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Dozens Feared Dead in Bombing of Ukraine Army Barracks; U.S. General Says Russian Troops Do Not Appear Motivated; War Refugees Spread Out across Europe; Ukrainian Officer Speaks about the Realities of War; Ukraine Claims 14,000 Russian Troops Killed in Fighting; U.S. and Chinese Leaders Speak on Ukraine; Empty Strollers Mark the War Deaths of over 100 Children. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired March 19, 2022 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers around the world and in the United States this hour. It is just past 6 am here in Lviv, Ukraine. I am Hala Gorani.
An offer and a warning from Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He says it's time for talks to stop the attacks on his country or Russia will face serious consequences.
Those comments come after the Ukrainian military reportedly suffered significant losses early on Friday. Russian bombers struck army barracks in the southern city of Mykolaiv. No casualty figures have been released but it is feared that dozens of Ukrainian soldiers may have been killed in this attack.
Swedish journalists shot video of rescuers, pulling one person from the debris. And in the besieged port city of Mariupol, drone footage shows the utter devastation that Russian forces have unleashed in three weeks of warfare.
A huge shopping mall stands gutted and burned out, along with blocks of charred apartment buildings. The Russian offensive, though, has stalled without any major urban centers being captured.
New satellite images show some Russian forces taking up defensive positions, digging earthen berms for protection. Ukraine claims it has killed 14,000 Russian troops so far, though CNN cannot verify that figure. Ukraine's president says Moscow needs to quit, before Russian losses escalate higher.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): I want everyone to hear me now, especially I want them to hear me in Moscow. It's time to meet, time to talk, time to restore territorial integrity and justice for Ukraine or else Russia will face such losses that several generations will not be enough for it to rise back up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: In the United States, President Biden spoke for nearly two hours with China's President Xi Jinping, warning of unspecified consequences if Beijing assists the Russian side. We'll have more on that later this hour.
As the conflict enters its fourth week, CNN's Kristin Fisher has the latest developments from across the war zone.
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KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Russia is broadening its targets with new airstrikes hitting the western city of Lviv, which previously had been largely spared. The mayor confirming missiles hit near the airport.
The city is just over 40 miles from the border with Poland, a NATO country and Lviv has been a haven for refugees fleeing the conflict are a stop on the way to Europe.
And Russia is not letting up on the capital, Kyiv, with new strikes on the northern residential district, Ukrainian Emergency Services say one person died after remains of a downed missile set fire to a residential building.
In the northeast, fires broke out in this massive market in the city of Kharkiv after it was shelled by Russian forces. City officials say one rescue worker died.
In the southern city of Mariupol, 130 people have been rescued from that makeshift shelter bombed by Russian forces, a theater with the Russian word for "children" written beside the building. Russia denies the attack.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Hundreds of Mariupol residents are still under the debris despite the shelling, despite all the difficulties, we will continue rescue work.
FISHER (voice-over): The seemingly intentional targeting of civilians has led many in the Biden administration, including the President and Secretary of State to accuse Russia of war crimes, as the State Department works to gather evidence against Russian President Vladimir Putin.
WENDY SHERMAN, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: In terms of international law, you have to have evidence, you have to have a body of proof that in fact, there was intentionality.
FISHER (voice-over): And as civilians die in Ukraine, Putin held a concert marking the anniversary of the Russian annexation of Crimea. The concert featured patriotic songs like this one "Called made in the USSR."
Putin claims Russia has never been more united as his country suffers a collapsing economy caused by Western sanctions.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The best proof is the way our boys are fighting in this operation, shoulder to shoulder, supporting each other and if need be, protecting each other like brothers.
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FISHER (voice-over): That's not how a top U.S. general sees it.
GEN. KENNETH MCKENZIE JR., CENTRAL COMMAND: They don't appear, from where I sit at least, to be particularly motivated or particularly engaged in the campaign that they're undertaking.
FISHER (voice-over): Kristin Fisher, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, as the Russian ground offensive largely grinds to a halt, the U.S. Defense Secretary, Lloyd Austin, says things are clearly not going according to plan for Moscow. He spoke with CNN's Don Lemon during a visit to Sofia, Bulgaria, Friday.
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DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: What is your assessment of Russian forces now?
Are they stalled?
Are they regrouping?
So that they can increase their assault or increase their violence in Ukraine?
What's your assessment of the Russian military?
GEN. LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, it's hard to tell, Don. I think, you know, they have not progressed as far as quickly as they would have like to.
They, I think they envisioned that they would move rapidly and very quickly seize the capital city. They've not been able to do that. They've struggled with logistics, so we've seen a number of missteps along the way.
I don't see, you know, evidence of good employment of tactical intelligence. I don't see integration of, you know, air capability with the ground, ground maneuver.
And so, there are a number of things that we would expect to have seen that we haven't seen. And the Russians really have had some, have presented them some problems. So many of their assumptions have not -- have not proven to be true as they entered this fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GORANI: Well, Austin also said he was hoping China wouldn't offer
military or economic support to Russia, which Moscow had reportedly requested. That's obviously the U.S. and the Western position, hoping China will not jump in to actually offer support.
Let's get more now on Vladimir Putin's defense of Russia's invasion, at that enormous rally in Moscow. Some of those attending said they felt pressured by bosses at work to attend. Mr. Putin laid the blame for the operation on Ukraine rather than on Russia, the invader, saying it was necessary to protect the people in the Donbas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): To free the people from suffering and this genocide is a main initiating reason and goal for Russia starting a special operation in Donbas and Ukraine.
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GORANI: Now with us now from New Haven, Connecticut, is Matthew Schmidt, professor of national security and political science at the University of New Haven.
So Matthew, obviously, Lloyd Austin, other Americans -- we know that Joe Biden spoke with Xi Jinping yesterday -- do not want China to jump in to help Russia. Now one would think that, economically, China would want only one thing, which is for this whole thing to end, so that they can focus on its post-COVID economic recovery.
Do you think that despite that, China will weigh in on the side of Russia in any kind of significant way?
MATTHEW SCHMIDT, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAVEN: I think in the end, China is trying to please both sides. But ultimately, you have to get in the mind of Xi Jinping. And he is looking out 10-20 years, thinking that China's moment on the world stage, to try to become the second-tier competitor to the United States, for the rest of the century, that is what he's worried about protecting.
And he understands that ultimately Russia is a bad bet for that. And he's not going to say no in any sort of hard way, he is going to try to play both sides. But in the end, he's not going to sacrifice his opportunity 10-20 years from now to put China in that position for Russia today.
GORANI: So can Russia pull this off, this invasion, this unprovoked attack, without the help of China?
SCHMIDT: It depends on what we mean by pull it off. They're having real trouble on the ground, you know, as your previous guests have pointed out. But in the end, they have to win this politically. In the end, the point is to use military force to try to achieve some political situation in Ukraine.
And as long as the Ukrainians are committed to this fight, it doesn't seem that they're going to be able to do that. And also, Russia is gambling, you know, of burgeoning (ph) protest movements, ominously on this northern flank.
So in a sense, Putin is surrendered on both sides here with a stuttering war in the south and a burgeoning protest movement in its own backyard.
GORANI: Pulling it off, what I mean by that is, can they bomb?
Can they send ground troops?
Can they hold territory?
Can they install a puppet government?
Can they do all these things that Vladimir Putin wants to do, to subdue this country and essentially bring it firmly back into the Russian sphere of influence?
SCHMIDT: They can do many of those things. You know, before the war started, most of would have said they could do all of those things with their overwhelming military force. But that doesn't seem as overwhelming now. But they --
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SCHMIDT: -- even if they can't do all those things militarily, achieve those military objectives, they are unable to translate those military objectives into the political objective that they want.
The Ukrainian people simply will not allow Russian rule, whether it's a republic government or directly from Putin. They have made that clear in words and they made that clear with the blood in the streets that they've been spilling in order to defend their country.
And that's not going away in the next week or two weeks. They've spilled too much blood already. And they will play an effective insurgency against Russia, in the same way that the Afghans or the Iraqis did against Western powers. Except there are more Ukrainians, they're better armed, they're better trained.
GORANI: Yes, well, they have the kind of weaponry, obviously, that the insurgents in those other countries you mentioned did not have. I mean, they are, with a Stinger missile, they're able to take a low- flying airplane, certainly helicopters.
They've shown that they can do that.
But I wonder, do you think on the Russian side, there is any realization that this could potentially, ultimately, be fruitless for the reasons that you just described?
Even if they flatten buildings and burn shopping centers in cities like Mariupol, fundamentally, they won't hold the terrain because the Ukrainians simply just do not want them here?
SCHMIDT: So we've seen a good bit of evidence coming from military leaders, people in security services that's been leaking out, that indicates that people at that senior level are well aware of the problems that they're facing in Ukraine.
In fact, in many cases were caught off guard by Putin's desire to engage in this kind of war in Ukraine, precisely because they thought it wasn't winnable in a political sense. So we've seen a lot of that.
What we don't know is how far up that gets. We don't know how isolated Putin is and what he is hearing. And if he's hearing it, if he's believing it. What you saw in the rally that you showed a clip of before, it is really frightening, I think, for Putin because something happened.
Now I've heard reports from people in Moscow that he was booed. I can't confirm that but I have heard enough of that, that I think the sense is in Moscow and that the rumor is in Moscow, that there is a lot of dissent underneath things here, that he may well have been booed, which must have frightened him.
To look out at his domestic front, in this thing, if he's getting booed in Moscow, then he must start to understand how bad it is in Ukraine and that should make Ukrainians scared and it should make the West scared.
GORANI: So the Ukrainians are saying they've inflicted quite a bit of damage to the Russian military in Ukraine, that they've killed 14,000 troops.
Does that sound like a realistic number to you?
SCHMIDT: It does. I have been getting reports from the Ukrainian ministry of defense, from people that I know, other reporters in Ukraine, Ukrainian reporters. And it tracks. I was dubious at the start. But we've seen Ukrainian military outperform expectations and we've seen the Russian military underperform and really quite poorly.
And I think those numbers, you know, make sense. They may be a little bit high but not by much. If 14,000 is high, then I would absolutely have to believe 10,000. And that's more than the Russians would've lost in the same amount of time in Afghanistan in the '80s. So for those Russians who are paying attention, this --
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GORANI: That is during the whole war that you're talking. And here, we're talking --
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SCHMIDT: Right, right.
GORANI: All right --
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GORANI: -- yes, go ahead, finish your thought.
SCHMIDT: No, this is a bloodbath for the Russians and the question is how they will react to that.
GORANI: Absolutely. Thank you so much, really appreciate your analysis, Matthew Schmidt, speaking to us from New Haven, Connecticut.
Coming up, Poland has become a refuge for millions of Ukrainians, with thousands more arriving every day.
How long before resources run out there?
That is just ahead.
Plus, a Ukrainian officer opens up about the harsh realities of the war on the ground. Why he believes that dying is not the worst thing that can happen to Ukrainian soldiers.
Stay with us.
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GORANI: Refugees from Ukraine are spreading out across Europe, hundreds of the displaced reached Munich aboard a train from Budapest on Friday. Most were women and children, as you can see from the images on your screen. Many others were elderly.
Germany has received nearly 200,000 refugees so far. According to the U.N., more than 3.2 million have now fled the fighting in Ukraine. At least 2 million have crossed into Poland. And many of those people have now moved on to other European countries.
The current flow of refugees into Poland is still quite high and it's putting a burden on small border towns, as the influx is showing really no signs of slowing significantly. CNN's Melissa Bell has that story.
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MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been a long road. Liberty may lie ahead. But at least safety has been reached for now. Ukrainian children and their mothers who've made it just across the border to Poland, their first night of peace spent in a school gym, so much of what is here provided by volunteers.
ADAM WASOWICZ, VOLUNTEER: In the beginning, the aid flowed spontaneously from many different sources. But I must admit these were not from the government. I do not hide that we are disappointed here because this volunteering has accelerated. We are starting to fade here.
BELL (voice-over): But still more refugees arrive at the border town of Przemysl -- about 1,000 per train and several trains a day, carrying what little they can have of their former lives --
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BELL (voice-over): -- pinning their hopes of survival on the kindness of strangers, mainly women and children who've left their fighting aged men behind.
ALESSANDRA OVSIIENKO, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: It's difficult. And really, I don't know what I feel. Because I have a little baby, I love my family, I hope I had plans. And now I don't have plans.
BELL (voice-over): Of the more than 3 million who fled Ukraine, about 2 million have come to Poland, a figure that means that the country's population has risen by 5 percent.
WOJCIECH BAKUN, MAYOR OF PRZEMYSL, POLAND: We react very quickly but we can do this for three or four weeks, not for long time. So we just wait for reaction, our government as well as E.U. countries.
BELL (voice-over): In Brussels, the commissioner in charge gave a tour on Thursday of the Emergency Response Coordination Center, from where the European Union is organizing its largest emergency response to date.
JAENZ LENARCIC, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR CRISIS MANAGEMENT: We now have 1 million refugees per week. So if this goes on, if this goes on 10 more weeks, yes, we could reach the figure of 15 million people.
BELL (voice-over): European transport ministers meeting last weekend in the Polish city of Krakow to try and figure out the problem of bottlenecks caused by the sheer number of people arriving at places like Przemysl station, seeking peace and for now, just safety -- Melissa Bell, CNN, Chernihiv, Poland.
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GORANI: For the Ukrainians who stayed at home to fight, there could be possibly more at stake. They're the only thing standing really between the Russian military and their homes, towns and cities.
We spoke to one battalion commander about the realities of the war. And he told CNN's Ivan Watson, dying is only the second worst thing that can happen to Ukrainian soldiers.
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MAJ. SERHII TAMARIN, UKRAINIAN TERRITORIAL DEFENSE: It's not so scary to die. It's much more scary to lose.
When we met the second army in the world by statistic, we expected more professionals, we expected more aggressive and more strong fighting. IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Your battalion filmed this.
TAMARIN: It's hitting in Russian tanks.
WATSON: And that's hit by Ukrainian artillery.
TAMARIN: Artillery. Yes.
WATSON (voice-over): Drone footage that CNN cannot independently verify from battlefields northwest of Kyiv, filmed by a battalion of Ukraine's territorial defense force, commanded by Major Serhii Tamarin.
WATSON: Has your battalion had casualties?
TAMARIN: Yes, yes.
WATSON: People killed, people wounded.
TAMARIN: Yes, I prefer not to tell the number of people but we have I already lost my friends and people who suffer with me. We have people who wounded.
WATSON: What is the weapon that is hurting your men?
TAMARIN: The most dangerous it's artillery.
WATSON (voice-over): Tamarin is a veteran of the long war against Russian backed separatists in Ukraine southeastern Donbas region, he re-enlisted along with most of his battalion of nearly 400 after Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24th. He calls his strategy aggressive resistance.
TAMARIN: Just separating for small troops. Not more than 10 people with a few grenade launchers and some kind of clean up group with rifles and machine guns. I can say is that Russian army -- regular army infantry groups fight well.
They even have food bags, which is expired few years ago, so they don't have normal food. They don't have even water.
WATSON: Your battalion, how many armored vehicles tanks do you think you've destroyed?
TAMARIN: Right now?
More than 20 it's not only tanks, it's like tanks and other vehicle.
WATSON: Does your battalion have an estimate for how many Russians they killed?
TAMARIN: For now we destroy almost 200 Russians, captured alive closer to six or eight soldiers.
WATSON (voice-over): Tamarin is recovering from injuries sustained during a combat operation.
TAMARIN: Our car is fall down from the bridge which was blown up. Half of my ribs broken.
WATSON (voice-over): He says his men have started to receive some foreign weapons shoulder fired missiles.
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WATSON (voice-over): And he's confident Ukraine will have victory but at a terrible price.
TAMARIN: Is the price which pay Ukraine right now is I think impossible. It's some kind of whole nightmare, sacrifice of all nation.
WATSON (voice-over): Ivan Watson, CNN, Vinnytsia, Ukraine.
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GORANI: Well, missiles are leaving scenes of destruction in parts of the Ukrainian capital. We will show you what remains in the wake of a downed rocket in Kyiv. Stay with us. A lot of our breaking news coverage is ahead.
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GORANI: Welcome back. I am Hala Gorani in Lviv, Ukraine.
Fighting is ramping up for control of the southern port city of Mykolaiv. You're looking at the aftermath of a Russian strike there, on a Ukrainian base on Friday, utter devastation.
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GORANI: Soldiers are working to pull people from the rubble but dozens are feared dead.
One of the surviving soldiers told Swedish journalists from our affiliate that it appears that most people inside were killed.
And meanwhile, getting new images from Mariupol, one of the worst-hit cities. Much of it lies in ruins, after days of nonstop Russian shelling.
France says president Emmanuel Macron made an appeal to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, Friday, to stop the siege on Mariupol, to at least allow humanitarian access.
Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, has a new message for Moscow meantime, saying it's in Russia's best interest to negotiate for peace. He spoke after Vladimir Putin appeared before a large crowd at a Moscow stadium, to mark the anniversary of Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014. Listen.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Just imagine, 14,000 dead bodies at that stadium in Moscow and tens of thousands of wounded, maimed people. That is how great are the Russian losses already as a result of this invasion. That's the price of a war in a little of three weeks.
The war must be stopped. The Ukrainian proposal is on the table.
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GORANI: Well, a downed Russian cruise missile landed near a school building in northern Kyiv on Friday. As CNN's Sam Kiley shows us, the destruction that resulted from that one missile alone is staggering.
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SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the scene in Vynohradiv, the northern edge of Kyiv, where a cruise missile landed here in the small hours of this morning. Now officially, according to the authorities, it was shot down. Normally, that would mean that the warhead was destroyed in the air.
But, clearly, that is not the case.
Beyond this truck here, beyond the JCP working, a kindergarten. Mercifully, no children in it because of the level of bombardment of Kyiv, of course, the kindergartens are closed. At this right opposite, another school for older children.
But look at the ferocity of the blast. That is what remains of a vehicle, right at the epicenter of this blast, an absolute scene of devastation.
If we look over this way, you can see an extraordinary level of devastation in this very densely populated residential area.
These are homes, humble homes of ordinary Ukrainians, struggling to get by, working with dignity, hoping one day to join the European community, possibly even NATO and this, from Vladimir Putin's perspective, is the result.
Now if we walk over this way, you can see just how devastating the size of these weapons. It's quite extraordinary. This is the result of one single blast, a blast that has ripped through this community, peppering cars with shrapnel holes.
Every one of those would have torn through dozens of people, every one of those bits of flying hot metal designed to rip into human flesh like a razor, white-hot and burning. And, of course, mercifully, no children playing in the kindergarten -- Sam Kiley, CNN in Kyiv.
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GORANI: Let's bring in retired U.S. Army Major General Mark MacCarley. He joins us from Glendale, California.
What is the operational point of striking a targets like the one that Sam Kiley just showed us?
Clearly, it's a civilian target. There was even a kindergarten nearby.
What do you think the Russians are doing there by doing this?
We've seen this all over the country.
MAJ. GEN. MARK MACCARLEY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I've seen it all over the country and I've seen it in conflicts, in many different parts of the world. It's an effort on the part of the Russians to basically demoralize the Ukrainians.
Just the very thought and the image that you showed of the devastation is something that grinds deeply in anybody's heart, a set of emotions. But I would I want to quickly say is, reflective of what I see as a development in Russian tactics.
And over the last 48-96 hours, we're beginning to see much more of these both cruise missile drones, long range artillery, which allow the Russians to cause this horrific devastation and yet, reduce their body count.
GORANI: The Ukrainians are saying they have killed 14,000 Russian troops.
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GORANI: Does that sound like a realistic number to you?
MACCARLEY: You know, I don't doubt it, although I have certain reservations. We had the benefit, just a few minutes ago, of a conversation with Secretary Austin, with whom I indirectly worked, when I was in uniform.
And he gave a very astute assessment of the Russian capabilities and the fact that Russian forces have, to some extent, been degraded. But when you start talking about the numbers killed, while it is reflected in the grief and sorrow of the widows and parents in Russia, as they see these body bags come back to Russia.
On the other hand, you have Putin. The numbers of dead, at least from my analysis, that's not necessarily persuasive because Putin has a couple of personality factors that play into this role.
And 14,000, to my way of thinking, that body count is a number, albeit significant. It shows that Putin is, quite frankly, ready to shred, that means throw anything he's got into this battle until he prevails. So he has that ability. He is a killer. He is a shredder of forces. And he plays a long game.
GORANI: OK, so what do you think that means going forward then?
Because what you just said is that the battle tactics have changed to long-range artillery strikes so they can reduce the casualties they're taking to their troops on the ground.
What does that mean for the Ukrainian side?
MACCARLEY: I mean, I think as, once again, we reflect on a statement made five, six minutes ago from a battalion commander in Ukraine.
And his statement to us is the thing that he fears, his soldiers fear, is indirect and direct artillery fire, coupled with drones and whatever other bombardments take place, which can significantly impact his forces, as well as cause a tremendous amount of devastation.
So we are kind of faced with a new view of the war, in which the Russians are going to proceed at a distance. This isn't going to be resolved in a short period of time -- and maybe I'm sort of pushing the envelope in this analysis.
But once again, I use that word, longevity. And I think we have to be concerned that Putin doesn't care if this war lasts another month, two months or three months. He is willing to shred forces.
GORANI: So all that being said then, what can the U.S. and its NATO allies do at this stage to help Ukrainians fight back as efficiently as possible against Vladimir Putin's army and their current tactics?
What more can they do?
MACCARLEY: Right, I think you have identified the most important question for NATO and for the United States. And we made significant strides forward. President Zelenskyy's statement and speech to Congress was ennobling and inspirational.
And as a direct result, countries, both we, the United States, and our NATO allies, began to pour additional resources -- ammunition, drones, special application drones, Stinger missiles, which are perhaps one of the most useful tools.
And especially -- and this is what President Zelenskyy brought forward -- is that there's conversation now about perhaps introducing long- range air defense systems or, as most people have picked up, the S- 300.
GORANI: But you need those systems in the country and you need training on them. This isn't something that the Ukrainians have any experience with necessarily.
MACCARLEY: Well, I mean, in terms of the systems that I've identified, the Javelin system, which is a very effective anti tank system, as well as the Stinger, those systems are already in country. We in the United States --
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GORANI: No, those, yes. I'm talking about -- I am talking about the longer-range anti aircraft --
(CROSSTALK) MACCARLEY: -- because that is a Russian tool. It is called an Sa-10, when it was used in Ukraine. The Ukrainians are familiar with the system. They didn't ask for the most advanced Russian or NATO system. We have PAC-3s and the Russian have S-400s. They asked for something they're familiar with. They just want more of it --
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MACCARLEY: -- so that they can maintain freedom of the skies and perhaps reduce the bombardment and devastation that comes from drone attacks and from cruise missiles, just as we were describing a minute ago.
GORANI: Sure. Yes, we have spoken to Ukrainian politicians, who said that, if the West wouldn't implement a no-fly zone, give us the tools to enforce our own. So it would certainly be a useful weapon for them.
Thank you very much, Major General Mark MacCarley, for joining us, really appreciate having you on CNN this morning Ukraine time. It is currently 6:40 am in Lviv, Western Ukraine.
Coming up, my colleague, Paula Newton, has more on Joe Biden's warning to the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, not to help Russia. Stay with us.
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PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The majority of U.S. President Joe Biden's call with his Chinese counterpart was on the war in Ukraine, apparently, in his aim to dissuade, of course, President Xi Jinping from helping Russia in Ukraine.
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NEWTON: And if not, Joe Biden said there would be consequences. Our David Culver picks up the story from there.
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DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. President Joe Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping meeting virtually Friday morning to discuss Russia's war in Ukraine.
According to Chinese state media CCTV, Xi told Biden China and the U.S. have a responsibility to work for peace, saying, quote, "The world is neither peaceful nor tranquil. The Ukraine crisis is something we don't want to see."
These two governments have grown used to combating one another and have traded barbs as Russia's Vladimir Putin has reigned misery on the people of Ukraine. ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: China's already on the wrong side of history when it comes to Ukraine and the aggression being committed by Russia. The fact that it has not stood strongly against it.
ZHAO LIJIAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FOREIGN MINISTRY INFORMATION DEPARTMENT OF CHINA (through translator): The remarks by the U.S. are slandering and smearing against China. Such remarks are not helpful for solving the problem.
CULVER (voice-over): The world's two biggest single economies may have the power to stop the suffering but Biden needs Xi to set parameters for Putin; tricky, since Xi once called Putin his best friend.
The two leaders have met more than 30 times and their countries have grown closer while becoming increasingly isolated from the West. Here the pair are seen happily sampling a traditional Chinese pancake.
A few months later, they remade the dish with vodka and caviar. And just a month ago, China praised its no limits partnership with Russia at the Olympics U.S. officials boycotted.
The U.S. worries that any economic or military support China sends to Russia has the potential to change the balance on the battlefield and could take the sting out of the Western sanctions currently crippling Russia's economy.
The White House said Friday's discussion included the two leaders agreed to maintain open lines of communication. China may see this as an opportunity to burnish its credentials as a major global player capable of stepping in and solving the geopolitical crisis.
YUN SUN, DIRECTOR, CHINA PROGRAM, THE STIMSON CENTER: So neither leaning toward Russia nor leaning toward Ukraine and instead try to present yourself as a neutral third party.
CULVER (voice-over): As China's economy takes hits from a new wave of COVID-19 the worst since Wuhan 2020, economic blowback from the war in Ukraine is the last thing Beijing can afford. American officials have warned that China will pay a price if it does circumvent sanctions to do business with Russia or helps Putin militarily.
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: China has to make a decision for themselves about where they want to stand and how they want the history books to look at them and view their actions. And that is a decision for President Xi and the Chinese to make.
CULVER (voice-over): President Biden right now hoping to get Xi to take on the role of peacemaker.
CULVER: Interesting to compare that with views from both sides: the U.S. side stressing this was mostly about Ukraine, with Biden warning Xi of the consequences should China help Russia.
But state media here in China playing up that Xi pressed Biden on Taiwan, which China considers as part of its sovereignty. Xi warning Biden that if the Taiwan issue is not handled properly, it won't be good for U.S.-China relations -- David Culver, CNN, Shanghai.
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NEWTON: For more perspective on this, we are joined by Gary Locke. He is the former U.S. ambassador to China.
And thank you for weighing in on this. Quite a few developments and yet nothing definitive. We heard hours ago from Secretary Austin, the Defense Secretary, who told CNN that, look, they really don't know what China might do at this point.
What do you think?
GARY LOCKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: I think that China is very much in a predicament. First of all, many of your CNN pictures and video of the tragedy, the massacre, the devastation and the suffering within Ukraine has been broadcasted throughout China.
And China has even reiterated publicly its respect and acknowledgment of the territorial integrity of Ukraine, that it is a separate country. And so I think China would be very, very hard pressed to justifying to its own people any type of military or economic aid to Russia, despite the close relationship that China has with Moscow.
Nonetheless, China has also seen just how swiftly, decisively and extensively the West has imposed sanctions on Russia.
So I'm sure that, in the conversations today between President Biden and President Xi of China, that President Biden reiterated the firm commitment of the United States and the West to impose sanctions, should China intervene on behalf of Russia.
NEWTON: I want to get to the issue of sanctions in a moment and lean on your experience and comments of the secretary as well. I just want everyone to have a look at the comments made on the conflict by China's ambassador to the U.S. And in an editorial on "The Washington Post," he writes "Conflict between Russia and Ukraine does no good for China.
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NEWTON: "Had China known about the imminent crisis, we would have tried our best to prevent it."
How credible is that statement?
And do you think, despite this, that China might try and bail out Russia?
And try and get them away from those sanctions?
LOCKE: Well, first of all, who knows how much China really knew of Putin's intentions?
Perhaps China felt that any type of military action would be swift and that Ukraine and the government would fall quickly. And they may not have been aware of or anticipated just how protracted the conflict is and certainly may not have known about the huge suffering and the toll on the people of Ukraine.
But be that as it may, China could -- or Russia could look to China to provide economic relief by simply purchasing the energy that the rest of Europe and the rest of the world will not be purchasing from Russia.
Russia could also be looking to sell its agricultural output to China to make up for the loss of sales to other countries. But the trade between Russia and China is really one-tenth of the total trade between China and the E.U. and China and the U.S.
So while Russia can easily -- very much depends on trade with China, China cares more about its trade with the rest of the world and the millions and millions, if not hundreds of millions of jobs in China, associated with those exports in the two-way trade between the rest of the world and China.
So I think China is very much concerned, after seeing how swiftly and decisively and extensively those sanctions were against Russia, that I think they're going to have a pause about trying to help Russia, either militarily or economically.
NEWTON: Yes. Quite a nuanced position they're going to have to keep. Former Ambassador Gary Locke, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
LOCKE: My pleasure.
NEWTON: And we'll be right back with more, stay with us.
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NEWTON: We leave you tonight with a powerful image from Ukraine, a sea of empty, empty strollers, a symbol of the more than 100 Ukrainian children, Ukraine's president says, have been killed and the Russia's invasion so far. It's only been three weeks.
Local activists set up the strollers in the Western city of Lviv to drive home the horrific human cost of the war and, of course, to honor its youngest victims. People in the memorial asked everyone to seek their own children when they see the city and those very strollers.
And that does it for us this hour. I am Paula Newton. Please stay with us for our continuing news coverage. We'll be back, right after a quick break.
