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Senate Confirmation Hearing For Judge Jackson Begins; Biden To Travel To Europe For High-Stakes Summit; Chinese Airliner Carrying 132 People Crashes In Southern China. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired March 21, 2022 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:31:22]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Welcome back. The historic Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson have begun. If confirmed, Judge Jackson would be the first black woman to sit on the Supreme Court.

And I believe these are live images right now. They may be taking a lunch break right now. They've been doing opening statements for her confirmation hearings this morning and into the early afternoon.

The nation is bracing for the type of political fireworks that have seemed to become standard for these proceedings. And the questions will begin tomorrow.

The key sticking point emerging at this point is Jackson's past rulings on crime. The top Democrat, top Republican on the Judiciary Committee dove right into this issue from the start today.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Despite your record, we have heard claims that you are, quote, "soft on crime." These baseless charges are unfair. I'm confident the American people will see through these attacks and any other last-minute attempts to derail your confirmation.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): There have been some accusations that we cherry-picked some of Judge Jackson's criminal cases. Well, don't worry, we're going to talk about other cases as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Let's discuss this landmark moment with CNN's Supreme Court reporter, Ariane De Vogue, and Georgetown University law professor and former Supreme Court clerk, Sheryll Cashin.

Thank you both for being with us.

Ariane, you first. You've been watching the hearings all morning and this afternoon. What are the takeaways so far today? What stands out to you?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: You're absolutely right. The Democrats, so far, are going on about her qualifications. She sits on the highest federal appeals court across the country. She's been to Harvard twice. She's a former clerk to Justice Breyer whose seat she wants to take.

More importantly, they're pressing the fact this is her fourth time here and she has had Republican support.

And as you said, the Republicans, they are looking at a different strategy. They are saying that she's been soft on crime.

And it's a two-pronged strategy. They've spent some time talking about her record.

But also, a couple of times, they've stepped out to use these hearings to go after President Biden himself because they know that these hearings are coming with the new -- with the elections down the road. And they want to use these hear, hearings for that.

It's going to be a hard road for the Republicans to make this case. She knew these lines of questions are coming. She's had them before.

And actually, it could backfire because she has a lot of experience when it comes to the criminal justice system.

For instance, you heard Cruz, Senator Cruz, Senator Cornyn talking about the fact that she'd been a public defender. And she -- and in the past, she said, yes, she has been, and that it was an important part of her history to teach her more about the criminal justice system, to make her a better judge.

We've heard others talk about the fact that when she was on a sentencing commission, the Federal Sentencing Commission, she worked to slash drug sentences and -- for some offenders. And she did, but she was working with a bipartisan commission, and they were often unanimous.

And we'll also hear down the road, although they haven't mentioned it yet, her own personal story.

She's like a lot of Americans. Her family has straddled the criminal justice system. She had one uncle who got sentenced to life in prison for a drug crime.

But at the White House, she made it clear that she comes from a family of law enforcement. We've heard a couple of the Democrats talk about that, too. And we'll hear more about this tomorrow.

So today we've gotten this brief taste of the general direction that the Republicans are going in. We'll hear an opening statement. But a lot of the meat will come down tomorrow during the hearings.

CABRERA: All right.

And to you, Professor. Just a quick thought on today's hearings and what you will be listening for when these Senators question Judge Jackson tomorrow.

[13:35:08]

SHERYLL CASHIN, LAW PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY & FORMER SUPREME COURT CLERK: Well, I want us to take a breath and celebrate what this nomination means, first of all. You know, that as several of the Democratic Senators did.

A cause for celebration. The long march of a black woman Supreme Court justice, the fact that we're in a moment where the most-qualified candidate nominated to the court in decades just happens to be a black woman. And that fact is being normalized and celebrated.

But unfortunately, what we saw today is a battle that's become almost normal now, a toxic political battle in which the lines of attack against her.

They can't attack her qualifications. They're preeminent. So they have this line about dark money and a guilt by association with liberal groups that are doing what just groups on the right do, right? They lobby for the kind of judges they want.

CABRERA: Right.

CASHIN: So they associate that with dark money when, in fact, as one of the Senators pointed out, both sides do it.

What is dark money? Is it groups that don't have to disclose who their donors are, right?

But what we have here, in this hearing, is a debate about political -- about judicial philosophy. You know, the right likes Textualists and Originalists. The left likes Living Constitutionalists.

Justice Breyer was a Living Constitutionalist. Ketanji Brown Jackson is in the mainstream. There's legitimate debate about different approaches.

But the truth of the matter is judges on the Supreme Court, justices on the Supreme Court don't adhere to some strict ideology in the modes they use. You can find liberals using Textualism. You can find conservatives on occasion doing things that smack of Living Constitutionalism.

CABRERA: OK.

CASHIN: And my hope is that we can turn the heat down as we watch these hearings and see more fairness to her in recognition of her extreme qualifications.

CABRERA: Ariane, can I circle back to this whole idea that she's soft on crime, as Republicans have tried to frame her? And then there was this specific attack from GOP Senator Josh Hawley, which is misleading. He accused her of letting child porn offenders off the hook.

I do want you to address that claim for our viewers. What was that even based on?

DE VOGUE: Well, you saw him just now when his opening statement, in a very kind of gentle way, he said, look, I've been frank. I told her what I'm going to ask her about.

He's looking at a series of cases that she decided as a judge on these child porn offenders. And he is claiming that, in fact, she departed from the regular sentencing guidelines and gave them perhaps less- strict sentences there.

But CNN has reviewed the record there. And, in fact, if you look at it, the actual sentencing guidelines in general have been misguided for a while now. And judges in general have seen that they need to be updated.

And we have learned at CNN that, in fact, most of her sentences there were within the mainstream. So that's what we're likely to have her say tomorrow.

And some Democrats, and particularly the White House, they thought that Hawley, when he sent those tweets out the other night, was being extremely misleading and not sort of showing the entire record.

Today, he said, look, I wanted to send warning that this is the areas that I'm interested in. I wanted the judge to have time to think about it. And that's what I'm going to pursue.

So it is one of those issues where when he's actually now kind of giving a signal of where he's going. We're not going to really learn more about it until tomorrow and when we see her responses.

CABRERA: I want to note that she's been here before. In fact, she's had to have Senate confirmation for three other roles.

The most recent, of course, the role she holds right now in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. And that was just last June in which she was confirmed on a 53-44 vote with the exact same Senate.

Ariane De Vogue and Sheryll Cashin, thanks so much for helping us understand what to watch as these hearings continue.

[13:40:32]

Up next, President Biden heads to Europe for a critical summit and show of unity. What can be accomplished? And can it change the trajectory of the war in Ukraine? That's next.

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CABRERA: President Biden just wrapping up an urgent meeting today with European allies as they talk next steps in their response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

This comes ahead of the high-stakes trip to Brussels for the NATO summit Thursday and before he heads to Poland on Friday.

Kim Dozier is with us now. She's a CNN global affairs analyst.

First, Kim, what does President Biden need to accomplish on this trip?

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: The most important thing that he's doing is having face-to-face conversations with NATO and European leaders where they can have the real blunt discussions on what do we do if Putin's ambitions are to go beyond Ukraine, even though he's mired there.

[13:45:12]

What do we do if he has designs on NATO countries? And to discuss their concerns about Putin's stability. And their concerns that he might start attacking some of those weapons shipments going into Ukraine. And even his threats to use tactical nuclear weapons.

These are the kind of things that you can talk about face-to-face. You just don't get the same level of honesty sometimes over the phone.

CABRERA: I guess the question then is, what can they do about it once they figure out what, you know, what the facts are?

Are the U.S. and its allies nearing a saturation point where they don't have many more sanctions or other actions they can do to punish Russia? What else does the U.S. have in its arsenal?

DOZIER: You're right. This is a chance to look into their kit bag and say, how else can we make Russia feel pain and cease and desist?

One option is that the European leaders and the U.S. could coordinate on their trade with China. They are the two -- two of the largest trading partners of Beijing. And that gives them some amount of political power.

Beijing may be the only country in the world with influence that can convince Putin to possibly take a negotiated settlement that is less than Putin is seeking.

Right now, it seems they want Crimea, the Donbass and a land bridge to connect the two. And they've been back and forth on demanding Zelenskyy's government step down.

CABRERA: Given all of the military support the U.S. and NATO allies have given Ukraine, you could argue the U.S. is already in a proxy war in Ukraine. In fact, Leon Panetta argued just that last week.

What does that mean for U.S. and Russia relations?

DOZIER: Absolutely. They have been in a proxy war in a couple of different countries on the planet. But it's only become more public for all of us now with the war in Ukraine. It means that they are getting closer and closer to a dangerous

confrontation, possibly in cyberspace. Each nation has left cyber- bombs in various parts of its infrastructure.

But the U.S. has been reluctant to let any of those explode, so to speak, and hit Russian critical infrastructure because they know Russians could do the same to us.

And U.S. utilities in large cities might be prepared, but it's the small cities and towns where they could take the water or electricity down and bring the war in Ukraine to our shores.

CABRERA: Russia's foreign minister today saying that relationship is on the verge of rupture, the U.S./Russia relations. That's, of course, in the background of what's happening on the ground in Ukraine.

Kim Dozier, thank you very much for your analysis.

Now to a remarkable moment of courage. This is Olga and her 1-month- old daughter. She and her husband, Dmytro (ph), were feeding their baby at their home in Kyiv when their building was shelled.

Olga covered her young daughter with her body as debris flew, likely saving her child's life.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): I was wounded in the head and blood started flowing. And it all flowed on the baby. And I couldn't understand. I thought it was her blood.

Dmytro (ph) was taking the baby away. I'm screaming that she's covered all in glass, all in blood. He tells me, Olga, it's your blood, it's not hers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Her baby was completely unharmed. You can see Olga sustained several wounds. We're told 25 wounds. This woman's incredible bravery saving one of the youngest victims of Putin's war.

[13:48:48]

We'll be right back.

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[13:53:15]

CABRERA: An investigation is underway after a commercial plane crashed in the mountains of southern China. And 132 people were on board. China Eastern Airlines has now grounded all of its Boeing 737-800 planes, the type of aircraft that crashed.

And CNN's Will Ripley is following this developing story. Will, flight-tracking data, we've learned, shows this plane plunged

more than 2,500 feet in less than two minutes before crashing. What else are you learning?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Horrific, Ana. It would have been terrifying for the people on board that plane.

I spoke with David Souci a short time ago, our aviation expert, who said one of the facts investigators are looking at right now is if one of the engines of the dual-engine jetliner may have gone out and the pilots turn in the wrong direction.

And it could send the plane straight down at about 400 miles an hour into the side of the mountain.

That would be consistent with what witnesses have described that they say there was no smoke plume coming from the aircraft. They saw it basically shooting vertically right towards the ground.

It was only after it made impact with the mountain that there was a deafening explosion that could be heard with large plumes of smoke and flames visible as well.

A situation that David Souci told me would be un-survivable for everybody on board.

So for the family members now gathered 12 hours away desperate for information, at this point, they're no longer being told that there might be a chance of survivors.

But they're wondering if they'll be able to collect remains from a crash this violent, a crash that could have spilled wreckage across this densely forested mountainous area.

Obviously, this is all very preliminary. They're going to be doing a lot of investigation.

The fact that is it is a Boeing 737-800, not the MAX, which had its own series of accidents but still a Boeing aircraft and a 737.

[13:55:02]

In China, with the Chinese president taking the lead on this investigation, putting out a statement in a matter of hours, which very unusual to have a statement from the Chinese president looking into this.

This is certainly bound to not only be a very difficult and pain- staking flight investigation, but also adding to an already complicated relationship between the United States and China.

So a lot of strands to this crash, Ana, beyond just the tragedy that now the families of 132 people are having to face, this reality that this horrific crash has likely taken all of their lives.

CABRERA: The big question, how? How did it happen or why? Thank you very much, Will Ripley.

That does it for us today. Thank you for being with us.

The news continues after a quick break.

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