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Russia Steps Up Attacks; President Biden Speaks to Chinese President. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 18, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Try to have a good weekend, if you can.

Don't forget, you can also listen to our podcast. Download INSIDE POLITICS wherever you get your podcast.

Pamela Brown, Anderson Cooper pick up our breaking news coverage right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Ana Cabrera. Anderson Cooper is in Lviv, Ukraine.

Today, signs that Russia plans to ramp up attacks in Western Ukraine, an area that has become a key hub for displaced civilyans and weapons shipments. This morning, the most brazen attack yet on Lviv. Four missiles hit an aircraft repair plant just a few dozen miles from NATO territory.

And Russia's foreign minister has reiterated that they will target weapon shipments entering Ukraine. The threat comes on the same day President Biden spoke to China's Xi Jinping, who is weighing whether to send Chinese military aid to Russia.

Meanwhile, Russian atrocities mount. The depths of despair you see here, that man crying over the body of his own mother after a Russian missile was downed over Kyiv. At least 60 civilyans have been reported killed in the capital since the start of the invasion, including four children.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, and the carnage we're seeing is even worse in Mariupol.

As many as 1,100 people, mostly women and children, are still missing in the rubble two days after Russia bombed a theater serving as a clearly marked shelter. No one knows the exact number of people who were actually in the shelter at the time.

President Zelenskyy gave an update a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We have managed to rescue 130 people, but there are still hundreds of Mariupol people under the rubble. Despite all the difficulties, we shall continue the rescue operations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: CNN's Scott McLean is here with me in Lviv. Ivan Watson is in Central Ukraine.

First of all, let's talk about, Scott, the significance of this strike in Lviv.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's huge.

It's the first time that a bomb has fallen within the city limits. Of course, I mean, you have been here for a couple of weeks now. The air raid sirens are a daily occurrence, sometimes multi -- multiple times a day. And people aren't running to the shelters with the same kind of urgency that they were in the early days of the war, because it's almost become like background noise.

But, today, I think it was a serious wakeup call for people. Previously, the closest strike was about 25 miles away at the -- at that military base near the Polish border. Now you have them within city limits. And remember also this is a place where you have got 200,000-plus people who've come from other parts of the -- of Ukraine, fleeing violence there.

They feel relatively safe there. If you go around the city center, life goes on as usual. But a lot of people are now rethinking their decision to stay in the city. And I met one woman in particular earlier today who'd actually come from Kyiv.

And so, in comparison, this place still feels quite tranquil. But I asked her about her future plans. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARITA, KYIV RESIDENT: I felt really nervous about my daughter. If not for her, I wouldn't come. I wouldn't go -- I wouldn't leave Kyiv.

MCLEAN: Why?

MARGARITA: Because my husband is there. Why? Because I was born there. I want to be at home. I don't want to be a refugee. That's normal, I think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: You hear that so often just over and over again from the people that you talk to you, that: This is my home. Why should I leave?

COOPER: Yes. MCLEAN: And people are sort of making those calculations, that

cost/benefit analysis of, is it really worth it to go to another country when you're still relatively safe here? You're leaving a lot behind if you choose to go.

COOPER: Yes.

I want to go to Ivan Watson.

Ivan, I understand you spoke to a major in the Ukrainian armed forces. What did he tell you?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

And just while you have been talking to Scott, we heard an air raid siren. And I might add that, this morning, the city leadership here in Vinnytsia says that their air defenses shot down three rockets over this city.

Yes, I spoke with a major from Ukraine's territorial defense forces who's been injured in combat operations recovering here, and he described how his battalion of nearly 400 people, most of them volunteers, have contributed to defending the front lines to the northwest of Kyiv, describing tactics that he called aggressive resistance, splitting his men up into 10-man units, armed mostly with Soviet era rocket-propelled grenade launchers, and going up and trying to ambush columns -- I hear the air raid siren again -- of Russian armored personnel carriers and tanks.

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And being able to stop them and destroy, in his estimate, at least 20 of these vehicles in three weeks of fighting, but at a significant cost. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Has your battalion had casualties?

SERHII TAMARIN, MAJOR IN UKRAINE TERRITORIAL DEFENSE: Yes, yes.

WATSON: People killed, people wounded?

TAMARIN: Yes. I prefer not to tell the number of people, but we have -- I already lost my friends and people who served with me.

We have people who -- wounded.

WATSON: What is the weapon that is hurting your men?

TAMARIN: The most dangerous, it's artillery.

WATSON: Does your battalion have an estimate for how many Russians they killed?

TAMARIN: For now, we destroyed almost 200 Russians and captured live closer to six or eight soldiers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Now, Anderson, this officer says that his battalion, who are not elite fighters in the Ukrainian armed forces, he does say that they have adequate weaponry, and that they have already started to receive some foreign assistance, mostly in the form of these shoulder- launched missiles NLAW, that can be tank killers.

He does say that they can always use more. And he talked specifically about wanting thermal scopes that can see in the infrared spectrum to see where the enemy is. He'd liked more drones as well.

And -- but that he's grateful that they can actually touch some of the aid that they have gotten from Ukraine's Western allies. Of course, the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, has issued a threat, saying that any of these shipments are legitimate targets for the Russian armed forces -- Anderson.

COOPER: Ivan Watson, appreciate that.

Fascinating from his perspective on the ground. Scott McLean here in Lviv, thanks so much.

Let's get back to you, Pamela in D.C.

BROWN: All right, thanks so much, Anderson.

And, today, President Putin talked up Russian troop morale and heroism. But the truth in the trenches could be far different. This is from the commander of U.S. Central Command.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We can all make our judgments about how motivated the Russian soldiers appear. And they don't appear, from where I sit, at least, to be particularly motivated or particularly -- or particularly engaged in the campaign that they're undertaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now is Rob Lee, senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute's Eurasia Program. And he's also an expert on Russian military defense and a Marine as well.

Hi, Rob. Thanks for joining us.

So, Ukraine's army has so far been able to limit Russia's advances in key cities like Kyiv and Odessa. Here we are, nearly a month since the invasion began, and they have still been able to hold them off. Why do you think that is?

ROB LEE, FOREIGN POLICY RESEARCH INSTITUTE: So, ultimately, I think Russia had a very optimistic view of how this war was going to go. Clearly, Ukraine resistance is being much greater than they expected,

both from the military and pop-up resistance from civilyans. And so a lot of the advances they made -- and they have had some success in some areas -- they have come up to some cities, and they have struggled to make inroads into the cities.

So, the fighting in Mariupol remains quite difficult and tense. Mykolaiv continues to hold out. And, around Kyiv, Ukrainian forces have done a very good job of defending the suburbs and outer areas of Kyiv, of preventing the approaches. And so, basically, it's really stymieing Russia's efforts to try and encircle these key cities and continue their advance.

BROWN: How much, though, do you think this is about the Russian troops' morale being low and just not having their act together, vs. the Ukrainians having the ability to hold them off?

LEE: So it's probably part of both.

I think there is an indication that a lot of Russian soldiers were not told ahead of time or didn't have much advance notice they were actually going to war, including junior soldiers. And there's certainly some coordination issues there and a variety of vulnerabilities we're seeing in the Russian military.

But Ukraine has been very impressive at all levels about how they're defending. They prevented Russia from achieving a kind of knockout blow in the first day. They have managed to protect their air defenses, their aviation, always looking at assets. And they have been very smart about moving in the cities, and not allowing the Ukrainian military to take too heavy of casualties.

So all that together has made it very difficult for Russia to win this war. And, ultimately, Ukrainian resistance is what makes it very difficult for Russia.

BROWN: And we have also seen a little bit of a change in the Russian tactics. If you look at Lviv, the attack there, Russian forces for just the second time in three weeks struck a target in this western city. This is located near the Polish border.

Why this strike right now?

LEE: So, I think Russia is trying to demonstrate that, even if there's a no-fly zone, or even if NATO tries to increase its defense cooperation or arm supports to Ukraine, that they can still hit targets deep into Western Ukraine, because, right now, we know that Ukraine's air defenses in West Ukraine appear to be pretty strong still, and Russia is not flying over those with the Russian air force much.

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So they have to rely on these kind of long-range cruise missile strikes, instead of airstrikes. But ,ultimately, it's still a problem for Russia, because they have a limitation on how many of these long- range cruise missile and ballistic missiles they have in service. And because they can't use airstrikes with dumb bombs, which they have far more of, the limits what they can do.

BROWN: But it also raises the risk of something happening in a NATO country, right?

LEE: Certainly.

Anything on the western border is -- it increases the risk. I think one of Russia's main goals is to keep NATO out of this conflict. Clearly, they're not happy about arms exports that NATO is providing to Ukraine. But I think they are concerned that this might increase more, whether it be peacekeeping troops, a no-fly zone, or something along those lines, that could really make Russia's efforts even more difficult in Ukraine.

And we clearly know they're already having difficulty as it is.

BROWN: They are. Let's talk about some of the difficulties they have had with the Russian troops that have been killed so far.

Now, U.S. officials estimate between 3,000 and 10,000 Russian troops have been killed. Ukraine's armed forces claim that number is now more than 14,000. They also say that Russia has lost a laundry list of weapons, tanks and top military officials.

What is the significance of these losses?

LEE: Sure.

So it's really hard to get a good, accurate estimate of what the losses are. And I don't think anyone really knows that well at this point. But the big problem is that Russia, when they invaded, they have a relatively small army. And especially with the kind of permanent readiness elite units that they're using heavily, it's really not that large.

And so, when we're talking about potentially tens of thousands of casualties and KIAs, it means that there's really heavy attrition. And it limits the ability of the Russian military to advance farther into Ukraine. So they're already limited because they have to -- they're fighting in all these different cities.

They have to maintain the supply lines. They have to occupy terrain. And then, in addition to that, these heavy casualties are really limiting Russia's ability to continue moving forward. And it really -- it brings into question whether or not they could take Kyiv at this point.

I don't know if they have enough troops, and the additional casualties would be pretty significant there as well.

BROWN: And that is probably why you're seeing Russia reach out for help elsewhere, including to China.

If Russia doesn't get assistance from China, can it still win this war?

LEE: So I think, from the beginning, it's always been -- it's been difficult because Russia had such ambitious political goals. It was always a question of, how can you translate military force into achieving those goals?

I don't think it was ever really possible. And then, in terms of the military side of it, I wouldn't say the Russian military is losing. But it's just -- it's not clear what kind of political solution they can achieve, especially if they can't take Kyiv, if they can't take Odessa.

So, ultimately, we're probably looking at a negotiated settlement at some point, but it doesn't look as though Russia is going to be in any position to really dictate terms the way they wanted to.

BROWN: And we're also seeing an increase of horrific civilyan attacks, civilyans being targeted, a war crime. What is the strategy behind that, in your view?

LEE: So I think it's kind of two things.

One is, Russia doesn't have that many precision-guided munitions, and the quality isn't as good as what the U.S. has. And so there's always a limitation if Russia fights in urban areas. They can't fight that precisely.

On the other hand, we're seeing in Kharkiv and Sumy and other cities that they initially went into them in the very beginning. They opposed. And, since then, they have really been using heavy airstrikes, mobile launch rocket system strikes, all those kind of things.

I think it's mostly coerce them, not compellence, trying to kind of compel President Zelenskyy to make concessions, instead of continuing to see his cities get destroyed. But, ultimately, it doesn't seem to be very effective. And it isn't really seen as contributing to the ultimate success for Russia in this conflict.

BROWN: All right, Rob Lee, thank you for your time.

LEE: Thank you.

BROWN: Is Arnold Schwarzenegger strong enough to break through Putin's wall of propaganda? Well, he is making direct plea to the Russian people to resist misinformation. And we're going to discuss this with a Russian blogger who fled the country.

Plus, what can the U.S. do to pull China away from Russia? The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee also joins us this hour.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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BROWN: Turning now to the information war inside Russia, the U.S. State Department, hackers, even Arnold Schwarzenegger are trying to reach Russians with the truth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R-CA): This is not the war to defend Russia that your grandfathers or your great-grandfathers fought. This is an illegal war.

Your lives, your limbs, your futures are being sacrificed for a senseless war condemned the entire world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But are messages like that making an impact? Are they getting through to the Russians who need to hear it the most?

My next guest fled Russia after the war began, Ilya Krasilshchik. He is a Russian tech executive who is now living in the country of Georgia.

Hi, Ilya.

First off, if you would, walk us through the process of making the decision to flee Russia and what it was like to get out of the country.

ILYA KRASILSHCHIK, RUSSIAN TECH EXECUTIVE: I think we made this decision quite quick.

I think, day before the war, we didn't understood that the war will start. No one believed in it. And after it happened on February 24, when -- so, it was really easy to understand the war -- world has changed and our life changed.

So I think, in a couple of days, we understood that the situation in Moscow, the atmosphere is Moscow is quite awful. And a lot of people tried to escape, tried to buy some tickets to any flights, to any airlines, any countries.

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And it was quite hard. So, a lot of people in the streets who just said goodbye to each other and said, let's meet in Yerevan or in Georgia or in or in Tbilisi or somewhere else.

You -- we just understood that we don't know how much time we will have before the border will close. We -- in Russian history, we know that almost all -- I think half of the 20th century, the border of the state was closed. So this is a real fear in Russia, that you can't escape your country.

So I think, in three days, we were already in Dubai, and then we came to Tbilisi, yes, right now with my girlfriend in Tbilisi. BROWN: He said that the atmosphere was awful in Russia. Tell us a

little bit more about that. What was it like?

KRASILSHCHIK: Yes.

I hope I will never see something like that again, when a lot of people -- so all -- actually, all of people around me understood that the crime is happening, that our army is killing the people in Ukraine.

We all have a lot of friends in Ukraine. We speak the same language with them. We -- I was in Ukraine, myself, for dozens of times. I love this country. And when you see this, and when you understand that this is your country, and when you understand that your world, your world just is falling apart, and, actually, you can't do anything with it.

So you come to the streets, you go for a protest, and there's a lot of police. They just can arrest you. And we saw this a lot of times. We saw it for a decade. And we try to protest. And every time, every time, we just -- or get beaten or just will arrested or just get another oppressive laws in our country.

So this atmosphere of lose -- atmosphere of the catastrophe, it was -- it's horrific, yes.

BROWN: Help us understand right now, because you said that a lot of people you were around understood what was going on, the horrific atrocities happening by the Russians against the Ukrainians.

But, right now, when Russians turn on their TV or log onto the Internet, what are they seeing and being told about this war?

KRASILSHCHIK: Yes, I need to say that, even on the state governments, state-controlled surveys, 30 percent of Russians are against this war.

And I don't -- I think the numbers are quite higher, because these numbers are state controlled. But 30 percent of Russia is 40 millions of people. So a lot of people in Russia are strictly against this war.

So, anyway, there is a lot of people. Most of them are 60 years old and older, maybe 55. They watch the Russian TV, or, sometimes, they read something in the state-controlled Telegram channels or state- controlled media in the Internet.

And they are quite brainwashed. And I -- on Instagram, I asked some of my subscribers to send me some conversations between their parents and -- or grandparents or something -- sometimes friends are brothers and sisters about this war.

And this is really depressing, when people write their relatives about what's happening. And the relatives said that, no, no, no, there is no war. I don't believe you. You're lying to me. And then I have a lot of screenshots of these conversations, when some girl said that mother beat -- beaten her, or some mother just abandoned her son, or some father called his daughter a traitor and said, if she get arrested, it will be the right thing. So this is quite awful. And I think this is a good study for the

future scientists to understand how the propaganda works. And, actually, all of these people have -- they can find the proper -- proper news. There is Telegram channels. There are Telegram channels. You can read the normal news in Russia still.

But, somehow, these people are brainwashed.

BROWN: So, even though they would see, for example, the Arnold Schwarzenegger video telling them the truth of what happened, how effective do you think that could be in persuading these people who are brainwashed that the Russians are killing innocent civilyans and Ukrainians and that this is not about wiping out the neo-Nazis, as Putin just reiterated today at this concert?

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KRASILSHCHIK: No, first of all, I am not sure that they will see Schwarzenegger's speech.

This is actually a fantastic speech. And I know a lot of my friends who saw this many, many times, for the one -- so, yes, it was a fantastic speech. But the Russian TV will not show this speech.

The problem is that not only about Mr. Schwarzenegger's speech. The problem is that people don't see that the Russian army really is bombing the Russian -- the Ukrainian -- worry -- the Ukrainian cities. They don't see this. They think that it's some Nazis in Ukraine maybe killed innocent civilyans in Ukraine.

And they really believe it. And they think that -- they don't understand actually how many Russian soldiers died already in Ukraine in the senseless war. They just don't understand that this is happening.

BROWN: Will you ever go back to Russia?

KRASILSHCHIK: I hope. I'm young.

(LAUGHTER)

KRASILSHCHIK: I'm not -- right now, for surely not. I think it's just dangerous.

I want to come back to Russia. This is my home. I love Russia. I love Moscow. The problem is that, in my point of view, the Russia which I knew, it doesn't exist anymore. This is kind of a different country. We need to understand what is our country right now.

So I think, actually, that Putin prepare -- was preparing for this war for eight years. We didn't understand this. We didn't understand that this all is going -- was going to war. We thought that, yes, our reality was destroying -- the institutes were destroying, free speech was destroying.

But we didn't understood that this was -- this will end this so horrible war, and that Russia before them and Russia after the war, inside the Russia and for whole world, it's quite a different country. And, right now, we just don't need only to think about how we need to come back, but what is this country, and how can we survive this catastrophe?

Because I think this is catastrophe for us as a country.

BROWN: And for the world.

Ilya, thank you so much. You say you hope to go back to Russia. And will it be safe?

(CROSSTALK)

KRASILSHCHIK: Yes.

First of all, this is a catastrophe for Ukrainian, second for...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Oh, 100 percent, 100 percent.

Ilya, thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. And best of luck with everything. I know how difficult it must be to just uproot your life and leave in such a quick fashion. So thank you.

KRASILSHCHIK: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, he is one of the millions of Ukrainians who have fled the war. CNN talked to an 11-year-old boy who made the harrowing journey alone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Were you scared, Hassan?

HASSAN AL-KHALAF, TRAVELED 620 MILES ALONE (through translator): Yes, I was very scared. I felt horrible. I really wanted to cry because I have always been with my mom and this is the first time I had to go away from her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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