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Russia's War With Ukraine; Macron Warns Against Labeling Putin After Biden Calls Him A Butcher; Jackson Faces Tight Confirmation Vote As GOP Opposition Stiffens; U.N.: More Than 3.8M Refugees Have Fled Ukraine Since February. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired March 27, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:59:48]

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: U.S. think tank CSIS says these images show an undeclared North Korean missile base just miles from the Chinese border, a potential launch tight for ICBMs.

JOSEPH YUN, FORMER U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO NORTH KOREA: We need to understand there is no military solution.

RIPLEY: former U.S. Ambassador and special envoy to North Korea, Joseph Yun, believes the only option is for President Biden to take a page from the playbook of former President Trump and reach out directly to Kim Jong-un.

YUN: The longer this situation continues, more serious will the provocations be.

RIPLEY: He says diplomacy may be the only way to keep the missiles from flying, to keep America safe.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And I'm also joined by my colleague John Berman in Lviv, Ukraine.

More than a month into this invasion into Ukraine and now potential new stage of the conflict happening on the ground. Ukrainian officials say their forces have launched a series of new counterattacks liberating some villages in eastern Ukraine that had been taken over by Russian forces.

Meanwhile, Russia is carrying out new assaults on western Ukraine which has largely been spared from the bombing so far. Emergency crews finally putting out flames at a fuel depot in Lviv hit by a Russian air strike yesterday. And Russia's ministry of defense confirming the attacks on Lviv.

Ukrainians continue to flee the carnage. On Saturday alone, more than 5,200 escaping through humanitarian corridors. Most of them from the besieged city of Mariupol. The U.N. says more than 3.8 million refugees have now fled to other countries.

President Joe Biden now back in the U.S. after sending shockwaves at the end of his whirlwind European trip saying Russia's Vladimir Putin cannot remain in power. The White House quickly clarifying those remarks. We'll have more in a live report in just a bit.

But first, let's go to CNN's John Berman who is anchoring our coverage from Lviv, Ukraine. I'm so glad, John. It remains quiet. Quite the contrast to yesterday.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, indeed. Quiet here in the western part of Ukraine in Lviv. No strikes here today. The fires are out. But a lot of activity elsewhere.

And Ukrainians, the people you talk to on the streets, they're so proud of the efforts being made by the Ukrainian military. And the Ukrainian government continues to tout successes on the battlefield.

Joining me now here in Lviv is CNN's Salma Abdelaziz. And Salma look, we have no way to confirm all the information the Ukrainian government gives us, but they give us all these examples of towns that they've partially retaken. Russian equipment that they say they've destroyed.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. So we're seeing this counteroffensive that's been described as nimble, as creative, as tactical, able to make small gains. Take some villages back.

I think the most significant thing they've been able to do is really slow the advance of Russian forces, particularly in the east of the country.

In areas like Kharkiv, you know, that counteroffensives. They're trying to take back some suburbs. And also in the southeast of the country of -- north of Mariupol, also some small gains there.

You hear this word "stalemate" being thrown around. But this is not a stalemate. It's a war of attrition. What it means is the fault lines are shifting only slightly, but the people stuck in the middle on those front lines, the civilians, the residents, the homes -- they're being bombarded. They're caught between two sides. They have no relief.

And that's the fear here is as Russia starts to switch strategies using these long-range missiles to try to target places here in Lviv, hitting military infrastructure to try to cut supply routes, not able to advance but still shelling indiscriminately civilian areas, you have this grinding conflict that really drains these communities.

BERMAN: And look, as you say, the status quo, if you are in Mariupol, the status quo is hell -- living hell. So they need something to change in their favor.

There are these talks that have been going on and off for the last month. There's a new round tomorrow.

ABDELAZIZ: Absolutely. So this is going to be the fifth round of talks in Turkey. President Erdogan has really been a key mediator. He's been someone that President Putin has spoken to, who he has articulated his demands to. And based on those conversations, we are nowhere near this conflict ending.

You can't imagine President Putin really agreeing to lay down arms right now when he's just announced yet another phase of this operation. So you're going to have to wonder, what can these talks really accomplish?

And you also do have this second phase of the operation that's been announced here. So what does that look like on the ground for these civilians? What concessions is President Putin willing to give if at all and we already heard that in the Nunansk (ph), one of the separatist regions, they're going to potentially hold a referendum.

[14:04:54]

ABDELAZIZ: So the world grinds on and all of this maneuvering to gain that territory Putin wants, it's still happening.

BERMAN: Salma Abdelaziz, thank you so much for your reporting. Great to have you here.

So Ukrainian forces are still in control of Kyiv, even as the shelling continues near the capital.

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is there with more.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John. Well look, I would say by and large, maybe today was a little bit more quiet than what we've seen over the past couple of days, especially this week.

However, there were still those air raid sirens that were going off. We heard some shelling. We also heard some automatic weapons fire as well. And you know that could be, in part, due to the fact the Ukrainians are saying that they're pressing those counteroffensives to try and push Russian forces back.

A lot of that is happening towards the northwest of the city but also towards northeast of the city as well. And what we saw today is we managed to get up to a small town, a village, to the north of Kyiv and the people who live there, the few that are still remaining, they tell us that Russian forces really haven't been able to advance at all over the past couple of weeks.

But what they're doing now is they are increasingly shelling that area. We saw a bunch of houses that were destroyed and, of course, in that situation it's completely unsafe for the people who are still in that village.

Nevertheless, Ukrainian forces seem to be confident that they're going to be able to hold the Russians at bay and possibly push them back even further, even though their leadership understands that the gains that they've made are still very fragile and they can, of course, be reversed because the Russian army remains one that is very powerful, very dangerous as well, John.

BERMAN: All right. Our thanks to Frederik Pleitgen in Kyiv. Thank you Fred.

I want to bring in retired Colonel Cedric Leighton. He's a CNN military analyst and retired Air Force colonel.

I want to start with Kyiv. We just heard Frederik Pleitgen talking about that. Insofar as the Ukrainians have made some gains there, do you feel as if it is sustainable?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I certainly think so, John, but it's not sustainable yet. There are a lot of things that the Ukrainians have to worry about. you know, of course, supply and resupply efforts being among those. But also they have to worry about a Russian counterattack.

We've all heard the Russians say they're shifting their focus, but I'd be very careful about believing that. I think, you know, what the Ukrainians need to do is to make very sure that they're not caught by surprise by any ambushes or any efforts to encircle pockets of Ukrainian forces as they move forward into villages in and around the Kyiv metropolitan area.

And that becomes, I think, the biggest concern. They certainly can move forward, but they have to be very, very careful doing so.

BERMAN: You heard the Russians discuss the idea of this next phase of the campaign, focusing on the east. And then over the weekend, a Ukrainian official says that he is concerned what the Russians might try to do is to create a situation like the Korean Peninsula, where the Russians could control a section of the country they fear -- or try to in perpetuity. What do you think of that, Colonel?

LEIGHTON: Well, I think it's certainly a possibility. Obviously, there's precedent for that, not only with Korea but also, you know, with Germany for a while and that -- after World War II. So there are certain, you know, certain precedents there that could happen and particularly in the east.

You know, you would see them probably taking the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in other words. The Donbas area, possibly trying to extend it, you know, from a Russian perspective, extend control over all that area. That could happen.

There's also a natural boundary between east and west Ukrainian and that's the Dnipro river. The one that goes all the way from Kyiv down to the Black Sea Coast. That could potentially be a demarcation line as well. But I don't think the Russian forces are in position to grab that much territory, at least not at present, but that's -- I think kind of what they are thinking.

And that would not be good for Ukraine and for the GDP (ph) viability of the country economically or politically. BERMAN: Colonel, President Biden said yesterday at the end of his

speech in Warsaw, he said of Vladimir Putin, this man cannot remain in power. There are political arguments about whether that was a wise thing to say or not.

Do you feel as if there are any military implications of that statement on the ground in Ukraine?

LEIGHTON: There certainly can be, John. And, you know, the way I would look at it from a military perspective is that, you know, if that is the stated policy of the government of the U.S. government and I know they've walked it back, but let's say for argument's sake that it were to be the policy, that would certainly widen the conflict and could potentially move NATO and U.S. forces into direct conflict with Russia.

[14:09:50]

LEIGHTON: The planning that would have to go into something like that and, you know, the fact that a few laws would have to be changed, of course, would also factor into this.

So, you know, from a military perspective, we probably shouldn't take it as a face value type statement. But it is certainly a significant indication of what President Biden really feels and probably what a lot of Americans are actually feeling, you know, vis-a-vis Putin.

BERMAN: So 24 hours at this time, Colonel, I was sitting here and there was smoke rising behind me. There was this missile strike from the Russians on this fuel storage depot. What does that tell you? Is this the Russians showing what they can do or is it the Russians revealing, in some ways, the limitations of their capabilities at this point?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it's a little bit of both actually, John. Yes, it certainly shows what they can do, you know, using precision-guided munitions to attack that oil storage facility in Lviv. They've done similar things near Kyiv, the day before, the one that you saw personally.

So there are these kinds of attacks. They also are going after other elements of the Ukrainian infrastructure. So they can certainly do this. They can certainly cause damage, but they're not doing it on a sustained basis.

When the U.S. performs -- conducts an air campaign, it's a very sustained, very robust effort. We haven't seen that kind of an effort from the Russians, at least not to date. And it leads me to believe that there are limitations to not only the amount of precision-guided munitions that they have available but also to their ability to sustain those kinds of operations over a longer period. I think that's lacking, and I think we're seeing that right now.

BERMAN: Colonel Cedric Leighton, it's always a pleasure to speak with you. We always end up learning so much. Appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: Thank you, John. Great to be with you.

BERMAN: Coming up, President Biden seemed to call for regime change in Russia on that dramatic final day of his critical trip to Europe. Now the White House is walking back those comments. Live to the White House next.

[14:12:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: President Biden is back in Washington, D.C. after wrapping up his critical trip to Europe with western allies. The president also delivering a major speech from Poland's royal castle which seemed to call for regime change in Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's bring in CNN's Arlette Saenz at the White House. So Arlette, the White House responding, defining those comments in a different way.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred. This was a very carefully crafted speech from President Biden as he was laying out the stakes of what is occurring in Ukraine at this moment. But it was just nine words that President Biden uttered that really threw everything off script. Surprising many of his aides when the president seemed to suggest that he wanted to see regime change in Russia.

Now even before President Biden departed Poland, the White House sought to clarify and walk back those comments saying that that's not exactly what the president meant. That is something that was reiterated by the Secretary of State Antony Blinken a bit earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The president, the White House made the point last night that, quite simply, President Putin cannot be empowered to wage war or engage in aggression against Ukraine or anyone else.

As you know, and as you've heard us say repeatedly, we do not have a strategy of regime change in Russia or anywhere else for that matter. In this case, as in any case, it's up to the people of the country in question. It's up to the Russian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: But still, those comments from President Biden reverberated around the world very quickly, drawing a quick response from the Russian government itself with a spokesperson saying that regime -- who is in power in Russia is not a decision for President Biden to make but one for the Russian people to make.

And here in the U.S., President Biden has also seen some criticism from Republican lawmakers, including Senator James Risch, the ranking member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Take a listen to what he said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR JAMES RISCH (R-ID): Any time you say or even as he did suggest that the policy was regime change, it's going to cause a huge problem. This administration has done everything they can to stop escalating. There's not a whole lot more you can do to escalate than to call for regime change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, those comments from Biden also came as the president really stepped up his rhetoric against Russian President Vladimir Putin over the course of this trip, calling him a war criminal and also a butcher for what he has done in Ukraine.

We will see what further explanations the White House has in the coming days, including from President Biden himself by what exactly he meant by those comments, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Arlette Saenz at the White House. Thank you so much.

So French President Emmanuel Macron, who has been acting as a go- between for the U.S., Europe and Russia, reacted to President Biden's labeling of Vladimir Putin as a butcher, telling French television, quote, "I wouldn't use terms like that because I'm still in talks with President Putin." Then adding, I'm quoting now, "Our goal is to stop the war in Russia launched in Ukraine, while avoiding a war and escalation," end quote.

So let's bring in Ambassador William Taylor. He's the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine and is now a vice president for Russia and Europe at the United States Institute of Peace. So good to see you, Ambassador. So does President Macron have a good point?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I don't think so, Fredricka. I think President Biden said what he thought. He said what many people think.

[14:19:58]

TAYLOR: Secretary Blinken, of course, is right. This is not a change in policy. This is -- there is no U.S. policy that calls for regime change. President Biden didn't say that.

President Biden said this man cannot stay in power. That's a commonly held view, probably around the world. Maybe even in Russia, Fredricka. But it is certainly the case that that was a moral statement. It was not a policy statement.

WHITFIELD: However, does it carry more weight because it is the sitting president of the United States, the commander in chief?

TAYLOR: Of course, it does. Of course, it does. And the sitting president of the United States, the commander in chief, has a responsibility to lead this nation and he's doing that. And he's leading it in a moral way.

This war that Russia is fighting against Ukraine in the first instance but against all of us in the second interest is immoral. It's unjustified. It's unprovoked.

WHITFIELD: On the issue of --

TAYLOR: So the president is making that moral point.

WHITFIELD: I got you. And on the issue of the word choice that the president used at the end of his speech saying, for God's sake, this man cannot remain in power, our former Moscow bureau chief and now contributor Jill Dougherty said this in terms of the response in country of Russia.

Russian media concentrating on, you know, #BidenGaffes, but then censoring in a way the actual words that Biden used that, you know, this man cannot remain in power. How does Putin leverage that -- those comments coming from the United States' president in country?

TAYLOR: I think President Putin has a real problem. When the president of the United States says this man cannot stay in power or the president of the United States says Putin is a war criminal or the president of the United States says Putin is a butcher, that gets through to the Russian people.

So Jill Dougherty is exactly right. They don't want to get this -- the Russians don't want to get this out. They don't want their people to hear that the president of the United States thinks that their president is a war criminal or a butcher or shouldn't remain in power.

So I think this is actually a message, not just to President Putin, but to the Russian people.

WHITFIELD: Following these talks in Europe involving the United States president, we didn't really hear out loud commitments that have now come as a result of these discussions, bilateral talks.

But in your view, what perhaps may have been solidified as a result of these meetings so as to anticipate what might be next in Ukraine?

TAYLOR: So one thing, Fredricka, that I was very interested to hear was when President Zelenskyy spoke to the NATO summit. A couple of things he didn't ask for. He didn't ask for a no-fly zone. He just wants the equipment so that he can impose a no-fly zone.

He didn't ask for NATO membership. He just wants security for his country. And for security for his country, he asked for security guarantees.

So I think that is an interesting point that will go forward. How to secure Ukraine after this war ends. In my view, Ukraine will win this war.

In fact, President Biden in a little noticed part of the speech just before his famous line about Putin -- he can't remain in power. Just before that he said that Russia will not win in Ukraine. That Ukraine, by -- that implies that means that Ukraine will win and that's when we need to secure and provide security guarantees to the Ukrainians.

WHITFIELD: So that might bring some relief to the Ukrainian people that there would be these security guarantees after the war. And, of course, they want to win this war. But in order to win this war, we keep hearing from the president of Ukraine who says, yes, they need resources. They need it now.

While, they may not have reiterated it within the last 24 hours, a need for the no-fly zone or even air power. I mean clearly they still need a lot in order to win, in order to get to this securing of security later, post war.

TAYLOR: Fredricka, you're exactly right. You're exactly right. And so the spigot of military equipment, of stingers, of javelins, of armored vehicles -- we haven't seen many armored vehicles. They need armored vehicles. That spigot needs to go wide open. Turn it totally open.

And it needs to go -- as you just said it needs to go now. It is not good enough to come in two weeks or three weeks even. It needs to go now. That spigot needs to be flowing these equipment as well as these missiles that can take out ships in the Black Sea or in the Sea of Azov.

[14:24:58]

TAYLOR: So there are things -- there are military items of equipment, weapons that the Ukrainians need right now, and they need them in great volume so that they can get to the other side.

WHITFIELD: All right. Glad you could be with us, Ambassador Bill Taylor. Thank you so much.

TAYLOR: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And for more information about how you can help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine go to CNN.com/impact.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. The White House and Democrats are hoping to have Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court by early April. And if confirmed, she would be the first black woman on the nation's highest court.

It's likely to be the closest Senate vote in history of the U.S. Supreme Court nominations. Judge Jackson underwent several days of long and sometimes contentious questioning from Republicans on Capitol Hill last week. And today on CNN, Senator Cory Booker weighed in on how she was treated during those hearings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): I got a chance to witness firsthand what I think many people in America can relate to is when you show up in a room, qualified, when you show up in a room with extraordinary expertise and credentials. There are a lot of Americans who know that hurt that you are still going to be treated in a way that does not respect you fully.

I think this is not about racism. It's about decency. And I think it's a kind of thing that a lot of folks, women of all races, have had to endure often when they get into a room, that they're qualified to be in, but are not questioned in ways that are disappointing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: For more on this, let's bring in CNN White House reporter Jasmine Wright.

So, Jasmine, where does Jackson's nomination stand? What's happening ahead of the vote?

JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, judge Jackson is all but guaranteed to be confirmed here. That's especially after Senator Joe Manchin came out in favor of her nomination saying last week that he would support it. And remember, we know that Democrats want to get this done quickly. So Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has promised to bring a vote to the floor in short order. But that can only happen after her nomination is advanced out of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and that vote is expected to happen around April 1st.

So things will be happening -- a lot of things will be happening at the beginning of this next month. But one question going forward here, Fred, is whether or not she can garner Republican votes. Of course, she does not need them because they can pass her nomination along party lines with that 50-50 Senate but, of course, the White House would like some type of GOP involvement in this, some type of bipartisan support so that's going to be the question going forward but things will be happening soon.

WHITFIELD: And, Jasmine, of course, this confirmation vote, it's going to be historic just as the hearings were. If confirmed, she'll be the first black woman on the U.S. Supreme Court. So, what can you tell us about how her nomination came to be, her testimony, her service, and how all of this has served as a lot of inspiration for a lot of people?

WRIGHT: Yeah, inspiration is the perfect word there. I talked to so many black women over the course of the last month, really, coming up to this hearing coming up to this vote and they talked all about how just from her example, they have seen their possibilities expanding. One 16-year-old girl told me just seeing her stand up there with President Biden in February when he nominated her, she knew that moment that she wanted to be a judge and just everything that she has seen thus far has really confirmed that.

And we know it is kind of the most intense version here of, you have to see it to be it. You have to see it really to believe it. Especially as we know that black women make up such a small share of attorneys in this country, just 5 percent, according to the American Bar Association in 2021.

So it's a very intense version of seeing this woman, Judge Ketanji Jackson in her bright colors you see on the screen right here, really setting an example for these black women, showing them that if she can do it, they can do it, too. That's something I heard over and over again from women from 16 years old to women 39. I talked to one woman who did not see a Black attorney growing up. Her first example of a Black attorney was seeing Clair Huxtable on TV.

But now, after that first day of testimony, she knows that she can be a judge. And so, I think that Ketanji Brown Jackson, she spoke really eloquently about that type of inspiration in her hearing.

Take a listen to this moment when she talked about her first year at Harvard and that experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I am from Miami, Florida. Boston is very cold. It was -- it was rough. It was different from anything I'd known.

I was really questioning, do I belong here? Can I -- can I make it in this environment? And I was walking through the yard in the evening, and a Black woman I did not know was passing me on the sidewalk, and she looked at me and I guess she knew how I was feeling. And she leaned over, as we crossed and said, persevere. I would tell them to persevere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:35:02]

WRIGHT: And so, that really powerful moment, that is something that young Black girls are seeing all across the country. And the women I talked to, they want to be a part of that generation. That perseveres.

WHITFIELD: And I love, Jasmine, you write on CNN.com. Reading the quotes of the young ladies, the ladies that you spoke with and just that sentiment and then seeing that sound bite again, all of it so powerful. Jasmine, thank you so much.

All right. Still ahead -- each day, more Ukrainians are fleeing the carnage in their country. But millions remain. Next, you will hear from the CEO of a Ukrainian pharmaceutical company who is sheltering 150 of his employees and their families at their plant in Kyiv.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:40:30] BERMAN: Every day, more Ukrainians are fleeing the carnage in this country. Yesterday alone, more than 5,200 escaped through humanitarian corridors, most of them from Mariupol. Hundreds were also evacuated from the Kyiv and Luhansk regions.

CNN's Ed Lavandera joins me live here in Lviv.

And, Ed, a few hours ago, you were in Poland. You spent time in Poland. Poland is the country where the most Ukrainian refugees are going. Just tell us what you saw there.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it's really changed dramatically in the last few weeks. You know, we were in the town of Przemysl, which is bout a two-hour drive from where we are here in Lviv. The mayor told me at its peak we were seeing about 50,000 to 60,000 people crossing through that city alone. Those numbers have drop off dramatically, but it's still steady at the train station.

The mayor's office told us they were still getting about 1,000 a day. There are still several more thousand crossing by either foot or on bus at the border checkpoint a few miles away. So you're still seeing a steady flow of people.

What is really fascinating is just the system that's been created to quickly move these people away from these small border towns further into -- so there's a -- further into Poland or Europe where they might want to end up. So, there's a system of buses and shelters. They spend maybe a night or get put on a train and get moved to Warsaw or Krakow or Prague.

So, that system seems to be working rather well. And so it's kind of fascinating to watch it.

BERMAN: Do they have a choice? Do they know where they're going next when they arrive here?

LAVANDERA: This is the -- I hope that our reporting from there has kind of conveyed the sense of -- there are some people who have now talked to maybe a relative or cousins and say, oh, they're in Prague or somewhere in Germany and they maybe have a system. Then there are countless people who are showing up there kind of looking around, waiting for a volunteer to guide them to the next checkpoint that will explain, here's where you can catch the bus. This is where the shelters are.

The most heartbreaking part of all of this is witnessing the number of elderly people who have shown up by themselves. So you imagine they're 75, 80, 85 years old. They've left their hometowns. Very often right now they're coming from far eastern Ukraine. They've seen the worst of all of this.

And they simply have no idea where they're going to end up. That's really been just staggering. But there's a -- there's a strength that you see within them, right? They're sitting there carrying two bags of whatever belongings they can grab and trying to figure out what the next couple of days is going to look like for them.

BERMAN: That takes so much strength to get over the border to Poland. We met people because they stop here before they get to you there.

And, Ed, right there, welcome to Lviv. Welcome to Ukraine. There's your first air raid siren. This is why they are going. They're going to flee the danger that's in this country because once you get over the border in Poland, you are safe.

LAVANDERA: There's a sense of relief you see from people. There's a sense of confusion. There's also a place where I think -- I think they start grasping for the first time just how much help and how much attention they're getting around the world. You cross the border and there's about a 300-yard kind of path that takes you to the buses. And that's lined with an array of international aid organizations that is really starting to see, you know, you have groups of Indian Sikhs cooking food for them.

There's one guy that stuck out to me, there's a Scottish guy in a kilt handing out freshly cooked pizza to the kids. He's the hit of the line. I think that's the moment where it sticks to them. The world is watching what's happening to them.

BERMAN: Love comes in many shapes, sizes and nationalities.

Ed Lavandera, great to see you here. Thank you so much.

LAVANDERA: Good to see you.

So while millions of Ukrainians are desperately fleeing the country, millions more remain. My next guest is among those staying behind with a critical mission. Dmytro Shymkiv joins me. He is live in Kyiv right now. He's the former deputy head of the presidential office of Ukraine, and currently the CEO of Darnitsa, the largest Ukrainian pharmaceutical company.

And, Dmytro, I appreciate you joining us. You have 150 employees and their families, including 37 children living in a bomb shelter at a plant in Kyiv. Just tell me how is that operating? What's the process down there? How is everyone surviving?

DMYTRO SHYMKIV, FORMER DEPUTY HEAD OF THE PRESIDENTIAL OFFICE OF UKRAINE: Well, thank you very much for having me here. It's critical that pharmaceutical industry deliver the necessary drugs for our employees -- sorry, for our hospitals, for our doctors, for our patients.

[14:45:08]

And this is very important that our employees get engaged. And, of course, they are worried for their families. So they -- during the night shift, they are working. They bring their loved ones with them.

And we are trying to deliver on expectations for all hospitals and pharmacies that are all around the country. And we are shipping everywhere we can, taking into account there are locations which has difficulties of delivering very critical medical supply as to Mariupol or Chernihiv or Sumy.

BERMAN: Are you able to get supplies to these incredibly hard-hit areas?

SHYMKIV: Well, it's been a very difficult areas. First of all, the humanitarian corridors have not been working. So the people could not get in. The volunteers are trying to find the way how to bring the very needed medicine across the kind of military.

And it's been a very, very challenging. We had a situation where we actually have to look for the volunteers, drivers who could drive the cars or trucks with very critical pharmaceutical products to the hospitals.

In Zaporizhzhia, we had a volunteer who delivered 340 kilograms of drugs being shelled multiple times and still delivered the necessary drugs.

We see these kind of volunteers and active people who helped actually to bring the medicine down to the very needed places.

BERMAN: I mean, these are essential workers, right? We call them essential workers in the United States. People need this --

SHYMKIV: Absolutely.

BERMAN: -- product that you're putting out there because there's so much suffering around the country right now. How stressful is it for you and for the people who remain behind in Kyiv to do the work that needs to be done?

SHYMKIV: As you noticed, I'm sitting in the darkness. And our employees, we have to ensure the production which is taking place because there is high demand for all types of the drugs from tablets, capsules, infusion, injectables, antibiotics and so on and so on. And there is -- everybody is worried.

You know, our employees are worried. Are they afraid to come to work? The sirens, we can hear the sirens. People have to -- some of the work we do is automatic. Some things require presence of the operators.

We have to maintain the quality control because we are, I mean, producing pharmaceutical drugs is very critical, both from the needs but also you need to adhere to the highest standards, standards which are good manufacturing practices.

And we -- everything we produce today is actually adhering to the standards. And then you need deliver it adhering to the standards -- meaning maintaining temperature. Not every car can deliver this. So that's why cars have been marked with red crosses and other signs that it's drugs. Nevertheless, they've been shelled, and there have been challenges.

But employees, I am extremely worried. There's psychological concerns. If you think about the kids, I have kids from 2 years old to 18. And we have to create a quasi, so-called kindergarten for the small ones and then we continue -- they told us how to do online learning and online teaching.

So there is online school, which has continued to happen for those who are in the -- who are older.

BERMAN: Right. Dmytro Shymkiv, thank you so much for the work you're doing. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I appreciate it.

SHYMKIV: Thank you very much for having me.

BERMAN: Our special live coverage continues right after the break.

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[14:53:54]

WHITFIELD: Well, perhaps it's a scene reminiscent from the movie "Titanic" when a band played for passengers as the ship was sinking. Well, members of the Odessa opera troupe traded in their stage for a waiting area in the city's train station. The group performed upbeat patriotic songs and folk tunes hoping to lift the spirits of refugees fleeing the city.

And in a Missouri forest, wildland firefighters are forging a sisterhood in a field dominated by men, in today's "Represented."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY MARTIN, BURN BOSS, THE NATURE CONSERVANCY: Most of my life has been spent as a wildland firefighter working for the Forest Service and the National Park Service for 35 years.

In 2016, I made a very difficult decision knowing that I was putting everything on the line to go testify in front of Congress to talk about the harassment and gender bias and discrimination that women face in my field.

This is why I could notice longer remain silent. There's a lot of other women out there that I represent.

The results really put in place powerful policies about reporting gender bias that still is occurring to this day.

[14:55:07]

Welcome. We're glad to -- glad to have you here.

Now I'm working for the Nature Conservancy as a burn boss and giving back to the next generation of the women coming up behind me. I see a sisterhood in women firefighters that was not readily apparent when I was in my 20s, when I was deployed to fire assignments.

And it's very exciting to see that network grow of more women that are supporting other women. I am really inspired by these young women that are making this a career, that are coming into this as a job that they love.

(END VIDEOTAPE)