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Easing European Dependence on Russian Energy; Biden Visits Troops; Devastation inside Mariupol; Philip Breedlove is Interviewed about Ukraine Ian Brzezinski is Interviewed about Europe. Aired 9:00- 9:30a ET

Aired March 25, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:20]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Any moment now, President Biden will arrive here in Poland, a place that has become a temporary home for more than 2 million refugees fleeing the war in Ukraine.

Here in Poland, the president will learn more about the plight of those displaced and will face questions on what will happen to them over the long-term.

All this as Ukrainian officials tell the United States they are facing potential weapons shortages and they need at least 500 more javelins, 500 more stingers, per day.

Good morning and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. We're reporting live today from Warsaw, Poland.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We are so glad you're joining us on this consequential day.

In Ukraine, intense fighting in several cities again overnight with Ukrainian forces making gains east of the capital. The U.K. defense ministry confirms Ukrainian forces have been able to retake towns and defensive positions up to 21 miles east of Kyiv. But Russia's defense ministry is claiming its own victories there, saying a cruise missile strike destroyed the largest of the remaining fuel depots in Ukraine.

We are also seeing new heart-shattering video out of Mariupol this morning. Mourners burying the dead, burying their loved ones. This is right near a playground. They are placing wooden crosses on the graves.

And local officials in that city now say some 300 people, including innocent women and children, were killed in the Russian attack on that theater that was being used as a shelter just nine days ago. Much more on that in a moment.

Wolf.

BLITZER: It's really so sad.

We're following, Poppy, all these late-breaking developments as only CNN can.

Here with me in Warsaw is our chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and CNN's Barbara Starr is joining us from the Pentagon.

Kaitlan, as we await for the president to land here in Poland in just moments, give us the big picture a little bit. We're going to hear from the president speaking about refugees, speaking about Poland, the critically important NATO ally, speaking about the horrible situation that's unfolding in Ukraine.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, you'll see another side of this invasion and what it has caused and the havoc that it has wreaked here in Europe today from President Biden and tomorrow as he wraps up his trip here.

Of course, yesterday was very focused on diplomacy and this effort to project unity with other NATO allies against Russia to try to punish them for this invasion, even more this invasion of Ukraine that has now extended into a month now, Wolf.

But President Biden is on his way here to Poland He is going to Rzeszow first. That is where he's going to get a humanitarian briefing on the effort that you've seen underway here because of this crisis, this refugee crisis that has been caused by this invasion. Obviously, over 3.5 million people have been displaced from their homes in Ukraine because of this Russian invasion. And over 2 million of those have come here to Poland alone.

Now, not all of them are staying here, but officials believe many of them will. And so that is the other side of this effort. And the Polish president has asked for help with this given they have taken in this huge influx of refugees that are now living here in Poland, working here, going to school and trying to re-adjust their lives following this invasion.

And so the other aspect of President Biden's day today is meeting with members of the 82nd Airborne Division. And that comes as they are trying to bolster the NATO presence here in eastern Europe, on this flank. Many of these nations that border Ukraine or border Russia that are obviously concerned by the Russian aggression and concerned for their own nations given you've seen warnings from Ukrainian President Zelenskyy that he doesn't think Russia is stopping with Ukraine.

That will be the focus of President Biden's day today. We should note that the White House has just confirmed he will come face to face with Ukrainian refugees tomorrow. And he's also set to deliver that they are billing as a major address, Wolf.

BLITZER: The -- Air Force One, the president's plane, has just landed in Rzeszow. It's about 60 miles or so from the Ukrainian border. The president is going to be spending some time there, and then he's going to be moving on. Eventually, later in the day, he'll be joining -- he'll be coming here to Warsaw to spend the night. He's going to be meeting with the Polish president as well, Andrzej Duda, the Polish president. Kaitlan, we're learning that President Biden and the European

Commission chief earlier, just about an hour or two or so ago, they announced this joint task force meant to help wean Europe from its critically important dependence on Russian oil and gas.

What more do we know about that? This is a significant -- potentially significant development.

[09:05:01]

COLLINS: It is. At the beginning it may be more symbolic than significant, but it is this major effort that the United States is making to try to make Europe less dependent on Russian energy. Obviously, that's been a critical lifeline for the Russian economy. And so before he left Brussels this morning, President Biden announced this joint effort to try, with the United States, to get more liquefied natural gas to Europe. They want to change the trajectory of this basically and try to help wean them off of this dependency that they have on Russian gas. And that is going to obviously be a struggle. Something that President Biden noted. But they want to help cut off Putin from what they say is helping fund his war machine.

Listen to what the president said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to take some time to adjust gas supply chains and infrastructure, as is built the last decade -- for the last decade. So we're going to have to make sure that families in Europe can get through this winter and the next while we're building an infrastructure for a diversified, resilient and clean energy future.

I know that eliminating Russian gas will have costs for Europe. But it's not only the right thing to do from a moral standpoint, it's going to put us on a much stronger, strategic footing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, the president there noting the difficulty that this is going to have. That's something European leaders have wrestled with since this invasion began.

Obviously, Wolf, natural gas is the biggest challenge. It is much harder to import. That is a real struggle that they're facing. And it is going to take at least several years likely for this consumption to change, for this dependency to change. But that is a broader effort that the White House and that these European leaders say they are willing to embark on, Wolf.

BLITZER: It's really a long-term, very, very significant indeed.

Barbara Starr, you're over at the Pentagon.

We just saw Air Force One land in Rzeszow. In addition to getting a humanitarian update on this crisis that's going on, the president will also meet with troops, U.S. troops, from the 82nd Airborne Division, who have been deployed, at least temporarily, to Poland, a key NATO ally.

Tell us about this deterrent mission that's underway, because I can assure you, based on my conversations with senior Polish officials, they're very nervous, God forbid this war in Ukraine could spill over into Poland, a NATO ally, and that would mean all 29 other NATO allies would directly be involved.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this is part of what the NATO alliance and the U.S., along with all members of NATO, are now doing, beefing up their military presence across the eastern flank. The 82nd Airborne is central to the U.S. part of this for deterrence against the Russians, and reassurance of the allies and, of course, in Poland, to send the message to the Polish government that one of the most elite U.S. military units is there and ready.

The 82nd Airborne has been in just about every combat operation since World War II. They do not expect combat here, but they are training and increasing their readiness, we're told, ready at any time if they were needed for any contingency, and if they were needed if the refugee crisis became worse and the Polish government asked for assistance.

But it is important, this will be a visual signal today. This will be the American commander in chief meeting with one of the most elite units in the U.S. military. The 82nd has the mission every day of being ready to deploy from Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, within 18 hours, anywhere in the world, for a contingency. That is what they are routinely ready to do at all times.

Now, the U.S. has been very careful about showing that U.S. troops are there, but also limiting public access, limiting media access to all of this. There's concern that it not appear escalatory to the Russians. That was in the beginning, when they deployed several weeks ago but now much more open. And, don't forget, Poland is a major route for those weapons being shipped in to Ukraine to help those forces fight against Russia.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, I think it's not just symbolic, but it sends an important message that the president of the United States is going to be meeting with members -- troops from the 82nd Airborne Division, who have been temporarily -- repeat, temporarily deployed here to Poland and elsewhere in eastern Europe. The NATO allies, thousands more troops have come over the past month or so to this area. Very, very potentially significant.

Barbara, we'll get back to you.

Kaitlan, we'll get back to you as well.

Let's go to John Berman. He's got a lot going on over in Ukraine.

John, Ukrainian forces, they are a month into this war, holding off Russia, but Russia still unleashing devastating, brutal, horrible attacks across the region.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Wolf, it's so true.

[09:10:01]

Every day that this continues, it comes at a staggering cost to the Ukrainian people. And we do have some new video just in to CNN that shows immense damage to the theater of Mariupol that was being used as a bomb shelter for civilians. This was struck by a Russian air strike last Wednesday. City officials now report 300 people are believed to have died in that attack. Three hundred people in that attack.

The next video we're going to play for you shows the moments immediately after the bomb as people tried to escape the destruction.

Watch this.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You can see people covered in dust and debris. Holes in the walls as people try it make their way down a staircase to leave the heavily damaged building.

Remember, the word "children" was written outside, clearly in letters that you could see from the air. And now we're learning at least 300 people killed in that devastating attack.

Want to go to CNN's senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen, who's on the ground in Kyiv.

And, Fred, it just -- it just -- it's really upsetting to see that damage, to see the suffering of the people as they try to get out. One of them even said that one of the bombs hit the area where people were going to get water.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're absolutely right, John, it certainly is devastating video and very traumatizing video as well that we're seeing there for the first time from inside that theater that got hit in Mariupol.

And I think one of the really devastating things also about this death toll that we're hearing now is that the city council, the municipal council there in Mariupol, which, of course, is barely functioning because that city is under siege and continues to be hit by Russian air power and Russian rockets, is that they say that they base that on having spoken to people that managed to get out of that theater because they themselves can't actually send any sort of rescue crews into that -- you know, it's been about a week since that theater was hit -- simply because they don't have any, because all of the emergency services in that city are not working anymore because of the devastating situation. And there's people who are trying to get there with their bare hands. There were people who were trapped inside that place for such a very long time.

Now, the authorities there are saying they believe, as you put it, that more than 300 people were killed. They believe maybe 200 survived inside that theater. And, obviously, people trying to get out somehow, any way, after that strike took place. But, of course, as we've been reporting, John, over the past days since that incident took place, you know, many of them were simply trapped under that rubble. Many of them were trapped inside that building because all the ways in and out of that building were destroyed by that devastating strike.

And I think one of the things, you know, that's really tough to listen to also is that -- is that man who was narrating that video saying that he says it struck right in the middle of that theater, John.

BERMAN: Fred, you've been doing such great reporting in Kyiv. The last couple of days there has been a curfew there. You've been doing it from inside. But now I see you're out on the streets in front of what appears to be an anti-tank barrier. I don't know how much you can show us or tell us about where you are, but what's the situation there, especially as the Ukrainians try to go about these counteroffensives?

PLEITGEN: Yes, you're absolutely right. I mean it is an interesting situation right now here in Kyiv. And I'm actually right in the middle of the city center. You can see indeed there is a tank barrier right behind me. There's some checkpoints behind me as well.

But just to give you an idea of how close we are to the city center, the Maidan, the Freedom Square, is actually right over here. So that is, obviously, right in the heart of the -- of Kyiv.

And I think it shows, John, that the city, of course, is still very much on a war footing as the folks here have fortified it, they've put up checkpoints in many places because they say they are not going to allow the Russian army to come into the city.

At the same time, you do have those gains that have been made by the Ukrainian military, both towards the northwest of the city, we keep talking about that suburb of Irpin, which the Ukrainians say is 80 percent under their control but is still being shelled by the Russians, and then also a town to the east of the capital of Kyiv, where the Ukrainians are saying they took that place, about 35 miles to the east. And that's a pretty important move for them because they're not only trying to push the Russian forces back, but also trying to encircle some of those Russian forces because, as we've learned, of course, also from the U.S., is they say that logistics are a real problem for the Russians and it's quite difficult for themselves to be resupplied.

At the same time, we had air raid sirens here I'd say about, you know, 30, 45 minutes ago. So you can see that the Russians, obviously, still operating their air power around here.

[09:15:01]

And they also say -- they claim that they hit a major fuel depot. In fact, the largest one that's apparently still operating here, south of the capital of Kyiv. And there was some video that came out, some billowing smoke coming from that place. So, the Russians certainly very much still hitting this city, but at the same time the Ukrainians say they are pushing them back, John. BERMAN: Frederik Pleitgen, on the streets of Kyiv, amazingly traffic

going behind you, right near Maidan, where -- which I haven't seen, frankly, in the last few weeks. Really interesting to see what going on there. Thank you so much, Fred. Stay safe.

So, as Ukrainian forces retake territory east of Kyiv, right where Fred is, a soldier who captured a Russian anti -- a Russian tank posted a message to social media about the counteroffensive.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The operation has been a complete success. We decisively repelled the enemy. According to preliminary data, there were about 200 Russian troops. Some of them are in the ground. While others escaped. Three tanks and nine BPM. There is one of them here, which is now ours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, joining us now it talk about all of this is retire General Philip Breedlove. He is a former NATO supreme allied commander for Europe.

And, General, let's just begin with the reporting we just got from our Fred Pleitgen on the ground in Kyiv.

There are multiple ways and multiple intelligence reports that have told us how much success the Ukrainians are having in protecting Kyiv and how many roadblocks, literal roadblocks and logistics issues Russia is running into in and around Kyiv.

Do you believe that the success the Ukrainian forces are having, particularly there, will continue?

GEN. PHILIP BREEDLOVE, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): I do.

And thanks for having me on this morning.

And the successes are not only on the east side, as you have shown. They're pushing them back on the east. But in what is now being called the Bucha (ph) pocket to the west, also near Irpin, as you were talking about earlier, a large contingent of Russian forces are now in danger of being surrounded by Ukrainians and cut off.

And so the Ukrainians are making some really smart moves, both to the east and to the west of Kyiv. And this is going to be a challenging time for the Russians there, as you have pointed out, because of some of their very drastic, logistic issues.

BERMAN: Every day this goes on, General, more Ukrainian civilians are being killed. Innocent civilians. We see more pictures of it. .We saw pictures of it from that Mariupol theater moments ago. And I do believe we've got some new images in from Kharkiv, in the far east, where there was this humanitarian aid line, a line of civilians waiting for humanitarian aid, right in the city, hit by a rocket attack or some kind of attack, right in broad daylight. This is a humanitarian aid station.

We understand that six people may have been killed there. And just, General, just how do you explain these clearly civilian locations, civilian targets, with just no military value being hit?

BREEDLOVE: There is no explanation. This is a war crime, and we're watching it play out. And the Russians need to be held accountable. Just yesterday at Mariupol, a relief column going in was attacked and the relief people and their buses and things were taken. And now we see yet another humanitarian corridor or line or relief station attacked. This is happening all the time. And, in the end, we're going to have to hold Russia accountable for this.

HARLOW: General, to build off what John just -- and that was the first time I had seen that video. It's just so -- it's so jaw dropping.

You have warned, General, that the more frustrated Putin gets by all of these setbacks, that he clearly did not expect, the more dangerous he gets. So, what does that mean for civilians like those who were waiting in line for aid?

BREEDLOVE: It's going to get worse. It's going to get worse and worse. Mr. Putin has been unable to meet Ukrainian forces in these big force on force battles, which he really wants. And the Ukrainians are fighting this wonderful skirmishing rear attack, ambush kind of fight that frustrates the military advance of Russia. And believe it frustrates Mr. Putin because his army is not accomplishing his goals and he gets more and more dangerous every day.

And when they can't fight the Ukrainian troops, they are going to fight and kill Ukrainian civilians, as you have seen.

[09:20:04]

The risk is going up every day because of the frustration of Putin and his army.

HARLOW: General Philip Breedlove, we appreciate your expertise on all of this. Thank you for your time.

And, John, we'll get right back to you in Lviv very, very soon.

Meantime, President Biden has just arrived in Poland where more than 2 million refugees have passed through since the war began. A significant trip for the president. Much more on that ahead.

And, also, the harrowing stories of the Ukrainians who have been forced to leave their homes amid Russian bombing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, TRANSLATOR: They dropped them on the hospitals, where the sick are, she says, on the bakeries where they make bread, so we don't have anything to eat, on the water facilities, so we don't have anything to drink.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:06]

BLITZER: The White House and the European Commission have now announced a new strategy aimed at depriving Russia of lots of money it makes selling off energy to Europe. A joint task force will help ease Europe's dependence on Russian oil and gas, with the U.S. pledging to make the surge -- to make sure the continent has enough supplies for the next two winters.

Let's discuss this and a lot more. Joining us now, Ian Brzezinski, he's the former deputy assistant secretary of defense for Europe and NATO policy.

Ian, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to discuss energy in a moment. But, first, how critical is this visit by President Biden here to Poland, which is clearly rising to the challenge of the refugee crisis while facing the potential threat of expanded Russian aggression?

IAN BRZEZINSKI, FORMER DEPUTY ASST. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR EUROPE AND NATO POLICY: It's a very important visit, Wolf. I mean, think about it, Poland today is playing the same operational role in the defense of western interests that Germany did during the Cold War. It, in many ways, is right on the front lines of defending freedom and security in Europe, the way Germany did during the Cold War.

So, the president's visit there is underscoring that importance, underscoring U.S. commitment to Poland and the alliance, and underscoring the centrality of Poland's role in this conflict.

BLITZER: Yes, Poland is emerging as a really critical NATO ally, right? It borders, of course, Ukraine.

What do you make, Ian, of President Biden's announcement today on energy? How much of a security issue is energy dependence on Russia for Europe and an advantage, for all practical purposes, for Putin? The Russians make hundreds of billions of dollars exporting this oil.

BRZEZINSKI: Well, it's very important. I mean let me just start by saying that President Biden's done a great job in coalescing the west into a unified coalition against Russian aggression. And they've been doing a lot to hit the Russian economy hard. But this is a gap in our strategy. The failure of the west to really cut off the purchase of Russian oil and gas. And it has to be addressed. I'm afraid a task force is quite not enough because it's going to take too long.

Russia, as you pointed out, sells -- sold in 2021 $489 billion to the west for oil and gas. That means a billion dollars a day. Still today the Russians are selling that oil and gas to western Europe, bringing in every week billions of dollars that's used to kind of sustain this war effort.

This is a moral shortcoming on the part of Europe and a strategic mistake on the part of the west. So, we need to accelerate our effort to close this gap in our sanctions policy.

BLITZER: Yes, it's really, really important.

At the truly extraordinary NATO summit in Brussels yesterday, I was there, flew here to Warsaw overnight, President Biden said he believes Russia should be removed from the G-20, or that Ukraine should allowed to attend and observe. What do you think? Should Russia be expelled? Should it be barred from attending the next G-20 summit in Indonesia next November?

BRZEZINSKI: I'd fully support that. There's no reason why Putin, when he's invading a democracy in Europe, should be standing with other countries shaping the world's economic order.

But, unfortunately, kicking Russia out of the G-20 may be easier said than done. It's an organization that operates on consensus. Its agenda is driven by the host nation this year, will be Indonesia. I think that as we work toward this goal, probably the best route is actually restructuring the G-20 along the lines my colleague at The Atlantic Council, Josh Lipsky has advocated, just moving toward a G-25 based on the economic rank of nations. And the way the Russian economy is headed, I don't think it will be able to stay within the top 25.

BLITZER: Yes, we'll see what happens on that front. We'll see what happens with some of the other members of the G-20, like China and India, for example, how they feel about removing Russia.

Ian Brzezinski, as usual, thank you so much for joining us.

BRZEZINSKI: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Poppy, let's get back to you.

HARLOW: Wolf, thank you. And what an important interview at this moment.

Also, at any moment, President Biden will be briefed on the humanitarian response to help civilians inside Ukraine and the growing flow of refugees out of Ukraine. Much more on that ahead.

Also keeping a close eye on markets here in the United States as the market -- Wall Street gets ready to open this Friday morning. Futures higher. Investors closely watching the war in Ukraine. Stocks have swung this week amid concerns about inflation and disruption to commodities. Stock futures hovered around break even in premarket trading after a -- the day ended higher on all major -- all three major indices yesterday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)