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Interview With Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder; Interview With Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor; President Biden Announces More Military Aid to Ukraine. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 16, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:45]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Ukraine's president made a direct plea to the American people today asking for help in this historic speech to Congress. Volodymyr Zelenskyy thanked the U.S. for its support and urged the West to set up a no-fly zone over his country.

He dedicated his final words to President Biden, stopping the use of a translator, and he made this case in English.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: President Biden. You are the leader of the nation, of your great nation. I wish you to be the leader of the world.

Being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, President Zelenskyy also presented this video, a compilation of really heartbreaking footage from Ukraine.

We have to warn you that these images are graphic, they are disturbing. It shows the destruction, the death, the bloodshed of the Ukrainian people since the Russian invasion started 20 days ago. And a lot of the victims that were in this video, you see here, children, babies. CAMEROTA: And when the clip ended, with this call to close the sky over Ukraine.

So, last hour, President Biden spoke. He did not directly address the no-fly request. But he did announce another $800 million in security aid to Ukraine, including 9,000 anti-armor systems.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's about freedom. It's about the right of people to determine their own future. It's about making sure Ukraine never -- will never be a victory for Putin, no matter what advances he makes on the battlefield.

The American people are answering President Zelenskyy's call for more help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: President Zelenskyy told Congress that Ukraine is going through its version of 9/11 every day.

This video just into our NEWSROOM shows the bombing of a theater in Mariupol, where hundreds of people have been taking shelter. This video is also graphic, and it shows a bombing of a breadline north of Kyiv. At least 10 people were killed, according to a local official there.

CNN's Anderson Cooper joins us once again live from Lviv in Western Ukraine.

Anderson, President Zelenskyy, I mean, this video, this presentation was tailored to Americans, this address to Congress. Here are a few examples.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKYY (through translator): We need you right now. Remember Pearl Harbor, terrible morning of December 7, 1941, when your sky was black from the planes attacking you.

Remember September the 11th, when innocent people were attacked, attacked from air. Russia has turned the Ukrainian sky into a source of death.

I have a dream. These words are known to each of you today. I can say I have a need. I need to protect our sky.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Anderson it's hard to imagine a more effective messenger than President Zelenskyy in terms of what this war means to Ukraine and, as he says, to the free world.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes. One of the problems, of course, when he talks about protecting the skies and closing the skies is that, more so than even aircraft, rockets, ballistic missiles, rockets, artillery, even tank fire, that is what is hitting a lot of these residential buildings. And it is very difficult with this long-range artillery for Ukrainian forces to combat that.

Some of the weaponry that the U.S. has now included in this $800 million package may be aimed at trying to knock down ballistic missiles, some Soviet system, Soviet era systems that some of the European partners may have in stock.

That's one -- those are some of the systems that the U.S. may be trying to -- or is trying to get to Ukrainian forces, along with, as you said, the anti-armor and the anti-air systems that we have already know about, the Javelins, the Stingers.

[14:05:01]

I want to be bring in CNN's Nick Paton Walsh in Odessa, the port city in southern Ukraine.

Nick, you have been focusing on Mariupol, of course, the siege there. More than 2,500 people, according to local officials, as of several days ago have already died there. We have seen mass graves. Talk about this latest bombing, possibly in a place where a lot of civilians were taking refuge.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, preliminary information at this point, Anderson, but what we are hearing is utterly awful.

There is a drama theater in the center of Mariupol that appears, according to local officials, to have been hit by an airstrike. Now, the issue here is that the entrance to that has been damaged, and it is impossible, it seems, to gain access through the rubble.

And what is thought to have been inside were hundreds of civilians sheltering. Now, it could be as many as 1,000, according to one official. Still unclear at this stage, but obviously people's worst fears potentially being realizing, that actually where people have congregated together to escape the indiscriminate nature of Russia's airstrikes, its bombardment may actually itself have been hit.

Officials quickly countering what we're so used to hearing now, Russian nonsensical misinformation. Some Russian channels have suggested that perhaps they were far right militants there, local officials saying that is nonsense. This has always been where civilians have been sheltering away from the bombardment.

But yet again another chilling potential example of Russia, at the most generous characterization, showing absolutely no regard for civilian life here at all, if 'not, frankly, as we begin to see more and more evidence for targeting places where civilians indeed are.

And, as you mentioned too, Anderson, this is not something necessarily that would be completely stopped by a no-fly zone because of the use of long-range missiles, rocket systems in so many of these strikes, this one an airstrike certainly, initial information, but what we are potentially talking about learning more of is one of the worst losses of civilian life, according to some of these initial statements we're hearing from officials, Anderson.

COOPER: I want to talk a little bit about Kherson. You were there at the start of the war.

At least three Russian military helicopters were blown up during a Ukrainian military strike. Do we know more about that?

WALSH: Yes, we know there's a lot of damage, certainly, according to the videos both from the runway, from satellite images that confirm that, a lot of Russian equipment, vehicles, possibly three, maybe more helicopters on that tarmac destroyed.

And it is interesting to think about how this feeds into the broader picture of the battle for Kherson and Mykolaiv too. That airport is on the sort of northwestern edges of Kherson itself on the road up towards Mykolaiv. That road is the subject of intense bombardment back and forth between Ukrainian and Russian militaries.

When we were there yesterday, there were certainly many civilians fleeing a lot of the damage. Particularly one village called Luch had been very heavily hit, nearly half of the homes there destroyed, no utilities at all, significant damage locals showed me on their phone.

And so that, it seems, Ukrainian counterstrike against the airport there, against Russia's built up environment may well have slowed their advance and maybe factored into whatever they have planned, but certainly a sign that road is exceptionally fluid.

The ultimate goal is control over Mykolaiv. And the ultimate goal once that is achieved is to free up Russian forces, it seems, so they can focus more on this, the third largest city, Odessa -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Nick, just briefly, I mean, you are on the ground. You have seen how these weapons work.

This $800 billion package now, some 800 anti-air systems, 9,000 anti- armor weapons, how impactful do you think that could be?

WALSH: I'd say quite a lot. I mean, we have got more detail now, 800 Stingers. That will certainly be of great use taking down helicopters and lower flying jets here.

The anti-tank equipment, 1,000 new Javelins, it seems, 6,000 AT4s. They're a smaller, lighter type of anti-tank munition, a lot of small arms there too, and some not particularly so far detailed contributions in terms of the drones. They are part of this too. That could be very helpful to Ukrainians here.

They certainly want more, but we are hearing quite a lot now within this package. And depending on how fast that gets through to here, that may have an impact -- Anderson. COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh from Odessa tonight, appreciate it. Please continue to stay safe.

Joining me now here in Lviv, CNN's Fred Pleitgen.

It is not just the south cities, all across Ukraine, that are still being bombarded. Witnesses say that 10 people were killed while simply waiting in line for bread.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was in Chernihiv, which is north of here, but also very close to the Belarusian border.

We showed some images at the beginning of the broadcast, and they're awful. And we have to warn our viewers that they are very graphic, because this was really the softest of targets that you could imagine. As you said, this was a breadline in Chernihiv. It's one of those cities very similar to Kharkiv, very similar to Mariupol, where a lot of people, and certainly the Russians thought they would have this city right now, because it's so close to the Belarusian border, from where they move their forces in.

[14:10:08]

But, instead, they're besieging that city. And from what we have gathered, it was indirect fire that killed those people. So it would have been mortar, artillery, possibly tank fire, possibly artillery rocket fire, that killed these people while they were waiting for bread.

There seems to have been a bit of confusion at the beginning, where were some sources that were saying these people were possibly shot. And that's where the information war comes in again. Just before we went to air here, the Russian major general in charge of their sort of P.R., Igor Konashenkov, he put out a statement saying, well, they must have been killed by the Ukrainians because there's no Russian forces inside the city.

But, no, they were killed by indirect fire as they were waiting for bread, and, obviously, the Ukrainians are saying definitely the Russians behind it.

COOPER: You know, you spent the early weeks of this war on the Russian side watching the weaponry that Russia was bringing, watching the long-range missiles, the other armaments.

I'm wondering, when you hear President Zelenskyy talking about trying to shut down the skies, it is those long-range ballistic missiles, long-range artillery which are really something that the Ukrainians are having a very hard time fighting again.

PLEITGEN: I think they're having a very hard time fighting against it. But they are also having limited success as well.

One of the things that we saw when we were down there on the ground is that when the -- when the Russians move that kind of stuff into Ukraine closer to a city, like, for instance, Kyiv, right, their rocket launchers mostly have a range of about 70 kilometers, which is like 40, 45 miles maybe.

If the Ukrainians are able to get teams out there, they could take those out on the ground. We have to also keep in mind those convoys of those kinds of gear, they move extremely slow. They break down all the time, so they are vulnerable when they get moved in here.

But you're talking about the security assistance today. I think a lot of that could really go a long way, especially if these drones are what the Ukrainians want them to be. Those have been extremely effective. The anti-tank weapons also have been extremely effective as well, especially against mechanized howitzers, which is, of course, is a tank with essentially an artillery cannon on it.

COOPER: Yes.

PLEITGEN: So, that -- with that, they can get some effectiveness.

But you're absolutely right. The indirect fire, if you look at places like Kharkiv, if you look at places like Mariupol and now Chernihiv, that's what's really killing civilians. That is -- you fire those into cities, and they just do indiscriminate damage. They're impossible to accurately target.

So they are the deadliest and worst weapons.

COOPER: There were a lot of folks who were evacuated, I think it was from Mariupol, who ended going to Zaporizhzhia.

We have now seen a humanitarian convoy in Zaporizhzhia that came under attack.

PLEITGEN: You're absolutely.

And that convoy was coming from Enerhodar, which is, of course, where the biggest nuclear power plant of this country and the biggest nuclear power plant in Europe, was taken over by Russian forces. People were being evacuated.

So the information that we have is, this is a 70-car convoy that went out of here. And it's very difficult to evacuate people from there safely, because there's a big river in between and Zaporizhzhia. So you have to go all the way around the river. The convoy was apparently traveling for hours, and then, close to Zaporizhzhia, again, got under fire from indirect fire from something like artillery or possible tank fire.

And several people were wounded. Five people were wounded, including a child. That convoy apparently has now made it to Zaporizhzhia. But you can also feel the fighting getting closer to Zaporizhzhia as well, where, as you have noted, so many people have fled to Zaporizhzhia.

COOPER: Yes.

PLEITGEN: And now it seems the Russians taking that under fire as well, not just the convoy. They have also hit the city as well today.

COOPER: Yes.

Fred Pleitgen, I appreciate the reporting. Thank you so much.

We mentioned how President Biden is committing that additional $800 million in U.S. aid, weaponry to Ukraine, including anti-tank missiles, more defense weapons. Despite an impassioned plea from President Zelenskyy, a no-fly zone over Ukraine still off the table.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House.

What is the U.S. sending and not sending? What more do we know about the details?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they definitely are not creating a no-fly zone, which Zelenskyy did appeal for today, Anderson.

But he quickly pivoted from that, because I think he has heard the repeated firm no's from the White House from the Pentagon on that. So he was talking about other aspects that he believed could help them, including those longer-range air defense systems, which President Biden did say today they are going to work on helping Ukraine obtain, though didn't say whether they have actually gotten them in the country yet.

But, of course, Anderson, this is part of this $800 million new package. This is about a billion dollars in the last week alone in this military assistance that the U.S. is sending to Ukraine. There, you can see 800 anti-aircraft systems, about 40 million rounds of small-arms ammunition, talk about these radar systems as well, as the president detailed today what he thinks is going to be the most critical as the part of this package going to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It includes 800 anti-aircraft systems to make sure the Ukrainian military can continue to stop the planes and helicopters that have been attacking their people and to defend their Ukrainian airspace.

And at the request of President Zelenskyy, we have identified and are helping Ukraine acquire additional longer-range anti-aircraft systems and the munitions for those systems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:15:00]

COLLINS: Now, those longer-range systems, Anderson, of course, is something that Ukrainian officials have been talking about that would be more helpful to them, helping them shoot down Russian planes.

Of course, it doesn't sound like they have made it to Ukraine yet, based on what the president was saying. So there are still a few questions about that. But he did also say they're going to be sending drones to Ukraine, which is something big that Ukrainian officials have been asking for.

COOPER: The president also warned that this could go on for a long time, which is obviously a prudent thing to point out.

COLLINS: Yes, he did warn, saying he wanted to be honest that this may not be over soon.

And that is what Zelenskyy has been concerned about. It was part of his impassioned plea that he gave to Congress earlier today, talking about just the assault that Ukraine is under on a daily basis. And that is why he showed that videos showcasing how different life is in Ukraine from three weeks ago just to now, just three weeks, what has changed.

And, of course, President Biden warning that this could go on for a long time. He called Putin's assault so far god-awful, noting that he has targeted hospitals, maternity wards, apartment buildings. But he was leaving the room. He did not take questions today, Anderson, I should note, when we asked whether or not he is now ready to call Putin a war criminal, something that he has stopped short of doing before, as the White House said they wanted to let the legal process play out.

But it was very clear, of course, how he's viewing this and saying that he did want to stand with Ukrainian people in this. Of course, maybe they have different versions and visions of exactly what that should look like from Ukrainian officials and U.S. officials, but the president announcing this pretty big package today.

And of course, a big question is how long it takes to actually get all that assistance into Ukraine.

COOPER: Yes, obviously getting more difficult to get assistance through, but it is still coming through.

COLLINS: Yes.

COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, appreciate that.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken says that the U.S. is looking at whether Russia is intentionally going after journalists in Ukraine. He says the deliberate targeting of civilians, journalists and others would constitute a war crime.

At least three journalists have been killed covering the war in Ukraine in the past several days, with two other severely wounded, FOX News reporter Benjamin Hall that was injured in an attack near Kyiv, as you know, that killed two of his colleagues on Monday. He has now been evacuated out of Ukraine for medical care. He's said to be alert and in good spirits. We certainly wish him and his family the best.

Victor and Alisyn, let's go back to you.

CAMEROTA: Yes, obviously we're praying for him. And just, I mean, what has come out during these days -- this horrible

day yesterday was all the camaraderie in the field. It's not in the field FOX vs. CNN.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: There's -- everybody's together in the trenches. And it has been devastating to the entire journalism world, what's happened in the past couple days.

BLACKWELL: Of course, we are sending our thoughts out to Ben and his family and everyone at FOX and, of course, at "The Times" as well.

All right, Anderson, thanks.

CAMEROTA: So there are these high-level talks between the U.S. and Russia. They just took place for the first time in weeks. What was said next.

BLACKWELL: And NATO nations say they are united in not establishing that no-fly zone over Ukraine, despite President Zelenskyy's appeals.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:15]

BLACKWELL: NATO's secretary-general just reiterated that the alliance will not establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine. He said that would turn this into a full-fledged war between NATO and Russia.

CAMEROTA: Also today, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan spoke with his Russian counterpart. This is the highest-level of contact between the U.S. and Russia in weeks.

The administration says Sullivan warned the head of the Russian Security Council about the consequences of using chemical weapons.

Joining us now is former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor and former U.S. ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here.

Ambassador Daalder:, so if there's not going to be a no-fly zone established right now, if NATO says that's off the table, that's one of the things that President Zelenskyy, as you know, is begging for. He's also today in this speech to Congress called for more economic sanctions. Is there more that the U.S. and E.U. can do? Do they have other tricks up their economic sleeve that they could -- that they're just holding on to before they deploy on Russia?

IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Yes, indeed, there are more economic sanctions that could be imposed.

Importantly, Russian imports into the European Union or the United States aren't banned. The U.S. has banned oil and energy imports. But other imports can continue to go along. In Europe, there has been no import ban. So that's one step. That would include, in Europe, gas and oil imports, of course, which would be significant, both for Russia and for the Europeans.

There are a number of banks that were exempted from the SWIFT sanctions. They could be included. So there are still some significant steps that folks can put into place in order to put pressure on Putin, quite apart from the military steps, the very important military steps that President Biden laid out in his response just a few hours ago.

BLACKWELL: Ambassador Taylor, I mean, we heard from the German chancellor that they need the energy from Russia. Europe cannot meet its energy needs without Russian exports into the rest of Europe.

Is it plausible that there would be an embargo essentially on Russian imports into the U.S.?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: So, Victor, we have seen amazing changes in people's policy, in nations' policy.

I mean, Germany is a good example, and the commitment to reduce natural gas usage in Europe by two-thirds by the end of the year, so all to say that there is a lot that can be done. It's going to be difficult. It's going to be painful. We're going to pay some, but the Europeans are going to pay a lot.

And, as Ivo says, there are more sanctions that can go that will have an effect on the overall function of the war, the prosecution of the war. And President Zelenskyy specifically asked for a ratcheting up of these sanctions week after week until they are squeezed and go to the negotiating table.

[14:25:20]

CAMEROTA: Ambassador Daalder, President Zelenskyy said something yesterday that I would think would be highly significant.

He acknowledged that Ukraine will not be joining NATO. I mean, he didn't even put a time frame on it. He didn't say in the foreseeable future. He said will not be joining NATO.

Isn't that what this war is about? I mean, him saying that, shouldn't that be an inflection point in this standoff?

DAALDER: Well, I don't think so. I think he's recognizing the reality that a nation that is at war is not a nation that is going to be part of NATO. And, in fact, the refusal to bring Ukraine into NATO since the commitment was made in 2008 underscores that.

But I think the war is -- as we are seeing, is really not about NATO. That was an excuse that Vladimir Putin used to hold in front of us. But what it really is about, Putin wants to control Ukraine, not just whether or not it were to join NATO, but what its future destiny is all about it.

He wants to control Ukraine, so it doesn't become a vibrant democracy, so it doesn't become part of the European family of nations, whether that's through the European Union or NATO, and, indeed, where democracy and prosperity flourish, because that is a threat, frankly, Alisyn, that Putin has seen...

(PHONE RINGING)

DAALDER: That's the threat that Putin has seen, and, as a result, invaded Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Tell him to call you back, Ambassador Daalder.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: That sounds important. You might take that one.

(LAUGHTER)

DAALDER: No.

BLACKWELL: All right, Ambassador Taylor, there's this criticism from -- we heard from President Zelenskyy, not only what Alisyn mentioned yesterday, saying that he wouldn't -- Ukraine's not joining NATO.

He says that it doesn't work and calls for a new union of responsible countries that have strengthened consciousness to stop conflicts immediately. I wonder what you heard from there from President Zelenskyy.

TAYLOR: So, Victor, exactly as you said and as Ambassador Daalder said, it does look like they're looking for other ways to secure themselves, other way.

The Ukrainians want another mechanism by which they can be sure that their security is assured, is guaranteed. And they have tried a couple things in the past that haven't worked. So they're looking for other mechanisms. And they have been talking about some other European models, where nations can be members of the E.U., but not members of NATO, or they could be -- their security could be guaranteed by selected powers.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

TAYLOR: So there are other mechanisms, other models, other ways to ensure security, which would also include, Victor -- I think this is important -- it's going to include a significant, robust, powerful military for Ukraine. That's going to be part of any agreement that comes out.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador Daalder, very quickly, we just heard about the highest-level talks between the U.S. and Russia since this began

So, Jake Sullivan and his Russian counterpart met -- well, they talked. It was at the behest of the U.S., we believe. How significant?

DAALDER: Well, I think it's significant to keep open a channel of communication at all times. It's never a bad idea to talk to each other, if only to remind the Russians in this space how seriously we stand behind the Ukrainians, as clearly was said by Jake Sullivan, and also to warn about consequences if there's escalation, whether it's chemical or biological weapons used, an attack on NATO territory or even nuclear weapons use.

I think it's important that the Russians hear that directly from the United States and that Jake Sullivan was able to deliver that message this morning.

CAMEROTA: Ambassadors Daalder and Taylor, thank you both very much.

So we're following some breaking news. The Federal Reserve raises interest rates for the first time since 2018. Much more on how this will impact you ahead.

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