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President Biden Heads Overseas; Ukrainian Forces Counterattack. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 23, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:20]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Alisyn is off.

Just into the CNN NEWSROOM, two senior NATO officials now say that up to 15,000 Russians have been killed in Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Overall, the officials say that between 30,000 and 40,000 Russian soldiers either have been killed, wounded or are missing altogether.

Now, just shy of a month into this war, the intense battles and high stakes, the talks there continue. Russian forces are focusing on Eastern Ukraine. The British Defense Ministry says that Russian troops are moving in from the north and the south to surround Ukrainian troops in the eastern part of the country.

Now, there's also, of course, the battle for control of the capital, Kyiv. There are new reports of Putin's troops firing into private homes and attacking a mall and nearby buildings. But Ukrainians are pushing back. The mayor of Irpin says -- that's a suburb of Kyiv -- says that most of his city is back under Ukrainian control.

And there's new video that shows a firefight between Russian and Ukrainian forces. This is about 13 miles northeast of Kyiv. This was published first by a Ukrainian politician, who says the fighters for Ukraine are Chechens who fled Russia.

You see them shooting missiles from a shoulder-fired launcher. Watch this. Wow, we rarely see that angle of this fight.

Next hour, President Biden is expected to arrive at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, a day ahead of a critical summit in which a new round of Russian sanctions will be announced.

Let's go now to CNN's Don Lemon. He's in Lviv. That's in Western Ukraine.

So, Don, we're hearing of the progress that Ukrainian forces are making in some parts of the country, but also still these images of the damage, the destruction, of course, these reports of death throughout Ukraine, especially in Mariupol.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yes. Hello to you, Victor.

And right on. I want everyone just to take a look at these -- this aerial footage. It's from Mariupol. Here it is. It is truly a city in ashes, as Ukraine's president said this week. That is a quote from him. And just look at the images up on your screen right now.

It looks like ruins from a past time, he said. At least 80 percent of the structures there have been destroyed. The prosecutor general of Ukraine said today that Russia's bombardment of the city is not about war. It's about genocide. And we're also learning that Russians captured a convoy of humanitarian buses headed for Mariupol to help rescue people.

But, first, we have some breaking news. The U.S. government has formally declared that members of the Russian armed forces have committed war crimes in Ukraine. That is according to a new statement from the secretary of state, Tony Blinken.

I want to get straight now to CNN's Alex Marquardt at the State Department.

What more does this statement say, Alex?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, this is hugely significant.

We have heard President Joe Biden in the past few days call President Vladimir Putin a war criminal. We have heard some of President Biden's top deputies here at the State Department saying that they personally believed that Russia was committing war crimes.

And now it is official. The U.S. government the Biden administration is saying that Russian forces in Ukraine are carrying out war crimes. This comes from a statement -- a statement from the secretary of state, Tony Blinken, who is on that flight with President Biden about to land in Brussels for that NATO summit.

And part of the statement reads that: "We have seen numerous credible reports of indiscriminate attacks and attacks deliberately targeting civilians, as well as other atrocities. Russia's forces have destroyed apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, critical infrastructure, civilian vehicles, shopping centers and ambulances, leaving thousands of innocent civilians killed or wounded."

So, Don, Secretary Blinken concluding here: "I can announce that, based on information currently available, that the U.S. government assesses that members of Russia's forces have committed war crimes in Ukraine."

[14:05:04]

Now, much of this statement does focus on the ongoing atrocities in the southern city of Mariupol. That is the port city, that coastal city on the Sea of Azov that we have spent so much time talking about, because it has come under a withering attack, perhaps like nowhere else in Ukraine. Local officials say that more than 2,400 civilians have been killed in that town of around 400,000 people, this statement from Secretary Blinken pointing out a number of these examples of civilians being targeted, that maternity ward, that children's hospital that was hit by Russian forces that was just incredible, those devastating scenes of pregnant women being evacuated from that hospital.

The statement also notes the strike on a theater in downtown Mariupol, where it's believed somewhere between 800 and 1,300 people had been taking shelter. And we saw clearly from satellite imagery that people there had written the word "Children" in Russian in very large letters outside of that theater in order to prevent exactly what happened, that Russian strike on that theater.

So these are just a couple of examples that the secretary of state is pointing out, Don, but making the point more broadly that it's not just about Mariupol. It is in places all across the country, names that our viewers have come to know quite well, Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Irpin, of course, where the U.S. government is now saying Russian forces are carrying out war crimes -- Don.

LEMON: And we are expected to hear from Tony Blinken possibly shortly, saying that it's war crimes. But what are you going to do about it? That is a next step, the next question.

Alex, we will keep a close eye. Thank you very much. We appreciate that.

I want to turn back now to what's happening here in the region.

And that is CNN's Phil Black, who is with us also in Lviv.

Phil, we're talking about that Russian takeover of the convoy of buses. What do you know about the buses? They were on their way to help with the humanitarian process in this war. What do you know about that?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, during the daylight hours, there is a humanitarian corridor out of Mariupol to the west. It's been negotiated by Ukrainian and Russian forces.

It takes people through Russian-controlled territory into Ukrainian territory. There are thousands of people, several thousand people making their way through that corridor every day in private vehicles. No buses have been able to get in and out. Today, the Ukrainian government tried to send in a convoy...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I need to get to the State Department. We have some more information on the secretary of state.

Let's see what's happening, saying that Russia is committing war crimes. Here it is. Here's the representative.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS) BETH VAN SCHAACK, U.S. AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR GLOBAL CRIMINAL

JUSTICE: ... and interagency leadership on issues related to genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

As the secretary noted last week, our office is leading the department's efforts to collect, analyze, and document potential war crimes being committed in Ukraine. Earlier today, Secretary Blinken issued a statement announcing that, based on information that is currently available, the U.S. government assesses that Russia's forces are committing war crimes in Ukraine.

I wanted to provide you with some additional information underlying this assessment. We have all seen really horrific images and accounts from the extensive and unrelenting attacks on civilians and civilian sites being conducted by Russian forces in Ukraine.

There have been numerous credible reports of hospitals, schools, theaters, et cetera, being intentionally attacked, as well as indiscriminate attacks. Russia's forces have destroyed apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, other elements of the critical civilian infrastructure.

We have been shocked by images of Russian forces and strikes hitting civilian sites in Mariupol, including the maternity hospital and museum and an art school.

The United Nations and other credible observers have confirmed hundreds of civilian deaths. And we believe that the exact civilian death told will be in the thousands. Last week, Secretary Blinken expressed his view that some of Russians' reported attacks did in fact constitute war crimes.

He emphasized that the Department of State and other U.S. departments will be documenting and assessing the facts and the law surrounding these reports. The assessment has now concluded with a current -- with a careful review of currently available information, both public and from intelligence sources.

This review underpins the assessment that the secretary announced today, that Russian forces are indeed committing war crimes in Ukraine.

As with any alleged crime, ultimately, it will be for a court of law to determine individual criminal responsibility, who is directly responsible for these particular cases. The U.S. government will continue to track reports coming out of Ukraine of war crimes. And we will share this information with our friends and allies and with international and multilateral institutions as appropriate.

[14:10:08]

We are also supporting the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office and their War Crimes Directorate and supporting civil society documentation efforts.

I want to reiterate our solidarity for the people of Ukraine. We are committed to pursuing full accountability for war crimes in Ukraine, using all of the tools that are available to us, including criminal prosecutions.

As the secretary said, those who are responsible for such abuses must be held accountable. So, with that, I would welcome some questions.

QUESTION: Thank you, Ambassador, and welcome. Congratulations on your confirmation.

VAN SCHAACK: Thank you.

QUESTION: I'm just curious.

In terms of the information that you say that you're collecting and -- or have collected and are going to share with partners, allies, international institutions, where exactly do you think the accountability here is going to come from? It does not appear likely -- or, in fact, it's impossible, basically, that any kind of U.N. mandated or U.N.-approved court will take this up, considering it's got to go through the Security Council, and Russia will veto it.

So where exactly are you expecting the accountability to come from?

VAN SCHAACK: Obviously, we're going to be considering all the options that are available to us, including domestic courts.

Obviously, we have the courts in Ukraine itself as the territorial state, and the Prosecutor General's Office does have a War Crimes Directorate. Some funding from the Office of Global Criminal Justice is supporting efforts to build capacity within that office and help them do these cases, ultimately, if and when they have custody over particular perpetrators.

In addition, third states within the region who may gain custody over perpetrators or potentially be able to do in absentia trials would have jurisdiction over war crimes committed within Ukraine. And then we welcome to the fact that the new incoming prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has also opened an investigation into the situation within Ukraine.

So there are some options for accountability, even absent a dedicated tribunal, as you mentioned.

NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Michelle (ph).

QUESTION: If I can follow up on that, because the U.S. is not a party but the court and the previous administration even had sanctions against the ICC.

Are you cooperating with the new prosecutor of the ICC?

VAN SCHAACK: I think everything's on the table. We're considering all the various options for accountability. There have been no specific asks.

I do understand that the prosecutor has been meeting with the Assembly of States Parties, which are members of the court, and may have specific asks for those members who have cooperation duties towards the court. But as a non-state party member, we're not a member of the court, and so we don't have any affirmative cooperation duties.

PRICE: (OFF-MIKE)

QUESTION: Thanks, Ned.

Thank you, Ambassador.

(OFF-MIKE) on a practical level what the immediate (OFF-MIKE) would be what changes, and how can this potentially help the Ukrainian people, if at all?

Thank you.

VAN SCHAACK: I think it's incredibly important to shed a light on what's happening within Ukraine, so that the people of Ukraine understand that the world knows what they are suffering and that they're doing -- they're suffering at the hands of an aggressive war that was launched unprovoked by Russia.

It's also extremely important to continue to document what's happening on the ground to preserve that information as potential evidence for future accountability purposes. We don't want to lose that evidence. We don't want that evidence to be tampered with. So it's extremely important that it be collected now and preserved with an eye towards future accountability.

LEMON: OK, so you're listening now -- that was Beth Van Schaack.

She is the ambassador at large for global criminal justice.

Back with me now to discuss is Alex Marquardt. He's at the State Department, CNN's Phil Black with me in Lviv. And also with me is CNN global affairs analyst, Kimberly Dozier.

Thank you all for joining us on this breaking news, the U.S. State Department saying that Russia and its troops committing war crimes on the people of Ukraine.

As I said, Alex -- I'm going to get to you first the State Department. The question is, what does this mean? What is going to happen? The first question was about accountability. That is the real question here.

MARQUARDT: Yes.

What this does, obviously, in a very powerful way, Don, is to put down a marker from one of the most powerful countries in the world that, in no uncertain terms, do they believe that war crimes have been committed by these Russian forces.

Now, many would say that this is something that's been quite obvious over the past few weeks, as Russians have stepped up their attacks, obviously not just on military targets in Ukraine, but on civilians as well. Ukrainian officials saying now that thousands of Ukrainian civilians have been killed as a result of this Russian assault.

But this is a major question. It is not that -- the U.S. is not going to be able to necessarily carry out the prosecutions of Russian officials themselves. It could be -- there's a much larger question of which court would undertake these allegations, these accusations of Russian war crimes.

[14:15:18]

You heard that in the first question there from the AP's Matt Lee. Where would this -- where would they actually be held accountable? The first instinct for many would be the International Criminal Court. But, as was just noted by the ambassador there, the U.S. is not a member of the International Criminal Court.

So what the U.S. can do on its own is carry out prosecutions in its own courts, in domestic courts, in American courts. That's one thing that the U.S. can do. The ambassador there also noting that the Ukrainians obviously have their own courts, in which -- where Russians could be prosecuted.

But this is very much -- this is going to be the biggest question out of this announcement is, this -- it's all well and good for the U.S. to declare that these war crimes have taken place. But what are going to -- what could be the possible consequences of Russian officials? Where would they possibly face those consequences?

That is very much to be determined. What is not to be determined, according to the United States, is this question of whether or not war crimes have been committed.

LEMON: Yes.

And as you heard, Kimberly Dozier, as you heard the ambassador say, this is really about showing solidarity to the Ukrainian people and letting the world know that they're watching, that they're paying attention, and that they believe, meaning the United States and its allies, that Putin, Vladimir Putin, and the Russians have indeed committed war crimes. It's a way of putting it on the record, so to speak.

Am I wrong?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's the right thing to do.

It's also something that the Zelenskyy government has been pushing for on all global powers that go against Russia. But it's also a message to everyone around Vladimir Putin. Does he care? No. But every top official who's part of his hierarchy and every top military commander, they're the ones who could really be impacted by this. If they are convicted, they will never be able to travel anywhere in Europe or the United States, the way these judgments usually come down, and they become wanted men stuck inside Russia from here on out.

LEMON: Kimberly Dozier, thank you for that. Let's bring it back here. You and I are both in the region. We have

been watching this horror play out. As is mentioned here in the statement that the State Department put out, talking about -- it includes a Mariupol maternity hospital.

U.N. Office of High Commissioner of Human Rights expressly noted what happened on March 11 there. It includes a strike on a Mariupol theater where it was clearly marked outside that children were there, what we were talking about earlier, buses that were for humanitarian aid bombed, and 11 of them at least.

So what are we talking about here? It's horrific, what we're talking about.

BLACK: Yes, I guess the thing to remember is that this is still ongoing. Mariupol is an ongoing siege, it's been like that for weeks.

There have been these horrible moments through the war, such as the maternity hospital, the theater with perhaps 1,300 people inside them, and so forth. But the pictures that we have been seeing out of there just in the last day or so show just how widespread and indiscriminate this bombardment is.

The civilian population there has been struck again and again and again and again. And there are still hundreds of thousands of people, we understand, trapped there, enduring terrible conditions with very little food, water, heat, living in constant fear, not knowing when they will feel safe again, if they will get out, not knowing how this is going to end.

So I guess perhaps an interesting point here is perhaps not accountability, because that does seem unlikely in the long term, realistically. The Russian Constitution doesn't allow for extradition anyway. So these people, if they have to stay in Russia, they would stay in Russia if individuals are identified.

But could this deter people? Could this in some way alter the way that this particular campaign is being conducted? Perhaps there might be some individuals that are impacted by this. But if you would have to -- if you look at the overall campaign, from the leadership down, and the way that war is being waged in this country, you would not think that this is going to be a significant deterrence...

(CROSSTALK)

BLACK: ... changing the tactics that are being used.

LEMON: For the U.S. State Department to come out with the statement, the president of the United States to say it, to have our allies weighing in, but the State Department now acknowledging it and saying that they are going to at least try to seek some sort of accountability for it, I think says a lot in the end that will bring attention to it.

The media and people will continue to talk about it.

Phil, Alex, Kim, thank you very much for that.

Victor, so there you go. The circumstances and the details surrounding this war can change at any moment. That's the latest from the region.

[14:20:01]

We're going to send it back to you in New York.

BLACKWELL: Yes, that big declaration right before the president lands in Brussels.

Don, thank you very much.

He's expected to around there next -- arrive there next hour for tomorrow's NATO summit.

Before President Biden left, though, he acknowledged concerns that Russia could use chemical weapons against Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: How concerned are you about the threat of chemical warfare right now, that Russia will use chemical weapons? How high is that threat?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's a real threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Wolf Blitzer joins me now from Brussels.

Wolf, very high stakes for the president. There could be huge implications for NATO. What should we expect from this summit?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: It's going to be really, really important, Victor, probably the most important national security foreign policy trip that this president, President Biden, has undertaken so far.

The stakes right now are enormous. There is great fear, as you know, Victor, that what's going on in Ukraine right now potentially, potentially could get a whole lot worse. This war is by no means over. And President Biden is going to be meeting with all of the other 29 NATO leaders here in Brussels. That's going to be critically important to determine what NATO as an alliance will do.

He will also meet with the G7 leaders, separate round of talks on that. And, finally, he is going to meet with the E.U., the European Council. They're going to have a separate round of talks as well. The president will have a formal news conference here in Brussels before he heads off to Warsaw, Poland, for efforts -- for U.S. efforts to try to deal with this enormous refugee crisis.

Three-and-a-half million refugees from Ukraine have spilled over now, have left Ukraine and have gone over to neighboring countries, most of them going to Poland. So, the president's can be going to Poland. This is critically -- all of this is critically important, because

there is great fear among the U.S. that the Russians, in their desperation, potentially, God forbid, could use chemical or biological weapons. And they're even talking about nuclear weapons, some sort of tactical nuclear weapon.

So this is a great concern to top U.S. officials right now. And one of the topics on the agenda, there's no doubt about this, will be the deployment of more NATO battle groups, U.S. troops, other NATO allies' troops in the eastern NATO ally -- eastern NATO countries.

The U.S. ambassador to NATO just said NATO leaders will approve four additional battle groups in Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Slovakia, all NATO allies, of course.

Joining me here in Brussels right now is our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, I understand you and your team, you have been getting some new reporting about various options being presented to President Biden for sending more U.S. troops and other NATO troops to Eastern Europe. Tell our viewers what you have learned.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, President Biden will be here in Brussels in about an hour from now.

But we do know that, before he left, the Pentagon did provide him with a range of options for sending more troops, potentially U.S. troops to NATO countries here in Europe that, of course, are understandably concerned about Russian aggression, given this invasion of Ukraine that has now stretched into one month.

And so while it remains to be seen what exactly President Biden and other allies here at the NATO summit are going to talk about, what they will finalize when it comes to this decision, this does seem likely, because you heard from the head of NATO saying earlier they do expect to increase the NATO force posture.

That likely means more U.S. troops are coming to these countries that are right there, Eastern European countries right there on the border of Ukraine or potentially Russia that have real concerns, of course, about their own protection, their own sovereignty, their own safety.

And so this is something that has been discussed behind the scenes. It's only going to be part of the announcements that you're getting from President Biden tomorrow, though, after he has a series of meetings, Wolf, very abruptly scheduled meetings, where he is expected to announce new sanctions on Russia.

We know part of that is going to be sanctioning hundreds of these Russian lawmakers in the Lower House of Parliament. And they're also going to announce new measures to try to crack down on the existing sanctions to make sure people can't evade them.

So all of this is up for discussion while President Biden is going to be here meeting with these NATO allies, going to a European Council meeting, and then, of course, also meeting with the leaders of the G7 nations as well here tomorrow in Brussels, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, we're going to be really, really busy.

This is going to be a historic day tomorrow here in Brussels.

Kaitlan, we're going to be watching every step of the way, because the stakes right now, what's going to happen to these millions and millions of people in Ukraine, the stakes are clearly enormous.

Kaitlan Collins is here with us.

Victor, we're going to have a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" later today 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. Eastern, two hours. We're watching all of this unfold, getting ready for these critically important meetings here tomorrow.

BLACKWELL: All right, looking forward to it.

Wolf, in Brussels, thank you.

[14:25:02]

Ukrainian forces are pushing back against the Russians in some parts of the country. We also have new video that shows Russia launching cruise missiles off the coast of Crimea. We are going to break down the combat tactics. That's next.

And it's the final day of questioning for Supreme Court nominee Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. We have the latest from Capitol Hill as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: We have some sad breaking news now.

Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright has died at the age of 84. She was the very first woman to hold that position, a strong diplomat, known to never mince words, and remembered by many for those unique pins and broaches that she would wear to send subtle messages to world leaders.

CNN's Richard Roth looks at her legacy.

[14:30:00]