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At Least Four Killed As Russia Bombs Several Residential Buildings In Kyiv; Biden To Attend NATO Summit On Ukraine Next Thursday In Brussels; Polish, Czech, Slovenian Leaders To Meet Zelenskyy In Kyiv. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 15, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

New video into CNN of the devastation leveled by Russian troops in Kyiv today. Look at this, this is one of the four high-rise apartment buildings that were struck in the capital of Ukraine. At least four people were killed.

The disregard for civilians seem to grow each day. Ukrainian president at least says 97 children have been killed since the start of the war. A 35-hour curfew has just started in Kyiv.

CAMEROTA: So, residents are now only permitted to leave if they are headed into a bomb shelter.

President Biden just announcing that he will travel to Europe next week to meet with other world leaders for a NATO summit. The alliance fears that Russia could use chemical weapons in a false flag operation in Ukraine or choose another escalation.

And in a remarkable show of solidarity, at the risk to their own personal safety, the prime ministers of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovenia have just arrived in Kyiv to meet with President Zelenskyy.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Anderson Cooper is with us once again from Lviv in western Ukraine.

Anderson, when we see those pictures of these apartment buildings hit day after day, we really get an appreciation for how people are just trying to scatter out of the way, 3 million people left the country now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yeah, I mean, it's incredible when you see -- and those are residential apartment complexes and that's not an anomaly. We have seen this just about every day of this conflict thus far. It only seems to be getting worse particularly as Russian forces are having a hard time actually moving into the city itself, still trying to encircle the city, just now it seems apparently lobbing shells into the city at whatever targets they want.

CNN's Scott McLean is also here in Lviv with us.

Scott, let's start with this curfew in Kyiv. It's unusual for it to extend beyond nighttime. We saw this couple of weekends ago, but this is like a 35-hour curfew.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right. So, it will take effect -- well, it started to take effect in Kyiv about an hour ago. It will go all the way through tomorrow, the daytime hours as well, and then it won't lift until Thursday. You're right. It is unusual, but considering the pounding that the city is taking, it perhaps isn't that surprising. Obviously, authorities want people to be as safe as they can.

I find it a little bit difficult to believe though that there are going to be people sheltering in their apartment complexes given what we have seen in the last few days, this seemingly indiscriminate Russian shelling, hitting apartment complexes, starting fires. One particular building in western Kyiv today, 16 stories, and it look like all or most or all of them were on fire. And several hours later, that build was still very much smoldering.

As you mentioned, it seems like the Russian forces around Kyiv coming from north and also from the west are not having a whole lot of luck getting really into the city very deeply. And so, for now, they are just lobbing explosives into the city and seeing what they can hit. And as we found today, they're hitting apartment buildings and at least four people were killed, many more were injured and you could imagine there were a lot of rescue efforts in Kyiv as well today.

COOPER: We have been watching the situation in the south in Mariupol very closely, the city under siege, some 2,500 people have died there, according to local officials. You have some new information about situation that's been going on at a hospital there.

MCLEAN: Yeah. So, not only are people not able to leave the city, though we have seen some signs of improvement there, about 2,000 private vehicles were able to get out of the city. There are more behind them. So, it's possible that more people have been able to leave. It's been more difficult to get people out on buses.

But now you have this situation at the hospital. I mean, they don't have a whole lot of information, but this is a according to the Donetsk regional administrator and he, head of the Donetsk regional administration saying he got information from one of the employees in this hospital who said the upper floors of the hospital had been badly damaged previously. But doctors and nurses had been working to treat patients in the basement. They said that the Russians have sent about 400 people from the neighboring apartment complexes to the hospital because those areas have been bombed out pretty badly.

[15:05:10] And now, this local leader says that people are not being able to leave, cars have not been able to, cars have not been able to get in there for the last two days. What's unclear is why people are being held in that hospital and how. We know that obviously hospitals have not been off limits for the Russians.

The WHO says the more than two dozen of them have been hit and obviously that maternity ward which is a different hospital to the one that I'm talking about here, that maternity was hit just last Wednesday. And, obviously, we saw that the awful pictures there. So, it seems like nothing is off limits to the Russians.

COOPER: Ukraine President Zelenskyy gave that impassioned speech to the Canadian parliament today. He's obviously continuing to plead for more assistance really frankly on all fronts.

MCLEAN: Yeah, this is something you hear over and over again, not just from the president but pretty much any Ukrainian official that you meet. They will tell you, please, please, please close the sky. We can do the rest. I even heard it from the CEO of the Ukrainian Railways. The idea being that if there's a no-fly zone and if there are bombs falling out of the sky, the Ukrainians feel pretty good about taking the Russian on the ground.

What is difficult -- more difficult to defend against is these explosives being lobbed at these apartment buildings. So, here is part of what he said to the Canadian parliament. Listen.

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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translator): You need to do more to stop Russia, to protect Ukraine, and by doing that, to protect Europe from Russian threat. They are destroying everything. Justin and all of our friends of Ukraine, all friends of the truth, please understand how important it is for us to close our air space.

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MCLEAN: Now, Zelenskyy also said it doesn't clear to him that NATO membership is really open for Ukraine at this stage of the game, saying that if it were really the case, then they wouldn't have to be begging and pleading for 20 days. He also said that NATO Article 5, which is the mutual defense clause is the weakest that it's ever been.

And one of the thing I should point out as well, Anderson, is that delegation to Kyiv, the prime minister from Slovenia, Czech Republic, and Poland, we understand that they have arrived in Kyiv. They took the train for part of their journey. Not clear if it was the entire thing. They have arrived in the city.

I haven't seen a picture of them yet with President Zelenskyy, but they're there. What's not clear is when they might leave and how.

COOPER: Yeah, Scott McLean, appreciate it. Thanks so much.

I want to go to CNN's Nick Paton Walsh in the port city of Odessa. Nick, what is the situation in Odessa that you've being seeing? And obviously, you've been watching Mykolaiv closely.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yeah, Anderson. We just come back from a days in Mykolaiv and it's clear around there, there is relatively high tensions, specifically in a direction towards Kherson. Now, we were on the road between Mykolaiv and Kherson, that's currently being occupied by Russian troops. There are concerns they are building reinforcements there.

And between those two key cities along the Black Sea coast, there's been significant destruction in the villages along that road. We spoke to civilian who had been fleeing, and who showed us pictures of the damage done to schools. One said only 10 of 18 homes were left standing in one of those villages.

So, it was clear significant fighting is occurring along that road, and it was also clear too that Ukraine is moving in to position there. We heard suggestions from the regional head of Mykolaiv that they are trying to push back down that road but it's pretty clear from what we saw that Russia is also trying to move in that direction as well.

They now had control of the whole of Kherson region which will take them quite a far distance up that road. So, it's obvious at this stage that some sort of fight is likely in the outskirts around Kherson and Mykolaiv up and down that road.

That's key, because it will place pressure on Mykolaiv yet again after a number of days of shelling, of pressure from other points around the city, from bids by Russia to move in to that area

And as you know, Mykolaiv is important in terms of the influence, its control, its fight has on the defense of this third largest city in Ukraine, Odessa, Anderson.

COOPER: And what about -- what is going on in Odessa?

WALSH: Yeah, I mean, we heard quite a few sirens over the past days here as well. There's a heightened state of alert certainly. We heard from regional military official in the last hour, that in a settlement not far from Odessa. He said that 90 shells were fired at a particular area at about 2:00 this afternoon.

There have been the occasional burst of anti-gunfire that's been heard over the last days here.

[15:10:04]

It's absolutely clear that tension around the city is mounting. The question is whether or not this is now part of the Kremlin's, quote, stalled plan, if you listen to U.S. officials. Things are not going possibly with the speed they had expected and I think the question for residents here, barricading their cultural jewel of a city is whether or not this is part of Russia's overreach, its overextension of what it thinks it can do, or there's also been a well-resourced part of the Russian plan. The theory is they may find that out in the days ahead, Anderson.

COOPER: Yeah. Nick Paton Walsh in Odessa, thanks very much, Nick.

More than 3 million people have fled the war in Ukraine. There's video showing two young refugees adjusting to their new lives that has gone viral. It shows a brother and sister on their first day of school in Naples, in Italy.

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COOPER: Ten-year-old Dmitri (ph) and 8-year-old Victoria, as you see there, were welcomed with applause and cheers from more than 200 students and teachers. That is quite a welcome on your first day of school. Blue and yellow Ukrainian flags.

The video first posted on Sunday. It's been viewed more than six million times.

The school's head mistress says that the children's grandfather lives in Italy and was in Ukraine when Russia invaded. She returned to Italy bringing her grand kids and their mother back with her.

BLACKWELL: Which is fantastic.

COOPER: It is such a reaction. I mean, first day of school is rough for anybody. For somebody who's coming from war zone, you can only imagine. What a way to be greeted.

BLACKWELL: Yeah. Considering all these kids have likely seen over the last several of days to weeks, not just be tolerated in a new place but welcomed warmly. That means everything.

CAMEROTA: That was such a beacon of light in all the dark days. I'm sure they were overwhelmed by the applause. I was waiting for somebody to throw an arm and you see a tiny classmate take their hand and lead them into the classroom. It was so heartwarming.

BLACKWELL: Anderson, thank you.

CAMEROTA: So, President Biden will head to Brussels next week for a NATO summit on Ukraine as President Zelenskyy call Article 5 the weakest it's ever been. What does he mean by that? We have more on the summit ahead.

BLACKWELL: And Russia slaps its own sanctions on President Biden and other high-profile figures in the U.S. We'll tell you if they really mean anything, next.

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BLACKWELL: The U.S. and Russia are exchanging a new round of sanctions today. The Kremlin says Russia will impose penalties on top leaders here in the U.S. The list includes President Biden, the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Russia is banning them from entering the country. The White House responded to that today.

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JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President Biden is a junior. They may have sanctioned his dad. May he rest in peace.

It won't surprise any of you that none of us are planning tourist trips to Russia. None of us have bank accounts that we won't be able to access. So, we will forge ahead.

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CAMEROTA: Let's bring in Stephen Pifer. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and is the William Perry fellow at Stanford University. We also have Susan Glasser, our CNN global affairs analyst.

Great to have both of you.

Susan, it doesn't sound like the White House is taking those sanctions very seriously. But they are taking seriously, I think, the idea that Russia has reached out to China for some military or economic help and that China is entertaining the idea of helping. Why would China want to get embroiled in this and if that happens, what would the NATO or U.S. response be U.S. response be?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, you know, thank you very much. I do think that, you know, China is already embroiled to a certain extent in this. Remember that Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping met in person, which was a rarity for them in COVID times at the beginning of the Beijing Olympics, when Putin had his army of nearly 200,000 on the borders of Ukraine.

It's hard to imagine that plans for the invasion of some kind were not communicated to Xi Jinping by Vladimir Putin at the time, otherwise the Chinese would have been furious about it. In fact, they announced a new strategic partnership, a 5,000-word manifesto speaking of a shares view of the world, a new access of authoritarians, if you will.

So, China is already very much implicated it seems to me in Russia. The question is what further support. Clearly, Putin's war has not gone according to plan. And so, this creates enormous amount of certainly economic implications for the Chinese, who also are watching the prices for natural resources and energy go way up.

China is the biggest consumer of those products in the world. So, it's created a big headache, it seems to me, for the Chinese. But there's no indication that I've seen to suggest that the Chinese are willing to give up on a strategic alliance with Putin that they have just announced weeks ago.

BLACKWELL: Ambassador Pifer, Scott McLean just reported that these three leaders from Slovenia, Czech Republic and Poland have arrived in Kyiv on this train. They're there to show solidarity.

It's impossible to get into Putin's head but could this be seen as an escalation. You've got the leaders of three NATO member countries now in Kyiv with the president?

STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I don't think so. It's been made very clear and I'm sure the Kremlin understands there is strong and united support among NATO allies for Ukraine.

[15:20:10]

And this, and trip, I mean, it's in a way is radically different from the phone conversations, but President Zelenskyy has been having conversations with Western leaders, he's been talking to Congress, to the British parliament, the European parliament. He's been having these conversations.

This is just a conversation that will take place in person. And again, I think these three European that has made this decision will demonstrate support for President Zelenskyy and Ukraine and also to acknowledge Zelenskyy's bravery in staying on in Kyiv.

CAMEROTA: Susan, we just had the former prime minister of Ukraine, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, on with us. And he made an interesting argument. He basically said this already is a World War. He said two American journalists have tragically been killed by Russian forces.

There are three million refugees pouring out of Ukraine into neighboring countries. The world already is affected, basically, was his argument, by this. And so, NATO standing on the sidelines and saying, well, no NATO country, you know, has been affected by this he kind of rejected.

What are your thoughts?

GLASSER: Look, I think it's a radical destabilization of the world that Vladimir Putin has launched. There's no question about that. It's impossible -- really inconceivable to imagine any scenario where the world goes back to the status quo ante, to, you know, the way things were in January before this awful war began, number one. So, I do think it's a different world.

Number two, Vladimir Putin, if he believes that he is already ion a conflict with NATO and the United States, you know, then to a certain extent, our arguments have a kind of almost academic quality, right, like we have inflicted economic stations that are absolutely devastating on Russia, essentially forcing them to withdraw large swaths of their economy from the rest of the world.

Putin has already said that that's tantamount to an act of war. I think there's some arguments about that. NATO, the United States and others are resupplying the Ukrainian military. You know, they're right there at the border, going across the border from Ukraine and the Polish border.

So, you know, I think my great fear, in fact, is if Putin believes he's already at war with NATO then in effect, our debates about what to call it are less relevant than our question about what to do about it.

BLACKWELL: Ambassador Pifer, what's your take on what we heard from President Zelenskyy in calling NATO's Article 5 weak. An attack on one is an attack on all. He said that each of the more than 800 Russian missiles that have hit our country is an answer to the longstanding question about NATO, whether the doors of the alliance are really open for Ukraine. If they were open, if it was honest, we would not have to convince the alliance for 20 days to close the skies over Ukraine.

PIFER: Well, I can understand President Zelenskyy's desire, but the fact remains that Ukraine is not a member of NATO and that means it is not covered by Article 5, which is the provision of the NATO alliance which says an attack against one will be an attack against all.

I also understand his continued request for a NATO to establish a no fly zone. But I think NATO's probably correct in not doing so because that would have relatively marginal benefits and high risk. The marginal benefit is, when you look at the number of civilian casualties in Ukraine, which is tragic, most of those casualties are not coming from long range missiles or from the Russian aircraft. They are coming from artillery and short range unguided rockets and mortar fire. So, a no-fly zone would not address that problem.

But the risk is, if NATO is going to establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine, it has to shoot down Russian airplanes, but also strike at ground based Russian air defense assets not only in Ukraine, but also in Belarus and Russia. And if that turn, it's pretty much an all-out shooting war between NATO and Russia, which at this point, neither side wants.

On the one hand, you know, NATO has made very clear it's not prepared to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. I can understand why President Zelenskyy is unhappy with that. But I also think at this point in time, I believe the Kremlin does not want to have that war with NATO, because bear in mind, well over 50 percent of Russian ground forces are now tied up in Ukraine. The last thing that the Russians need right now is a shooting war with NATO because those forces are preoccupied.

CAMEROTA: Susan, would a chemical attack by Russian forces change that equation?

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GLASSER: Look, I think that's the great fear right now is an escalation by Vladimir Putin, you know, the sort of the cornered rat problem, you know, the war is not going according to Putin's plan. Zelenskyy is still in power. Ukraine is still, you know, holding onto its territory and defending itself very aggressively.

So, you now, what are the other possibilities for Vladimir Putin. It's hard to hear all the talk about negotiations and exit ramps. Historically, Vladimir Putin has chosen to escalate the situation like this and it's not academic to talk about his use of chemical weapons, because he's done so before. He's used, you know, a banned radioactive substance to assassinate, you know, someone on the territory of Great Britain.

He supported the Assad regime and its use of horrific chemical weapons against civilians in Syria. So, I think, you know, you look at some of the propaganda that the Russian state media are offering right now, suggest they're preparing the groundwork for some kind of atrocity (INAUDIBLE) on Ukrainians.

And what I haven't heard from the Biden administration and NATO is what happens then. What would we do in response to that? Is a military response called for and what circumstances would they be able to target specifically? You know, the Russian units that carried out the chemical weapons attack.

And, remember, public sentiment already is appalled at the horror of this war. I think it would be overwhelming political pressure on President Biden to do something in the case of a horrible escalation like that by Vladimir Putin.

BLACKWELL: Susan Glasser, Ambassador Steven Pifer, thank you.

Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy got a standing ovation from Canadian members of parliament that he is making the rounds to allied government pleading for more help in this fight against Russia.

CAMEROTA: President Zelenskyy will address U.S. Congress in the morning, U.S. Congress. We have more on that, next.

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