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Russian Attacks Escalate. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 14, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:30]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Our teams in Kyiv have heard several explosions near the Ukrainian capital. Authorities say there are casualties after an apartment building was hit by shelling. And look at this. A pedestrian just walking down the sidewalk, and then a strike hits in the middle of the road, just yards away.

CAMEROTA: A senior U.S. defense official says almost all of the Russian convoys on the ground in Ukraine are stalled. In Ukraine's Western city of Lviv, a Russian missile strike on a large military base killed at least 35 people on Sunday, and that base is roughly 11 miles from the border with Poland, meaning the Russian attacks are getting closer to NATO territory.

And then there's this.

BLACKWELL: That's new video out of the decimated southern city of Mariupol. And then we have this video. This was taken from a drone today. You can see the buildings here just enveloped in smoke.

Officials estimate that 2,500 people have died there. That's from the local officials.

CAMEROTA: And the death toll also rising after that bombing of a maternity hospital in Mariupol last week.

You will remember the gripping photo of an injured pregnant woman on a stretcher with blood all over her stomach. Her surgeon tells Ukrainian television that that pregnant woman has died, and so did her baby.

A fourth round of talks between Russia and Ukraine have been paused until tomorrow.

CNN's Anderson Cooper is with us now from Lviv in Western Ukraine.

Anderson, it seemed as if Lviv had been, let's say, insulated from the attacks. That was until this weekend. What more do we know about this strike at a military training center?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, actually, there was just air raid sirens were just going off. They just stopped now. People will be waiting for the all-clear in order to come out of any basements they may have gone down in to.

You're right. Lviv really has not -- Lviv has not been directly hit. There have been a number of attacks, as have been reporting, over the last week or so in the west of Ukraine, which is not really seeing the kind of attacks obviously the rest of the country has been seeing.

There were two strikes at airfields earlier. And then, of course, this massive attack at a training center. Now, this is a training center, as you said, it's near the Polish borders. It's about 26 miles from here in Lviv.

There were back before the invasion began U.S. -- there were U.S. forces training Ukrainian forces at that center. And it's been used as a training center for a long time, since 2014. But according to a senior defense official, they say that there were no -- there are obviously no U.S. military personnel at that base.

And they say that there's no indication that the missile strike, which was cruise missiles from bombers, according to this defense official, there's no indication that that has in any way impacted the flow of weaponry, the flow of supplies from the west into Ukraine.

They say that point, that base was not being used as a transshipment point.

CAMEROTA: So, Anderson, that attack in Lviv that you're talking about, it came after the Kremlin said that they would target any incoming military shipments from the U.S. or other allied nations.

So now what happens to new supplies trying to get into Ukraine?

COOPER: Yes, as I said, the U.S. officials say this attack will have no impact on supplies coming in, because that's not what this was being used for. But the supplies, they, say are still able to get through. As you know, Russian forces have not been able to encircle Kyiv at this point.

It's obviously a very large city, a very large perimeter, and there's simply not enough forces. And, as you have been reporting, they have been stalled now for quite some time.

Our chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, joins me now live from Kyiv itself.

Clarissa, talk about what you have been seeing in the capital today, some of those images of residential buildings just being hit by I don't know what was tanks or artillery.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, we basically woke up to the news that an apartment building had been shelled in a suburb called Obolon.

It's just about five stops on the metro, or the subway, from where we are in Central Kyiv. And if you look at the images, the video from the aftermath of that, it's, frankly, a miracle that more people weren't killed.

[14:05:08]

One person did die. Several people were injured, but clearly a massive amount of damage. One can only assume that there wasn't a greater number of casualties because so many people have already fled this city. Now, we have been hearing just a steady stream of artillery, of Ukrainian air defense missiles, one of which intercepted a Russian missile, and then the shrapnel from that interception fell down, injured at least several people, killed one person, and took out a Kyiv city bus.

Again, extraordinary that more people weren't killed in that. But what we're hearing with this back-and-forth and this constant fighting, and what you just alluded to, is that Ukrainian forces are really giving the Russians a run for their money at this stage. People had originally predicted that the fall of Kyiv might happen in two to three days.

And here we are two to three weeks later. And the Russians are really struggling to completely encircle the city. They had started to make a push on a new front on the east, a suburb of Brovary. That is still hotly contested, Anderson.

And the fear is that the longer the Russians are sort of frustrated in their advance, and the more Ukrainian forces fight back and even launch sort of offensives against them, the greater the probability is that we will see more indiscriminate targeting of civilian infrastructure, more sort of random or indiscriminate bombardment and things of that nature, Anderson.

COOPER: I talked to a director for Doctors Without Borders yesterday who's been operating in this country now for quite some time.

And their focus is -- they're really raising alarms about what is going on in Mariupol in the south. It has been heavily bombarded. I know local officials say as many 2,500 people have so far been killed.

Some civilians were able to make it through a green or a humanitarian quarter today.

WARD: Yes, that's right.

So this was a sort of semi-official humanitarian corridor. It started about 1:00 in the afternoon here on Ukrainian time. And, basically, officials in Mariupol told people, this wasn't really official. They weren't using those yellow buses that we have all come to identify with these evacuation efforts.

They were telling people, if you have a private car, and you are willing to take on that risk yourself, you can join this semi-official convoy going out of Mariupol through another nearby town called Berdyansk, and ultimately ending up in a place called Zaporizhzhia.

Now, we understand from authorities there that roughly 160 cars were able to evacuate, which is obviously very positive news. But still, in the grand scheme of things, Anderson, when you're talking about potentially 100,000 or 200,000 people having been pinned down in that city, there is much, much more that needs to happen on that front in order to facilitate the safe passage of people and also to get aid in.

I mean, you have seen those images now that you just ran at the top of the show of just massive shelling, often of civilian targets. And, of course, the news that I think hit so many people like a punch in the gut today, that pregnant woman who had been seen on the stretcher after the bombing of that hospital, and now we know, of course, from the surgeon who treated her, who tried to save her and her baby by giving her a C-section, and was not able to, and that both of them have now died.

So emblematic of the fact that civilians are paying a very, very heavy price for this Russian invasion, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, and some being buried in mass graves, because there's no safe way to bury them individually.

Let's talk about the negotiations that have been going on. A Ukrainian negotiator tweeted that the fourth round of talks between Russia and Ukraine, they were paused in part for what they called a clarification of individual definitions. What do you -- how do you read that?

WARD: So, this is interesting.

I think that, basically, it's -- when you're dealing with this kind of granular level of detail in terms of trying to come up with some agreement, semantics take on huge importance. So, what constitutes a cease-fire? What constitutes a humanitarian corridor? What sort of people can be allowed into these areas in order to extract civilians?

These are the kinds of very difficult conversations that both sides will be happening -- will be having as these talks happen. Now, they're not happening in person anymore, Anderson. This is the fourth round. They're on videoconference.

And they did say that they paused temporarily. But then the Russian -- the leader of the Russian delegation said that they will continue tomorrow.

[14:10:01]

So I would say, without anyone getting their hopes up too much, that there is a sense now that these talks or negotiations are kind of ongoing, on the side, with the Ukrainian side, obviously, pushing very hard for some kind of a cease-fire agreement, even if it's a temporary cease-fire, and remains to be seen whether they will be successful in that objective.

But at least they do continue, Anderson.

COOPER: Clarissa Ward in Kyiv, thank you so much.

Victor and Alisyn, the official from Doctors Without Borders I spoke to yesterday said that they have reports that, in Mariupol, some residents have actually dug holes in their backyards in order to bury loved ones or to bury neighbors, because there was nowhere else to go, no way to get them to an actual cemetery.

CAMEROTA: Yes, this is what it's come to. I mean, just in the space of a few weeks, this is what it's come to, what regular people have to now endure.

Anderson, thank you very much. We will check back with you.

Let's discuss all these developments. Now in Ukraine with Michael Bociurkiw. He's a former spokesman for the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe. He's also a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. And he joins us from Lviv in Western Ukraine, as he has been for many weeks now.

Michael, we're always happy to see you.

Do you feel the onslaught getting closer to Lviv now, given that attack on the military base near there?

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, FORMER OSCE SPOKESMAN: Oh, yes, absolutely.

I mean, this was, after all, in Lviv Oblast, not that far from here. In fact, I spoke to people who live on the outer edges of Lviv and they felt the shockwaves from that missile -- from those missiles, as well as, by the way, Alisyn, people on the Polish side of the border. It was that close to the Polish border.

So -- and you -- this was this was clearly a provocation from the Russian side.

Alisyn, if I could pick up quickly on something Clarissa said about the granularity of these meetings, in the past eight years, since the Russians invaded Eastern Ukraine, there was something called the Trilateral Contact Group, and that included representatives of Russia and the Russian-backed rebels.

And that had continued over eight years, things like cease-fires, humanitarian, access, things like that. So you can actually achieve little -- a little progress day after day through these meetings. And it's tougher to see in the broader picture, but the point here being it's very, very important that those talks are continuing.

BLACKWELL: So let's stay on the talks.

What we heard from Clarissa's reporting is that there's a technical pause. Negotiations continue.

BOCIURKIW: Yes.

BLACKWELL: When talks were going nowhere, the outlook was bleak, the Ukrainians said so. They were clear about that in previous rounds. So is there a reason for optimism, a cause for optimism now that they're saying, we're on a pause, we will get back to it tomorrow?

BOCIURKIW: Yes, sometimes, it could be even actually a technical reason, the video link doesn't work, things like that.

But I think that the fact that both sides are showing up -- and the Ukrainian negotiators said last week that the Russians seemed to be very enthusiastic to take -- to walk away from these talks with something, whether that be humanitarian corridors, that sort of thing.

As much as they're committing war crimes or violating international humanitarian law by shelling heavily populated centers, hospitals, churches, mosques, you name it, there is, I guess, a part of the Russian government that says to themselves, we have to have these talks continuing.

But it's very sad to see that, even though these negotiated corridors happen, the Russians go ahead and have shelled them as well. It makes people taking part in these humanitarian evacuations very, very nervous, to say the least.

CAMEROTA: Michael, I know that you think that, thus far, the United Nations has basically handled Russia with kid gloves.

What are you calling on the United Nations to do at this point?

BOCIURKIW: Well, today, I was a bit heartened, actually, because David Beasley, the head of the World Food Program, is actually here in Ukraine. He's the first head of a U.N. agency to come here since the war began.

But on the other hand, it's not surprising. He shows up everywhere in the most dangerous places, because their services are so vital. But I would like to see the United Nations call out the aggressor, Russia, but also call this situation a war, not an escalating conflict, call it an invasion, because I think, politically, it's very important for the U.N. to keep its authority, its legitimacy.

But also, as someone who has worked within the U.N. system, I'm hearing from a lot of current and former colleagues who are very disheartened that this type of kid glove language is being used.

And, by the way, just quickly, yesterday, I believe it was, a joint statement was put out by three U.N. agencies. And at the last moment, I'm told they took out the word Russia when they said a stop to the aggression needs to happen.

[14:15:02]

So, why this is happening, I don't know. But it's definitely not the right tone that one should adopt, given what we're seeing on the ground. And given that these agencies are supposed to be the voice of vulnerable women and children especially.

BLACKWELL: Yes, the classification matters here.

Michael Bociurkiw with us from Lviv, thank you.

CAMEROTA: So, top U.S. and Chinese officials hold a high-stakes meeting after new reports that the Kremlin has asked Beijing for military assistance in Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Plus, a U.S. senior defense official tells CNN that the airspace over Ukraine remains contested. What that means -- next.

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CAMEROTA: A senior U.S. defensive detailing some of Russia's military struggles in Ukraine.

[14:20:03]

He says -- quote -- "Almost all of the Russian advances in Ukraine remain stalled" and added that airspace is still contested and that Russia has not achieved air superiority over all of Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: The official also pointed out that Ukraine's forces are not only targeting Putin's weapons and combat assets, but that Ukraine has effectively struck against Russia's logistics, and that Ukrainians are trying to impede and prevent Russians' ability to sustain themselves.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN military analyst retired Army General Wesley Clark. He is a former NATO supreme allied commander. Also with us, Shawn Turner, CNN national security analyst and former director of communications for the director of national intelligence.

Welcome to you both.

General, let me start with you, and what you see as the current state of play for Russia, considering the context of all -- almost all of Russian advances in Ukraine remain stalled, according to that official.

WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, I think Russia, strategically and operationally, is in trouble in this in this special operation, as they call it.

They haven't made the speed of movement. They haven't achieved their objectives. They don't have the sustainability to be able to keep pushing without these operational pauses. They're looking for something, maybe Chinese support, maybe the use of a chemical weapon, or maybe some kind of diplomatic cover that gives them an opportunity to reorganize and do something later.

So they're in trouble. Tactically, this battle will be decided and operationally by the amount of munitions, Stingers, Javelins, and other things that we can help the Ukrainians acquire. They need support, and they need it very badly. The battle for Ukraine is hanging in the balance really. If we can get

enough in there, they will push the Russians out. It will be a tremendous win for the West. And it'll be a real failure for Putin. If we can't get it in there, this slow grind could continue and you will see more Mariupols.

CAMEROTA: Shawn, what about that request for military assistance and economic assistance from China? So, the Kremlin is asking China for help. Is that in China's best interests? Are they going to do that?

SHAWN TURNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's a good point.

I think, at the outset, we all believed that Russia would have a much easier time overwhelming the Ukrainian forces. And the Ukrainians sent a clear message that they're going to stand and fight and they have done so bravely. And so I think that's what's happening here is the combination of these crippling sanctions and the Ukrainians' resilience in standing up against the Russians has put Putin in a situation where he is desperate.

He's running out of resources. He's isolated. He's up against the wall. And so I'm not terribly surprised that he's reaching out to China. But, to your question, I don't think it's in China's interests to go beyond what they have already been doing. And what they have been doing so far is simply amplifying Russia's misinformation.

I think that they understand that that's probably as far as they can go, because if they were to help Russia diplomatically or help Russia economically or militarily, the cost that they would pay in terms of their own economy would simply be too great.

So I think that this is a conversation that will sort of happen, but it will fall away because China is not going to do anything that's not in China's best interests.

BLACKWELL: General, on the attack on this military basis just west Lviv on Sunday, a dozen miles or so from the Polish border, of course, Poland, being a NATO member, this wasn't a hospital, it wasn't a school, it wasn't a grocery store, as we have seen in some of the centers of the cities. This was a military base.

But do you see that primarily as a provocation, trying to provoke Poland and NATO?

CLARK: No, I see it as a defensive move by the Russians, knowing that they're in trouble, because this base apparently was being used to funnel them international personnel.

And so they killed a number of these people. And it's an effort really to prevent Ukraine from being reinforced from the outside, at least by additional people. So I'm sure the Ukrainians have already taken measures to correct that. It was a mistake. Somebody let loose the information on it. The Russians monitored, picked it up and they struck.

And I think it was coincidental as to its location. But on the other hand, the Russians are happy to try to intimidate NATO and keep NATO off-balance and defensive. So, in that respect, it wasn't a mistake, but that wasn't the primary purpose of the strike, in my view.

Shawn, we have heard the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, begin to talk about the worst-case scenario that everybody is reluctant to talk about, which is, of course, a nuclear confrontation. So let me just play for you what he said yesterday.

[14:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The escalation risk with a nuclear power is severe, and it is a different kind of conflict than other conflicts the American people have seen over the years.

As things stand today, the United States has not adjusted our nuclear posture. But it is something that we monitor day by day, hour by hour, because it is of paramount priority to the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Shawn, what happens? What happens if Vladimir Putin goes nuclear?

TURNER: Well, I think, if that happens, then it's something that we all need to be concerned about.

Look, there's no doubt here that Vladimir Putin's ego has been bruised. The disinformation war has not gone as he anticipated. Certainly, he is not doing as well militarily as he anticipated.

And as this grinds on, and as he continues to have failures, some of the failures that General Clark talked about, his desperation, it's going to be amplified. And so what we have to do is make sure that, both here in the United States, but also across the international community, that we lay out clear and conclusive guidelines for what it means if Vladimir Putin crosses that red line.

And to be really clear, it's not just about what the United States does. We need to come together with the international community and we need to speak in one voice. And be very clear that there will be a quick and swift reaction should Vladimir Putin move forward.

And we need to send that message right now, so that he's discouraged in every possible way. But as we said before, he's unpredictable. He's off the rails here, and so we have to be prepared for the possibility that he will use nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: General Wesley Clark, Shawn Turner, thank you both for your expertise.

BLACKWELL: Well, staff at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant have stopped repair and maintenance of safety equipment because they're so exhausted from working nonstop for weeks now.

New details about the conditions there.

CAMEROTA: And early discussions are under way about having President Biden head to Europe, as Russia's attacks in Ukraine get closer to NATO countries.

So, we have the latest behind the White House thinking next.

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