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President Zelenskyy Appeals to NATO; President Biden Speaks Out in Brussels. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 24, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:02]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There is no end in sight to this. So, who knows how many more there could be? And so that is something that the White House is saying. They will take up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees.

You also heard him talking about that $1 billion in assistance that they are going to offer, humanitarian assistance, that is, because of course, the concern that these countries have, that they are being overwhelmed by processing these refugees and what to do with them now that they are in their countries, because, clearly, they cannot go home.

And that will be the latter half of the president's trip here to Europe, Wolf. He is going to be potentially meeting with refugees, as he just indicated there, as he was talking about his plans to come, though he didn't want to say, obviously, where the president plans on going.

But, Wolf, there are still some big questions coming out of this press conference, one being what the response would be if Putin does decide to conduct a chemical weapons attack in Ukraine. And we have been talking to officials inside the White House, talking about their preparations that they have been making, Wolf, over the last four weeks since this invasion started.

Right now, a chemical weapons attack is one of their highest concerns. And so President Biden did say that they would respond to a chemical weapons attack. Obviously, what he did not say is what that response would look like.

And a big question has been whether or not it would change this calculus he has about no military intervention in Ukraine, no U.S. military intervention, I should note. That is still a big question.

Something that they also discussed behind closed doors today is how they would deploy other resources if there was an attack, containment resources, to help Ukraine if there was that chemical weapons attack. So that's, of course, still a hypothetical. The White House hopes it won't ultimately happen, though they do believe it is more likely than not that a chemical weapons attack will occur.

And so, Wolf, one other note on the G20 news that the president made, saying, yes, he does agree with the Australian prime minister that Russia should not have a spot in the G20. He said he believes Ukraine should be invited if they're not kicked out. But the question still remains, if Putin stays, if Russia stays, if Ukraine's not invited, will President Biden himself attended G20 summit that's upcoming later this year?

Those are still big questions. And, of course, this is still going to be right at the top of the president's priority list as he does wrap up this trip here in Europe, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Yes, the next meeting of the G20 scheduled for later this year in Indonesia.

And that was a blunt statement from the president of the United States that he wants Russia out, effectively making the G20 the G19, if you will, at least from now. But it's got to be a decision that all the G20 leaders come to. But the president was very blunt on that.

Kaitlan, stand by.

But very quickly, before I let you go, Kaitlan, what do you think about the president hinting, when he goes to Poland tomorrow and Saturday, when he was hinting he would meet with some individuals? I guess I shouldn't talk about that, he said.

COLLINS: I think the president was leaning into the idea that he's going to be meeting with refugees.

Obviously, that's not something that we have reported yet that the president will be doing, though it does seem likely, given what we have talked about when it comes to the refugees, when it comes to the president talking about the assistance for them, the ability for them to come to the United States and the numbers there.

There's been some questions, of course, of whether or not that meant Ukrainian President Zelenskyy himself. We had talked about this a lot with the White House before they left Washington to come here to Brussels. They said it was unlikely, given the immense logistics of undertaking something like that.

Obviously, it's difficult, if not impossible, for Zelenskyy to leave Ukraine right now. And the president had no plans of actually going into Ukraine, given it's an active war zone, according to the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Of course, it's the White House. They have plans that they keep under wraps, Wolf, but it seemed to be indicating to me that he is planning to meet with refugees while on the ground in Poland.

BLITZER: All right, that's good to know. Stand by. We're going to get back to you.

Lieutenant -- retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling is joining us right now. He's a CNN, a military analyst.

So, what jumped out at you, General Hertling, from what we heard from the president? LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the president's announcements, Wolf, were all very interesting, the increased security assistance, the potential for additional sanctions against the Duma and the defense entities.

I think -- I read that as being specific sectors of the Russian industry that contribute to their defensive posture, a billion in humanitarian assistance, 100,000 refugees and family reunification issues, energy security for Europe.

The kinds of sanctions that, as one reporter asked him, won't deter, but it's increasingly significant that he is leveling these kinds of sanctions against the Russian government, and it's continuing to hurt them more and more. And it will over the next several weeks.

The point is, though, Wolf, I think the president has been really brilliant in terms of pulling this 30-nation alliance back together. It was in tatters just a few months ago, didn't have a common focus.

[14:05:00]

But he has pulled them back together. And even in doing that, it's very difficult to get agreements by these 30 national leaders on what's best for their own nation's security. Even though they all want to help Ukraine in this crisis situation, they also have to consider their own domestic audience and their national security concerns.

So I think we, as Americans, sometimes say, how come we're not stopping the humanitarian disaster? How come we're not ending this war? Why can't we get Mr. Putin to stop this? Well, this is war. An enemy gets a vote. And we're talking about focusing as an alliance, 30 members in NATO, within your Europe on this alliance.

And as the president said when he talked the G20, he's now got to deal with other nations throughout the world to continue to put Mr. Putin in a pariah status, and not let him get back on the world stage. That's part of the initiatives that I think the president is attempting to do in these various engagements with -- well, with NATO, with the G20, with the G7 and all the others.

NATO is now united in action. It's maybe not doing all the things that President Zelenskyy wants them to do. But it's certainly doing more than they were doing six months ago. And, as Phil Mattingly said, it is -- they are contributing an awful lot to this fight.

BLITZER: Yes.

And if Putin thought he could divide NATO by this invasion of Ukraine, he failed miserably, because you're absolutely right. NATO, the 30 leaders of NATO, the NATO alliance is very, very united right now. And that was underscored during the course of these hours of this summit today.

The former deputy national intelligence officer for Russia, Eurasia affairs, Andrea Kendall-Taylor, is joining us right now as well. We did hear, Andrea, the -- President Zelenskyy. He spoke virtually. He was not here in Brussels. He spoke virtually with the NATO allies today. He made an appeal. He said, just give Ukraine maybe 1 percent of what the NATO alliance spends on weapons and military equipment, and that will do the trick.

What was your reaction to that?

ANDREA KENDALL-TAYLOR, CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: Yes, I think President Zelenskyy had a number of interesting things that he said.

Clearly, at the top of his list was this call for more arms and more weapons. And I think that call is being met with significant support from the alliance. I think we saw an outpouring of support, a continued, sustained desire by the allies to continue to flow those weapons into Ukraine.

But his speech was notable, I think, for also what he didn't say. He did not ask for the no-fly zone. That is clearly off the table. He also did not ask for NATO membership. And so I think that is an important shift here.

But -- so, in addition to the arms, the other piece on Zelenskyy's wish list now is this call for security guarantees. And that did come up in his meeting with NATO leaders. If neutrality is in the cards, then Ukrainians are going to be looking for security guarantees from the United States, from other NATO members.

So, that is going to put a lot of, I think, difficult decisions on the United States and other NATO members about what they're willing to provide in order to facilitate this agreement, because neutrality will be a piece of it. But along with that is going to have to be some sort of security guarantees that Ukraine can accept.

And because this is an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, it will also be something that Russia will have to agree to as well.

BLITZER: You know, Abby Phillip is with us, our senior political correspondent.

Abby, I thought one political question involved the president and his predecessor as far as Ukraine is concerned. What was your reaction when you heard the president react to what former President Trump was trying to achieve?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think this is a president, in Biden, who was pretty frustrated by these comparisons. He literally almost said, I don't have time to be engaged in these kinds of conversations.

But he seemed pretty confident that, if he were to face Trump again -- and it seems pretty clear that Trump is very much interested in running again -- that he says he doesn't think it would be a problem for him. And, in fact, he went on to say that European leaders, he said, among them, nobody has any doubts that he is up for the job. So Biden is, as he ran in the last election, one of the most

experienced U.S. presidents that has ever been elected, in part because he was a senator for decades and decades. He is on the world stage now, a place that he is very comfortable.

And he showed that confidence in the answer to that reporter, although I think we should note that he didn't explicitly say whether he would run again. This is a president who ran on a foreign policy platform that is the polar opposite of his predecessor.

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He ran on strengthening NATO. He ran on strengthening American alliances. And that is literally what he is attempting to do with this trip to NATO this week. And as he said at his onset of his remarks, he said he does -- he believes that Putin miscalculated.

Putin thought that he could divide NATO, and he did exactly the opposite. A President Biden said Putin produced actually a NATO that is more united than it has been in quite some time.

BLITZER: Yes, it's very united right now, NATO, indeed.

Phil Mattingly the China issue very, very significant right now, because the president basically saying, when he spoke with Xi Jinping the other day, basically saying, if China supports Russia, provides military assistance, provides other assistance to Russia, China's going to pay a huge economic price.

The sanctions against Russia have been almost pretty crippling right now. China potentially could brace for something along those line. That was what the president was suggesting, right?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, the White House has been very cautious about laying out exactly what any repercussions would be should they see that China's delivering military assistance, delivering any type of assistance, economic assistance as well, or attempting to circumnavigate the sanctions regime that has been put into place.

The interesting piece of what the president said publicly and what I was told he also said privately to President Xi is about the broader kind of economic goals of China and how this would run headlong into them in a very negative manner. And that involves not just the United States on a bilateral basis, but in particular, European countries.

I think one of the points that U.S. officials have tried to make, Jake Sullivan, as national security adviser, in a nearly seven-hour meeting with his Chinese counterpart in Rome, before the nearly two-hour conversation between Presidents Biden and Xi, is that the world turning away from China, at this moment in time, when you look at China's economic goals and its economic rise over the course of the last 10, 15, 20 years, it is so critical that the Western world be integrated with China for that to continue. And for China to choose Russia over the Western world, from an economic perspective, which is often the kind of driving piece of how Chinese policymakers make the decisions, would be very detrimental. And I think that's one of the overarching issues that he's trying to lay out.

But, make no mistake about it. Both Jake Sullivan and the president himself laid out that there would be significant consequences. What those would be, in terms of whether they would match up sanctions-wise with what we have seen with Russia or anything along those lines, has not been laid out in detail.

But I think the concern that China would get involved explicitly is very real with the administration. But administration officials have also made clear, Wolf, that since that conversation between President Xi and Biden, they have not seen any moves by China's provide military or economic assistance. However, they're watching very closely.

And they want to see how China, kind of their -- how their posture is how they maintain that posture over the course of the coming days and weeks.

One thing I think that was very interesting is, again, there are very different equities when it comes to Europeans and China, compared to where the U.S. is, on that issue specifically, on their bilateral relationship. And yet it was a key point of discussion here at the NATO meeting.

And China was mentioned explicitly in the joint NATO leaders' statement about the necessity -- concerns about their statements, concerns about contributions to disinformation, and the necessity of China, given its role and its relationship with Russia, coming in and playing a positive diplomatic role.

So, getting all 30 leaders to sign off on a statement that said that explicitly is not a small thing, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, you're absolutely right, very significant, indeed, 30 NATO allies there, the president meeting with the G7, the partners in the G7. Now he's going to be meeting with the European Union, the European Commission, European Council, three separate summits unfolding today.

Kaitlan, once again, Kaitlan Collins, our chief White House correspondent, is with us.

You were there inside that room when the president was talking, I think it was significant that he did announce, what, another $1 billion in various forms of humanitarian assistance to Ukraine, in addition to the hundreds of millions of dollars already provided, already pledged to the Ukrainians.

COLLINS: Yes.

And, of course, for these countries that are accepting so many of these Ukrainians in this difficult, obviously, immensely difficult time, Wolf, because a lot of these countries where they are going to have been so overwhelmed by the influx of refugees from Ukraine.

They have talked about the fact that they are taking in millions of people in some cases when it comes to Poland. And they are dealing with that and trying to deal with that challenge. And so they have pleaded for help with -- from other nations. And that is something that the United States is going to try to help with.

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And I think one thing that White House has said when it comes to refugees, Wolf, is, they believe most of them want to stay in Europe, because they want to eventually have this time, once this is over, to be able to go back home to where they lived, where they grew up, where they had their entire lives in Ukraine.

But with this decision from the White House to let in 100,000 Ukrainian refugees, up to 100,000 refugees, I just want to state how immensely difficult that is going to be. Last year, I believe the cap of total refugees into the United States was, after some back and forth, eventually bumped up to about 125,000.

Still, Wolf, the United States only took in about 12,000 refugees. I actually think it was fewer than 12,000. So this is a really big challenge ahead of the United States to deal with this. But this is something that they feel is important, obviously. It is something they have come under pressure from other allies to do, to make sure that, if there are Ukrainians who want to come and stay in the United States in this period, that that is an option for them.

And they have worked with the United Nations and others to try to speed up the expedite -- expedite the processing of that. And so that's a big task ahead of them.

But I also think the big question for so many of the countries here today, as they are talking about this, looking ahead to in June, when their next meeting is going to be, Wolf, is how long this problem is going to last, because the president there at the end, as he was wrapping up, was saying that the point of sanctions is not to deter Putin, but to make him feel the squeeze in the weeks and months to come.

And he's talked about how long it's going to take for them to feel that. I think it's a real concern for how long this could last. And when President Biden was asked by a reporter if he Ukraine would have to cede see territory to get a cease-fire with Russia, he said he would defer to Ukraine's leadership, obviously President Zelenskyy, but he notably did not say that he believed that they would have to do that, Wolf.

And I think that that is an interesting point of the president talking about what an endgame could look like here.

BLITZER: Yes, everybody would like to see an endgame, a positive endgame.

They don't want to see Russia continue to kill so many Ukrainian men, women and children. This war continues. And there's enormous fear, based on everything I have heard, not only back in Washington, but since I have been here at the -- this NATO summit, everything I hear, there's enormous fear this situation could get a whole lot worse in the coming days and weeks and even months.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks very much, Abby Phillip, Fred Pleitgen, Phil Mattingly, Andrea Kendall-Taylor.

We're staying on top of all of these issues.

Retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, let me not forget about you. We always appreciate what you're doing.

We're going to have much, much more from on the ground here at the -- in -- at this NATO summit. We're going to have much more coming in from the ground in Ukraine.

Our special coverage will continue. Stay with us.

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DON LEMON, CNN HOST: All right, let's listen to the President Biden now. He's speaking and meeting with the president of the European Council.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... NATO meeting and the heads of state, which took place today.And I fortunately am able to attend two other conferences.

But my point is unity, unity. And the very thing that Putin has tried to do from the beginning, and I have been saying this since my days as vice president of the United States, is to break up NATO, break up NATO.

He'd rather face 30 independent countries than 30 united countries, and with the United States of America. Not a joke. I'm being deadly earnest. I believe that's been his intention from the very, very beginning.

And so what I want to thank Michel for is -- Michel -- is that the whole idea of the unity of Europe as a whole, not just NATO, the G7, and this organization really matters. It's the single most important thing that we can do to stop this guy who's, in our country, we believe has already committed war crimes.

But thank you very much for the time and attention.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: President Biden there meeting with Charles Michel, president of the European Council, speaking now about China as well, his conversations with President Xi of China. We will, of course, follow the developments from Brussels as they happen throughout the day.

Let's move on now with more developments, this one from Ukraine's President Vladimir Zelenskyy today. He told NATO leaders that he needs just 1 percent of their firepower for the war against Russia.

Now, at the same summit today, Zelenskyy accused Russia of deploying white phosphorus in Ukraine, now the use of which is either banned or restricted under international law, depending on where and how its deployed.

All right, we expected to hear from the president there, but we also know some regional governors have reported similar claims. The U.S. State Department tells CNN it was aware of the reports, but said it was not in a position to confirm them.

CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen joins me now from Kyiv.

So, Fred, what is happening where you are right now?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's so interesting to hear the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, speak there to those NATO leaders today and talk about the fact that he believes that he needs just 1 percent of the NATO -- the money that they're spending on arms to basically tackle the Russian military that is in this country right now.

But, right now, from what I can tell you, Victor, there is a massive battle going on around Kyiv. As we speak, we're hearing a lot of outgoing artillery, which is obviously coming from the Ukrainian side. Today, we had a massive firefight that was also going on as well for an extended period of time.

So, as you can see, a lot of those pleas that are coming from the Ukrainian president, Vladimir Zelenskyy, they are due to the fact they are obviously confronted with this massive Russian force here around the Ukrainian capital, but, of course, then also in other places in Ukraine as well.

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And the Ukrainians are saying, look, we have been able to keep these forces at bay. But they're also -- of course, there are no illusions about the fact that this is an ongoing battle. There is a lot of attrition among the Ukrainian forces, and they say they badly need new weapons, more weapons, and especially weapons that will help them keep Russian air force planes at bay as well.

You're absolutely right, of course. He did mention what he claimed was a phosphorus attack, and another regional governor also saying that as well, that that took place in a town called Rubizhne here in Ukraine, obviously a big claim. Very difficult to see whether or not there's anything to back that up. But, certainly, that would be a big escalation if the Russians were

now using that and, of course, especially if they were using that against people on the ground here in this country, Victor.

LEMON: And, of course, there's an important question, what will Belarus do?

Ukraine's armed forces say Russia's transferring weapons and other military equipment to Belarus. Does this answer the question of whether Belarusian forces will be joining Russian forces?

PLEITGEN: Well, I don't think that that question is answered yet.

And I don't -- and so far, from what the U.S. is saying, they say that, right now, the preparations on the part of the Belarusians don't necessarily indicate that it's imminent that Belarusian forces could be joining the Russian forces here, that, of course, taking part in this invasion of Ukraine.

And that information that you're talking about, about the weapons being deployed by the Russians to Belarus, the additional weapons, because, of course, they already do have a lot of hardware in Belarus, the Ukrainians actually believe that that is due to the fact that Ukrainians are being so successful.

They believe that the Russians are being held up, especially here in Kyiv. And one thing we have to keep in mind if we look at Belarus -- it's great that we have that map up right now -- is that the quickest way to get to capital, Kyiv, which is, of course, one of the main front lines for the Russians, is through Belarus.

So the Ukrainians believe that they have held the Russians up, that they need to resupply. And that's why they're bringing those weapons into Belarus. Of course, that could spell some pretty bad news here for the Ukrainian capital in the next couple of weeks, in the next couple of days, if the Russians do receive reinforcements through Belarus.

By the way, Victor, the Ukrainians also saying that they believe that the Russia is also massively deploying more weapons to Crimea as well to obviously fortify that invasion that they have in the south of Ukraine as well, Victor.

LEMON: Well, let's head south.

Ukrainian forces say that they have destroyed a large Russian ship in the southeast at this Russian-occupied port of Berdyansk. You spent some time in that city. What's your understanding of how big a deal this would be?

PLEITGEN: It's a massive deal.

And if you look at the video that we're seeing right now of the ports in Berdyansk, you can see that ship just completely up in flames. There seemed to be some secondary explosions as well. If you look closely, look at the front of that ship, you can see that that's an amphibious landing ship, because they have actually opened two doors on the front through which then, if they do a beach landing, tanks come out.

So that is definitely amphibious landing ships. I have actually seen those in action as well with a Russian military. And they can carry a lot of vehicles. They can carry a lot of cargo. They're not necessarily ships that would shoot at land or that would have massive cannons. They just have some weapons to defend themselves.

But, of course, logistically, it's extremely important. And it may have also destroyed a lot of Russian military hardware. And, Victor, from having been in that port not too long ago -- I think it was in November of last year -- that port is not very big. It's sort of a mixed military and civilian port.

The Ukrainians wanted to upgrade that port before the war began. That effort hadn't gone very far just yet. But having a ship like that lay there now -- and you can see those secondary explosions there right now -- that really could impede the Russians' logistics in trying to reinforce the troops that they have fighting in that area, because that ship will just block large parts of that port now laying there, possibly still on fire, but certainly impossible to move away, Victor.

LEMON: Another success for the Ukrainians.

What do you know about this -- the fighting that's happening now in the town of Izyum?

PLEITGEN: Yes.

I mean, there's a lot of fighting that is going on there, like in so many other places. And we can see some of that video there right now of some of that epic destruction. And, of course, one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that, with all of that, I mean, you can just imagine the suffering of the civilians that are on the ground there.

And you know that video like this and images like this are things that, in the worst days of Syria and some of the worst battles there, those are the kinds of things that you would have seen. And this is something, obviously, that's progressed in the war here so quickly.

There's so much destruction that's happened so fast, and just these horrifying images, as, of course, more and more people are killed, and more and more people are displaced as well here in this country, Victor.

LEMON: Fred Pleitgen for us.

Fred, thank you so much.

So, some big headlines, big developments out of this news conference from President Biden. He says that he believes that Russia should be removed from the G20.

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