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Biden Meets With European Union Council President; Ukraine: Russian Ship Destroyed In Port Of Berdyansk. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 24, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of a brand-new hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell in New York.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Don Lemon in Lviv, Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Moments ago, President Biden met with leaders of the European Union in Brussels as part of today's historic emergency summit. The president is rallying the West behind a strategy to confront Vladimir Putin after Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

During a news conference last hour, President Biden praised the West unity and support of Ukraine, and he said that Russia should no longer be a part of the G20, a collection of the world's top economies.

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REPORTER: Do you think that Russia needs to be removed from the G20?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On the latter point, my answer yes. That depends on the G20. I'd -- that was raised today, and I raised the possibility if that can't be done, if Indonesia and others do not agree, then we should, in my view, ask to have both Ukraine be able to attend the meetings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Exactly a month after the Russian invasion began, President Biden is now convening with the leaders of all 30 NATO nations, the leading council of the European Union, and the G7 today. And he will be meeting with refugees in Poland tomorrow, at least he hinted at that.

LEMON: Uh-huh. And, Victor, in conjunction with this trip, the U.S. unveiled its latest actions in response to the Russian invasion including this, a plan for the U.S. to accept as many as 100,000 refugees, a pledge of another $1 billion in humanitarian aid for those impacted, and a new round of sanctions against 300 members of the Russian state Duma. Now here in Ukraine there are more signs that Ukrainians are fighting

back for territory. The mayor of Kherson, which had been Russian occupied, hoisted this enormous flag over the hall. At the same time, the onslaught continues. This is a scene at a shopping mall, this is in Kharkiv. A deadly Russian missile strike hit a location where people had been waiting to receive humanitarian aid according to the regional governor.

Let's bring in now, CNN senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly. He's traveling with the president in Brussels.

Phil, so walk us through more of what the president laid out in response to the first month of this invasion.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, if there's one overarching message to take away and one overarching goal from the president on down coming into this kind of day of diplomatic sprinting through three different summits with all of the critical Western allies it's that unity is by far the most important thing. And while that sounds easy or simple enough on paper, given the fact each country has its own domestic equities, its own economies to work with, and given Russia's critical piece serving as a critical piece on the energy side of things for many of those European economies, keeping that group together, unified not just for the near term but the long term, is considered critical in the response to if not deter -- which they certainly didn't, if not stop, which they certainly haven't, then at least make it a strategic failure over the long term.

So, that was the overarching goal of the day. I think the president laid that out very clearly. But the president also making clear that, as you noted, he wants to do anything he can to continue to isolate Russia and that includes in his personal view kicking him out of the G20. It has echoes of what the G8 did and now G7 in 2014 when Russia moved to annex the Crimean peninsula. Obviously, membership is slightly different, more varied, more diverse when it comes to the G20 as well.

But the president also weighed in on the threat of a chemical attack. It's been an issue U.S. officials, Western officials, have been grappling with the last several weeks, the concern growing over the course of the last several days. The president not detailing any intelligence that he may have seen but making clear if there is a chemical attack, there will be a response.

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As to what that response would be, the president said the nature of the response would be guided by the nature of the attack itself. I think overall what you hear from the president, what you hear from his team, is you laid out the sanctions. Obviously, they're being expanded. The efforts on military assistance, the efforts on NATO posture in Eastern European countries expanded, growing exponentially over the course of the last several weeks.

It's the humanitarian piece I think is the most interesting. You've heard from Poland and the like that they are overwhelmed at this point. Millions of Ukrainians have departed that country in fear over the course of the last four weeks, and there has been both public and a lot of private requests for the U.S. to do more.

The president trying to step into that void now. 100,000 Ukrainians would be allowed to come to the United States, more than $1 billion in humanitarian assistance. The president hinting at meeting with refugees tomorrow when he goes to Poland to see it with his own eyes. That is going to be a really key component in the days and weeks ahead given the fact the U.S. and/or European counterparts, those officials, don't see any near term into this.

However, they believe that as long as this goes, the most important element, whether it's humanitarian assistance, lethal assistance, whether it's the sanctions package, is maintaining unity going forward and that is certainly something the president believes that at least he got out of today -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Phil Mattingly for us there in Brussels -- Phil, thank you very much.

CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour is also live at the NATO summit.

Christiane, we know that President Biden hinted he wants to meet with refugees when he goes to Poland. There have been questions if he'll actually meet with President Zelenskyy.

If he goes to the border, what impact do you think that would have? And could Putin see that as an escalation?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: No, I don't think an escalation for the U.S. president to visit a NATO country and to visit refugees. I think that would be, if he does, something totally natural and something that you could understand on a human level for sure.

And to reiterate, of course, the countries surrounding Ukraine have taken the bulk of the refugees that have left, some 3 million or so, so far, in just one month of this war. There are 10 million, according to the United Nations, displaced. Most of them internally trying to go from one bombed out city to a safer one.

But countries, even the poor ones on the borders, have taken in so many refugees. Europe has given a real carte-blanche to them, given all sorts of residency, work permit, health benefits for an indefinite period of time while this war goes on.

So I think that is such a huge component to what we're seeing happening on the ground in Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about the headline question of the day for NATO members. If Putin were to use chemical, biological, nuclear weapons in Ukraine, what would be the response? The president said there would be a response. The nature of the response would depend upon the nature of the use. G7 leaders warned Russia against the use. You spoke with the spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov, does it

appear -- are there any indications that these warnings have any influence over whether Putin would make that call?

AMANPOUR: Look, you know, Peskov got a lot of play when I tried to get him to rule out the use of a tactical weapon since it was President Putin who started putting this thing on the table from the very beginning, warning of the worst consequences you've seen in history if anyone tried to interfere with what he was up to in Ukraine.

So, Dmitry Peskov did not rule it out, talk about only if there was an existential threat to Russia, what is an existential threat to Russia we could not get that out of him. But certainly here, at this summit, NATO has reaffirmed any attack on any of them by conventional or unconventional weapons would trigger an immediate full NATO response.

When I tried to press on whether that would be the same if there was an attack of, let's say, chemical weapons in Ukraine, I did not get an answer. They're trying to maintain ambiguity around that. They're not going to tell us what they're going to do. They want to keep that strategic warning to Putin. So, I think you will never get an answer on what they'll do.

As President Biden said the nature of the response will be measured by the nature of the attack, but it is very worrying in the fact they even have to deal with that and discuss that at a summit like this in 2022, it speaks volumes about the unpredictability and the difficulty of this battlefield.

Having said that, of course, it's probably only because the Ukrainians are doing so well comparatively against much more powerful military.

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And when I asked Secretary General Stoltenberg just a few minutes ago, he put a lot of that down not just to the heart and patriotism to the Ukrainians but the training that NATO has given Ukrainians since Russia first invaded them in 2014 and the amount of weaponry and defensive methods and means that NATO has supplied in the last month alone.

BLACKWELL: Yeah. And Stoltenberg also said that it's unlikely that there will be a full-fledged war between NATO and Russia, in the conversation you had with him.

Christiane Amanpour, thank you.

President Biden said Vladimir Putin had previously indicated his belief that the NATO alliance would not remain united in its response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The president told reporters today that Putin was banking on NATO being split.

Instead, the Western alliance has said it will strengthen NATO troops in key eastern European countries and will reinforce defense systems against chemical and nuclear weapons amid continued Russian aggression in Ukraine.

Joining me now is former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Kay Bailey Hutchison. She's also a senior adviser at the Center from Strategic and International Studies.

Madam Ambassador, thank you for being with me.

I want to start here with your reaction to what we heard from the president saying there will be a response and that it will depend upon the nature of the use of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. What was your interpretation of that?

KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, I thought he was very careful to say that we would respond in kind. And I thought that was a calibrated but correct answer to that question because if Putin knows that whatever the he does is also going to come back to his country, that is a warning and most certainly something that we will have to back up if he makes such a really erratic decision. I think that it is so important that all of our allies have discussed this eventuality, and that there is both a plan for some defense for the Ukraine if, in fact, some chemical weapon does come in, but also a retaliation. That is a very strong stand for a unified NATO and a message to Putin.

BLACKWELL: Live pictures on the screen, Madam Ambassador, President Biden meeting with the European Council. He was there at their regular meeting. So, that continues on one side of the screen. Let me continue our conversation. You used the word eventuality that biological weapons will be used. It is your expectation that President Putin will order the deployment of those weapons, at least one of them in Ukraine?

HUTCHISON: No, not my expectation at all. What my hope is, but hope is not a plan, that Putin would hear what the unified response of the U.S. and NATO is to some eventuality in which this would happen. And if he knows he is going to have a retaliation and, in fact, I will say there was a cyber attack earlier this year that was attributed to Russia, it was never said that there was a response but there was a strong indication there was a response that was never attributed but yet did affect Russia in the same way that they had affected a cyberattack in the U.S.

So, I do think we are set for this and that Putin should know that follow-through can and will be done.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about China. NATO today warned China against economic or military support of Russia in this war against Ukraine. That has happened but there is this political support in Chinese state media. There is the misinformation, disinformation.

China officially is not calling this a war. They supported a resolution that eventually failed at the U.N. today.

How can the West put some pressure on or significant warnings for China to keep them from taking that next step of making good on this no limit relationship and partnership that they've articulated between Russia and China and supporting them in Ukraine?

HUTCHISON: I want to say that is the key question. It is the right question to be asking right now, and I know that was discussed internally at this NATO summit.

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What do we do about China and it's important we do it in a unified way because I think President Biden's point that China should know that their economy depends on interaction with the U.S. and Europe not with Russia. And that's where our sanctions can be very important and I think it is the key.

And I think the other thing you asked, what can we do? The G7, Russia should be kicked out of the G7. Some of the members of the G7 --

BLACKWELL: G20.

HUTCHISON: -- objecting to that but it is very important we draw a red line that Russia not attend a G7 meeting where we would share economic information.

BLACKWELLL: I'm sure you meant the Gg20, Russia kicked out of the G7 -- the G8 after 2014.

HUTCHISON: I'm sorry, I did -- I certainly did.

BLACKWELL: It's fine.

HUTCHISON: That would include India as well and that's exactly what I meant, and thank you for correcting me because China and India and not allowing a meeting with Russia to sit there at the economic table is a very important message.

BLACKWELL: We already heard from at least one member, the Australian PM who said that would be a step too far to sit across from him. President Biden says Russia should be kicked out of the G20.

Ambassador Kay Bailey Hutchison, thank you.

Much more ahead on our breaking news. Ukrainian forces say they've destroyed a large Russian warship in the southern port city. We're live in Kyiv, next.

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LEMON: Don Lemon live from Lviv now.

Ukrainian officials claimed success in the Russian occupied port city of Berdyansk. Video shows fires at the port, along with a series of explosions. Ukrainian armed forces say a large Russian warship was destroyed and two other ships were damaged.

I want to get straight to CNN senior international correspondent Sam Kiley. He joins me now from Kyiv.

So, Sam, what is the significance of the counterattack in this port city?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's an extremely bold and surprising military move. I think that is what is indicative of how the Ukrainians have surprised the Russians, surprised their allies in NATO that currently discussing how much more aid to give to the Ukrainians, a great demonstration of how a little can go a long way. Striking at a Russian warship, setting it on fire, reportedly large numbers of secondary explosions, explosions, don, caused by the detonation of ammunition, fuel or both onboard.

Now, this was a town, a port city, to the southwest coast. Somehow the Ukrainians were able to strike with a missile. Now it doesn't affect things strategically, but it will rattle the Russians, and they have been able to use anti-tank weapons to shoot smaller vessels. I've seen videos of them doing a similar thing off the Azov Coast.

Now, what does matter is the town of Mariupol, which we know is under bitter siege with huge numbers of civilians trapped in that location, and yet notwithstanding the fighter and the resistance there by Ukrainian forces they're also able to conduct this kind of hit-and-run move, very characteristic of more of their land operations all the way up including here in the capital Kyiv -- Don.

LEMON: The governor of Kharkiv describing the situation in this city and I quote here as stable, a stable situation, even though he said, and I will give you some numbers, there have been 44 shellings, 140 rocket attacks in just the past day. We also know about six people were killed earlier while lining up to receive humanitarian aid.

And this is what the governor is now considering normal?

KILEY: You took the words right out of my mouth, Don, the idea a normal situation could be a situation in which civilians queuing for food outside a shopping center, queuing for food aid. They weren't tying to buy it. They were simply trying to be (AUDIO GAP) killed, six of them in a multiple rocket launch attack.

Now this is, as we discussed before, an aerial weapon. It's a very untargeted, unguided missile system. Many rockets fired simultaneously with the deliberate intent of killing large numbers of people over a large area of land. And clearly, that was the intent yet again in Kharkiv, yet again an attack against civilians, the new normal for a city that is 75 percent Russian speaking, 25 miles from the Russian border. The heart, in many ways, the past of the old intellectual life of the Soviet Union, a place of 40 universities, now the local administration said over 1,000, Don, residential dwellings and buildings and apartments have been destroyed over the last month of war -- Don.

LEMON: Yeah, and that's a lot. Russian forces continue to attack their attack on Kyiv today, but Ukrainians are pushing back to regain that territory, Sam, in some suburbs around the capital. What are you seeing? KILEY: Yeah, half of that. The Ukrainians have done a remarkable job

really, again, surprising people with these sometimes hit-and-run guerrilla type tactics and we've seen this the last few days very heavy bombardment of Russian positions in the northwest particularly around the town of Irpin where yesterday they claimed to have captured some 80 percent of the territory using, among other things, multiple rocket launching systems.

This morning, the Ukrainians reporting the Russians had struck back with the same sorts of weapons hitting civilian areas, of course. In the east, we spent most of the day in the east. That's in the area known as Brovary, on the right bank of the Dnipro River, that had been two weeks ago, what was assumed to be a Russian regrouping effort to try to push into the city.

Again, the Ukrainians believe they have pushed the Russians back. There have been signs of this emerging is there is now a further troop buildup, more logistics, more armor, Russian armor, appearing inside Belarusian territory and continued talk of the Belarusians joining the fight on the side of the Russians and that could be disastrous for the Ukrainians. They are fighting hard. They are fighting well using the new NATO weapons but they do not have an infinity of troops, Don.

LEMON: Yes, so Belarusian soldiers would help the Russians.

Sam Kiley, thank you. I appreciate it.

Victor, that's the latest from the region. I will throw it back to you in New York.

BLACKWELL: All right. Don, thank you.

Let's discuss with CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel Leighton, good to see you. Let's pick up where Don and Sam left off. The role of this movement of weapons, other military equipment, into Belarus, what's that indicate to you?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it indicates to me, Victor, it's possible preparation for either Russian troops to move into Belarus, which I don't think is the case but it could happen, and then move forward from there into Ukraine or for Belarusian troops to use that equipment and move forward into Ukraine.

Either one of these really means that the theater of war has expanded a bit to include the border area between Belarus and Ukraine and we could see the Belarusian or Russian troops going through Belarus being used to either go again toward Kyiv or going toward the western part of Ukraine such as Lviv, where Don is right now.

BLACKWELL: Today, President Zelenskyy told NATO leaders through this virtual address that Russian forces deployed phosphorous in one town there and people were killed, including children. What's the significance of that? Is it considered a chemical weapon? No? LEIGHTON: It depends on how it's used, Victor. It can be used as a

smokescreen, and that's a legitimate use in military conflict, but if it's used to target people, it is actually considered illegal, and it is -- because it does burn and it leaves some very serious burns on victims, it can potentially kill them affecting the internal organs, so it is not only a dangerous weapon but a very lethal weapon. And that kind of use is banned under international law.

BLACKWELL: Okay. We saw this video of a Russian warship near Berdyansk. Officials say they took out this ship. Any win for them is a good one, obviously, but what's the strategic value, do you think, of what we're watching now taking out this ship at this location?

LEIGHTON: So this location is actually pretty close to Mariupol. It's on the Sea of Azov, and it kind of makes it difficult for the Russians to move in and out of the port of Berdyansk, and that's significant because it is one of the areas they're using as a staging area to get the land bridge we've talked about before.

So anything that stymies or hinders the Russian efforts in the south is good news for Ukraine because it prevents or is working to preventing the creation of that land bridge or any potential moves into areas to the west such as Odessa. It's a very important effort by -- tactical effort by the Ukrainians and certainly spectacular to watch to say the least.

BLACKWELL: Certainly spectacular to watch. This video remarkable.

Let me ask you for your take on the inability of the chairman of the joint chiefs, the secretary of defense, to be able to get their Russian counterparts, on the phone. They haven't spoken one to one since weeks before the invasion.

LEIGHTON: Yes, it sounds like the North Koreans that often don't pick up the line, the military connection we have with them on the demilitarized zone in Korea. In this case, silence is not golden, victor.