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More Than 7,200 People Evacuated from Mariupol Sunday; President Zelenskyy Wants to Talk with Putin; Ukraine Rejects Russia's Demand to Surrender Mariupol; Children's Laser Tag Arcade Becomes Wartime Shelter; NATO Leaders Will Meet to Discuss Conflict this Week; A Least One Killed in Kyiv Attack; War Entering 4th Week. Aired 4- 4:30a ET

Aired March 21, 2022 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church at CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. We're following breaking news on the war in Ukraine just ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We have to use any format, any chance in order to have a possibility of negotiating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know if I wake up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have paid a dear price already, so we are going to give up our fundamental sovereignty and independence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The campaign has stalled. He's not been able to achieved the goals that he wants to achieve as rapidly as he wants to achieve them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHURCH: It's just after 10:00 in the morning in Ukraine where new scenes of total devastation are emerging after a Russian strike. These pictures are coming to us from Kyiv. Several explosions hit the capital overnight. At least one person was killed. And this is believed to be the aftermath of a Russian attack that took aim at a shopping center.

Meantime, Ukrainian officials are flatly rejecting Russia's demands to surrender the besieged city of Mariupol. The deadline for Moscow ended several hours ago. Russian forces have been unleashing brutal attacks on Mariupol with no concern for innocent civilians as recent strikes at least hit two locations used as shelters.

On Sunday, 7,200 civilians were evacuated through four humanitarian corridors. Still, many more remain trapped inside the city. And as the fighting around Mariupol rages, we are learning a senior Russian naval officer is now among those killed.

Meanwhile, Moscow's unprovoked attack on Ukraine will be the focus of a NATO summit this week. U.S. President Joe Biden will be there and we've learned he will also travel to Warsaw, Poland, and meet with the country's president.

Ukraine's president spoke with CNN earlier and said he is ready for talks of his own with Vladimir Putin. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKYY (through translator): I am ready for negotiations with him. I was ready over the last two years. And I think that, I think that without negotiations we cannot end this war. I think that other people who think that this dialogue is shallow and that it is not going to resolve anything, they just don't understand that this is very valuable. If there is just 1 percent chance for us to stop this war, I think that we need to take this chance. We need to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And CNN has correspondents positioned in key locations. We will have reports this hour from Ivan Watson in Dnipro, Ukraine. Natasha Bertrand in Brussels, Belgium, Nada Bashir in London, Steven Jiang in Beijing and Phil Black in Lviv, Ukraine. So, let's begin with Phil in Lviv. Good to see you, Phil. We just showed those new pictures that have been coming into us of the total devastation left behind after those multiple explosions in the capital Kyiv. What more are you learning about that?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So that strike late last night, Rosemary, impacted a shopping center. There was a fire. At least one person was killed. We don't know if that was the intended target, but it fits the broader analysis from Western governments which says Kyiv remains the primary military target for Russia.

You mentioned Mariupol as well, that is clearly a military target for Russia. Blockaded and bombarded by Russian forces for several weeks now. Overnight, yes, they were given a proposal, others would say in ultimatum, to give up the city, to let Russian forces in. The proposal was eight pages long. And the shorter version essentially says lay down your weapons, stop fighting. Everyone who does that can let out and we'll let the aid in. And they had until 4:00 a.m. this morning in order to reply.

Ukraine didn't need that long. It was rejected pretty much straight away. The city council said we don't need to wait until morning here is your answer followed by a colorful expletive. The deputy Prime Minister said don't write eight-page letters, just open humanitarian corridors.

But with that dismissed it seems Russian forces still have the same two options before them they want to take this city, which they certainly appear to do. That is to move in to try and take it by force.

[04:05:00]

That's street fighting. That's going to be difficult and costly. Or maintain the siege. Continue to apply this horrendous pressure and suffering upon the civilian population.

We got a sense over the weekend of what that means with yet another big building being used to shelter hundreds of people, around 400, we believe, being hit and destroyed. In this case it was an art school with primarily we're told women, children, the elderly inside. We don't know the effect. We don't know if anyone survived because there is this increasing picture emerging from within Mariupol complete civil collapse. The authorities there just don't have the capacity to help anyone, to mount any sort of rescue operation to recover bodies. It's too dangerous. They don't have the resources.

So, broadly, the situation in Mariupol remains the same. Hundreds of thousands of people sheltering wherever they can without heat, very little food, very little water, under daily bombardment and that is the situation that will set to continue -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes. Still talking about the city of Mariupol because it is critical, isn't it, to Russia's efforts to create this land bridge that being the aim of President Putin at this juncture. So, this surrender, this rejection now by the Ukrainians of this demand from Russia to surrender the city of Mariupol, what could that mean going forward for those people there who are essentially standing in the way of Putin's aims here?

BLACK: Well, it gives an insight into the Russian thinking in terms of, yes, how badly they want it. But we could already get a sense of that from the bombardment. From the daily suffering that was raining down on the people there, the indiscriminate fire, the willingness and the acceptance of huge civilian suffering. That shows how badly they want it.

But in making this ultimatum, it's classic siege warfare. Make life so uncomfortable and horrendous for everyone in the city in the hope that they then give it up and it can be taken relatively easily without any great harm coming to the invading force. That's clearly the model that's being followed. It has been rejected. And so, as I say, it seems very likely to think that pressure, that suffering will continue to be applied by the Russian side in their hope that, yes, the city will eventually fall far more easily than should they have to go in there and try to take that city street by street, clearing it of defenders and then holding it after that -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: And Phil, we know, too, and we just heard from Ukraine's President Zelenskyy that he is ready to negotiate with Russia's President Putin but Putin is not ready, is he?

BLACK: There are conflicting reports about where negotiations are at. Often hear comments that say there is reason to hope, that there is some constructive progress. But the reality is that at the moment it seems very difficult to see how a deal can be struck in the near future that would be acceptable to Vladimir Putin in the sense of justifying this huge military endeavor. And also at the same time, acceptable to not just President Zelenskyy but the Ukrainian people more broadly. It's unclear where there can possibly be a compromise that can achieve all of that.

Because on the one hand, issues like not joining NATO, Ukraine adopting some form of neutrality in the future, that can be discussed. But there are much more difficult issues like -- and these are issues that Russia will absolutely demand. Recognition that the Crimea Peninsula -- annexed by Russia in 2014 -- is now part of Russia. And acceptance of the independence of those break away would be republics in the east of the country.

These are things that are not acceptable to the Ukrainian people. Maintaining Ukraine's territorial integrity is a fundamental goal of not just the government but the people themselves, even as they are being invaded. So, it is very difficult how that could then be agreed upon and then sold to the Ukrainian people. So, what that means is that for the moment, proceeding from here seems very likely this bloody war of attrition will continue.

CHURCH: Sadly so. Phil Black joining us live from Lviv, appreciate that. Well, what once was an arcade where children played in pretend gunfights has now become a place for Ukrainians to escape from real ones. Many of them are fleeing the port city of Mariupol, which has been under Russian siege, as we heard, for weeks now. Ivan Watson reports from Dnipro.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Normally this is an arcade, a place where children come and play laser tag. Instead, now that there's this awful war in Ukraine, people have been using this as an improvised shelter. The owners have opened up their doors to ordinary Ukrainians, civilians who for the most part have been fleeing the port city of Mariupol which has been under Russian siege for weeks now.

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And we have been talking to some of these displaced Ukrainians who have described horrific conditions where they are hiding in basements, where there is no electricity, no running water, no heat, constant bombardment from war planes, from artillery rockets and even in our now reports from Russian ships in the Black Sea.

What the owners here have done is they have provided a space for families that have endured the unspeakable to come here and get several days of rest and relative quiet. Which is really a blessing. And we can see the children have really responded positively in this space that was quite honestly built for them in the first place.

The attacks and the horrors in Mariupol, though, for the parents, though, it's really traumatizing. We have been talking to people who have left behind parents and grandparents who are still under Russian bombardment, people who are now trying to figure out where to take their families left if there are other safe places in this country. Before Russia invaded Ukraine, Mariupol had a population of more than 400,000 people.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Dnipro, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: NATO allies are meeting in Brussels this week in what's being called an extraordinary summit, to address the Russian invasion. The leaders are expected to discuss on going deterrents and defense efforts in response to Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine.

And for more on this, we want to bring in CNN's Natasha Bertrand. She joins us live from Brussels. Good to see you, Natasha. So, what can we expect to come out of this extraordinary NATO meeting set for later this week where U.S. President Biden will also attend? How far might they go in helping Ukraine, particularly with pressure coming from President Zelenskyy for a no-fly zone over Ukraine skies?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, that's really an open question still, Rosemary. Obviously, the NATO member countries have been supplying a lot of weaponry to Ukraine. They have continued to do so even amidst those threats by Russia that those shipments could be a legitimate target for Russian forces. And what we see clear unanimity on in terms of the NATO alliance, is this idea that there will not be a no-fly zone imposed over Ukrainian skies despite what President Zelenskyy has been calling for.

Now, of course, they are considering sending more anti-air systems to Ukraine so that Ukraine can itself try to close those skies because the air space there is still contested and therefore, they still have a chance to kind of retake control if they do have those weapons.

But ultimately this summit later this week is going to be about protecting NATO. It's going to be about protecting Europe. That is what the NATO officials we have spoken to have attempted to drive home here. That this is a very, very dangerous moment for not only Ukraine, obviously, but also for the NATO alliance, also for Europe. Because as we saw just last week, Russian attacks are going further and further west. We saw just last week missile strikes about ten miles from Poland's border. Very close to that NATO territory and those eastern flanked countries are getting very, very nervous about the potential this could accidentally spill over into their territory.

And so, what we expect to see is obviously more discussion about the kinds of support that can be provided both in terms of weaponry and humanitarian aid to Ukraine but also about the kind of support the NATO alliance can provide to those countries on the eastern flank who are feeling very threatened right now by Russia's advances.

Of course, we saw that NATO sent about -- thousands of more troops to those NATO eastern flanked countries. It has sent air defense systems to those countries. They are shoring them up in any way they can. Especially after a trio of drone incidents last week, seeing drones kind of enter into NATO territory and enter into that air space without being caught by the alliance. So obviously, there's a lot of risk here that this could spill over into NATO territory, that it could spill over into Europe. And that is going to be the main topic of discussion when President Biden meets with those leaders later this week -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Very important, too. Natasha Bertrand joining us live from Brussels. Many thanks.

Well, the tide of refugees fleeing Ukraine is worrying Central European countries. Officials are becoming concerned as more than 3.3 million displaced Ukrainians flee the violence in their country. Poland has taken in the bulk of the refugees with more than 2 million crossing to safety since the war began. Meantime, some 800 evacuees arrived in the city near the Ukrainian capital Kyiv on Sunday, escaping the fighting in their hometowns.

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Here is how one of them described her escape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUDA MILLAR (PH): KYIV RESIDENT (through translator): They are shooting with everything they can. So, we just took children and drove away. Where do we go? We don't know. Just away from that hell. My name is Luda Millar (ph) and this is Anna and those two are my sons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And it you would like to help the people in Ukraine who are in need of shelter, food and water, you can go to CNN.com/impact and you'll find several ways that you can help.

Still to come, despite calls for diplomacy in Ukraine, China continues its business relationship with Russia. Why this may not change any time soon. We're live in Beijing with the details. That's next.

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CHURCH: Welcome back to our coverage of Russia's war on Ukraine. Joining me now from Kyiv are Peter Zalmayev, director of the Eurasia Democracy Initiative. And Taras Berezovets, a Ukrainian political scientist and founder of the Free Crimea Project. Thank you to you both for being with us.

TARAS BEREZOVETS, UKRAINIAN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.

PETER ZALMAYEV, DIRECTOR, EURASIA DEMOCRACY INITIATIVE: Thank you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Now course, it is important to mention that before this war on Ukraine began, you were both analysts, but now you're actually fighting against this Russian invasion. An Peter, I want to go to you first. What is the situation on the ground? And where do you see this war going in the next two critical and perhaps decisive weeks?

ZALMAYEV: Yes, that's what everyone says. The next ten days will be decisive. And so far, I mean, we're standing the middle of Kyiv in the Maidan Square. There's a little bit of a lull, but if you do not, you know, into account regular sonic booms and trace of fires. Just yesterday I was walking in the city and there were like air defense missiles shooting up in the sky with a trace of fires. As I was going to bed around 11:00 p.m., my bed shook from an explosion. Mostly rockets being shot from the sky.

We -- Taras and I had a chance to visit with the territorial defense leadership here in Kyiv with the deputy mayor of Kyiv. Everyone is digging in for the long haul. It seems like the enemy just lacks sufficient force to take Kyiv, but that does not mean that they will not try. And there's also an option they may try to lay a siege to the city, to literally starve it of enough water, of power, of everything. But folks here know they have nowhere else to go. They have nowhere to retreat, so they're staying put.

CHURCH: Yes, and we have actually been showing our viewers footage that came in. We had some live pictures, in fact, of the destruction in Kyiv of a strike by the Russians at shopping center.

Taras, I want to go to you next. Because Russia's war has been faltering and not going according to plan with the Ukrainians offering an incredibility level of resistance. And this, of course, frustrated President Putin. And so, he has turned to these heavy bombardments, hitting civilians and civilian targets from afar. What more are you learning about the level of desperation being felt right now across the country for civilians trying to deal with this?

BEREZOVETS: Yes, Rosemary, thank you to that. If Vladimir Putin everything's is not going according to the plan. According to his plans and what we heard from the Ukrainian leaders intelligence the central street in Kyiv was supposed to be a place for military parade of Russians with their troops, with their tanks and the plan was to capture Kyiv within 72 hours. They even brought their special military unit of parade uniforms and they were supposed that Ukrainians would meet them with flowers, throwing on their tanks whatsoever. But nothing was going according to the plan.

We're standing just probably 300 meters from presidential administration where President Zelenskyy is sitting. And this is the most secure area here in Kyiv with a lot of military, a lot of vehicles, things just around us. Everything seems to be absolutely secure.

But you're absolutely right. With no chances to defeat Ukrainian military on the battlefield, Russians using the most outrageous warfare against civilians. And last night I saw myself here in my Kyiv flat, a Russian missile has been hit by Ukrainian and the missile system we've just places these missile, which hit one of the shopping malls not far from here actually. Supposed to be 3.5 miles from this place.

But still, we see now signals of panic and people walking just around drinking coffee, going to restaurants. And it seems to be like peaceful, Ukrainian capital like it used to be before. But people are here in Kyiv in Ukraine. They want to fight for their freedom. They want to fight for their country. And we will do that. And Vladimir Putin (INAUDIBLE).

CHURCH: Yes. We have to say, the Ukrainian people have been extraordinary with their pushback here. Peter, Ukraine has rejected Russia's demand to surrender Mariupol in the south. But president Zelenskyy said he is ready for negotiations with Putin to end this war, various options for compromise, of course, have already being discussed. But how delicate will this likely be for Zelenskyy in terms of what he will and won't accept in any possible peace negotiation and what the Ukrainian people will or won't accept.

ZALMAYEV: You hit the nail on the head with this question, Rosemary. Zelenskyy knows Putin is more important.

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Putin knows that Zelenskyy is between a rock and hard place. On the one hand, Ukrainians have shown a convincing sort of a ability and desire to resist their invader. And it seems that they convinced Putin there's no outright military victory here. On the other hand, Putin knows that Zelenskyy can only promise so far and deliver on so much. As far as signing off on Crimea's annexation or on Donbas, turning it over to the Russians. Those are obvious nonstarters.

BEREZOVETS: This is our life.

ZALMAYEV: Thank you. This is our warriors. They bring people together. Zelenskyy cannot give away territory. Zelenskyy cannot promise to demilitarize. And obviously Ukraine cannot promise to de-Nazi. We have a Jewish president, for crying out loud, OK. And Putin knows that he's trying to back Zelenskyy into a corner. The Ukrainians have handled diplomacy as well as they have handled the military part. They have said that, yes, we can talk about a certain neutrality status. We can probably discuss NATO membership. But as far as everything else, Vladimir Putin knows that what he's really offering Ukrainian is capitulation to other means. And Ukrainians will not fall for it, not after all this blood that has been shed, all this military men we have lost and the civilians we have lost. Not after that we will not be brought to our knees.

CHURCH: Unfortunate we are out of time but an absolute pleasure to talk to you both. Peter Zalmayev and Taras Berezovets. Thank you so much for joining us. We do appreciate it.

ZALMAYEV: Thank you, Rosemary.

BEREZOVETS: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, still to come, as we approach a full month of war in Ukraine, how the country's president is explaining the violence to his two young children. We're back with that in just a moment.

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