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Final Day Of Questioning For Ketanji Brown Jackson; American Jewish Committee Launches Fund To Help Ukrainian Refugees; Ukrainian Band Turns Punk Rock Classic Into Anti-Russia Anthem. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 23, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:32:57]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, right now Supreme Court Nominee Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is facing a second round of questions from the Senate Judiciary Committee. Jackson, who could soon become the first black woman ever appointed to the Supreme Court has already fielded many questions, some of them on free speech, on the size of the Supreme Court. Also on her family's dedication to the rule of law the questions for about critical race theory, questions about how she defines a woman. There was a lot off topic that she had to field yesterday as well as some important on topic questions from senators.

Joining me now to discuss is Irin Carmon, Senior Correspondent for New York Magazine, also the author of the fabulous book, the Notorious RBG. Thank you very much, Irin, for being here. And I loved your piece, you recently wrote in New York Mag about, you know, looking at her in this also diverse category of the first ever public defender who would sit on this court, and you talk about her and her resume that would make her one of the most qualified people ever to join the High Court. But you also say and this is what was striking to me that her nomination would be "politically unthinkable" just a few years ago. Why and what changed?

IRIN CARMON, CO-AUTHOR, " NOTORIOUS RBG ": Well, Poppy, I think we saw the reason that it would be politically challenging and many of the questions yesterday. So you had, for example, Tom Cotton, John Cornyn and others, bringing up some of her criminal defense work as a way to portray Ketanji Brown Jackson as soft on crab.

Now, some of it was at her -- at the sentencing level that she was a district court judge, where as a trial court judge, you really have to get into the nitty-gritty of the facts and your ruling on all kinds of really difficult cases. But particularly when it came to her writing briefs on behalf of people detained at Guantanamo at a time where the law was really unsettled as to what constitutional rules applied, as she was accused of calling Bush and Rumsfeld war criminals because of again legal claims that were made in these briefs.

[10:35:05] She was implicitly and explicitly accused of being soft on crime. Something that many people saw as a racial dog whistle. So although it does seem like if the Democrats can hang together, maybe get one or two Republican votes, she will be confirmed.

The process is really grueling. And in part being a public defender, although everybody likes to say that they support the constitutional right to counsel that everybody deserves a fair defense, they then like to also tar her with or blame her for actions taken by clients that she may not have chosen.

HARLOW: You wouldn't choose your clients as a public defender. And I think it's interesting you note in your piece Gideon versus Wainwright, which was a unanimous decision from the High Court that everyone deserves this representation.

There was something I wanted to ask you about. I know she won't change the balance of the court, six, three. But I wonder if you agree with Linda Greenhouse of The New York Times who wrote earlier this month, that maybe she won't change the court, but she very well may change the conversation. And that's a start. And she talks about how former Justice Thurgood Marshall, in her opinion was able to influence former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor during their time on the bench together. And I wonder if you think perhaps over time, Justice Jackson might do the same?

CARMON: Sure, certainly, it's something we can see in history. I mean, Justice O'Connor herself crossed the aisle several times on cases related to gender discrimination. Often, you know, even though she and Justice Ginsburg didn't agree on a lot, they did manage to find common ground when it came to cases that concerned women's rights.

And Justice Ginsburg actually told me in an interview once that she managed to convince her colleagues to change their minds in a Fourth Amendment case that involve the search of a teenage girl by helping them understand just how invasive it would be to be searched that way as a teenage girl.

It certainly does matter. And every day, every single term, the court is dealing in questions of both racial and gender discrimination, justice, what are the proper remedies to those issues. And so to have somebody in the room for whom these are not theoretical, particularly yes, we're expecting this case, this abortion decision that could be monumental could overturn Roe v. Wade, it won't be the last time that the court considers abortion. And oftentimes these anti-abortion restrictions are made in the name of supposedly protecting black women or black babies. And so to have somebody being rhetorically addressed, who can then in the room, say, you know, here's the facts, here's some lived experience, in addition to their deep legal credentials, I do think makes a difference.

HARLOW: It's a really important point. Irin Carmon, it's great to have you. Sorry to have to be brief this morning, but we'll have you back very soon. Thanks again.

CARMON: Thanks, Poppy. HARLOW: Up next, the growing need for humanitarian aid in Ukraine as well as surrounding countries that have taken in millions of refugees, the dire situation is more people flee their homes.

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[10:42:41]

HARLOW: Welcome back. President Biden will travel to Poland on Friday where he will meet with the President of Poland, President Duda. The stop is intended to highlight the huge refugee crisis that has resulted from Russia's invasion as well as reassure allies on NATO's eastern edge. Right now more than half of the three and a half million refugees that have fled Ukraine and migrated to Poland, the number over 2 million in Poland. Now, our Melissa Bell is near the Polish- Ukrainian border. Melissa.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, here at the border with Ukraine, it is Ukrainian refugees arriving day and night and seeking refuge turned on 2.1 million people so far have crossed over that border, in search of refuge with ordinary people, NGOs stepping into the breach in those early days, but now more calls for a greater, more coordinated response on the part of the European Union, with Amnesty International warning that if that doesn't happen, then these fragile populations of refugees and we're talking, Poppy, about women and children in the most part will be in danger.

Now, that will very much be at the heart of discussions when President Joe Biden arrives in Europe and meets with European, NATO and G7 partners in Brussels on Thursday. They will also be at the heart of his discussions with the Polish President when they meet in Warsaw here in Poland on Friday. How best to help those refugees and how to put an end to what's been going on across the border in Ukraine. Poppy.

HARLOW: Melissa Bell reporting for us from Poland. Melissa, thank you very much.

Speaking of Warsaw, Poland, organizations from around the world have traveled to Ukraine and to neighboring countries to help with humanitarian efforts. One of the groups there right over the border in Poland helping a lot with this crisis is the American Jewish Committee. They've also launched an emergency fund to provide relief to Ukrainian refugees. I'm happy to have joining me this morning, Sebastian Rejak, he is director at the American Jewish community Central Europe Office.

Sebastian, thank you very much. And Melissa was just reporting about Warsaw. That's where you joined us from this morning, 2 million plus refugees now from Ukraine in Poland. Can you describe the situation where you are in the most need at this moment?

SEBASTIAN REJAK, DIRECTOR, AMERICAN JEWISH COMMUNITY CENTRAL EUROPE OFFICE: Good morning, Poppy. Thank you for having me. The situation is we're having a steady flow of refugees brought by people crossing the border seven or eight border crossings. [10:45:10]

And we actually, the AJC team visited two border crossings last week and three refugee reception centers. So basically what you see is these human faces. There is nothing spectacular about that. You see faces of people who need basic health. And the first thing they get is a warm meal. And you can get approached by somebody asking you if you could give them the lift Warsaw or some other city where they may have families, and many of them do have families in Poland.

So the first reaction is these very basic things. And of course, we went there also with supplies with non-perishable foodstuffs and hygiene of products. We're coming continuing that there is a crisis management team, coordinated by Jewish organizations in Warsaw, AJC, as you have rightly mentioned, has established this stand with Ukraine fund and so far. We've raised 1.7 million U.S. dollars.

HARLOW: Wow. You know, it was remarkable. I was listening to a top official from Poland on this weekend with Jake Tapper, you know, talking about not only are these refugees welcome into Poland, Sebastian, they are given a number of things in addition to the emergency assistant organizations like yours, give them, they're given identification, the ability to set up small businesses, for example, and to really sort of restart their lives in many ways. And I wonder what those refugees are saying to your team on the ground? Do they expect to stay? Do they feel like they have lost their home, you know, in Ukraine potentially for good?

REJAK: Out of the 2.2 million refugees that have crossed the border into Poland, some 500,000 have already left Poland for some other countries in most cases, that's Germany, but also Spain. A lot of people are travelling north Estonian and Finland, where they also have families.

What they're telling us is, we are finally in a safe place. So Poland, when they cross the border, it's the first place that they feel they are safe. Some are getting help from local governments, institutions, from NGOs, and individuals, those brave 1000s of brave volunteers. Of course, after the first day or two, they start thinking about okay, what's next? Do they stay here or continue westwards, or should I think about continuing my life in Poland rather thinking about going back to Ukraine when the war is over? there's a million scenarios and, you know, a difference on a case by case basis.

HARLOW: Sebastian, the President of Poland this week, comparing Russia's attacks on Ukraine to Nazi forces during World War II saying, just yesterday, the besieged Mariupol, and we've now seen these stark aerial images of Mariupol look like Warsaw in 1944, after the Germans bombed houses and killed civilians with no mercy at all. I know you sent your group a letter to the White House, to President Biden earlier this month, saying please consider additional steps to support Ukraine struggle to defend itself. We hear the White House is going to announce additional sanctions on Russia today, tomorrow. I wonder what you believe is most necessary from the U.S. right now.

REJAK: It's actually a strengthening the sanctions and making sure that the sanctions are all encompassing. We need also to -- those sanctions to target Russian energy sources and the trade was with Russia. The U.S. has been doing a lot with Europe, it's a bit different and more difficult because European countries Member of the European Union wide a number of them rely on energy supplies gas and fuel from Russia.

So that it's hard to imagine this will happen overnight like that Europe will apply hard sanctions against Russia. But definitely energy is one of those areas where we have to be tough. The West has to be tough. If that does not happen, Russia will continue getting funds on a daily basis. It's hundreds of millions of dollars and of course that supports their military efforts.

[10:50:04]

HARLOW: Sebastian Rejak, I thank you for your time and thank you to what your team is doing on the ground. We'll be right back.

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HARLOW: Well, Ukrainian band has turned the clashes punk rock classic London calling into a wartime rallying cry for Ukraine.

[10:55:00]

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HARLOW: That's the time which is Ukrainian for concrete their song Kyiv calling has turned a define anthem across the country during Russia's invasion. The band told our John Berman that is not exactly anger coming through their lyrics. It's more than that. Listen.

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ANDRIY ZHOLOB, LEAD SINGER, BATON: It's not so anger it's rather a nerve. We are nervous about our families. We are nervous about people who are all around us. We are shouting the song. We are -- really, we not only singing but we are shouting this song. We are screaming this song.

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HARLOW: Well, thank you so much for joining me and John Berman today. See you back here with special coverage tomorrow. I'm Poppy Harlow at this hour, with Kate Bolduan is after a quick break.

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