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Large Explosions in Kyiv; Russian Push in the South; Biden Holds Call with European Leaders; Russia and Ukraine's War is a Bloody Stalemate; Supreme Court Nominee Hearings Today. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired March 21, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: A shopping mall in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv reduced to rubble after a Russian missile strike overnight. At least eight people were killed in that attack. And the death toll is expected to rise.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you live from New York.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman, reporting from Lviv in western Ukraine.

Civilians under siege in cities across this country. This morning, in the southern city of Mariupol, officials say that Russian bombs are falling every ten minutes as perhaps hundreds of thousands of people remain trapped there. The city nearly decimated following weeks of bombardment. Funerals are not possible, leaving people to dig graves in the streets when it's safe. The latest target there was an art school where up to 400 people may have been sheltering.

Now, intelligence from the United Kingdom indicates that Russia will likely prioritize attempting to encircle the capital city of Kyiv over the coming weeks despite the continued lack of progress by Russian forces outside the capital. The Ukrainian President Zelenskyy tells CNN he wants in-person talks with Vladimir Putin, saying negotiations are the only hope, but he also says, if they fail, it could mean this will be a third world war.

Now, just a couple hours from now, President Biden will hold a call with several European Union leaders to discuss the continued response to Russia.

HARLOW: At that same hour, Supreme Court Justice Nominee Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson will arrive on Capitol Hill as her confirmation hearing begins. Stay with CNN this morning. We will bring you that hearing live, of course.

BERMAN: At least eight people are dead following a Russian air strike on a shopping mall in Kyiv. Now, I have to warn you, the images you're about to see are graphic. The victims scattered on the sidewalk as Ukrainians are left to pull bodies from the rubble of yet another blast site. These images all too common as Russian forces intensify their attacks on civilian targets. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen visited the site of the shelling earlier

today.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This area of Kyiv was hit overnight into Monday. And certainly the munition that was used here seems to be absolutely massive. If we go forward, what we can see over there is a mall and the parking lot of the mall where you can clearly see a gigantic impact crater right in the middle of that parking lot. Also, there's buildings around it, that tall building, absolutely destroyed in that entire mall complex. And the buildings around here, a lot of them were badly damaged as well.

What we're hearing from the city council here in Kyiv, they say that so far they know of eight people who have been killed in this explosion, and several buildings, of course, damaged, including a school and a kindergarten as well.

What's not clear is what exactly the military objective of all of this may have been. There certainly doesn't seem to be any military infrastructure close to here, at least we haven't seen any. And also this appears to be very much a civilian area.

One of the things that we found very remarkable here is we are currently on the 11th floor of a building that is, you know, pretty far away from the explosion. But we found this piece of shrapnel. This piece of shrapnel. We did not find that here on the front of the building. This went through this entire apartment and was then found in the hallway. It went through the front door. And, of course, this would have been extremely deadly for anybody who was in its path. The people who live here told us they bought this place about three months ago. It's a new building. Luckily, they weren't here when the explosion took place.

But if we pan down we can see the destruction that was brought by all of this. Obviously, a lot of glass that was broken, whole windows blown out. And, of course, anybody who would have been laying in this bed in the bedroom would have been in severe danger of massive injuries and possibly death, especially with so much shrapnel flying around.

This is very much part of the current ongoing battle for Kyiv. The U.S. and its allies say the Russians are not making much progress in that battle and certainly increasingly using heavy weaponry that every once in a while certainly does land in civilian areas.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.

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BERMAN: Our thanks to Fred for that.

I want to bring in CNN's Phil Black who is with me in Lviv and has more -- Lviv, I should say, and has more on the Russian push in the southern part of the country. Let's start with Mariupol, what's happening in that city right now.

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That city under siege.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's difficult to imagine the suffering that's taking place there, John, because this bombardment has been going on for weeks. And 300,000 people are there with very little food, water and heating. And it is constant. It is around the clock, we understand.

And so it is in that context that overnight Russia has made an offer, or perhaps an ultimatum, that says it's time to give up the fight. Put down your weapons. We'll let you leave and we'll start sending in aid straight away.

Now, that has been rejected by the Ukrainians very, very swiftly and in very blunt terms. But what that means is that Russia has a choice. It can either continue the bombardment, which seems likely, or it could potentially, at some point, move in and try to take this city street to street, but there's no sign of that yet. So, it seems very likely that the suffering there will continue on a vast scale.

The Ukrainian government says this is not for nothing. The minister of defense has said that what this is doing is slowing Russia's efforts elsewhere in the country, saving lives, tens of thousands of lives the minister says, and protecting other cities, big ones, including Odessa, Dnipro and even Kyiv itself.

But what that means is that the situation there is very much in a stalemate. That siege continues.

BERMAN: I also understand you have some news from Kherson, which is a city -- one of the cities -- perhaps the major city that's under Russian control right now and where there have been protests.

BLACK: Yes, so it's been occupied by Russians for about two weeks, but the population there has been quite willing at times to show that they do not favor that situation. They've been willing to protest. Videos emerging from there today suggest that another protest has taken place and that Russians have used some sort of force to suppress that protest.

So, the videos showed people, some of them wrapped in Ukrainian flags, outside the main city building. There is the sound of gunfire. There are explosions. We don't know if these are lethal weapons that are being detonated or some other sort of crowd control measure. And there is evidence on these videos that shows that people have been injured. So, it's an emerging situation, but it shows that Russia is perhaps using force on the civilian population in Kherson.

BERMAN: That would be an important development, firing on protesters in that city.

Phil Black, thank you so much for that report. Poppy.

Oh, I should say, later this morning, President Biden is expected to speak with European leaders on coordinating their response to Russia's aggression.

HARLOW: Right. And that call comes ahead of Biden's trip to Brussels on Thursday for a NATO summit, of course, on the war in Ukraine.

Let's go to the White House. Our correspondent, Arlette Saenz, joins us from the North Lawn.

Arlette, what can you tell us about this call as the president gets ready to travel to actually meet face-to-face.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy and John, in just two hours, President Biden will be in the Oval Office holding a secure call with the leaders of France, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom, as the U.S. and its allies continue to coordinate their response to Russia's attack on Ukraine.

This phone call comes as President Biden is about to embark on a high- stakes diplomatic endeavor when he traveling to Europe later in the week. On Thursday, he will participate in a host of meetings with allies, including an extraordinary NATO summit on Russia and Ukraine, as well as a G-7 leaders meeting and a summit of the European Council.

Now, these meetings will amount to a western show of unity against Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but it will also give the leaders a chance to craft and finalize a package of new measures to try to punish Russia for their actions, as well as aid Ukraine.

Now, American and European officials have been working behind the scenes about possible measures they could announce at the end of that NATO summit. Some of the measures possibly on the table include a new round of sanctions on Russian oligarchs, as well as new steps to limit the import of Russian energy products.

Now, the White House has also said that Biden will be discussing China's role in this conflict. Just days after President Biden directly warned Chinese President Xi Jinping that there would be consequences if they aid Russia in any way.

Now, after those meetings in Brussels, President Biden will head to Poland where on Saturday he will sit down with the country's president to discuss the U.S. and allies' responses to the humanitarian crisis and human rights crisis that's been created since this attack on Ukraine began. But one place Biden will not be going on his European trip is Ukraine, despite some leaders of the country, including the former president, calling on President Biden to do so. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki has said that there are no plans for the president to visit Ukraine on this trip.

HARLOW: Arlette, at the White House, Arlette Saenz, thanks very, very much. Let's bring in to talk about all of this, retired Army Lieutenant

General Mark Hertling. He is a former commanding general for Europe and the Seventh Army, and, of course, our CNN military analyst.

We are so fortunate to have you especially in a moment like this.

And I'd like to start, if we could, with the human toll because you've U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin saying Russia's advance has stalled, but that does not mean that the death toll has stalled. You have General Petraeus, who told Jake Tapper yesterday, this is a bloody stalemate. So even if, you know, a lot of further forward progress on the ground is not happening from Russia, the death toll keeps going up.

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You, yourself, have led and commanded and lost lives on the battlefield. Can you speak to where you expect the human toll to go from here and how protracted you expect it to be?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's going to get worse on both sides, Poppy. That's not something that I'm happy about saying. It's certainly something that any military analyst who has been in combat will tell you.

But what we're talking about is an initial Russian assault that was termed a battle of annihilation. Now, that doesn't mean what it sounds like. A battle of annihilation is, is surrounding the enemy's forces and causing them to capitulate.

Russia has not been able to do that. Ukraine has always been involved in a battle of attrition. How much can they destroy of the Russian army as they continue to force their way into our country. Now, unfortunately, Russia has also transformed to a battle of attrition, too. But, unfortunately, what they're attriting (ph) is the Ukrainian population. They are going after civilians.

So while Ukraine's forces continued to strike Russia's army very successfully I might add and cause just tens of thousands of casualties, the Russian forces are going after civilians. And that's what's so heart-wrenching and so emotional for people to watch.

So, the toll is going to rise. It already is significant. What I'll tell you from a former commander's perspective, and I lost soldiers under my command in combat, it is devastating to a unit and to the individual soldiers that are seeing this. We're also -- not to get gory, but we're also in a conventional, highly lethal, high intensity fight, which means the soldiers who are being killed on the battlefield are suffering just grievously in terms of wounds and how they come out of this.

So, what you're seeing is not only a physical effect on those who are killed and wounded, but an emotional effect on the units. That's going to strap the will of the Russian forces. And I also think it's certainly going to affect Ukrainian forces as they see their citizens. But I think, actually, as they see their citizens continue to fight

and be brave, it's going to actually increase their will to continue to fight the Russians.

This is not a stalemate. There are wins being achieved by the Ukrainians across the board. They are pushing back forces. But, unfortunately, casualties and death is the result of all this.

BERMAN: General Hertling, what about the losses among the Russian generals, high levels in the Russian military. I think we're up to, what, five now generals and admirals who have been killed. That seems like a very high number. What's the impact?

HERTLING: It is a high number, John. And, first, what I'd like to say, though, is just -- give a little bit of detail about the Russian generals that are being killed. When you hear major general, that's a one-star general. When you see lieutenant general, that's a two-star general. When you see a three-star general, colonel general, that's very different than the American forces.

These individuals are on the battlefield. They are subjecting themselves to being hit with either artillery or direct fire weapons. But they are on the front lines for a variety of reasons. They've lost communications. They came into this with an extremely poor communication plan. They do not have secure coms, the ability to talk through encrypted devices. So their communication is in the open airway, and that can be intercepted by the Ukrainian forces, and it can be targeted.

When you turn a cell phone on, on the battlefield, you're going to draw a whole lot of attention from what are called SIGN (ph) forces, the individuals who look for signals intelligence, the ability for a phone to generate an air wave up to a satellite, that's easily targetable, just like when you lose your iPhone you can find it.

So, these individuals have a lack of communication discipline. They are on the front lines because they're trying to push their Russian soldiers forward. And Ukrainians, quite frankly, are very good at targeting them.

So this will continue because there's no other way around it for the Russians. They've got to get to the front. They've got to communicate someway because as somebody once told me, if you're not communicating on the battlefield, you're just camping. That's what the Russians are doing. They're trying to force communications in an environment that doesn't allow it.

HARLOW: Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, we really appreciate you joining us this morning. Thanks very much.

HERTLING: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, we do have a lot ahead this hour. Of course, coming up soon, the Senate will hold its confirmation hearing for Supreme Court Justice Nominee Ketanji Brown Jackson.

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BERMAN: Plus, we're going to speak live to the mayor of Mykolaiv in Ukraine. This is a key city where there have been fierce battles. People there defiant in the face of Russian bombardment.

And then a moment of inspiration from a seven-year-old girl. She was filmed singing a song from "Frozen" in a Kyiv bomb shelter just a few weeks ago. Yesterday, she sang Ukraine's national anthem in front of a crowd of thousands in Poland.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Singing).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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HARLOW: Welcome back.

Well, a history making nomination moves one step closer to the Supreme Court. Today, this morning, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson will be on Capitol Hill as her confirmation hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee kicks off less than two hours from now. If she is confirmed, she'll be the first black woman to sit on the nation's highest court. She'll also make history in a number of ways.

Joining me now is CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid.

All right, this is about to kick off. This is significant because not only does she bring that diversity to the court, she's a number of firsts to sit on this court if confirmed.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Poppy. Good morning.

In just a few hours, history will be made in this room when Judge Jackson takes her seat over my shoulder here across from lawmakers as they make their arguments for and against her becoming Justice Jackson.

Now, there are no questions today. That part starts tomorrow. But here in these opening statements we can expect Republican lawmakers to lay out their lines of attacks.

As you noted, there are many firsts, including her unique experience as a federal public defender. And, Poppy, while Republicans have really struggled to agree on one line of attack against Jackson, some of them have tried to paint her as being soft on crime. But others, like Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell have instead tried to focus on support she's received from outside groups.

But, look, no matter what they throw at her, Judge Jackson has a lot of experience in this arena. This is actually her fourth confirmation hearing on Capitol Hill. She's previously been confirmed to the U.S. Sentencing Commission, the D.C. District Court and the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. Now, that hearing was just last summer. And after that hearing she was confirmed by a vote of 53-44.

This time around, even the GOP Senate leader says, yes, he expects her to be confirmed, even with few Republican votes.

Now, when could that happen? Well, Democrats are hoping to get her confirmed before they leave for a recess on April 8th.

Poppy.

HARLOW: OK.

Paula Reid, thank you very much for the reporting.

Let me bring in CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor and author of a fantastic book that I just finished, "Just Pursuit," Laura Coates, and University of Texas Law Professor Steve Vladeck.

Thank you both or being here, so much.

And, Laura, let me just begin with you to talk about the diversity she brings to the court outside her race and gender, but her work, her work as a federal public defender, her work as a criminal defense attorney. How important is that in this moment when, as you say, and I think you put it so well, this country is dealing with a legal system still aspiring to really be a justice system?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Poppy, it's, first of all, so great to see you on a day like this. Such a great day for history to be made, particularly with somebody with the credentials of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. I mean the idea of her diversity, obvious for race and gender, but noted the idea of having a former federal public defender, the idea of having someone who was on the sentencing commission, the combination of a great deal of assets and also judicial experience makes her a phenomenal candidate to be a Supreme Court justice.

The idea here, remember, 99 percent of the cases to the Supreme Court, they don't take. They have very selective processes for which ones they want to take. And yet their decisions are so consequential across the board for every single person in the United States. And so that court needs to reflect the people of the United States, including those who are and formerly were defendants in the system as well.

People often forget when they talk about a prosecutor standing up and saying, on behalf of the people of the United States, that even a prosecutor knows that also includes the defendant. And so she'll be a target in terms of her record as a criminal public defender (ph), but the idea that she would ever be soft on crime, I keenly am aware, public defenders are not soft on crime, they are hard on injustice. That's exactly where a Supreme Court justice ought to be.

HARLOW: You know, Steve, to Laura's great point, over the weekend I went back and listened to Judge Jackson's remarks to the graduating class at the University of Pennsylvania Law School last year and she basically pleaded with those soon-to-be lawyers to represent indigents, to represent people accused of crime. And she said, the rule of law to which we are all committed cannot flourish unless the legal system is fair and open to all. And she reminded us of those four words inscribed above the door of the Supreme Court, equal justice under law.

STEVE VLADECK, PROFESSOR OF LAW, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS SCHOOL OF LAW: Yes, I mean, Poppy, I think it's a theme that I think we're going to hear a lot about in the next couple days. And, frankly, I think it's a counterintuitive line of attack against Judge Jackson by Republican senators. I mean it's a long-accepted staple of our legal system that the most important work lawyers can do is defending those who are unpopular.

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Felix Frankfurter (ph) once said, our most important procedural safeguards are made from cases involving not very nice people. That includes the right to counsel, going all the way back to John Adams defending the British soldiers responsible for the Boston massacre.

HARLOW: Sure.

VLADECK: So, I actually think it's a sign of just how little there really is to attack Judge Jackson on that we're hearing this soft-on- crime narrative when I think it's such a just innate part of our legal system to have criminal defense lawyers, especially for those who can't afford them.

And, Poppy, the irony here is that by going after Judge Jackson for being soft on crime, Republicans are only highlighting the diversity she's bringing to the bench, the fact that there has only been in the whole history of the court one prior criminal defense lawyer, Thurgood Marshall, never a public defender. That to me is the case for Judge Jackson, not the case against her.

HARLOW: Yes.

Also, Laura, what makes her so unique is that I think aside from Breyer, she's the only one who served on the sentencing commission. So she -- for four years. So, she brings that. And she brings relatives in law enforcement. And she brings a family member who is, you know, part of, you know, the criminal justice system, who has been incarcerated for 25 years on a drug charge.

So, how critical is that awareness of all sides of the system to bring to the high court?

COATES: Well, I think it's important for people to understand, right, that everyone who's in the justice system as somebody in a position of power, they are coming and should come as their entire selves. You can't walk into a room -- I know I've never had the luxury of walking into a room and shedding different facets of my own identity. You bring that with you to better inform your objectivity because your experience, your life experience, what you have witnessed in your life, what you bring to the table, there's no point in having a seat at that table if you're going to be a mute or robotically apply the law as if we all live in a vacuum. Everything you just laid out, including an endorsement, by the way, by the Fraternal Order of Police, I believe, as well, as a prior to that, shows you that she has a breadth of experience.

HARLOW: Right. Yes.

COATES: And, remember, a Supreme Court justice's job is not to adorn or adawn (ph) a robe and simply sit there and comb through the Constitution. That is part of what they will do. But they will also bring in the knowledge that they have to create and set precedent, respect it and also move forward in the world so that the Supreme Court and its -- and what they rule can be respected.

I think it's all the more incumbent on justices like the potential nominee, Ketanji Brown Jackson, the judge, to bring her whole self. And if what she's bringing is policy background, if what she's bringing is judicial experience, if what she's bring is life experience and an extraordinary legal background, I mean this is somebody who I think we ought to give the due process that she has afforded to her own clients.

HARLOW: Yes, let's not forget, guys, you know, retired Federal Judge Michael Lodic (ph), a luminary in conservative legal circles, says she is eminently qualified and Republicans in particular should vote for her. So we'll begin to watch what they say today and their questions tomorrow.

Steve Vladeck, Laura Coates, thank you both very, very much.

Just ahead, one incredible story of heroics among the devastation in Ukraine. Hear how this mother saved her one-month-old baby.

And the war in Ukraine still taking a toll also on the markets. Take a look here. Moments away from the opening bell. Futures this morning down slightly after stocks rallied at the end of last week despite several challenges, including, of course, the ongoing war, high inflation and Federal Reserve rate hikes.

March known for its volatility even without those circumstances. We'll keep an eye on all of it. Stay with us.

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