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U.S. Formally Declares Russians Committed War Crimes In Ukraine; Ukrainian Forces Go On Offensive, Take Back Ground From Russia; Former Secretary Of State Madeleine Albright Dies At 84. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 23, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKOB KERN, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME EMERGENCY COORDINATOR FOR UKRAINE CRISIS: Russia and Ukraine are combining -- combine 30 percent of the wheat production in the world. Ukraine is the fifth largest producer worldwide, and in the top three for maize, barley and sunflower oil.

So, if it doesn't come out of this backseat, people have to buy it from further away, the costs are higher. The Middle East especially, there's a lot of Congress in the Middle East that depend heavily on wheat from Ukraine, Lebanon more than 50 percent.

The consequences, the price is going up. For the World Food Programme alone, we bought 50 percent of the wheat worldwide that we needed; 790,000 tons in Ukraine. And as a consequence of the high food prices, we have to spend $70 million more for the same amount of food. And with $70 million --

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Wow.

KERN: -- we could actually feed 4 million. That's the direct consequences for us.

LEMON: Well, Jacob Kern, we thank you so much for joining us and continue to do that great work. We appreciate it. Thanks so much.

KERN: You're welcome. Bye.

LEMON: Victor, biggest humanitarian since World War II. Back to you in New York.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: It's tragic to watch. Don, thank you.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLACKWELL: It's the top of hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

A short time ago, the United States government formally declared that Russia's military has committed war crimes during its invasion of Ukraine. And just days ago, President Biden and his top two diplomats said it was their personal opinions that war crimes had been committed. In a statement, the State Department said Vladimir Putin has unleashed unrelenting violence deliberately targeting hospitals and ambulances and a theater in Mariupol that was clearly labeled as having children inside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH VAN SCHAACK, U.S. AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR GLOBAL CRIMINAL JUSTICE: I think it's incredibly important to shed a light on what's happening in Ukraine so the people understand the world know what is they are suffering and they are suffering at the hands of an aggressive war that was launched unprovoked by Russia. It's also extremely important to continue to document what's happening on the ground to preserve that information as potential evidence for a future accountability purposes.

We don't want to lose that evidence. We don't want that evidence to be tampered with. So, it's extremely important that it'd be collected now and preserved with an eye towards future accountability.

BLACKWELL: New video of Mariupol shows how nearly a month of Putin's has left the thriving port city of 450,000 people in ruins. Ukraine's president said that about 100,000 people are left in Mariupol, and consider that the city council says that at least 80 percent of the structures there have been destroyed.

The prosecutor general of Ukraine said today that Russia's bombardment of the city is not about war. It is about genocide.

But in other parts of the country, Ukrainians say that their forces have been able to take back some territory from the Russians, notably near Kyiv. This hour, President Biden is expected to arrive in Brussels. Of course, this is the day ahead of a critical summit and we're told that a new round of sanctions against Russia we'll be announced.

Let's go back now to CNN's Don Lemon in Lviv. Of course, that's in western Ukraine.

We're learning of really the staggering death toll on the Russian side. What are you hearing, Don?

LEMON: We're hearing a lot. We're hearing that two -- according to two senior NATO officials that up to 15,000 Russians, Victor, have been killed in Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. They give a range and estimated -- the death toll could be as high a 7,000. That is on the low end.

Overall, the officials say that between 30,000 to 40,000 Russian soldiers have either been killed, wounded or are missing altogether.

I want to focus on the battle for Kyiv, Ukraine's capital and the surrounding areas.

CNN's Sam Kiley is there. He's been reporting from the region for weeks now.

Sam, hello to you. Tell us what has been happening just the last day as Ukrainians fight to keep their largest city? SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, I think

it's safe to say there's been a very substantial offensive going on, a counteroffensive by the Ukrainian government forces. They are enjoying some degree of battlefield success all day, Don. And I've just been hearing more as night has already fallen.

It's been the sound of heavy artillery. It's not all of it will be Ukrainian. Of course, the Russians have a lot of multiple rocket launching systems that they've been pounding away too. But they've been focusing a lot of the Ukrainian effort in the northwest-north and north of the city.

This is particularly around the town of Irpin, where the local police force has been back on patrol, quite extraordinary development. The mayor of Irpin saying in that northwestern area that 80 percent of town is now back in government hands, back in Ukrainian hands.

There's some 4,000 people according to him, still trapped there, Don. That is an astronomical number of people to live -- to have live through what is being really -- certainly judging by the sounds and where good, I'd say, 15 kilometers, 10 miles or so, away from Irpin at least, we can hear the thumping all day. And that's been going on for three days at least.

But some signs of success continue to -- some sign of success for a Ukrainian government forces there. Further west, though, due west really, they were strikes against from the Russians against civilian areas, in the west of the city, south of Irpin, I think part of that ongoing battle which the Ukrainian say is part of an effort to set out a series of defensive rings to continue to protect the capital -- Don.

LEMON: Sam Kiley, getting back to this devastation and I understand you're learning of the Russian capture of a convoy of buses that were headed to rescue Ukrainians from the port city. What do you know?

KILEY: Well, this is part of the effort to try to get buses, try to get vehicles into Mariupol, to try to get some kind of an agreement from the Russian forces to allow the evacuation of civilians from the city that you can see on the screens have been utterly devastated, reduced to ashes in the words of President Zelenskyy.

Now, there were 11 buses being organized by the Russians to -- sorry, by the government, by the Ukrainian government, not the Russians -- 11 buses, driven to try to get through to get people out. The tiny number of buses compared to the numbers of people trap there had, they were kidnapped a few days ago. I think a day and a half ago by the Russians. The buses were taken as were the drivers.

There were have been though some people who managed to escape from the city telling tales of most extraordinary privations, there's no food. There's no water. There are, according to local officials, at least there's artillery strikes, missile strikes, rocket strikes and now lately bombardment coming from naval ships. The big begins on naval ships are being brought to bear on this town.

It's a key strategic town, Don, from the Russian perspective because it and only really stands between the further eastern area that's already under the control of Russian backed rebel and their control further to the West. It essentially is a bulwark against a complete Russian control over the whole of the Azov Sea coast -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Sam Kiley, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Let's go back to Victor now in New York -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Don Lemon in Lviv.

Let's go to Brussels next. Thank you.

President Biden is expected to land there some time this hour for a crucial NATO summit on Ukraine. He arrives as the U.S. formally declares that members of the Russian armed forces have committed war crimes during now the four-week-old invasion.

Phil Mattingly is CNN senior White House correspondent. He's in Brussels, ahead of the president's arrival.

So, Phil, this declaration likely will have some serious impact on the summit this week.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Victor, I think it explicitly frames the urgency of the moment, the U.S. officials are feeling, that the European counterparts are feeling and really the entire genesis of why the leaders are arriving in Brussels for this hastily NATO summit, a European meeting as well, and a meeting of the G7, underscoring the fact the dynamic needs to change.

That's what one official told me earlier and no sign it will change soon even though there's a stalemate. In fact, it's a stalemate that is causing a lot of concerns about what President Vladimir Putin and his forces may do next, and that includes chemical warfare, as President Biden alluded to this morning. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: How concerned are you about the threat of chemical warfare right now? That Russia will use questions? How high is that threat?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's a real threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And, Victor, this is not a concern that's tied to the United States. Here in Brussels, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg talked about concerns of chemical warfare, talked about how that would be game-changing in terms of the response to the Western coalition, and also about show to aid and assist Ukrainians as it relates to chemical and biological weapons will be a central point of discussion for the NATO alliance over the course of the next day with potential deliverables on that issue as well.

I think overall when you talk to U.S. officials heading into this summit. [15:10:03]

They point to the fact the coalition that's been put together and that stayed together over the course to have last month, has imposed significant cost particularly on the Russian economy. That needs to persist, that needs to be able to last as long as this conflict appears it's going to last. The goal coming out of the next 24 hours is very clearly to maintain the unity but also to significantly ramp up the pressure on President Putin -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Phil Mattingly for us in Brussels, thank you very much.

Major step by the U.S. government, as we said, officially declaring that Russia has committed war crimes in Ukraine. We'll get reaction from the former ambassador to Ukraine, that's next.

And more tense moment during the confirmation hearing of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson after Republicans accused of being too lenient on child porn defendants. Her response, ahead.

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[15:15:11]

BLACKWELL: NATO leaders are scheduled to approve the deployment of four additional battle groups to Eastern European countries. That's according to the U.S. ambassadors to NATO. This move will double the number of troops the alliance has in the region, as leaders discussed their longtime presence along the eastern border.

Joining me now is former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst. He's now the senior director for the Atlantic Center's Eurasia Center.

Mr. Ambassador, welcome back.

I want to start with this assessment, declaration from the U.S. government through the statement from the secretary of state where he says that the U.S. government assesses that member of Russia's forces have committed war crimes in Ukraine. Russia's forces have destroyed apartment buildings and schools and hospitals, critical infrastructures, civilian vehicles, shopping centers, ambulances.

What's your reaction to this assessment from the government?

JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Well, I think that's an honest description of the war crimes committed by Kremlin directed forces in Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: And then what? Now this assessment has happened, should there be some special significant decision from the U.S. because of this assessment?

HERBST: Some people say they should be process of accusing Russia formally of war crimes. I think that's not an unreasonable thing to do. I don't think that's the highest priority. The highest priority is to send the equipment we can to Ukraine to make sure that Russia is defeated in its war of aggression. The administration should be focusing on that in the first instances.

BLACKWELL: So, I think it's fair to say that you're a bit underwhelmed by the response from the U.S. government to the situation in the Ukraine. Would that be fair to say?

HERBST: At best I've been whelmed. Not underwhelmed.

BLACKWELL: Whelmed at best, okay, all right.

HERBST: In other words, the response has been barely adequate. I'm not saying it's inadequate, but it could be much better and it should be much better.

BLACKWELL: OK. So then, in that context, what do you want to hear from the president tomorrow?

HERBST: Well, I think we'll hear one thing that is very important, which is the alliance, NATO is united and we're increasing substantially our force posture in NATO's east. That's wonderful.

But there are two other things that should be very much on the president's agenda, and I hope that these things are. First, coming back to what I just said. NATO should be taking a more robust approach led by Washington to provide weapon systems to Ukraine. We need to make sure those S300s get to Ukraine immediately. We need to make sure those MiGs and the Sohueys (ph) get to Ukraine immediately.

We should be sending anti-ship missiles so that the they can take out those ships that are right now bombarding Mariupol, which are right now bombarding Odessa. So, that's the second item on his mind. Making NATO's response stronger.

The third thing, there should be very clear discussion and agreement reached on what NATO will do if Russia, quote-unquote, accidentally sends a missile into Poland. That's the accidentally, quote-unquote sending missile to Poland, that's breaching President Biden's red line. You know, not one inch, we will defend every inch of NATO soil. What if Moscow sends in that missile and says it's not an accident. We need to be prepared for that.

And so far, we have no indication this is on the president's agenda. It's on NATO's agenda. But that's a very important question.

BLACKWELL: Is that your expectation of how, if Vladimir Putin decides to squash the border from Ukraine, opened to NATO countries, that there will be the explanation of what happens, that it was an accident, that it was inadvertent.

HERBST: Look, Putin has lost a lot in terms of his relationship with the West as the result of his new invasion. But he could gain back a substantial part of that if he does something which calls the NATO Article 5 commitment to defend each other from foreign attack into question. So, I could easily see him directing a missile towards Poland, maybe

just to get into Polish air space and explode without any damage on person or property and say it was an accident to see what NATO does. I can also see him, because he's sometimes very rash, doing the same thing and saying it wasn't an accident. It was a warning.

Either of those things require a serious NATO response. Not saying we don't have to do anything because it was, quote/unquote, accident. We need to demonstrate the NATO territory is not to be trifled with.

But I don't have a clear sense that the administration understands this. If you're paying attention to the Russian media, you know that in over past several weeks, there have been a virulent anti-Polish campaign and Putin's closest associate, his mini-me, Dmitri Medvedev, wrote a piece about Poland, talking about its historical anti-Russian activities, nefarious anti-Russian activities.

[15:20:10]

This is a sort of article that Medvedev as well as Putin wrote before they went into Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

HERBST: So, Moscow is sending menacing signals. We should be prepared for Moscow acting on those signals. And if this happens, we have to respond strongly. Otherwise, we're inviting further provocation station, knowing the information.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of menacing signals, Dmitry Peskov, the spokesman for Kremlin, he spoke with Christiane Amanpour and she asked him, essentially, would you -- would Putin use nuclear weapons in Ukraine? And his answer was, if there's an existential threat to Russia, they could be used. Of course, Russian definitions of existential threat, and sovereignty and all the rest of it, the relevant terms are, they're warped.

How did you receive that response from Peskov?

HERBST: That was a clever response, threatening without describing what would actually set it off. One card that Putin has played well is waving around his nuclear capability as a way to intimidate us from doing things we should be doing to protect our national interest and to making sure that Russia is defeated in Ukraine, and he believes, Putin I mean, that Western leaders are weak.

The way we have let Russia deter us and push us around with a nuclear threat confirms that in Putin's mind. That's more dangerous than sending MiGs into Ukraine or anything else we have been putting back on because we, quote-unquote, are afraid that Putin will escalate.

You know, after Putin raised the nuclear alert in Ukraine, we cancelled a nuclear exercise. We thought we were being not provocative. Putin saw us as being weak. That's dangerous in this crisis. That's very dangerous to us, to our allies.

BLACKWELL: Ambassador John Herbst, thank you, sir.

We have some sad, breaking news to report. Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright has died of cancer at the age of 84. She was the first woman to ever serve as America's top diplomat and at a time Albright was the highest-ranking woman in the U.S. government.

Known for never mincing words, she was easily recognized for those trademark pins, as she called them, that she wore in meetings with various world leaders. It was her way of sending subtle messages.

Albright also pushed for the expansion of NATO and its intervention in the Balkans war to stop genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Moments ago, State Department spokesman Ned Price honored her legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: The impact that she's had on this building is felt every single day and just about every single corridor. A number of our most senior officials from Secretary Blinken to Deputy Secretary Sherman to our Chief of Staff Suzy George have -- we're lucky enough to call her a boss but I think the better word is probably mentor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Her family released a statement. Here is part of it. We are heartbroken to announce that Dr. Madeleine K. Albright, the 64th secretary of state and first woman to hold that position passed away earlier today. We have lost a loving mother, grandmother, sister, aunt and friend. Of course, our condolences to Dr. Albright's family.

Ahead of President Biden's trip to Brussels to meet NATO allies, the Pentagon gave him a series of options for putting more U.S. troops in Europe. We've got details, next.

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[15:28:28]

LEMON: We're back now live from Ukraine where we're getting some new drone footage into CNN and it shows the extent of the flooding in the Irpin river base in northwest of Kyiv. For days, satellite images have shown rising water levels of the Irpin River. Now, that new video is giving a better glimpse of just how far south the flooding has spread.

The river is critical to the Russian advance towards Kyiv. If the Russians cannot cross it, they cannot take Kyiv from the west. CNN has geolocated and verified the authenticity of the video.

And ahead of tomorrow's NATO summit, the Pentagon is giving the White House a series of options for potentially adding more U.S. troops to Eastern Europe.

Let's check in now with CNN's Oren Liebermann. He joins us from the Pentagon with more on this. Oren, hello to do you.

Again, we're not talking about troop deployment in Ukraine itself but possibly in neighboring nations. What kind of options are we talking about here?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are a number of options being considered in light of the reality of the situation on the ground there, in light of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. NATO officials have called it a new reality saying it will have a profound change on the European security environment.

Now the question is what to do about that. And that's what President Joe Biden will discuss with NATO allies. And this will be done in concert with them.

There are a number of options on the table. First, it will be to deploy more U.S. troops to basis in Europe, to sure up the countries to give them larger U.S. troop presence. There could also be a structured rotational presence within NATO forces, so U.S. contributing forces to NATO positions there, and making sure there's the bigger U.S. presence there.

The high-end option and this perhaps not likely simply because of expense is the U.S. could possibly build another base.