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Blinken: Personally, I agree Russian is Committing War Crimes; U.N. Security Council Holds Meeting on Humanitarian Crisis in Ukraine; U.S., NATO Ramp Up Surveillance, Patrols Near Borders with Ukraine; CDC Chief Warns that Omicron Subvariant Could Bring New Cases. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 17, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary of State Antony Blinken said a few moments ago that the State Department is currently documenting and evaluating potential war crimes in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Yesterday, President Biden said that in his opinion war crimes have been committed in Ukraine. Personally, I agree. Intentionally targeting civilians is a war crime. After all the destruction of the past three weeks, I find it difficult to conclude that the Russians are doing otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: If chain of command, is something, you have to establish? You have to see, who gave the order, who carried it out? Is being the top general, overseeing an invasion, or a defense, or being the president of a country, is that enough, in the chain of command, to have responsibility? Or do you have to show the president gave a direct order?

KARIM ASAD AHMAD KHAN, ICC CHIEF PROSECUTOR: Well, the first thing is there's no immunity for any official position. So, whether you're a foot soldier in a civilian area, in urban warfare, you don't have a license to rape, or attack children, or to terrorize. And if you're a field commander, or if you're a battlefield commander, doing aerial strikes, or targeting decisions, or you're a civilian superior, under the Rome Statute, there is responsibility.

COOPER: You've obviously seen images of a residential building, being struck, by a tank, just firing into it, or a missile hitting it. What do you have to prove, in each incident? ASAD AHMAD KHAN: What you really have to show is firstly that's a civilian area, that there was not belligerent fire. There was not, for example, there were not mortars coming from that location.

So, one needs to, you know, speak to witnesses, or look at satellite evidence, or look at intercepts that have from the area, to try to look, was it deliberately targeted, because it was civilian? Or was it a disproportionate attack? Or was it a legitimate military target? So, that's when it comes to laws of war.

COOPER: Well, if somebody is found guilty, if Vladimir Putin, anybody is found guilty, no matter what, at what level, what do you do about it?

ASAD AHMAD KHAN: Well, the first thing, we're looking at all sides. You know, we're independent. We're impartial. I'm not in the pocket of any state or regional organization.

COOPER: You're an political actor.

ASAD AHMAD KHAN: We are looking at, all sides have an obligation, all sides, to any conflict, have an obligation.

COOPER: So, you would investigate Ukraine, as well, as Russia?

[15:35:00]

ASAD AHMAD KHAN: Everybody, whether you're a regular soldier, whether you're a militia, or whether you're self-help, whether, you know, you're a contractor, every individual has a responsibility not to break the Rome Statute, the laws and customs of law.

Nobody has a license to, you know, because they are having a gun, to attack civilians. One must comport oneself, in accordance with the laws and customs of war. And that's a general application. Of course, there may be particular incidents that give rise to particular focus of investigations. And we'll look into that.

COOPER: Judges can issue an arrest warrant, for a president of a country. You may not be able to arrest that person. But having an arrest warrant, hanging over you, as the leader of a country, it has ramifications in and of itself. It has ripple effects.

ASAD AHMAD KHAN: Look, we're all part of this global village, aren't we? We're all linked. Whether it's economic, political, diplomatic, education, travel, everything is intertwined. And that's why it's not a small thing.

This Court has the ability. We're not dealing with state responsibility. We're dealing with individual criminal responsibility, the personal responsibility and accountability of one's own actions. I think we need to work together. And we need to not lose hope, even in these desperately uncertain times.

I think there's this realization that we need the law more now than ever. And it requires sanity, to come back into the room. And sanity has, you know, left the building. It's -- a lot of this does not make strategic sense. It doesn't make military sense. It doesn't make economic sense. It's -- time will tell. But folly upon folly, in a way that the ordinary people pay the prices they do very often.

COOPER: It does feel medieval, to use your term.

ASAD AHMAD KHAN: It is. It is medieval. It is. I mean, it's obscene. As I said, we're doing space tourism, Anderson. We're doing space tourism. We're going to Mars, rovers to Mars.

And yet, on this world, we're shaking, you know, hospitals and schools, and people are feeling absolutely insecure, on every single level. And it's not just the people of Ukraine. People of Europe, and the whole world is holding its breath about what's next, hide in public.

All of this concern is concentrating. And there's always a consequence to this. And that's why I'm saying in the seeds of this despair, I think there will be this increased solidarity, I hope, to realize that hold on to the law. Don't sacrifice it, when you've got the upper hand. Because if we do, if we just use it as a commodity that we can trade, the future is not good for us.

And complacency is one of the great dangers of history. You know, as Virgil said, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. And we all need to be, you know, the gatekeepers, and the sentries, on duty. We can't leave it to others. It's too important.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (on camera): In order to bring people to justice, Victor and Alisyn, he's going to be relying on the cooperation not only of Ukraine but also a number of countries who may be able to provide intelligence information, satellite intercepts, phone conversations. Obviously, cell phone videos, that even people are taking in the field, interviews with soldiers and the like and civilians. That's all going to be critical bringing political action, bring charges against individuals.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Yes, it was fascinating to hear the process, how much more complicated it is than we thought just watching the atrocities from here. Anderson, thank you very much. We want to go now to the U.N. The U.S. ambassador is speaking right now about this.

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: ... integrity of Ukraine Russia's brutal tactics have killed civilians, medics and some of the journalists who have been showing us all the truth of this war. Russia has attacked so much of what we hold sacred and everything, everything the United Nations stands for. Russia's actions must be condemned in no uncertain terms.

As President Biden said, Ukraine will never be a victory for Putin. No matter what advances he makes, no matter whom he kills or what cities he destroys, Ukraine will never be a victory for him. The United States stands with Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, and we will to everything, everything in our power to end this tragic unnecessary war. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you for your clarity and the very valuable information you provide every time you come to brief the council ...

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: You were listening to Linda Thomas- Greenfield, the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations.

[15:40:00]

Let's bring in now Ian Brzezinski, a former deputy secretary of defense for Europe and NATO Policy, also a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. Thank you so much for being with me. So, we just heard there from the ambassador. So, the question is what now. We heard from the Secretary of State what Putin is likely next to do, what the Russians will likely do next, this false flag potentially of chemical weapons. What should the U.S. be doing now that you think it is not doing?

IAN BRZEZINSKI, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR EUROPE AND NATO POLICY: Well, Victor, the United States, President Biden has done a remarkable job pulling together an international coalition to support Ukraine. And this has been manifested through the very severe sanctions that have been imposed and the huge amount of military equipment that's being sent to help the Ukrainians defend themselves. Anti-tank weapons, the air defense systems, and such.

But I still think that's not going to be enough. If we really want to be confident that the Ukraine state is going to survive, the international community has to become more engaged. And I would suggest by addressing the humanitarian crisis caused that's been caused by this Russian invasion. The tremendous displacement of people. The destruction of cities, the killing of civilians.

There are 3 million migrants already that have left Ukraine. Millions more probably displaced. What the West needs to do is secure the uncontested space in Ukraine. The space that is not occupied by Russian forces and not being attacked by Russian forces. And that's largely western Ukraine. To create a no-conflict zone. That would not involve attacking Russian forces. It would be securing uncontested space to allow safe haven, to allow the Ukrainian state to remain in place and operate. That would create an important foothold, a sense of security for Ukrainian people, and it would not really risk I think dangerous escalation to the Russians. But you're not attacking Russians.

BLACKWELL: It's uncontested until the Russians determined it's not. I mean, we hadn't seen attacks near Lviv until Sunday where there was that attack on a military base that killed dozens of people. I know you're one of the proponents of this limited no-fly zone over the agreed-upon humanitarian zones. I want you to listen to what Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said about that idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LLOYD AUSTIN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There's no such thing as a no-fly zone light. A no-fly zone means that you're in a conflict with Russia. So, from a U.S. perspective, again, our position remains that we're not going to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: What's your reaction to that?

BRZEZINSKI: My reaction is that there's always risk when applying military force. But here the risk of escalation is not as great as some people are making it out to be. Because we've be moving forces in areas where the Russians aren't. The ball would be put in Putin's hands so to speak. He would have to decide whether or not he wants to take on Western forces, NATO forces, for that matter. And based on the performance of Russian forces against Ukrainians, they're not doing very well. They don't have the capability to take on another foe. A foe that's far more capable than the Ukrainians. So, I think Putin would have pause before taking on the West directly.

BLACKWELL: You know, you were very hawkish before the start of the war. I've read in the "Times" that you actually, among other things, suggested that the president should consider sending U.S. troops into Western Ukraine. Do you still stand by that as the president tries to keep the U.S. out of World War III. Do you think the U.S. would be in a better position if U.S. troops were actually in Ukraine?

BRZEZINSKI: You know, I do. And I think it was a mistake for us not in the spring of last year when Russia was beginning its buildup of forces against Ukrainian borders to establish that presence. It's much easier to hold territory than it is to go over and seize territory. And Putin is an unfortunate leader who only responds to brute force. He looks at military operations as a demonstration of resolve and commitment. And until we do that, unfortunately, I think he's going to continue to drive on.

Economic sanctions take a long time to really have an effect. We've seen that with North Korea. We saw that with Iran. Unfortunately, we're going to see that with Russia. So, adding this dimension I think is an important part of a strategy to basically put Putin back on his heels and make him reevaluate this calculus regarding Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: We just heard from secretary Blinken of this attack in Chernihiv. There is one American who was killed. Of course, we know of an American journalist who is killed in Ukraine. Should the deaths of Americans change or influence the U.S. response to Putin? If we continue to see these numbers of Americans killed increases?

BRZEZINSKI: Yes, every death is a tragedy.

[15:45:00]

And death is unfortunately a consequence of war. But I would focus our decision-making on how to shape the strategic environment, how to dominate the dynamics of this conflict when it comes down to applying U.S. and international force in Ukraine. BLACKWELL: All right, Ian Brzezinski, thank you so much for being with

us. And we just got in the U.S. citizen killed in Chernihiv Thursday has been identified -- James Whitney Hill. Born in 1954 in Minnesota. The name was provided to CNN by an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister. Hill was among several people killed when Russian artillery opened fire on civilians in that city, according to city officials. Again, James Whitney Hill. Again, our thanks to Ian Brzezinski.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We'll bring people more information when we have that.

So, the House just overwhelming passed a bill to suspend normal trade relations with Russia and Belarus. This is the latest effort by U.S. lawmakers to inflict economic pain on Russia for its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. And it will now head to the Senate where they will most likely take it up next week.

BLACKWELL: The CDC is warning the Omicron sub variant spreading in Europe could become the predominant variant in the U.S. We'll talk about what that means next.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: CDC Director Rochelle Walensky is calling attention to a subvariant of Omicron called BA.2 that appears to be highly transmissible. Walensky says cases and hospitalizations could rise as mitigation efforts relax across the country.

BLACKWELL: BA.2 accounts for nearly a quarter of all new COVID cases. CNN's Elizabeth Cohen has more. Elizabeth, just when the mask mandates are being lifted across most of the country, now we've got a new subvariant. What do we know?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, but I think that's the reality. Is when you start, you know, sort of laying back a bit on these mitigation efforts, you're going to start to see cases go up. So, let's talk about this new Omicron subvariant.

This number is pretty striking. BA.2, the new subvariant is 80 percent more transmissible than Omicron -- according to U.K. data. And we all know that Omicron is already extremely in its original form very transmissible. Now if you look at new infections last week in the U.S., 23 percent of them were the BA.2 subvariant whereas the week before only 14 percent were. That's a pretty big jump in one week. When we've seen that happen in the past and that particular variant or subvariant becomes dominant quite soon.

Let's take a look at two other places where it's an even bigger presence than in the U.S. If you look at that green line, that's Hong Kong where they have more BA.2 and we saw what happened with cases there. If you look at the red line, that's the U.K., also more BA.2, also more cases than in the United States.

I think the concern, Victor and Alisyn, is especially for the elderly and here's why. When you look at the U.S., only 60 percent of senior citizens have had a third dose. And we know how important the third dose is in this age group. Whereas, for example, just to compare in the U.K., it's 81 percent. And also, when you think about senior citizens with only two doses, many of them got that second dose like a year ago. And we know that antibodies wane over just, say, four, five, six months. If it's been a year ago, there's real concern that those seniors who have not gotten a third shot really could be quite vulnerable -- Victor, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Elizabeth, also there's this shuffle. The White House COVID Coordinator Jeff Zients is stepping down so he can be replaced by our friend, Ashish Jha. Who of course, our viewers are quite familiar with. We interview him all the time Why is this happening right now?

COHEN: You know, Alisyn, it's being framed as the pandemic has moved into a new phase. When Mr. Zients, you know, started his job it was largely really is sort of an overview way, kind of operational. He was trying to get hundreds of millions of Americans vaccinated. I know it seems like a decade ago but it was only a year ago we were doing stories about, you know, this huge undertaking. Things have changed now, that's not the situation. We're moving into a more endemic phase and it's being framed as sort of a new leadership for a new time.

CAMEROTA: OK. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

OK, now to this, it is hard to believe, but before Ukrainian President Zelenskyy was the pillar of courage that the world is watching, he was an actor and comedian who played the president on TV in a Ukrainian show called "Servant of the People."

BLACKWELL: Well now, Netflix is streaming the series. It ran for three seasons. It's a political satire featuring Zelenskyy as a high school teacher who becomes Ukraine's president after he makes a speech about corruption that goes viral.

CAMEROTA: I mean the idea that he has the skill set to be a TV star and a courageous war time president, you don't often see those skill sets overlap.

BLACKWELL: I'm listening to you, but also watching this fantastic trailer. We'll be watching this.

CAMEROTA: For sure.

[15:55:00]

BLACKWELL: All right, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Is there any line that Putin and the Russian military won't cross? "THE LEAD" starts right now.