Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden Traveling to Brussels Next Week for NATO Summit; White House Under Pressure to Find Ways to Get Soviet-Made Weapons o Ukraine; Fauci Says U.S. Could See Rising COVID Cases as Country Reopens; Senate Passes Bill that Would Make Daylight Saving Time Permanent. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 15, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: President Biden will travel to NATO headquarters in Brussels next week. He's going to attend a summit with alliance leaders on what to do next to help Ukraine and try to stop the Russian invasion.

Tomorrow Ukraine's President Zelenskyy will address Congress and update U.S. lawmakers on the war. The White House remains opposed to several major requests that Zelenskyy will likely bring up in that address.

CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins me now. So, what are the goals of the president's upcoming trip to the region here and to Zelenskyy's speech tomorrow?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the speech and for the meeting that you're going to see President Biden going to Brussels next week, next Thursday where he's going to be meeting with these other 30 NATO leaders in this pretty extraordinary meeting, Anderson. The White House as a goal is really just to meet face-to-face with these leaders. Who he has coordinated this response with, which they have noted, does not happen by accident.

And you're going to see of course, this meeting go forward. You're going to see them talking and the president also attending this European Council meeting next week. Though the White House is not said whether or not there will be a refugee aspect to this trip. Of course, that's been a major part of this. And we saw the vice president do that while she was in Poland and Romania last week.

And so, that will be a big aspect of this trip, Anderson. The White House hasn't said whether or not it will include a meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. They haven't really detail that. They said that they're still finalizing the details of that aspect of the trip.

But it will come after -- you also want to see this very emotional response, his emotional speech from President Zelenskyy to the U.S. Congress tomorrow. Where we do know, he is expected to not just talk about what the United States has done so far in response to this Russian invasion of Ukraine. But also talk about what he believes the west needs to do overall. Much like he did with Canada earlier today.

And Anderson, we will hear from President Biden after that on these requests. We know at least two of them, two of the biggest asks from President Zelenskyy are still a firm no from the White House. That's for a no-fly zone over the Ukraine which President Biden has said he believes could get the United States pulled into World War III and it's for more fighter jets to Ukraine which last week the Pentagon said clearly, at this time they do not support the transfer of additional aircraft.

And Jen Psaki told me just a few hours ago that is a position that still stands. And so, what tomorrow you will see is President Biden talk about what they've done so far, what other assistance they plan to add. But it will be interesting to see how he reconciles the two biggest requests that Zelenskyy is expected make with of course, what they do plan to do, given they're not going to fulfill those requests tomorrow when we do hear from President Biden after President Zelenskyy speaks about 9:00 a.m. -- Anderson.

COOPER: Kaitlan Collins Appreciate it. Thanks very much from the White House. Obviously, Alisyn and Victor very important for President Biden, the White House really wanted to make sure that NATO continues to speak with one voice on the conflict here.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Absolutely. And we'll see -- I mean, Nobody could be a better messenger for what the Ukrainian people feel than President Zelenskyy. But we'll see if he's persuasive with Congress tomorrow. Anderson, we'll check back with you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: The new calls for the U.S. to help Ukraine, as we heard, with the fighter jets but there are concerns that it would risk military retaliation from Russia. We'll discuss this in detail with the former U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Russian attacks on civilian targets continued in Ukraine today. In Kharkiv, some people ran for cover, others dropped to the ground as Russian jets flew over there already bombed houses. The White House is facing growing pressure from lawmakers in Ukraine to supply the country's military with the Soviet made weapons like fighter jets. But the Biden administration says that providing that type of military aid to the country would trigger a larger conflict with Russia.

[15:40:00]

Joining us now is former Secretary of Homeland Security under President Obama, Jeh Johnson. Mr. Secretary, thanks for being with us.

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Thanks for having me, Victor.

BLACKWELL: So, let's start with that growing support for these weapons. There are military and diplomatic analysts who have been on with us who said that Putin saw any military aid to the Ukrainians as an aggression toward Russia. He called the economic sanctions an act of war. So, why draw the line at the fighter jets or these defensive or offensive systems? What do you say about that?

JOHNSON: Victor, before I was secretary of homeland security, I was the general counsel of the U.S. Department of Defense. I suspect the Biden administration's thinking here -- and I'm no longer a member of the NSC, the National Security Council obviously -- is the lessons of history. Which is that very often we can find ourselves drawn into an armed conflict with another nation inch by inch. And they've drawn a very firm line because we do not want to have a direct military confrontation with Russia. Something we have never faced throughout the entire Cold War, during the Cuban missile crisis.

And the judgment, obviously, of military experts in that administration at the Pentagon is that to supply fighter jets using as was proposed our bases in Germany to fly these jets directly into Ukraine would risk bringing us into a direct military conflict. As would a no-fly zone, by the way. A no-fly zone is not simply a matter of deploying some cops to a street corner. You effectively declared that you are willing to go into an air war with another nation, if you do that.

BLACKWELL: Is there some act that could you think justify military action by the U.S. in Ukraine? I ask that because we heard from the president of Poland over the weekend on BBC said that if Putin uses any weapons of mass destruction, then this will be a game changer in the whole thing. Are economic sanctions or sanctions against a bank or oligarch, not to belittle those, but enough to respond if there's a chemical attack in Ukraine?

JOHNSON: Sanctions will, in my judgment, have an effect over time. Sanctions will not have an effect in a matter of two to three weeks. They do take time. They took time in Iran. They will take time in Russia. Here's how I'd answer your question. Of course, if a NATO country is attacked, consistent with our treaty obligations to NATO, we would respond.

The other thing I'll say is that as the images of the slaughter of civilians, the images of the bombings of maternity hospitals, a woman dying, a pregnant woman dying as a result of Russian attacks, it's these images we see, journalists being killed, children being killed, we are coming closer and closer to reaching the point where him simply we have to do more. It's our impulse as Americans to defend freedom around the world, to respond to atrocities like this. To respond to crisis like this. And I see us getting closer and closer when President Zelenskyy speaks to our Congress tomorrow and pleads for additional assistance, I'm sure that the political pressure on the Biden administration is going to become more intense to do something more.

BLACKWELL: When you say do more and we're getting closer to that point, why isn't -- this is not advocacy, is just an inquiry -- why isn't this the point when we see pregnant women who are killed after a bombing of a maternity ward and I believe the people in hospitals that are --

JOHNSON: We're getting close.

BLACKWELL: -- under custody. Go ahead.

JOHNSON: Sorry. We're closer than we were two weeks ago. And very often -- the example of World War II is a good one. It took the United States several years before we would join in the conflict in Europe. Inch by inch almost we had to be brought there. FDR had to mobilize public opinion in order to bring us into that war. Of course, Japan attacked us before we could go to war in Europe which brought us there very quickly.

And I'm not suggesting that there's some grand plan by President Biden to do the same thing. But very often, mobilizing public opinion, mobilizing support in Congress, mobilizing support even in your own cabinet is a step-by-step process.

[15:45:04]

BLACKWELL: So, am I to hear that you believe that although we are now hearing from this administration, there will be no U.S. troops there, that any of these offensive systems would be the beginning of World War III that there will come a point if this war continues on this trajectory that there will be some NATO military involvement, there will be some U.S. involvement in Ukraine?

JOHNSON: Victor, I cannot predict the future. I do believe that it's going to get worse before it gets better. And as it gets worse, we're going to be drawn closer and closer to that line and the decisions to hold the line are going to get harder and harder, without a doubt.

BLACKWELL: All right, former Homeland Security Jeh Johnson, thank you.

CAMEROTA: And now there's a new concern in Ukraine. Doctors worry that war will lead to a surge in infectious diseases from measles to COVID. That's next.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Mask requirements are being dropped all across the country, and as a result, Dr. Anthony Fauci warns the U.S. could see a rise in COVID cases, but it's too soon to know for sure. There is a new subvariant of Omicron that is spreading in the U.S.

CAMEROTA: It's already causing most new COVID infections in Europe and the U.K., but even though it appears to be even more transmissible than Omicron, it's not clear if it is more severe. CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. Elizabeth, what do we know about this and what does it mean for the U.S.?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, when you look at the rates for COVID for new cases in the U.S. versus in Europe, you see a very different picture, so let's look at those pictures. When you look at the United States, what you see on this map is a lot

of green. That's lovely. This is the map we want to see. Green means the numbers are going down, yellow means holding steady. You'll see that most of the country is green or yellow.

Now let's take a look at Europe. You're seeing a lot of orange. Orange means that rates are going up. You're seeing much less green and yellow. Let me give you some examples. In the U.S., if you look at cases last week versus the previous week, the U.S. is down 24 percent. Greece, for example, is up 48 percent, Ireland up 40 percent, Austria up 37 percent. Other countries are lower than that, but you can see that there's a big difference.

And one note here, the CDC set up a wastewater surveillance system that we talked about before, and what they're seeing is higher rates of coronavirus in U.S. wastewater. Now, we don't know that that's going to translate to higher rates, but it's certainly something that's being watched, especially given what's happening in Europe.

And so, these are things that, you know, everyone is keeping an eye on. And just, you know, a reminder, more than 1,000 Americans are dies every day of COVID still, so this hasn't gone away. The hope is that the U.S. will not follow Europe. Unfortunately, we know often that it does -- Alisyn, Victor.

BLACKWELL: How about this new request from Pfizer to the FDA we're just getting in? Tell us about that.

COHEN: That's right. So, CNN has learned that Pfizer is planning next week to apply for emergency use authorization for fourth shots for people over the age of 65. We knew they were headed in the direction of fourth shots. It's interesting that they've chosen just over the age of 65 because there has been sort of a debate over whether it was useful for under 65. So, what we're hearing it that it would be just over 65. There certainly is Israeli data showing that that helps keep people out of the hospital and that it helps saves lives. It will be interesting to see whether the FDA puts this in front of their advisers, which is an external group, or if they just review it on their own -- Victor, Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

CAMEROTA: So right now, three key European leaders are in the capital city in Ukraine to meet with President Zelenskyy and send Russia a defiant message.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: A new stamp will honor the Ukrainian border guards who told that Russian worship to go eff yourself. That defiant audio from Snake Island was heard around the world in the first days of Putin's invasion.

BLACKWELL: Ukraine's Postal Service held a contest and this image of the Ukrainian fighter giving the middle finger to the ship won the most votes. The artist lived in Crimea and left there in 2014 after the first Russian invasion. He now lives in Lviv.

CAMEROTA: There was something so satisfying in those days about that message, and, of course, it rang out around the world, and to hear how brave they were. So already they're being honored.

BLACKWELL: I'm sure a lot of people outside of Ukraine would slap that on a light bill if they could get their hands on that stamp.

CAMEROTA: OK, now to this. The Senate just passed a bill unanimously. How off do you hear those words? This would make daylight savings time permanent across the United States. In other words, we would never again have to fall back and spring forward, we'd never have to lose another hour as we just did this past weekend.

BLACKWELL: Was that sign necessary though? If it passes the House and is signed by the president, it would make daylight savings time permanent in November next year. The bills were Republican sponsor Marco Rubio said on the Senate floor today, if we can get this passed, we don't have to keep doing this stupidity anymore.

CAMEROTA: Are you a fan of this idea?

[16:00:00]

BLACKWELL: I guess. I mean, I think there are so many other things to get done, but if we want to keep the clock the same, sure.

CAMEROTA: It's the only thing they can unanimously agree on is daylight saving time, I say bring that on.

BLACKWELL: Joy in the streets.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper started right now.