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Officials Say the City of Chernihiv is Suffering Great Losses; Debunking the Conspiracy About U.S. Biolabs in Ukraine; Defense Secretary Austin Meets with Slovak Defense Minister. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 17, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:01]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Joining us now, someone who is seeing those losses firsthand. She is Tata Marharian. She is a member of the Ukrainian Volunteer Medical Battalion in the capital of Kyiv. Tata, it's good to have you back.

When we spoke while I was in Ukraine, you described just horrific scenes. You described seeing dead children, the victims of this war. I wonder what you've seen in the last week-and-a-half or so. Have things gotten worse?

TATA MARHARIAN, MEMBER, UKRAINIAN VOLUNTEER MEDICAL BATTALION: Yes, most definitely. It's not less heartbreaking to see adults die as well. A lot more children, if I may say so. Just a couple of days ago, we actually -- we were looking for a kid who lost her limb. Because she was shocked, we administered first aid and then got lost and we're looking for her. That was a pretty horrible experience, I would say. And then a lot of people with brain damages because as a result of aviation shelling, all the cities, and so many, many people are wounded, many people are dying.

And, yes, I'm not sure if I can say this, I'm pretty happy we're not the only one who is suffering. The Russians are suffering as well, both physically and economically. This is something that is the right thing to do. So, the war is on our territory but the Russians are feeling it as well. So, this is what keeps me going, probably, helping my country, knowing that something is being done.

HILL: There's been such a focus on the strength of the Ukrainian people that we have seen. The scene that you describe, though, and what you are witnessing on a daily basis, in terms of these physical injuries, that has an intense, emotional toll as well. You talk about the shock in that little girl you were trying to help. How do you think people are holding up? How are you holding up when you are facing this day in, day out, with no clear end in sight?

MARHARIAN: It's really devastating when the Russians kill civilians and they kill pretty much -- well, they spare nobody, journalists, medical service members and kids, the elderly people, everyone. And you have the feeling that you have nowhere to hide, probably and you have nowhere to run, especially when the drones are right above your head. And you always question whether this is the drone of our army or this is a hostile drone, and if it is, we're to hide. And so sometimes you don't have the time to think about it. You just go with what you have to do.

And then the times that I get to think about what is going on is right before sleep, and I try not to because I notice that I get demoralized day after day. I try to stay strong. I see all the messages, all the support that my friends from abroad express and I'm very, very thankful, but I really can't go -- I don't know how longer I can go with news of my friends and close ones being captured by Russians, being wounded and dying, and it is very, very devastating. And I also -- I can't even imagine the amount of money I have to spend on therapy once this all ends. I'm sorry for laughing. This is a silly, silly thought that I have.

SCIUTTO: Listen, any way to get through. I want to give you a chance here to speak to Russians, right, to people if at home, not to Putin, but to Russians who might not know what the reality is in Ukraine today, as the army invades and the air force drops bombs. What would you say to them?

MARHARIAN: This is a very good question. I try not to have hatred in my heart towards all the people in the world and especially in Russia because I do realize there are some people who are trying to be in the situation or those who are not aware, I do have very, very little tolerance towards them because it's unforgivable to not be aware of what's going on in Ukraine right now. The ignorant is one of the biggest crimes, I think, there are.

[10:35:00]

So what I would say, just Google what is going on. Look at the pictures. There's not much you can do, of course, being a Russian citizen because, well, of the regime that you have, but you can strike, you can go on demonstrations, you can express your solidarity with Ukraine. And me coming from a lost society, being a (INAUDIBLE) long time, I see that (INAUDIBLE) more tends to disqualify Russian teams. And most importantly, Russian teams tend to step down themselves to show solidarity with Ukrainian people. These are the actions that do bring the Russians closer to the reality.

And I am thankful to those who express their position, especially those who are silent. And this is basically all I have to say.

SCIUTTO: Tata, we will do our part, which is to continue to bring your story and the story of other Ukrainian people to the world. I just will say, I'm sure people are watching now, because I am in awe of the strength and the service you're showing in the midst of all of this.

MARHARIAN: Thank you. This does help a lot to know that you're not alone.

SCIUTTO: We won't. Tata Marharian, thank you, be safe.

MARHARIAN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: It's happening all over the country there now, so many people facing up to this. The costs are enormous.

Well, there is a battle of a different kind, how social media giants Facebook and YouTube are attempting to join the fight against Russian propaganda. We'll see if it is working. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

SCIUTTO: As most of the world rallies in defense of Ukraine, there is a bizarre and disturbing trend happening on the far-right in this country, a push to defend Vladimir Putin and find excuses to justify why he invaded a sovereign country.

Putin himself made multiple attempts at disinformation, including the absurd suggestion that the Ukrainian government was run by Nazis. And when each of those attempts failed miserably, the Kremlin threw its weight behind another conspiracy theory. It is one Putin, we should note, never mentioned prior to the invasion that the U.S. was somehow funding bioweapons labs in Ukraine and plotting to unleash a biological weapon, or something similar to a coronavirus on the world. But as this false narrative goes, the Russian president came in to save the day and take over those labs.

Well, here are the facts, there are U.S.-funded labs in Ukraine, that much is true, but they're not building bioweapons, in fact, the opposite. Part of the reason they were established was to secure old Soviet bioweapons. In 2020, the U.S embassy released a statement to set the record straight that the labs are now used for, quote, both peaceful research and vaccine development. The goal is actually to reduce the threat of disease outbreaks.

But that did not stop the conspiracy from spreading in communities such as QAnon and InfoWars and finding a home on cable television.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. bioweapons labs in Ukraine.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: So, we don't trust these labs that the U.S. is funding all over the world after what happened in Wuhan.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: The purpose of that lab was not to eliminate or secure aging Soviet weapons, no. That lab was designed for research on new and, quote, especially dangerous pathogens in Ukraine, the poorest country in Europe. Again, not a hotbed of biomedical research, why Ukraine? We don't know. Someone should find out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go into Ukraine and take out the biolabs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Now, compare that to the way Russia and its ally, China, speak about the labs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA ZAKHAROVA, SPOKESWOMAN, RUSSIAN MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: We are confirming the facts that were unveiled during the special military operation in Ukraine that indicate an emergency clean-up of military biological programs by the Kyiv regime.

ZHAO LIJIAN, SPOKESMAN, CHINESE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: It is reported that those bio labs store a large number of dangerous viruses. During Russia's military operation, it was found that the U.S. is using those facilities to conduct biological militarization activities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: In fact, the talking points from Tucker Carlson and Putin are so similar, he has now become a topic of conversation on Russian state television. And there are experts from what Mother Jones reported is a leaked Kremlin memo that tells state friendly media that it is, quote, essential to use as many clips from Carlson's show as possible.

Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen called it out in a Senate hearing on Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): I do find it extraordinary that at a moment that a Russian journalist is getting locked up for speaking the truth, we have a Kremlin memo urging their state-controlled T.V. to push statements from U.S. commentators.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: To be clear, the methods used to spread this kind of disinformation, they're not new. Former KGB agents say they use to plant stories in obscure publications in foreign countries and then use those same stories as sources of official Russian media.

Today, social media has made that even easier and the real concern is that Russia will use this false narrative to justify its own use of chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine.

[10:45:07]

That is a real concern today.

HILL: And understandably. Social media platforms like Facebook and YouTube, in the meantime, trying to police Putin's propaganda just yesterday, removing what's called a deep fake video which claimed to portray the Ukrainian president yielding to Russia.

Now, these deep fakes use A.I. technology to depict a real person doing or saying something they did not and they could be very convincing, and that is the concern with them.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan joining us now with more of these details. So, what was in this video and how long was it up?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, this deep fake video of Zelenskyy, which, by the way, we don't know where it came from, we're not sure who is responsible for it, essentially showed Zelenskyy telling Ukrainians to put down their arms, to yield to the Russians.

It was a pretty crudely produced video, so it was kind of clear that it was fake if you looked at it, but then, again, it does signal a warning. And as kind of Jim mentioned there, this new front of the disinformation war, in fact, even just a few weeks ago, the Ukrainian government posted on Facebook with a statement warning people, watch out for these kinds of videos.

So, just as we hear about disinformation and the real fake news, real disinformation that is being produced from Russia by elsewhere in text format, it's also now in video, it can be in audio as well.

HILL: They're trying to stay on top of it. How effective is that?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes. These platforms are struggling to find all that disinformation. We actually heard from Twitter last night that they have removed 75,000 accounts since the war began.

HILL: You also have some reporting, I know, about how hackers are going after Russia online or Russian entities? What's happening there?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, that's right. So, we spent the past few days speaking to cyber experts in Ukraine and Poland and around the world who are trying to help fight against Putin's war. And one group has set up a tool because Putin has cut off Facebook and Twitter in the country, they've set up a tool online where people, Americans, anyone can text real Russians, Russian numbers, with information, real information about the war to get that into the country. I spoke to one of the hackers who's behind this initiative. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, you should be here in Poland. You should see all these people, refugees from Ukraine, people like you and me. We knew that there are people all around the world who would like to do something. But since they can't buy a gun and fight against Russia, we decided to let them use their smart phones instead.

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'SULLIVAN: So, they're a hacktivist Poland, obviously, keeping his identity hidden there. But he is somebody who said he lived under Soviet control and he knows the importance of getting true, accurate information. That is why he's behind this effort and he, as I say, is in Poland, so he's seeing refugees flow over the border.

HILL: Interesting to see these efforts to get that information out. Donie, I appreciate it, thank you.

O'SULLIVAN: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: Up next, we're going to take you live -- speaking of Poland, we're going to take you live to the Poland/Ukraine border. Nearly 2 million have now fled to safety in that country. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

SCIUTTO: Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin speaking moments just ago in NATO ally Slovakia, this with their defense minister. Have a listen.

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, good afternoon. Minister Naj, thank you for hosting me today. I'm honored to be in Slovakia at this critical moment for European security.

And I wanted to be here in person as a sign of our unity, and of the strength of America's relationship with Slovakia, both bilaterally and as fellow NATO allies.

On this visit, I'm also grateful for the opportunity to discuss our shared security interests with Caputova and Prime Minister Heger.

Now, as NATO allies, we stand united in support of Ukraine and its right to defend its sovereign territory. We're committed to helping the brave Ukrainian people as they protect themselves and their freedom from Russia's unjust and unprovoked invasion. And we're working urgently with our partners in the Ukrainian Armed Forces to further strengthen their capabilities to defend themselves.

As we discussed yesterday in Brussels that this week's NATO summit, we take our obligations to NATO and to our allies very seriously, and our commitment to Article V is ironclad. We sent additional U.S. forces to reinforce our NATO allies and we have more on call, ready to go, if NATO activates its response forces.

[10:55:00]

Mr. Minister, we support Slovakia's current planning to host NATO forces, to enhance Europe's defense.

And I commend Slovakia for its contributions to NATO, for the humanitarian and military assistance that you provided to Ukraine and for the generosity that you've shown to the innocent refugees fleeing Putin's war of choice. Your actions speak volumes. So, the United States deeply values its bilateral cooperation with Slovakia, we stand together with Slovakia as a valued member of NATO and we will stand together with you to defend our values and our common security.

Thank you and we'll take your questions now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, now the question.

Now, I would like to pass the floor to (INAUDIBLE), Slovakia National T.V.

The question for Mr. Austin, at Ukrainian President Zelenskyy called again and again for a no-fly zone over Ukraine at the level of NATO. There were discussions about that at the NATO level. And if yes, what was the conclusion?

AUSTIN: Well, from a U.S. perspective, our president, President Biden, has been clear that we would not have U.S. forces fighting in Ukraine. Having said that, we'll do everything within our power to support Ukraine in their efforts to defend their territory.

We've also stated that enforcing a no-fly zone actually means that you're in combat, you're in a fight with Russia. And that's one of the things that we have said that our president has said we weren't going to do, get in a fight with Russia.

So, what this really means is that in order to control the skies, you have to shut down the air defenses there on the ground. And some of those air defense systems are in Russia. And so, again, there's no easy or simple way to do this. There's no such thing as a no-fly zone light. A no-fly zone means that you're in a conflict with Russia.

So, from a U.S. perspective, we're -- again, our position remains that we're not going to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to ask about the option of using S- 300 missile system to Ukraine. Will the U.S. help us in any way to provide us with some replacement? And if we decide to do that, then wouldn't it be becoming a member of the conflict? Thank you.

AUSTIN: Well, thanks for the question. That question's for me, I guess. So, yes, what has been successful for the Ukrainian forces is that they've been able to really prevent Russia from establishing air supremacy. And they've done that through effective use of air defense systems, both medium range and short range air defense systems. And so our goal has been to continue to reinforce those things that have worked for the Ukrainian forces.

So, we are talking to a number of our allies and partners to ensure that we get as much capability as we can to continue to provide help to the Ukrainian forces. And so, again, we will engage a number of allies and partners.

And in terms of what they're able to do and what would be required to for backfill, those are discussions that we'll continue to have, but I don't have any announcements to make here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Now we can go to the international media, A.P., Robert Burns.

REPORTER: Thank you. I have a question for each, if I may. Minister Naj, I would like to ask you directly about S-300s. Is your country willing to provide those to Ukraine?