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British PM Johnson Says Putin In "Total Panic," Fearing Pro- Democracy Uprising In Moscow; Former Ukrainian President Calls On Biden To Visit Kyiv Next Week; Norway PM: Four U.S. Service Members Killed In NATO Training Crash; Russia Launched Supersonic Weapons Against Ukraine Last Week; U.S. Women Heading To Ukraine To Offer Medical Help; Ukrainian President Calls For Peace Negotiations "Without Delay"; Former CNN News Assistant, Sierra Jenkins, Killed In Virginia Shooting. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired March 19, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: After the windows and doors of the building next door were shot out, the couple was hit with chards of glass.

Olga shielded the infant with her body. The child was not injured, but both parents were. They are all recovering in a Kyiv hospital. Incredible.

Your next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday.

Another tense night in Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine. And 24 days into this conflict, there's widespread destruction in the city. Yet, Ukrainian forces and armed civilians continue to put up stiff resistance even as Russian troops edge closer.

Meantime, the strategic port city of Mariupol is under almost constant bombardment. New satellite images show massive damage to the city's theater where the number of casualties is still unknown. The word "children" written in Russian is still clearly visible right outside that building.

Earlier today, Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, urged for peace negotiations with Moscow without delay. He warned that otherwise Russia's losses would be huge.

Tonight, in the U.K., Prime Minister Boris Johnson offered a scorching assessment of Vladimir Putin and his motives for attacking Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: With every day that Ukraine's heroic resistance continues, it is clear that Putin has made a catastrophic mistake.

He was frightened of Ukraine because in Ukraine they have a free press. And in Ukraine they have free elections.

And with every year that Ukraine progressed, not always easily, toward freedom and democracy and open markets, he feared the Ukrainian example, And he feared the implicit reproach to himself.

Because in Putin's Russiam you get jailed for 15 years just for calling an invasion an invasion. And if you stand against Putin in an election, you get poisoned or shot.

Precisely because Ukraine and Russia have been so historically close, that he has been terrified of the effect of that Ukrainian model on him and on Russia.

And he's been in a total panic about a so-called color revolution in Moscow itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN has reporters following the latest developments here in the states.

Arlette Saenz is at the White House, and Kylie Atwood at the State Department.

To you first, Arlette.

President Biden heads to Brussels next week for a NATO summit that's being called an extraordinary gathering in light of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Today, on CNN, the former president of Ukraine said that Biden should visit Kyiv while he's in Europe as a show of unity.

What is the White House saying about that tonight?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, sources I've spoken to say it's unlikely President Biden would make that trip to Kyiv while he is in Europe next week.

Of course, there are a host of security and logistical concerns if he were to make such a trip.

But even without a trip to Kyiv, President Biden is still putting Ukraine front and center when he attends a slate of meetings in Brussels on Thursday.

Beginning with that extraordinary NATO summit that's going to focus on defense and deterrence measures in the wake of Russia's aggression toward Ukraine.

It will give Biden an opportunity to also reaffirm the U.S. commitment to defend NATO allies.

There are several countries, of course, bordering Poland -- sorry, bordering Ukraine that are near that conflict. Additionally, these leaders could also be talking about additional

defense mechanisms that they could possibly send to Ukraine as they are fighting this war.

Additionally, Biden will attend a meeting of the European council summit, which they will be speaking about things like sanctions and humanitarian assistance.

And then also he will be joining a meeting of G-7 leaders. This is a meeting that was called by Germany.

But this comes as President Biden will now be able to meet face to face with those allies that he's been working with over the course of the past few months crafting this response to Russia and also developing ways to help Ukraine in this war.

The White House really stressing that this remains a top priority for the president to continue working with allies as they are hoping to help Ukraine, as they are looking to defend themselves further.

And also to further punish Russia, as well.

BROWN: All right. Arlette Saenz, live for us from the White House tonight.

Now to CNN's Kylie Atwood at the State Department.

Kylie, four U.S. Marines killed during NATO exercises in Norway. These exercises, we should note, were not related to what's happening in Ukraine. Nonetheless, disturbing news tonight.

[20:04:57]

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This deadly crash occurred, Pamela, during regular NATO exercises that were planned about eight months ago, according to NATO.

And these aren't exercises that are related at all to the war in Ukraine.

Of course, we have seen what NATO has done in bolstering its defense along the eastern flank countries that are closer to Russia and part of NATO. But this exercise was not part of that.

However, the Norwegian prime minister is saying there were four U.S. servicemembers who were killed in this aircraft that went down as part of these exercises.

The United States not confirming those details. But the Marine Corps saying that there were four Marines that were involved in an accident that occurred in the country.

So we are watching this closely, waiting for more details.

We are told that the others who were outside the country are the ones who are conducting this investigation. And of course, we should note that even though this doesn't have to do

with the war in Ukraine, it comes at this very critical moment when, as Arlette was saying, President Biden is planning to go next week to Europe to be alongside other NATO allies for the incredible leaders- level summit -- Pam?

BROWN: All right. Kylie Atwood, thank you so much.

As diplomats work overtime to end the violence in Ukraine, the Russian military shows no sign of easing off, especially in Kyiv.

Still, former president of Ukraine Poroshenko wants President Biden to visit there, as we were talking about earlier with Arlette.

Let's bring in CNN military analyst, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He was commanding general of Europe and Seventh Army.

All right, General, you've been in a war zone. You heard what was reported, that administration officials say, look, this is unlikely given the safety and logistical issues.

What do you think about what Poroshenko put out there, inviting Biden to go to Kyiv now?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Truthfully, Pamela, I'd consider that a non-starter from the very beginning.

Yes, I've been in war zones where presidents have visited. I was actually in Baghdad when President Bush made a surprise visit at Thanksgiving.

It takes an awful lot of security. And you have to control the area. There's no controlling the area of Kyiv right now that would allow for a presidential visit.

So I would personally be very surprised if President Biden were to visit the capital.

But at the same time, what I'd say is the president as well as all the NATO leadership is -- they're all exhibiting extreme support, even more than the American people realize, for the Ukrainian fight for their country.

So I don't think it requires a visit by the president. I don't even think it would be appropriate for him to do so in a country that's actually experiencing some of the chaos that Ukraine is right now.

So I think the fact that President Biden is going to NATO headquarters to shore up the alliance, to be a part of their -- their collaboration in terms of what to do next is probably the most important part of where a leader should be right no.

That's just my opinion.

BROWN: So let's talk about what Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told my colleague, Don Lemon, in this interview, this sit-down. He said that Russia continues to make incremental gains in the south

and has used brutal savage techniques in the way it has targeted civilians.

What do you think the strategy is in targeting these innocent civilians?

HERTLING: Well, it's very clear to me what the strategy is. The Russian military has turned away from what's called in the military parlance a battle of annihilation where they are attempting to surround Ukrainian forces and force them to surrender, to a battle of annihilation.

Both sides are involved in that -- I'm sorry, a battle of attrition. And in a battle of attrition, what you're trying to do is just attrit the enemy side.

The Ukrainians are attriting the Russia forces significantly. They are doing great damage to the Russian force.

Unfortunately, what the Russian forces are doing is attempting to attrit the civilian populations, which we all know is contrary to the laws of land warfare and could potentially be a war crime.

So the attempt by Russia is to affect the will of the government of Ukraine by continuing to attack their civilians.

The government officials, President Zelenskyy and others, are saying we have got to stop this attack on these -- these terror attacks, these attacks that create chaos within the population.

And it's very difficult to do when the opponent that you're facing, the Russian Army, is conducting their approach toward citizens as opposed to the soldiers of Ukraine.

BROWN: I want to ask you about Russian targeting and the weapons that they're using, what we're seeing, this escalation using these hypersonic missiles to destroy an ammunitions warehouse in western Ukraine this week.

[20:10:00]

Can Ukraine defend against these missiles? If not, does this bolster the argument for a no-fly zone?

HERTLING: Well, it's very difficult to defend against a hypersonic missile. They're traveling at five times the speed of sound.

This particular one, as I understand, was launched from the Black Sea, so outside of the territory of Ukraine. It would have been very difficult for any missile system to knock this down when it was coming in.

NATO tracked this missile, which I think is really an important feature of what's going on.

And the fact that Russia used this missile tells me two things.

Number one, they wanted to display a show to NATO that they have these weapons systems, which they have been making big pronouncements about even as long ago as a year ago that they have these hypersonic missiles.

Number two, that they are using precision-made weapons in certain circumstances. So they do have the capability to launch precision weapons when they want to hit a target precisely.

Which, to me, reinforces the criminality of the Russian force in using area weapons against the civilian population.

There is not military target in the cities of Mariupol or Kharkiv or any of places where they have continuously struck arbitrarily civilian targets without precision weapons.

So this just makes a case, in my view, that they are committing war crimes.

BROWN: And it makes you worry about the escalation in this, especially toward civilians.

This viewer gets to that point in this question to us, saying: We've heard a lot about -- lot of talk about Russia possibly using chemical weapons in Ukraine.

My question is, if they do use them, do you think Russia will let the world know, or how do we know they actually used them? Once we find out, would it be too late to do anything about it?

HERTLING: One of the interesting things about the administration giving information about what Russia is going do next, there's the potential for Russia to use weapons of mass destruction, either chemical, biological, or nuclear.

And the administration has said that's a potential. So it's attempted to preempt the use of these weapons.

But I also think we've heard the president say, if this, in fact, is done, that Russia will pay a very high price for doing so.

I think this would cross a very interesting line where NATO could become more involved in preventing the use of these kinds of weapons of mass destruction.

But it would also put Russia on the horns of a dilemma of being the first force to use these kinds of weapons in a conventional war in history since World War II.

So it, again, further exacerbates the fact that Russia is using the types of weapons against civilians that would contribute to their further status as war criminals, and people will be held accountable if they do.

BROWN: Yes. Clearly, they have no regard for these innocent civilians, no matter who they are, children, mothers, fathers. It's just disgusting to see.

General Hertling, thank you.

HERTLING: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: We've been getting great questions from viewers about Russia's war in Ukraine. I just asked one. If you have one, email it to me, Email it to me at PamBrownCNN@gmail.com, and I'll aim to ask it to our experts this weekend.

Up next, the fog of war. Possible Russian saboteurs creeping into Ukraine making it hard to know who can be trusted.

And medical mission to Ukraine. A group of female medics from the U.S. have had enough of watching the conflict on television. So now they're headed into Lviv next week. They share their story moment.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:17]

BROWN: We are all feeling it -- at least those of us with a heart and a soul. Just sitting on the sidelines, just that helplessness, that feeling of watching horror unfold in Ukraine.

Donating to relief efforts is about the only thing most of us can do right now.

But my next guests decided they have to do more. So they are about to leave for Ukraine to offer medical and disaster relief training.

Let me introduce you to Babs and Dotty.

For privacy reasons, they've asked us not to use their last names on air.

Great to see you ladies before you take off to Ukraine. Incredible what you're about to do.

Babs, let's start with you.

You are an emergency medicine physician. You have worked for 12 years in disaster relief.

Dotty, you're a nurse practitioner.

Babs, tell me about the call you got two weeks ago from a doctor you know in Ukraine that got all of this started.

BABS, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: I received a phone call from a friend who asked if I could have any connections to any of the teams I've worked with before in disaster relief because they were desperately looking for help in the local hospital in Lviv. So I reached out to several teams that I worked with before on several

disaster relief missions. And I was kind of shocked by everybody saying, yes, we have teams on the ground, and on -- on the border section and neighboring countries.

But nobody wanted to go in actually to the Ukraine. Which that's the place where the most vulnerable and the oldest and the sickest people actually are. They can't make it out. So it was heartbreaking to hear that.

BROWN: So you made some calls. You put together a group to head to Lviv pretty quickly, right?

BABS: Oh, it just happened within --

[20:20:02]

BROWN: Two weeks?

BABS: -- two weeks, yes.

BROWN: Wow.

BABS: Yes. It just -- I just made phone calls and talked to friends and said, do you know anybody that would send a team? And then a friend said, no, but you know, if you put a team together, I will -- I will go.

And that's how the team kind of just came together.

BROWN: And it's mostly women, right? Was that intentional?

BABS: No, it wasn't.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: It's a further example that women can run the world.

BABS: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes.

We have some guys on the team, and we love them. But I think 80 percent of us are women.

BROWN: So you're going -- I want to be clear for our viewers who are wondering now -- you are going as private citizens, not part of any group like Team Rubicon or Doctors Without Borders.

Why is that, Babs?

And I'm going to get to you in a second, Dotty.

BABS: Well, there's a lot of red tape right now.

Any time you enter the Ukraine, and there's a symbol or anything that could just indicate that there's U.S. involvement, it could be construed that the U.S. is getting involved. And it could be a political statement and cause an issue. So nobody is

-- nobody wants to get involved. Everybody's hands off. Everybody's afraid of having a repercussion.

So we're private citizens. We know the risk we're taking. We're going in, we're taking that risk freely. We all made that individual decision to go and to help.

We're not going to sue anybody. That's another thing. If you have an organization and you lose one of your members, there could be an issue.

We're all taking this risk. We know what we're facing. And we just want to go and help.

BROWN: Dotty, I want to bring you in because this is a huge risk. I mean, you could -- frankly, you're putting your life at risk.

When you got the call to join this team to go over to Ukraine, did you have any hesitation about signing up to this plan? What was your reaction?

DOTTY, NURSE PRACTITIONER: When Babs first approached me a couple weeks ago and asked me if I was interested -- and I was -- I had recently come back from Honduras in January, so I was on a trip then.

And it's something that I love to do. I love to help, you know. As nurses and doctors, you know, compassion for these people that are just hurting so bad.

And I -- I do understand the risk involved. We're taking steps, you know, for our protection. And we just hope and pray that nothing does happen.

And there's a lot of people out there supporting us, praying for us. So I think we're in pretty good hands.

And you know, we wouldn't go in if it was dangerous for us. And the doctor, the medical doctor over there understands that, too.

So we'll -- we hope to get there, do what we can, and then, you know, when it's time to leave, we'll have to say good-bye at that point.

BROWN: Was there anything, Dotty, specific, that convinced you I've got to go over there, I've got to help these people?

We've been seeing images of the theater in Mariupol being bombed, and we showed this mom who shielded her baby, she was breast-feeding in the hospital.

And is there anything that just pulled at you so strongly?

DOTTY: I think it all is -- you know, as nurses, as doctors, you know, we have seen trauma. We've seen death. And it is life changing.

I expect to come back a different person, more powerful than I was, I'm hoping.

It's just something in your heart -- I'm following my heart. And this is what it's telling me to do.

BROWN: That's just a beautiful thing that it's -- you're following your heart and you're actually taking action because you have experience, you have skills that could really help these people who are suffering in Ukraine.

And, Babs, I understand your husband thinks you're nuts, right? I mean, he's like, what, what are you doing? Why are you doing this?

(LAUGHTER)

BABS: My whole family thinks I'm nuts. I think my neighborhood thinks I'm nuts.

(LAUGHTER)

BABS: But sometimes you've got to do something that's out of the norm.

We wouldn't have airplanes if people were scared of flying. We wouldn't be going to the moon -- you don't reach a limit until you push that limit and say, all right.

How can we stand back and watch these children murdered, how can we stand back and watch the suffering?

And if we have an ability to help, it's our duty to help. So I just can't watch it anymore.

There's 10 of us who couldn't watch it anymore. And the 10 of us I think will make a huge difference.

We're the first ones in. We're going to call ourselves The First Ones In. And we will make a difference. We know we will bring some hope and bring some healing to those in the Ukraine.

[20:25:02]

BROWN: You absolutely will.

Let me tell you something, you are already making a difference by inspiring myself, all the viewers who are watching right now, listening to you tell your story of getting that phone call from the doctor in Ukraine and putting this group together in two weeks and heading over to help those in need.

Babs and Dotty, thank you, and best of luck to you. Please keep us posted on how everything is going for you guys on your journey. And we'll definitely be keeping tabs on it.

DOTTY: Thank you, Pam.

BABS: Thank you so much.

DOTTY: Yes.

BROWN: If you want to help Babs and Dotty's cause, log on to firstonesinUkraine.com, firstonesinUkraine.com.

And remember, you can also help by going to CNN.com/impact.

As Ukraine tries to keep invading Russian forces out of its biggest cities, everyday citizens are on high alert, even stopping strangers on the street.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:27]

BROWN: Well, Putin's war is not only destroying cities and costing human lives in Ukraine, it also runs something so simple as human trust. Everyone it seem is suspicious of everyone else now, as our Scott McLean found out for himself

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Days after the invasion began this Lviv office was set up to help Ukrainians fleeing war, but not everyone who comes here is welcome.

Shortly after we arrived, the man we're filming draws suspicion from staff. They tell us he has links to Russia. Police are called, documents are checked, questions are asked, more than an hour passes and he tells us his only link to Russia was a five-year-old passport stamp. They let him go.

MCLEAN (on camera): Even here in Lviv, a city that is far removed from the frontlines, we've had the police called on us twice, we've been asked to show our documents more times than I can count and some people even say that random ordinary citizens are asking total strangers to produce identification.

But if somebody asked you for your identification or your passport, you wouldn't think it was weird?

ANATOLII HRYHORIV, LVIV UKRAINE RESIDENT: I wouldn't think -- for now, I wouldn't think.

MCLEAN: Anatolii Hryhoriv says two weeks ago, he was walking home after sheltering in this bunker during an air raid alert.

And you saw two guys that look suspicious?

HRYHORIV: Yes, and they were going into the bushes.

MCLEAN: And they were walking through the bushes.

HRYHORIV: They physically grabbed them here and didn't let them go. They could probably let them go, but if they could show us some documents or something, but they didn't. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): They want to destroy Ukraine politically by destroying the head of state. We have information that enemy sabotage groups have entered Kyiv.

MCLEAN: Ever since the President's warning, CNN found that in Mykolaiv, any man out after curfew, get special attention from police. And then Kyiv, even those fleeing through humanitarian corridors. Don't escape scrutiny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we are afraid that Russians may have sent some of their own.

MCLEAN: Ukraine's rail chief says security has been beefed up to guard against saboteurs planting special targets to guide Russian missiles. Staff detained this man near Kharkiv.

OLEKSANDR KAMYSHIN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, UKRAINIAN RAILWAYS: Constantly gauge them and send them to police.

MCLEAN: How do you know for sure?

KAMYSHIN: Russian documents, many other stuff.

MCLEAN: A few days into the war, Volodymyr lit. VINs wife says she spotted suspicious vehicles without headlights outside their home near the airport. By the time, he went to investigate, police were already there pointing guns in his direction.

VOLODYMYR LYTVYN, LVIV, UKRAINE RESIDENT: It was an unpleasant experience for me, but I'm happy that there's such security measures. If you're an honest person and have no bad intentions, there is nothing to worry about.

MCLEAN: Was the word saboteur in your vocabulary before the war started?

LYTVYN: No.

MCLEAN: But finding links to Russia is complicated in a country filled with Russian speakers.

ROKSOLANA YAVORSKA, SPOKESWOMAN, UKRAINE SECURITY SERVICE (through translator): It is simply impossible to consider every Russian speaking person is saboteur. A saboteur may have a characteristic Russian accent, not just be a Russian speaker.

MCLEAN: The Ukrainian Security Service in Lviv says only soldiers and law enforcement can demand a person's documents. But in war time --

YAVORSKA (through translator): To detain or not to detain the suspect with your own hands is a decision of each person.

MCLEAN: Despite all the hype, she say not a single person in Lviv has been charged yet with sabotage.

Scott McLean, CNN, Lviv, Ukraine. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, the U.S. says Russia may have already lost as many as 10,000 soldiers in Ukraine. And the U.K. says back in Moscow, Vladimir Putin is panicking about a possible uprising in Moscow. So with his back seemingly against a wall, what is Putin capable of? We're going to discuss, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:21]

BROWN: President Biden and response promising America's unwavering support, but stopping short of agreeing to Zelenskyy's request for fighter jets and a no-fly zone. It is the latest in the administration's effort to support Ukraine without provoking a larger potentially nuclear conflict.

And joining me now is White House National Security correspondent at the New York Times, David Sanger. So you would write in this lace article for The Times, David, that there is a big concern among U.S. officials of things escalating with Russia, as we know. With Putin in a corner, what is he capable of? What is the big concern right now among U.S. officials?

[20:40:00]

DAVID SANGER, WHITE HOUSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, Pamela, thanks for having me on. The biggest concern right now is not really that he would expand the war horizontally that is to say into Moldova or Georgia, but rather that corner he would begin to take stock of using chemical, biological, or even nuclear weapons.

You heard Secretary of State Blinken talk about the chemical and biological threat. We've reported in recent days that there was a separate warning sent about nuclear threats. So far, we haven't seen evidence of that. But just the news that you reported before about the use of a hypersonic weapon, which is not nuclear and not bio, not chem, tells you that in this very old style war, he's very quickly turning to some of the newest weapons that Russia has handy. And, of course, we've long been expecting that he'll make use of cyber weapons probably against the American financial system to retaliate for the sanctions.

BROWN: Right, because there's been a big question about why haven't we seen that yet. And in your article, you talk about how he's waiting potentially for the right moment, or at least that is the view of U.S. officials. And, you know, we talked about the escalation and he's turning more toward hypersonic missiles, what could come next.

U.S. official said that the expectation was he thought he could Kyiv in two days, here we are nearly a month in, that hasn't happened. You're also reporting the time today that the U.S. has quietly floated to Turkey a plan to transfer its Russian supplied anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine. Why would this be a significant move? SANGER: It will be significant on a couple of different important scales now. The first is Putin made a very big effort to draw turkey out of NATO. And they sort of have had one foot in and one foot out. And they purchased, three years ago, the S-400, which is a very capable long-range anti-aircraft system. They never unpacked it, because the United States invoked a series of sanctions against them saying you can't be using a Russian system and also expect us to sell you our F-35 fighters, which that system is designed to go take down.

So the Turks haven't really known how to get out of this. Very quietly, the U.S. has come to them in recent weeks, and said, we have an idea, send those systems to Ukraine, let them use the Russian anti- aircraft against Russian fighters. Should be quite a turn of events.

The U.S. would then backfill from that with American anti-aircraft systems, get Turkey out of the doghouse and begin to revive the F-35 program. We haven't heard a word from Turkey about what their view is of this. It's a really hard choice as hard as the one facing the Chinese.

BROWN: Yes. Let's talk about the Chinese because we know that President Biden spoke with China's President for two hours yesterday warning him of consequences if China helps Russia. And we know that Xi Jinping has referred to Putin as his best and dearest friend.

One viewer actually wrote in and had this question for you. Wanted to know, what does China have to gain from helping Russia? What does China have to gain by supporting Russia financially or militarily?

SANGER: They only have one thing to gain. That's a really excellent question that your viewers asked there. And that is that they need a partner, a large partner and preferably a nuclear armed one to join in the Axis of Resistance to the United States and the West, and that was naturally Vladimir Putin.

Neither one of these, men represent company -- countries that are communist anymore, instead, they represent an authoritarian model. The problem that the Chinese are facing right now is that their new authoritarian partner may be viewed around the world as a complete pariah. And the question is, how closely do they want to be tied to him?

And that's what made the phone call with President Biden, which lasted nearly two hours yesterday. So interesting, because Biden was making the case. You don't want to be associated with this guy. And you don't want to suffer the sanctions that he's suffering.

BROWN: All right. David Sanger, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much for your time tonight.

SANGER: Thank you, Pam. Great to be with you.

BROWN: And up next, after a dozen interviews with White House staff, a lawmaker CNN is getting a behind the scenes look at President Biden's strategy for handling Vladimir Putin, and we're learning it involves cutting him off, literally. We're going to explain right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:20]

BROWN: So, if you want to understand the strategy President Biden has been pursuing with Vladimir Putin, consider a meeting that he held with the Russian leader at the Kremlin more than a decade ago. As Biden tells us, he told Putin quote, I'm looking in your eyes and don't think you have a soul.

Well, this week, with the war in Ukraine intensifying, once again, Biden didn't hold back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is Putin a war criminal, sir?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, I think he is a war criminal.

The murderous dictator, a pure thug who is waging an immoral war against the people of Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN recently conducted a dozen interviews with White House officials, Members of Congress and others about Biden's strategy for handling Putin.

[20:50:04]

And joining me now is CNN senior reporter, Isaac Dovere. So, Isaac, you've learned some interesting details about how Biden approached conversations in the past with Putin. What more did you learn about that?

ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, that that conversation you were talking about in 2011, he says that Putin's response when he said, eyes in the soul is, we understand each other. This is Joe Biden taking a measure of a man as he tends to do. He always -- he talks about foreign relations being about relationships. And he has an assessment of Vladimir Putin that's been guiding him through this, that Putin wants this to be a military empire rebuild that he also wants it to be a kind of one on one showdown with Washington versus Moscow. And Biden has been very deliberate about not giving Putin that kind of dynamic.

BROWN: And Biden was Vice President when, of course, Putin invaded Crimea in 2014. There was criticism at the time, as I recall, that the U.S. didn't do enough to punish him then. So what lessons did Biden learn from that crisis that he may be applying now?

Well, you remember what happens in 2014 and Putin goes into Crimea. And it's a process of weeks and months and allies arguing with each other, and the Europeans not sorting out what to do about sanctions. And finally, they put in sanctions, but obviously ones that weren't so strong that they made a big impact on Vladimir Putin.

Biden thought what needs to happen here with Putin is that there needs to be a fast response and a united response, that there is a real sense of the world turning on Russia, that allies together are saying, no, and they move quickly and ratcheted up. By the way, in a faster pace on some levels -- than even the White House was expected would be possible.

BROWN: And he isn't just playing to a foreign audience, we should know. I mean, he has domestic politics to manage as well. How has Biden dealt with some of the criticism from Republicans on his handling of this?

DOVERE: There is an unmistakable dynamic that is going on in Washington, which is that except for some outliers among Republicans. There is unanimity and condemning Putin, which is a real change from where things were in 2014 to Crimea, where there was a lot of conversation among Republican leaders comparing Putin to Barack Obama at the time, it's like, he's a real leader. He's strong, he's decisive.

Biden has purposely depoliticized any of the talk about Putin and about this not saying as some Democrats would like them to say, Republicans are soft on Russia, or reminding the public about what happened in that first impeachment of Donald Trump that was about your aid to Ukraine, and that is to try to make sure that Putin doesn't succeed in dividing the American public, which is also in Biden's assessment, a real goal of his

BROWN: Oh, yes. To sow distrust. That is why the U.S. officials say Russia interfered in the U.S. election.

DOVERE: Indeed.

BROWN: All right. Isaac Dovere, thank you very much.

And we now have to tell you about another senseless gun violence death in America. And unfortunately, this one hits close to home for our CNN family. Former CNN news assistant, Sierra Jenkins, was among five people shot early this morning in Norfolk, Virginia.

She and another person died as a result of their injuries. Sierra was just 25 years old, a budding journalist, a rising star. After starting out at CNN as an intern in 2020. She quickly rose to the position of news assisted with the CNN health team in the fall of that year, right in the middle of the pandemic.

She was currently working with the Virginian-Pilot as a breaking news reporter, her editor-in-chief saying words we here at CNN know too well to be true, quote, her passion for journalism was undeniable and our community is better because of her reporting.

A digital editor had attempted to contact Sierra this morning about the shooting, but was unable to reach her. And when the paper called in another reporter, that is when they discovered that Sierra was one of the victims. Authorities are investigating the shooting and asking the public to come forward with any information.

In the meantime, all of us here at CNN want to send our heartfelt condolences to Sierra's family and friends. We'll be right back.

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[20:55:00]

BROWN: We'll start in high school in Paris without speaking French isn't your typical high school experience. But for these 15-year-old Ukrainian twins fleeing a war, it's as close to normal as they've been in a long time. Masha and Sasha fled Kiev and arrived in Paris on March 5, they left their father, a police officer behind to fight. And their mother lives with them in an apartment close to their school where they are learning French.

Although they're safe, Sasha says she worries about her father and relatives not knowing if they're still alive since they can't be reached by phone. Her twin Masha holds on to the hope that they will return to their home in Ukraine, reunite with family and give them all a big hug.

Well, to help people in Ukraine with shelter, food, and water, please go to cnn.com/impact. You'll find links to several vetted organizations that are working on the ground there.

And their next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russia is surprised by the ferocity and scale of Ukraine resistance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The armed forces of Ukraine continue to deliver a devastating blow that groups of enemy troops.