poland, which is a few miles away from the border where we were last night.

Ukrainian refugees will come off the platforms there.