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Biden Not Calling for Regime Change in Russia; Loud Explosion in Kyiv Amid Heavy Battles; Ukraine Reclaims Villages in Series of Counterattacks; U.S. Mom, Infant Son Flee Ukraine Amid Bureaucratic Nightmare; Why Hasn't Russia Launched Cyberattacks on Ukraine; New Survey One in Five Election Officials Unlikely to Stay after 2024; Death of Taylor Hawkins Under Investigation in Colombia. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired March 27, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:37]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Pamela. I'm Don Lemon live in Lviv, Ukraine, where it is 2:00 a.m. right now on Monday morning.

We're going to begin with some breaking news out of Kyiv. CNN teams in the Ukrainian capital say that they heard a loud explosion. It happened just a short time ago followed by sirens. This latest blast in Kyiv comes as Ukrainian forces seem to be pushing Russian troops back on several fronts. The invaders are now resorting to missile strikes north and west of the capital. The Russians are digging in but no longer trying to advance in areas where Ukrainian troops have a fragile hold.

Also tonight, disturbing now claim from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He is saying that according to our information more than 2,000 children were taken out. That means stolen. Their exact location unknown. They can be there with or without parents. All in all, it is a disaster. Those are his words. CNN cannot independently verify these claims but a pro-Russian separatist says about 1700 people are being evacuated daily to Russia from Mariupol and other cities.

Mariupol is now a ravaged ghost town after weeks of bombardment. And officials there say thousands of people have been killed and survivors are blocked from escape. No one can get in with food, water or medical supplies. Zelenskyy calls it a humanitarian catastrophe.

And meanwhile, the White House is trying to walk back President Biden's impassioned comments about President Putin in Poland yesterday. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For God's sake, this man cannot remain powerful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Today, Secretary of State Tony Blinken attempting to clarify the U.S. position on Putin and Russia's war on Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: The president, the White House, made the point last night that quite simply, President Putin cannot be empowered to wage war on engage in aggression against Ukraine or anyone else. As you know and as you've heard us say repeatedly, we do not have a strategy of regime change in Russia or anywhere else for that matter. In this case as in any case it's up to the people of the country in question, it's up to the Russian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Straight away to Arlette Saenz at the White House with more.

Arlette, hello to you. How is this all playing out back in D.C.?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don, well, that speech from President Biden in Poland was very carefully crafted by the White House as they hoped the president would lay out the stakes regarding Russia's invasion into Ukraine, but with just nine words President Biden went completely off-script surprising many of his own aides by making that comment and forcing the White House to scramble to try to clarify what he meant.

And questions about what he meant have followed President Biden back here to Washington. Just a short while ago, he was leaving mass over in Georgetown here in Washington, D.C. and he was asked by reporters about his comments. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, do you want Putin removed? Mr. President, were you calling for regime change?

BIDEN: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: President Biden very clearly there saying that that is not what he was doing, calling for regime change with his remarks in Poland, but still, that drew a very quick response from Russia yesterday who said that the decision about who rules Russia is not up to Biden but to the Russian people.

Now it comes as President Biden has really been escalating his rhetoric when it comes to Russian president Vladimir Putin. In recent weeks he's called him a murderous thug, a war criminal, and yesterday referring to the Russian president as a butcher after meeting with refugees there on the ground in Poland.

Now President Biden has faced some criticism here in Washington for his comments yesterday. Senator Jim Risch, for example, the ranking member of Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said that it was a horrendous gaffe from the president and that it could be viewed as an escalatory step by Russia so certainly the White House will continue to face questions about President Biden's intentions especially when you think, going back to the campaign, Biden would repeatedly say that the words of a president matter.

In this moment, those very nine words really raised some questions about the U.S. policy but of course, today, President Biden tried to clarify that no, he did not mean he was calling for regime change -- Don.

[19:05:12]

LEMON: Arlette Saenz at the White House. Thank you, Arlette, we appreciate that.

Let's talk about news from the region now. Joining me now is CNN's Salma Abdelaziz.

And Salma, we're talking about the explosions in Kyiv just a short time ago. What do you know? Any new information coming in?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So this has just happened. What we do know is there's heavy battles, of course, ongoing in the capital. Ukrainian forces say a counteroffensive has been able in the last few days to push back Russian forces so we can assume that that's a continuation of those heavy battles but we'll find out more.

But of course, terrifying for the people trapped in that city still who haven't been able to leave, to hear these explosions at night. And we've been hearing from an adviser to President Zelenskyy who says missile strikes from Russia continue heavily. And they're resorting more and more to these long-range missiles. They haven't been able to have any superiority in the air or on the ground so these long-range missiles are really what Russia is relying on.

And this again adviser to the president is saying Mariupol is being carpet bombed. He's naming several cities. He says the language of Russia is these missiles. That they understand nothing else other than trying to wipe out Ukraine.

LEMON: Let's talk about this. There's some really disturbing video that has surfaced, Salma, showing Russian soldiers shooting Ukrainians in the knees, prisoners in the knees. What do you know about that?

ABDELAZIZ: So this is actually Ukrainian forces that have captured in this video, this is a social media video.

LEMON: Yes.

ABDELAZIZ: That CNN has obtained.

LEMON: Ukrainian soldiers shooting them, apparently.

ABDELAZIZ: Yes.

LEMON: OK. Got it.

ABDELAZIZ: So -- we've seen this video. CNN has been looking at it. They've been geolocating the information. What it appears to show is Ukrainian soldiers who've captured Russian troops at the -- towards the end of the video you see these Russian soldiers who are hand- cuffed.

LEMON: My goodness.

ABDELAZIZ: And then they're shot in the leg at close range. It's highly disturbing, of course, but this is what happens in war, right? Is these very horrific incidences. Again, we don't know if this is authentic, if this is true. The Ukrainian side says they're investigating, they're going to look into it, but, again, in the fog of war this is what's disturbing. This is what's concerning.

LEMON: Yes. And it has to be authenticated and verified, And we'll keep checking on it. Thank you, we appreciate it.

ABDELAZIZ: Thanks.

LEMON: Salma Abdelaziz, back -- let's get back to Pamela in Washington now. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, thanks, Don.

Well, this weekend Ukrainian forces claim to have recaptured several villages east of Kharkiv. CNN geolocated and verified video that shows Ukrainian troops in control of one of the settlements. It's just 20 minutes from the Russian border. A number of these villages have been encircled by Russian forces since the early weeks of the invasion. And northeast of Kyiv the mayor of Chernihiv says the city is now surrounded.

That city has no stable power supply. Plus water has to be delivered by volunteers. The mayor says approximately 120,000 to 130,000 residents remain in the city, less than half of the population before the war.

And in southeastern Ukraine, the leader of the pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic says today that around 1700 people are being evacuated, as he calls it, daily from the port city of Mariupol and other towns to Russia. Ukraine's deputy prime minister said her government estimates about 40,000 Ukrainians have been forcibly deported to Russia since late February.

And joining me now, CNN military analyst and retired Army lieutenant general Mark Hertling.

So, General, this idea from Ukraine's intelligence chief suggesting that Putin wants to carve Ukraine in two like North and South Korea, is this a possible scenario because the rationale behind it is that Russia will never be able to take the capital of Kyiv?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I don't think they'd be able to carve it in two either, Pamela. This is a continual attempt to adapt the Russian plan to what they think they can get away with and truthfully what I have seen over the last month, Ukraine has been very forceful in countering every single Russian strategic objective, every operational plan, every tactical battle.

They are performing exceedingly well now around Kyiv, around Kharkiv, around Kherson. They are pushing the Russians back in every single area. Now certainly, the Russians have some locations like Mariupol that they continue to slaughter people and attempt to force refugees into Russia but, you know, Pamela, when this conflict started, there were probably some Ukrainian citizens in the eastern part of the country who were friendly toward Russia.

But from what Ukrainians have seen over the last month, there has been an impetus to continue to go away from any kind of Russian oppression, even the Russian speaking citizens in the east are now just disgusted by Russian conflict behavior. So I don't think you're going to be able to see Russia reorganized as they suggest they're going to do either in Belarus and Russia, and reattack to regain the Donbas region.

[19:10:05]

I personally just don't think that can happen because they can't adjust their army away from the army it is today and Ukraine currently has the upper hand in my view.

BROWN: I want to ask you about this "Washington Post" reporting that Russian generals are getting killed in an extraordinary raid. Now Ukrainian officials claim they have killed seven. Why do you think that's happening?

HERTLING: Well, I think it's a combination of things, Pam, and we've talked about this in terms of the confusion on the frontline of the conflict, as well as the attempts for Russian generals to always be at the frontlines because they have very few subordinates especially within the noncommissioned officer, the sergeant corps, to execute the orders that they give. But additionally to that, it's been repeatedly reported that they are using unencrypted communication.

That is just anathema on the modern battlefield because that kind of communication, the signals intelligence can be targeted and as soon as you get a hit on a cell phone that's operating in the clear in a combat zone, you can bring fire on that target, so I think, you know, some may say well, it's because the Russian generals are on the frontline or they're with the troops. That could be part of it, but I think a bigger part is they are talking on unencrypted cell phones and they're getting squashed when they do that.

BROWN: I want to ask you about a tweet that you had sent out. You said in this tweet, this may sound heartless as people could have been hurt, and the strikes did hit oil tanks, but Russia sending three, yes, three missiles toward Lviv is an act of desperation, not a signal toward NATO."

So tell us why you think it's a desperate move.

HERTLING: Well, there were a lot of commentators suggesting that this was a signal toward NATO that they can send cruise missiles to Lviv. Cruise missiles can travel that far. For me it tells me that they are unwilling to enter the air space of Ukraine because we have seen the Russian Air Force continue to get beat so they all right sending these missiles from either Belarus or Russia proper.

And when you're talking about just three, and that's where I didn't want to appear heartless because it did hit a tanker and it could have hurt someone, but just three, Pamela, I'd remind people that when the last administration fired at an airfield of Syria there were over 60 cruise missiles shot from the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean to hit that one airport.

So three cruise missiles are certainly -- they can certainly damage a piece of property, but it's not going to effectually close down the city of Lviv or close down that oil facility. In fact, they only hit, from what I can see, one or two tankers. Again that's unfortunate.

BROWN: Right.

HERTLING: It's a war, it's a conflict issue, but it certainly isn't the amount of power that you would expect from a country that says that they have so many missiles. And I'd add to that the fact that the DIA commentary that 20 percent to 60 percent, that's a big range, of Russian precision weapons are not working. That tells me that this force that Ukraine has been going up against not only tactically one on one, but even their missile force is not what many people said was 10 feet tall.

BROWN: All right, General Mark Hertling, thank you.

HERTLING: Pleasure, Pam, thank you.

BROWN: And up next, a young mother from Massachusetts goes to extreme lengths to get her and her baby out of the Ukraine warzone. We speak to her family about this incredible journey.

And also tonight, the election officials fed up with the threats and calling it quits. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:17:50]

BROWN: In Washington, a show of solidarity for Ukraine and its people. Supporters rallied at the Lincoln Memorial to call for more help from the West. They laid Ukrainian flags and held signs with captions including "Kyiv is the Capital of Freedom." Among the crowd, several Ukrainian-led charities and advocacy groups. They are providing aid to Ukrainians who have not been able to flee the country. Don?

LEMON: And Pamela, this story, it is really unbelievable. It is a happy ending, though, to a report on one family's ordeal that we have shared with you. Earlier today we learned that Aislinn Hubbard and her 9-month-old son have successfully fled Ukraine and are now in Slovakia. Ukrainian military officials had seized her son last week when they

tried to cross into Slovakia because her son did not have a birth certificate or a passport. That's because he was born at home due to the pandemic. Her father worked tirelessly to get them and Aislinn's boyfriend to safety. William Hubbard joins me now.

William, congratulations. It's good to see you again. Last we spoke you didn't know what was going to happen. How did you manage to cross into Slovakia?

WILLIAM HUBBARD, REUNITED WITH FAMILY WHO FLED UKRAINE: Well, I myself crossed through the gauntlet of the border police but my daughter crossed through the wilderness. She had hiked over the -- a portion of the Carpathian Alps, through the forest lands and eventually reached Slovakia, and then hiked for another hour and a half to two hours in the dark to get to a little bar, and at the bar, the patrons of the bar called the police for her and they came and picked her up. And after that, everything was good. The first message she sent me was that I'm in Slovakia and the people are so nice.

LEMON: William, you said it was two and a half hours, you know, once you cross the border. How -- that's -- it's cold here. It's cold and that was a long journey.

HUBBARD: Yes. Yes.

LEMON: Did she tell you about the journey? What did she say? And how long did it take? What was she facing?

[19:20:03]

HUBBARD: I watched the journey on Find-a-Friend so I knew where she was along the whole pathway. We had been planning this trip for about five days. She had two dry runs two days before without the baby. They didn't go the full distance, and then finally, on the day that -- yesterday when she actually decided to go at 2:00 p.m. our time, the weather was good and we just decided to go for it.

LEMON: So what is your grandson's name?

HUBBARD: Seraphim.

LEMON: Seraphim. This is -- let's put up some video of him. OK. I want to put up some video of him so that our audience can see him. And you said she did -- oh, my gosh, he's adorable. You said she did a dry-run without him --

HUBBARD: Yes, and my daughter is a little -- my daughter is a little tiny thing. She's 95 pounds dripping wet. She had a 20-pound baby on the front, and a pack on the -- excuse me, a 20-pound baby on the back and a small pack on the front. And these are -- anybody who's been in this part of the world knows how steep these hills are and there's a lot of canyons so she was up and down the ridge lines as well as going down into the canyons.

Now at one point she actually slipped and slid down the hill about 20 feet. But all is good. She says she's sore and tired but she's happy to be in Slovakia.

LEMON: So, William, look, is this a travelled area? Is it -- do people hike this area? If she, you know, is it familiar to certain people? Did she have any help?

HUBBARD: No. We hatched the plan between her boyfriend, myself, and my daughter. We examined the maps, examined the satellite photos, determined the best pathway and we did a couple of dry runs to figure out where the soldiers were and we knew that the best way to hike through the mountains was to go through the most difficult terrain because most people who are going to try and cut through the mountains are going to take the easiest pathway and that's where they get caught and we didn't want to have any issues related to that.

LEMON: Well, I just want to explain to people what happened. Your daughter was here. She had a baby during COVID so she had to have it at home because of all the restrictions for COVID. And then when she was ready to come home, the war broke out. You came over to Ukraine to try to help her get out. You guys were detained. You went through all sorts of issues with authorities.

And finally, you have had enough and she made this journey through this rough terrain across the border to get to Slovakia. I'm glad she's OK. I'm wondering what happened to her boyfriend. Two things, how is her boyfriend doing? Where is he? And are you worried about any sort of blowback from authorities.

HUBBARD: No, I'm not worried about it because once we've reached the European Union they have a protection, legal apparatus, and the strange thing was that the Slovaks produced documents for my daughter, for my grandson and for the boyfriend in just a few hours that allows them to travel, stay within the European Union, and the U.S. government couldn't get anything done.

The Ukrainians weren't going to get anything done. The thought of staying in the Ukraine for two, six months with the war moving was just -- that wasn't happening and we made the decision. She would hike over the mountains and I would run the gauntlet with the border police.

LEMON: Yes, and you followed her you said on Find-a-Friend. Now, listen, it's amazing. Again, just to be clear. She had the baby at home. So the baby had no birth certificate so she couldn't get the baby out of the country and they went through this rigamarole and finally she trekked through the mountains. And amazing. Well, and everybody is OK? Where's the boyfriend?

HUBBARD: The boyfriend is with her. Everybody is good, safe.

LEMON: They're all good. Everybody is good.

HUBBARD: And they're all documented. That's the important thing.

LEMON: All right. Well, William, thank you so much. We appreciate it. William is, and we're glad everybody's OK. William's dealing with what many people are dealing with who are trying to either get out or adopt kids or surrogacy, what have you, the paper work has pretty much stopped in Ukraine for obvious reasons. They're a country under war, in war. They're under siege now so a lot of day-to-day things, daily things that would normally happen in a short period of time are not happening at all.

[19:25:07]

So again that's William Hubbard, his daughter, his grandson and her boyfriend are all OK.

Thank you, William. We appreciate it.

HUBBARD: Thank you.

LEMON: If you'd like more information, the Hubbard family has set up a go-fund-me page which you can see on the screen.

Pamela, they said that this has caused a real financial harm for their families so they've set up this go-fund-me page to try to help them out, but what a harrowing story. I mean trekking through the forest.

BROWN: Oh, my gosh.

LEMON: And that -- I mean, crazy, right?

BROWN: My jaw dropped, like when he was talking about the rough terrain and they mapped it out. She did dry runs without the baby and then she went with the baby.

LEMON: But you're a mom, Pam. You know. Moms would do anything for their kids.

BROWN: Well, I know. You would do anything for your child. And that is 100 percent true and I would have done the same thing, but my goodness, what an incredible daughter-dad duo to have accomplished that. I'm so glad everyone is OK.

Great interview there, Don. We'll be back with you soon.

LEMON: Thanks. Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: Well, the federal government says Americans need to assume that Russia is planning cyberattacks. So what can we do about it?

Up next, my exclusive interview with the top U.S. cybersecurity official.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN EASTERLY, DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: I think there is the possibility of Russian state-sponsored cyberattacks against our critical infrastructure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:30:44]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: A disturbing new claim from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy tonight. Here is what he is saying.

He is saying more than 2,000 Ukrainian children have been taken out of the country by Russian forces. CNN cannot independently verify these claims. Ukrainian officials are promising an immediate investigation after video surfaces of what appears to be Ukrainian soldiers shooting men who are apparently Russian prisoners in the knees during an operation in the Kharkiv region.

And the next round of peace talks between Russia and Ukraine will be held Tuesday in Istanbul. Speaking on social media tonight, Ukraine's President Zelenskyy says that peace and restoration of normal life are the obvious goals for Ukraine.

Back to you in Washington -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right. We'll be back with you soon there in Ukraine, Don.

The whole world is watching and waiting for Russia to launch cyber mayhem as another facet of its war on Ukraine.

Today, CNN's Dana Bash talked about that with the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): The first thing I've been surprised at is that the Russians have not launched their A-Team cyberattacks against Ukraine. It is remarkable to me that the internet is still operating and that the world press is still getting these images out of Ukraine.

I was horribly afraid that Russia would come in and shut down all the power systems, shut down the internet, and that some of those cyber tools would bleed into eastern Poland literally, potentially shut down over there.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Why haven't they?

WARNER: We don't have -- we don't honestly have a good answer yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: More now from my exclusive interview with Jen Easterly, Head of Cybersecurity for the U.S. government. She tells me why there is so much concern right now that Russia will also launch cyberattacks to disrupt life in America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEN EASTERLY, DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: We have to consider the threat very real. As we've said many times, we have to assume that there will be disruptive cyber activity. That's why resilience is so absolutely critical.

In today's highly connected, highly digitized world, it is becoming more and more challenging to prevent bad things from happening, and so that vigilance that is making sure that all companies have the resources and the security posture to be able to detect malicious activity, to respond to it, and to recover to mitigate any impacts to business, to people, to National Security. So we assume that bad things are going to happen.

In terms of how the Russians are looking at it, the threat environment I lens in three main ways. First, we worry about potential cascading impacts of Russian cyberattacks within Ukraine, and we've seen some of that activity cascading into the U.S. and the homeland. We worry about potential impacts of ransomware gangs.

We've seen a lot of that activity as you know -- Colonial Pipeline, JBS Foods, Kaseya Software, ransomware attacks against schools and hospitals. So, we worry about that. And then I think there is the possibility of Russian state-sponsored cyberattacks against our critical infrastructure, and that is why, we have been so focused on making sure our Shields Up Campaign is amplified across the country, as the President pointed out, in his statement, and in the factsheet that the White House put out earlier this week.

BROWN: So you say that no American is immune. Practically, what does that look like? I mean, there are steps that Americans can take to protect themselves, but if the Russians attack an energy firm that can impact anyone.

EASTERLY: I think the point to remember is that we live in this highly connected, highly digitized society, right? There's a technology backbone underpinning almost everything that we do. Every business these days is a technology business. And that's why all of the steps that we're talking about to keep ourselves safe and secure to ensure that we're resilient online apply to individuals, as well as to businesses.

So you think about a cyberattack against an electric grid or against a pipeline that can have very real effects against Americans and our way of life, but --

BROWN: In what way?

[19:35:03]

EASTERLY: Just as we saw with colonial pipelines so that shut down gas to the eastern seaboard for a period of several days, and that caused a panic and anxiety and that is one thing that we're very worried about, is the Russian playbook with malicious cyber activity combined with potential misinformation and disinformation that could really stoke panic and anxiety here in the U.S. homeland, and that is why we are so focused on making sure that everybody understands the potential for this disruptive cyber activity and it's not about panic, it is about preparation.

BROWN: How confident are you that the private sector has the defenses in place to defend itself from a malicious Russian cyberattack?

EASTERLY: Infrastructure is so complex, everything is connected in some ways. Everything is vulnerable. So it's very likely that there are continued vulnerabilities across our critical infrastructure.

I think what we've done with our very forward leaning partnerships is we've been able to drive down that risk.

Remember, Pamela, SolarWinds was not discovered by the U.S. government. SolarWinds was discovered by a private sector cybersecurity vendor known as FireEye. And so much of the malicious activity that occurs, it is not going to be the government that gets the first tipper on it, it is really going to be the private sector. And in particular, because everything is underpinned by a technology backbone, it could be these technology companies.

So the work that we are doing --

BROWN: And that's for espionage more, right, because espionage you don't necessarily know they're in, you need -- but if it's disruptive, right, you're going to know something is going on.

EASTERLY: Absolutely, but you want to catch it before it becomes disruptive, so you could see anomalous activity. This is one of the reasons why we have asked our private sector partners report to us even if you see anomalous activity, because anomalous activity could be the leading edge for disruptive activity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So you just heard Jen Easterly saying that we can all play a role in fending off potential Russian cyberattacks even as private citizens by practicing good cyber hygiene keeping software current by installing updates, using multifactor authentication systems, using a password manager that's an encrypted digital vault that stores information you use to log in to apps and accounts, and be careful what you click on.

She says that more than 93 percent of successful cyberattacks come from a phishing e-mail.

Check out cisa.gov/shields-up seals for more tips.

While from lies about election fraud or harassment from Trump supporters, many election officials are frustrated and some are even quitting out of that frustration. Up next, one official from Fulton County, Georgia joins me live we're going to talk about these problems and if there is any way to fix them.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:42:35]

BROWN: Unfounded mostly Republican cries of voter fraud during the 2020 presidential election dragged many election workers into an unfamiliar place, the spotlight.

Despite there being no widespread evidence of any kind of fraud, election workers in several states and their families were harassed for months.

Richard Barron is here with me now. He knows all about this. He is a Georgia Registration and Elections official who is leaving his position in just a few days.

Hi, Richard, welcome to the show.

So you ran that elections office for eight years. What was the final straw that pushed you to resign?

RICHARD BARRON, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA REGISTRATION AND ELECTIONS OFFICIAL: I think there are several things. I've been doing -- I've been in this work for 22 years, and I think the environment has just become so toxic that it has been -- it's hard to do your job anymore.

And when you are -- you know trying to serve the public, you need to be able to do your work in an efficient and linear fashion, and I think we got to this point now where there are elected officials, they're being led around by the nose by some extremists and conspiracy theorists. They lack the courage to stand up to them. We are getting legislation that is basically making nonpartisan election offices. They are being politicized, and that is making it harder for us to do our jobs, and just administering with these other bills that are being passed that focus on voter suppression, it is just making it really hard to feel good about the work you're doing.

And I've lost a lot of respect for a lot of elected officials, and just because of all of the rhetoric and their lack of attention to the harassment, the death threats, and the racial slurs that are hurled just at my staff, and after a while, you have to ask yourself if you want to be part of that process anymore, and I just didn't want to be anymore.

BROWN: Tell us a little bit more about what you experienced personally in the wake of the 2020 election and the baseless conspiracy theory driven by former President Trump that the election was stolen. What did you go through and your family for that matter?

[19:45:10]

BARRON: Well, you know, there was a lot of harassment. In particular, you know, some of the other news network, so One American News would put phone number up, and then you would get, you know, 150 calls between Christmas Day and New Year's. And we also -- I had a lot of staff that were subjected to a lot of racial animus, and it's just sad that we were in 2020 at that point, and the leader of the country, the President was giving all of these people the license to feel as though they could spew all of this racist nonsense and ugliness without shame.

You know, it's really hard to work in an environment like that, and I had certain staff that were harassed way more than I was, and I feel powerless to do anything about it, and the elected officials, the local elected officials that are on the same party with as President Trump, they were silent, and that is really disappointing, because that really tells you at that point how they feel about, you know, people that -- the public servants that work in the government.

The elected officials are only there to serve themselves, and essentially to make sure that they get elected in the next -- for the next two years or four years, depending on whatever office they are in.

BROWN: Yes. That is really just concerning for sure. And I want to ask you before we let you go about this Brennan Center for Justice Survey where it shows one in five election administrators say they are unlikely to remain in their post through 2024. Explain why that is so significant. This is a lot of people who have institutional knowledge who have been there working on elections for years and years and years now out the door.

BARRON: Yes, and that's exactly what you said is right, the institutional knowledge is going to be lost and you have people that have experienced many different situations and they are going to -- all of that experience is going to walk out the door. The understanding of what to do in certain situations, how to handle the media, how to handle upset voters, all of that is -- 20 percent of that is going to kind of walk out the door, and I think we've already seen that 33 percent of the election officials in Pennsylvania have left.

I know personally of seven counties here in Georgia that have changed leadership recently. We had a lot of turnover last year, more turnover in 2021 than we did in my previous eight years combined.

And you know, that is going to affect the quality of the elections that are going to be administered in the future.

BROWN: Yes. I mean, that's the huge problem, too, and the big concern looking forward is that actually it could -- the fact that all these people who have an institutional knowledge will no longer be there to help when situations pop up, which they inevitably do on Election Day, no matter where you are that the people that may be replacing them may not have that experience to be able to deal with those issues and it could undermine faith and confidence even more in the elections.

Richard Barron, thank you so much.

BARRON: Thank you. Good night.

BROWN: Good night. Well, drummer Taylor Hawkins' death has shocked his friends and fans. We're going to have the latest on how they are remembering him and of the investigation up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:523:25]

BROWN: Tonight, investigators are trying to figure out why rock drummer, Taylor Hawkins died. The news was announced Friday not long before his band, the Foo Fighters, was set to take the stage at a Music Festival in Colombia.

CNN's Chloe Melas is following this story closely for us.

So Chloe, what has the reaction been like? It has really been pouring out since we found out about his death.

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Pamela, it has been nonstop on social media, but the latest is that just hours ago, Dave Grohl landed, emotional hugging friends at LAX. They flew from Colombia and there are photos out now of him just looking incredibly distraught.

You know, Miley Cyrus, she is one of the celebrities who has been very outspoken about how upset that she was about his death, and she actually dedicated her concert last night in Brazil to Taylor Hawkins. Take a look at what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILEY CYRUS, SINGER: We had to make this an emergency landing and the first person that I called was Taylor, because he was already at the festival, and that would have been a time that I would have gotten to see my friend, and I didn't, so it makes me really sad.

But I would have done anything to hang out with him one more time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELAS: Yes, just incredibly sad and you're hearing just from so many different people that were close to Taylor with tributes.

We're waiting to see if Dave Grohl is going to say anything other than the official Foo Fighters' statement. Now we are just moments away from the Oscars and Travis Barker is going to be performing tonight. He is the drummer from Blink 182, and he is one of the celebrities that has been vocal on social media about his friendship with Taylor.

[19:55:13]

MELAS: So perhaps, he may do something unexpected and some sort of a dedication of his performance to Taylor. So we will wait and see. I'll keep you posted on that.

We're also waiting for the final toxicology report out of Colombia. The latest on their investigation and the forensics that they are doing and also, we are just days away from the Grammys. The Foo Fighters, Pamela were set to take the stage at the Grammys, so we're wondering if they are going to be doing some sort of a big tribute to him.

BROWN: All right, Chloe Melas, thanks for that.

We'll be right back.

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