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Secretary Of State Blinken Gives Update On U.S. Efforts On War In Ukraine; Blinken: "Personally I Agree" Russia Is Committing War Crimes, Putin Is A War Criminal; Sviatoslav Yurash, Ukrainian Parliament Member, Discusses Ukraine/Russia War And Increasing Attacks On Civilians. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired March 17, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: So, we're looking to see Russia take meaningful actions to de-escalate, to stop the violence that it's perpetrating on Ukraine, and to engage in good-faith talks.

We will support any effort that Ukraine makes to do that. We're certainly doing everything we can to back them.

But also to make sure that they have the strongest possible hand if there are any real negotiations and if diplomacy does advance.

Hence, the support that we're giving to Ukraine as well as the pressure that we continue to put and even increase on Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, Secretary.

There's -- this department is confirming that an American has died in Ukraine today. So I'm wondering if you can share any more with us about the circumstances, about who that person is, and if there will be specific consequences for Russia because an American died.

And then, second, earlier this week, you said on CNN that one way or another, Ukraine will be there and at some point, Putin won't. But we're watching every day, Ukrainians are getting killed, their cities are being demolished. So how can you be so confident to say something like that?

And are you suggesting that Putin should be removed as the leader of Russia?

Thank you.

BLINKEN: Kylie, first, with regard to the American citizen, I can confirm that an American citizen was killed. I don't have any more details for you than that. But I can confirm that.

Second, it is, I think, not only clear to me but clear to the world that an independent Ukraine will be there long after Vladimir Putin. And it's also clear that this could horrifically go on for some time.

But when all is said and done, an independent Ukraine will be there. And at some point, Vladimir Putin will not.

The real question is, how much death and destruction is going to occur in the meantime? And we're doing everything we can to bring this war perpetrated by Russia to the quickest possible end.

That's where the support for Ukraine comes in. That's where the pressure on Russia comes in. That's where the work, the coordination that we're doing with countries around the world comes in.

But I think the world has seen this. The world has seen the absolute determination of the Ukrainian people to hold on to their country, to hold on to their future, to hold on to their freedom.

And there's nothing that Vladimir Putin can do to subjugate that to his will.

But as I said, this could go on for some time, and we're going to continue to work to bring it to an end as quickly as we can.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Should Putin remain the leader of Russia?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Secretary, you described what you called Russia 's terror tactics. Is the State Department considering designating Russia a state sponsor of terrorism?

Second, everything that you described, the words the president has used in recent days, "war criminal, murderous dictator, pure thug," do you think there can be normal relations between the United States and Russia so long as Vladimir Putin is in power?

BLINKEN: Our focus, first and foremost, is on doing everything we can to help bring this war to a quick end, to stop the suffering of the Ukrainian people that's the result of Russia's aggression on Ukraine. That's our focus.

As we're doing that, and as I said earlier, we're also looking very carefully at what is happening, what is being done.

And in particular, looking at the question of whether war crimes are being committed. And among other things, the intentional targeting of civilians would constitute a war crime.

You heard President Biden speak to this yesterday. You heard what I said a few minutes ago.

So, we are documenting. We welcome the efforts of various groups, institutions, organizations that focus on this to bring all of the evidence together to continue to document things. And then for there to be accountability one way or the other.

In terms of other designations, based on actions that Russia's taking, we are and we will look at everything.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On the second question? BLINKEN: I'm sorry, remind me.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As long as Putin is in power, can there be normal relations between Russia and the United States?

BLINKEN: Again, our focus is on ending this war. I don't want to speculate about the future. But there's going to have to be, one way or another, accountability for this war of aggression.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So, possible negotiations between Ukraine and Russia, if Russia agrees to stop attacks and withdraw its forces from Ukraine, are there any security forms that will guarantee that Russia would not renew its aggression against Ukraine?

[14:35:00]

If it's not membership in NATO for Ukraine, then what?

And another question. President Biden said that U.S. will accept Ukrainian refugees with open arms.

And so far, there's no official visa or other program for Ukrainians who are fleeing war or who want to come to the United States or reunite with their families.

Is the Department of State working on some special expedited program for Ukrainian refugees? And if yes, when it might be launched?

BLINKEN: Thank you.

First, on the diplomacy, look, I'm not going to speculate on the substance of any negotiations, where that might go.

As I said, we fully and strongly support whatever the government of Ukraine, the democratically elected government of Ukraine does.

We welcome sentiments that we've heard expressed for trying to bring this to a diplomatic end as quickly as possible.

I think in the first instance, what Ukraine needs is de-escalation. It needs Russian forces out of Ukraine. It needs to have its basic freedom and independence returned.

But I leave it to Ukrainian partners to work on advancing the diplomacy, if that's -- if they believe that can be productive. We will look at whatever we can do to support that.

And if there are issues that wind up being negotiated that require, in some fashion, our participation, of course, we will look at that and see where we can be helpful.

We want to be able, in the first instance, to do what we're doing, which is to support the government of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, along with putting pressure on Russia. If diplomacy finally carries the day, and there are things that we can

do to support that diplomacy, and to support any outcomes that restore Ukraine's independence, we will, of course, look at that. And I'm sure do that.

With regard to refugees, a couple things. First, as I said, this is the largest refugee crisis in Europe since World War II. The numbers are staggering.

And of course, what gets lost sometimes behind these numbers are the real lives that are at stake and that are being changed, maybe not forever, but are being changed in profound ways.

I saw some of that firsthand when I was on the border between Poland and Ukraine with a number of you just a couple of weeks ago, talking to people who had made the journey across the border, looking for safety in the face of this Russian onslaught.

And in many cases, most cases, women and children, the men staying behind to fight.

And we see the impact, of course, in Ukraine. We see the impact on neighboring countries, Poland, Moldova, Romania, others that are taking in very large numbers of refugees. The generosity, I think, is extraordinary.

But the numbers are growing. The challenge is growing.

I was on a call -- a video conference this morning with our G-7 partners, and this is one of the things that we talked about, having a coordinated approach to dealing with and helping refugees coming over.

The United States is already and will remain the largest provider of humanitarian assistance to Ukraine.

Part of the package that is in the supplemental includes about $4 billion in humanitarian assistance and that will go both directly to Ukraine. It will also go to neighboring countries and others and Ukrainians outside of Ukraine to support them.

Second, we are working closely with UNHCR to see how we can support this effort.

Finally, we're looking at things that we can do ourselves, and do directly.

For example, looking at steps we may be able to take on family reunification and other things that we can do to be supportive and to really take part in this effort.

Last thing I'll say is this. And of course, there's the refugee referral process, but that takes time.

But if people apply for refugee status, and seek to come to the United States, of course, we will take referrals. But we're looking at steps that we can take in the near term. Last thing is this. I think what we're seeing, at least initially, is

that so many people coming out of Ukraine understandably want to stay close to home. They hope, we hope that they'll be able to return home as soon as possible.

They also want to stay close to home because as I said, in many cases, it's women and children who have left behind spouses, husbands, fathers, brothers. And they want to be reunited as quickly as possible so they want to stay as close as possible.

[14:40:06]

But as this -- and if this goes on, as the numbers increase, as the burden increases for European partners, we will certainly do everything we can to help.

So I suspect we'll have more to say on this in the coming days. It's something we're very focused on right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One final quick question from Andrea.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Secretary, you outlined a litany of horrific attacks on civilians. You said you agree with the president's comment that they are war crimes, as the U.N. ambassador said last week.

I know there has to be an investigation. But where will the accountability be? What should happen to Vladimir Putin? If he is found guilty, since he is the state, what should happen to this leader? Tell the world.

BLINKEN: So, Andrea, a few things. First, we're all seeing what -- and you're showing, powerfully, on television these devastating images coming out of Ukraine.

And we are seeing the destruction of so much of the country by Russian bombs and artillery. We're seeing civilian sites being devastated. We're seeing people being killed, hundreds, thousands of people, civilians.

And, yes, as I said, again, as the president said yesterday, in his opinion, war crimes are being committed. I agree with that. After all the destruction that we've seen, it's really hard to conclude otherwise.

But what we're doing is this. And I'll come to your question. We are, in the first instance, supporting the very important work that's being done, the evidentiary process to bring the evidence together, to document what's happened.

To support and to work with human rights activists, with civil society, with independent media as well as with the appropriate organizations and institutions that look into this.

So we need to go through this process of compiling the evidence, collecting the evidence, understanding the evidence. We'll share that and our allies and partners, I'm sure, will do the

same, with all of the investigations that are ongoing to support accountability, using every tool that we have available.

I'm not going to get ahead of, first of all, what the outcome will be or what the consequences will be. But I can say with conviction that there will be accountability for any war crimes that are determined to have occurred.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How can you say that after Aleppo and Grozny? He does it repeatedly. He's a repeat offender as a war criminal.

BLINKEN: You know, Andrea, when we said, before Russia's aggression, that there would be massive consequences for that aggression, including unprecedented sanctions on Russia, I know some people had their doubts. I think we've demonstrated that we have been good to our word.

When we said that there would be sustained, powerful support for Ukraine, in its efforts to defend itself, we demonstrated that we're good to our word.

So, when I tell you that there will be accountability and consequences for any war crimes that have been committed, I hope you'll take my at my word. But actions always speak louder than words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.

BLINKEN: Thank you. Thanks.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, that's Secretary of State Antony Blinken giving an update on the U.S. efforts on the war in Ukraine.

Let's bring in Anderson Cooper in Lviv. CNN's Sam Kiley joins us from Kyiv.

Anderson, starting with you, we now have heard from the secretary of state, the secretary of defense earlier today in Slovakia, after the president.

There's now, seemingly, no equivocation where there had been some on what the view is from this country on Vladimir Putin being a war criminal.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: That's right. President Biden said that, in his opinion, he was a war criminal. And Antony Blinken also reiterated that today,

When President Biden said that yesterday. It was the first time he had gone that far to use that term, though he had been asked about it previously.

It's important to note -- and both Secretary Blinken and the White House has talked about this. They have pointed out that this is their opinion. There's obviously a legal process that must be gone through, and

Secretary Blinken went into some detail on the U.S. side of that, that that investigation has already begun. They want to gather as much evidence as they can.

And he talked about handing it over to responsible parties. What he's talking about is the International Criminal Court, which the U.S. is actually not a signatory to.

But they will -- they're saying they will share information with the chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, who I interviewed yesterday, who is already on the ground in Ukraine starting up his investigation for the International Criminal Court.

[14:45:09]

And to the question that Andrea was asking about, what will the ramifications of that be if a person is found out to be a war -- you know, committed a war crime or a crime against humanity.

The idea is, for the International Criminal Court, that they -- a judge would actually issue an arrest warrant.

And then it's a question of, you know, it's unlikely the president of Russia, if, in fact, he is found, you know, found guilty by the International Criminal Court, they do not have arrest powers.

But the idea is that that arrest warrant would be out there and when that person is out of power or if things change on the ground, ultimately, somebody can be brought to justice.

And that can apply to Russian generals, anybody who is found to have committed a crime, as we've seen happen from other crimes against humanity, the genocide in Rwanda, Yugoslavia as well.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Sam, Secretary Blinken also just confirmed that an American was killed today in the town of Chernihiv. That's where I believe we saw that people in the bread line that were killed, the bread line that was hit with a Russian attack as well.

And this plays into what Secretary Blinken just said and certainly President Zelenskyy's argument, which is, in many ways, this already is a world war.

People around the world are already feeling the impact of Russia's aggression.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, and in fact, Secretary Blinken alluded to this quite strongly, the ramification of what has already happened here.

Never mind the idea that NATO countries might get sucked into a no-fly zone to a third world war, which is, of course, President Biden's perspective.

But consider Ukraine and, indeed, Russia, who's also engaged in a war, two of the biggest producers of wheat on earth.

The whole of the Arab world caught fire in 2010, 2011 because the food price -- the wheat price went through the roof. And these dictatorships couldn't afford to continue to subsidize the wheat price across the Middle East.

There will be instability across the world if the price of wheat goes up.

This is the planting season. I've driven literally the length and breadth of this country now. And there's nobody but nobody sowing the fields.

These vast fields are going almost completely unsown. That is going to drive the price of wheat through the roof. Just one example among many.

The similar issues, of course, will affect Russia because of sanctions.

Then you have the individual effects, the effects of mass movement of refugees into Europe, the individual deaths that we've seen here.

An American colleague, an American civilian, if you like, killed here over the last week in Kyiv and on the outskirts or near Kyiv in Chernihiv.

Yes, these ripples and ramifications are just beginning. This is very much the beginning of the destabilization.

Even if the piece -- some kind of lid could be put on the violence that prevails everywhere at the moment, if it could be ended now, the implications would be deeply profound and long-lasting.

And there's almost certainly going to be -- the World Food Program have been noisy about this.

There's going to be a food crisis across the planet by the summertime, by autumn, by harvest time, because it's not going to be any Ukrainian wheat. It's just as simple as that.

CAMEROTA: Sam Kiley, Anderson Cooper, thank you both very much for all this important context.

BLACKWELL: Let's bring in now former secretary of defense, Leon Panetta. He's also the former director of the CIA, both during the Obama administration.

Mr. Secretary, welcome back.

I want to start with the question of accountability for what now we heard from the president, secretary of defense, and state. They believe that what's happening in Ukraine qualifies as war crimes.

What's your degree of confidence that there will be some accountability for Vladimir Putin? LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY & FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, a

lot is going to depend on, frankly, what happens with the war in Ukraine.

I mean, I understand the focus on Putin and labeling him a war criminal for what he is doing. He clearly is conducting wanton attacks on innocent men, women, and children.

But I think the principal issue here has to be what happens on the battlefield. And whether or not Ukrainians can be supported to continue the fight.

Because the more the Ukrainians fight, the more Putin loses. And that has to be the principal focus. Because frankly, that's what will determine what ultimately happens with Ukraine.

And then, once that's decided, obviously, there's going to be a lot of effort to determine who should be held accountable once this war is over. But we've got to win the war first.

[14:50:02]

CAMEROTA: Secretary Blinken just said -- and he has said this before, we've heard this before -- that they have the strong sense -- I think were his words -- that Russia is preparing to use chemical weapon in a false flag effort that they would then blame on Ukraine.

What then, Secretary Panetta? What, how would the U.S. and NATO respond to that?

PANETTA: Well, the United States and our allies in the Ukraine have to remain very strong in the face of Putin and whatever threats he's going to try to use against all of us.

And for that reason, I think it's really important that, if Putin makes a decision to cross a line, with the use of chemical and biological warfare, that we do have to respond, and we do have to make him pay a price for crossing that line.

After all, that's really what the invasion was all about. And what the United States and our allies decided was that if Russia were to cross that line, that Russia and Putin would pay a heavy price.

They are paying a heavy price in sanctions and in war aid that we're providing to Ukraine and in reinforcement of our NATO position.

So if Putin were to cross that line with regards to the use of those kinds of weapons, it ought to be very clear that he will pay a price for that.

BLACKWELL: When you say pay a price, I want to make sure we're crystal clear here. You're not talking sanctions on oligarchs or banks? You're talking about a military strike on Russian assets?

PANETTA: I'm talking about I hope the consideration of targeting whatever units decide to use chemical weapons. We ought not to let them get away with that.

CAMEROTA: You heard us talking before, and I'm sure you just heard Antony Blinken talking about how an American -- he confirmed that an American was killed.

So President Zelenskyy keeps imploring NATO and keeps imploring the U.S. and the E.U. that this is a world war. That we're already in it. That he isn't just fighting for Ukraine, that he is fighting for freedom for everyone.

And, you know, obviously, we all know what the risks would be to getting involved directly with Russia.

But how long can the U.S. not?

PANETTA: Look, what's happening in the Ukraine, I said this before, is very dangerous, obviously in terms of what can happen and how this can escalate. There's no question about that.

But it is extremely pivotal for what happens in the 21st century. This is a war between a tyrant and a sovereign democracy. And what happens in this war will tell us a lot about the future of democracies in the 21st century.

So it is a much bigger issue than just fighting for Ukrainian sovereignty. It is really fighting for whether or not democracies are going to be able to survival against autocracies in the future.

In World War I, it was fought. And in many ways, the fight in World War I kind of defined the struggle that we got into the rest of the 21st century.

I think this fight in the Ukraine will tell us an awful lot about what the future holds in the 21st century in terms of our ability to have strong democracies.

BLACKWELL: Former defense secretary, Leon Panetta, thank you, sir.

PANETTA: Thank you.

[14:54:01]

CAMEROTA: So the Pentagon says that Russian forces want to continue to conduct a siege of Kyiv. This is based on the troop movements that they're seeing. We have new details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have some new video into CNN showing President Zelenskyy visiting civilians injured by shelling in the capital of Kyiv.

Russian attacks are increasing in and along the outskirts of the capitol and civilian casualties are mounting.

Joining us now from Kyiv is Ukrainian parliament member, Sviatoslav Yurash. Mr. Yurash, thank you so much for being here.

I can only imagine what's happening in Kyiv right now.

We have been told by a senior U.S. defense official that Russian forces are moving troop movements as well as weapons and equipment to help their advance on Kyiv.

Tell us what you're seeing around you.

SVIATOSLAV YURASH, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: The reality is that the fighting is getting fierce. Russians are getting desperate to cut Kyiv from the supply lines and to try to aim their fire power on the capital.

But again, we aren't giving them that opportunity with fighting with all we have in the outskirts.

The battles that are raging almost every day are providing with scenes you can never hope to see in your country or expect to see anywhere in general.

But just staggering what the Russians have done to our country. And every day, it's only getting worse.

[14:59:57]

CAMEROTA: Yes. We can see some of that here.

And so a senior adviser to President Zelenskyy says that the Ukrainian army is beginning to be able to effectively strike Russian forces.

Quote, "The fact is drastically -- this fact is drastically changing the disposition of the sides."