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Ukraine, Russia Negotiators Discuss Security Guarantees, Ceasefire; At Least 12 Dead in Russian Strike on Mykolaiv Government Building; Russian Forces Stalled in Several Parts of Ukraine; Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired March 29, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:20]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Victor is off today.

The U.S. and Ukraine both see signs of Russian forces starting to withdraw troops away from the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv. The Russian Ministry of Defense confirms that Moscow will now, quote, "drastically reduce military activity in Kyiv and Chernihiv." But one Russian negotiator clarified the de-escalation is, quote, "not a cease-fire."

Russia's comments followed today's so-called de-escalation talks between Ukraine and Russia in Istanbul. For the first time after multiple rounds of meetings, top government officials from both sides say there is enough progress to potentially warrant a meeting between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Vladimir Putin. Despite these positive signs, words of caution from President Biden and his secretary of State.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll see. I don't read anything into it until I see what their actions are. Let's just see what they have to offer. We'll find out what they do.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: What I can say is this, there is what Russia says and there's what Russia does. We're focused on the latter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So while Russian troops may be pulling back in spots, Russian air strikes continue. At least 12 people were killed when a missile strike hit the office of the Regional Military Governor of Mykolaiv. That was a region. According to the regional government there. The attack blasted open a giant hole in the office building as you can on your screen.

CNN's Don Lemon joins us now from Lviv. That's in the western part of Ukraine.

So, Don, we hear that there was another strike on a fuel depot there?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: That is correct. There was this one in Lviv that happened last weekend. And yes, Alisyn, another one today. Once again a Russian missile hit a fuel depot, this time it was in the Rivne region which is northwest from where I am now. Over the weekend, the Russian forces launched a series of missile strikes against a depot that was here in Lviv that I mentioned while President Biden was not far away. He was right over the border in Poland.

So let's focus now on Ukraine's capital. CNN's chief international anchor is Christiane Amanpour. She joins us now from Kyiv.

Hello to you, Christiane. Russia has signaled two steps to deescalate here. A plan to drastically reduce hostilities in Kyiv and Chernihiv, and they even raised the possibility of a Putin-Zelenskyy meeting. There's a lot of skepticism but how potentially significant is this?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, Don, you'll know better than me because the mayor of Lviv has said, listen, you know, trust but verify. In other words, right now we don't trust anything because nothing they've said has come true. And you've just mentioned some further attacks there. We've had air raid sirens, you know, throughout the day and there are still, you know, combat activity in the suburbs elsewhere.

However, the U.S. is saying that what they've noticed over the last several days, which we've all been reporting, is that there has not been this advance on Kyiv. And in fact they don't think that it is any kind of strategic move, but it's something based on the fact that, as the U.S. says, you know, reflects Russia's failure on the ground. But whatever they said today, the most important thing they also said is this does not mean that there is a cease-fire.

So they're basically saying we're going to pull away from here maybe and concentrate on there. And there is eastern Ukraine, Donbas, which they're out and out saying they want to go and solidify and conquer and get and occupy and they hope they will be able to get international recognition for that and for Crimea. That of course poses a massive dilemma for the international community because it's against the law and also for Ukraine which does not want to give up any of its territory.

And Don, the other big thing for Ukraine that's a massive problem, you know, to be resolved for the future is the idea of its security guarantees. So President Zelenskyy has said, OK, neutrality, OK, no NATO. But we need to be backed up by our allies in case this happens to us again. That is going to be difficult to resolve. Will Russia agree to it? Will the West, i.e., NATO agree to do what they won't do for Ukraine right now -- in other words, protect it on the ground, in the air from Russia. So this is very, very tricky before any kind of peace deal or cease-fire can be enacted.

LEMON: Yes. And look, we know that there's plenty of fighting still happening as we both are talking about here. So what are the concerns of fighting resuming in Kyiv if these talks break down?

[14:05:04]

AMANPOUR: Well, look, the concerns are, but they don't think it's likely here, and today I was speaking to, you know, an MP and others who just do not believe that this city will fall. It has not done in 30, you know, 34 days of this war. But on the outskirts they are seeing horrible casualties and horrible destruction of towns and other areas, residential areas that are on the way to Kyiv, as the Russians had been trying to basically, you know, get their way through to here. But it hasn't happened. And they have been stalled for the last several days.

Now some were saying that they had dug in defensively, potentially to get resupplied, reinforced and to fight another day. We'll see if that actually happens. It will be really interesting to see if what the Russians have said today manifestly occurs on the ground. And then you'll start seeing, presumably, troops pulling back and getting out of their dugout positions and their defensive positions and pulling back. That's when we'll know that something is afoot.

LEMON: I've been watching you on "AMANPOUR" do these incredible interviews with people like Dmitry Peskov and others, and being around the region you travel. You were with the president as he was meeting across the border. I want to know, your journey into Kyiv, what has it been like for you? What are you seeing on the ground there in the city especially having been in many warzones before, Christiane?

AMANPOUR: Well, you're right, Don, I was covering the NATO summit, the president was there. I spoke to the secretary-general of NATO. And I'm just prefacing that because I think that meeting, which reinforced solidarity, which reinforced university and which did promise to give much more weaponry to Ukraine. Of course it can't come soon enough. That has probably had an effect on -- as well as the battleground failures on what's happening and what's coming out of the Kremlin now.

But as for coming into the country, you know, it's always worse when you're on the outside. And when you start the journey, you know, all the old instincts kick in. And the old observations, and, you know, it's muscle memory. Once you've done it so much, you tend to get a gut instinct and you tend to be careful when you have to, push the envelope when you can. And just try to really get on the ground and do storytelling, which all of our colleagues have been doing so fantastically for the last more than a month here.

So it's really great to be here because I believe that this is more than just about Ukraine, although it is Ukraine. But it is about all of our futures and everything that we have been raised to believe and to believe in. And that's what the Ukrainians tell me all the time, that this is about freedom, this is about the rule of law, this is about the international world order, and that they are being our soldiers. They are being our soldiers.

And that's why they want our help. And they certainly are getting a lot more help than, for instance, Bosnia did which went through the same exact pattern of aggression but got no help from the international community, none. The victims were not believed, they were considered a bit of a nuisance. Until the massacre at Srebrenica. Very fortunately the Ukrainians have impressed the world with their heart, with their will, with their fighting spirit. And I think that's, you know, that's clear.

LEMON: Yes. And people who want to be in charge of their own destiny.

Christiane, we'll be watching your reports from the region here in Ukraine.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you, Christiane. Appreciate it.

AMANPOUR: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Now to that deadly strike in Mykolaiv in the southern part of Ukraine. Local officials say at least 12 people were killed and 33 injured in a Russian air strike on regional government -- a regional government building in that city.

CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is near there.

Ben, thanks for joining. What more are you learning about this attack?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was an attack that happened at 8:45 this morning. In the very center of this city on the headquarters of the regional governor. A very large building. And when we went to see the site of the blast, it really just took an entire hole out of that structure.

Now, according to local authorities at this point, the death toll is at least 12. At least 33 wounded. Now we saw there were rescue personnel there going through the rubble, trying to find if there are any more casualties in this incident. But the regional governor himself on his Telegram channel said that he had slept late, that's why he was not there at the time. He has been very vocal condemning the Russian invasion and has been very active in trying to keep the moral of this city up through some very difficult days.

[14:10:05]

But this was a strike that happened at a time when Russian forces have been significantly pushed back from the outskirts of the city. In fact we were near the front line today where we saw much outgoing Ukrainian artillery than we did in terms of on the battlefield incoming Russian fire -- Don.

LEMON: And Ben, the mayor of Mariupol is calling for a complete evacuation of its remaining citizens. How dire is the situation there? And listen, I'm asking knowing that the mayor and others have said that there may still be people buried under rubble and that all of the routes to get people out, the humanitarian corridors or whatever are being cut off by Russian soldiers. So what gives here?

WEDEMAN: Well, in fact, he did say yesterday that the death toll, the last reported death toll from that city was around 2,100. But likely to be much higher because given the shelling, the intense Russian shelling of that city, obviously it's very difficult for rescue personnel to actually go out and help people. What we've seen is it's a city that for weeks has had no water, no electricity, no gas.

Their communications connections have been spotty at best, almost completely wiped out. And of course keep in mind that Mariupol is completely encircled by Russian forces. To evacuate, whether it's military personnel or civilians, they depend entirely upon the good will of Russian forces, for some sort of local cease-fire to allow for these humanitarian corridors to function. But as we've seen time and time again, Russian forces have opened fire while people are either gathering to go through these corridors or actually on their way out of Mariupol.

So it's a dire situation. And there doesn't seem to be any bright spot, any light at the end of the tunnel for the remaining inhabitants of that city -- Don.

LEMON: Ben Wedeman on the ground in the region for us. Thank you, Ben. We appreciate that.

Alisyn, that is the latest from Ukraine. Back to you now in New York.

CAMEROTA: OK, Don, thank you very much. We'll check back with you soon.

So CNN has now learned that U.S. intelligence believes Russia's movement away from Kyiv constitutes a major strategy shift. U.S. officials tell CNN that Putin's army is already starting to withdraw troops from around the Ukrainian capital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We have seen over the last few days that the Russian stopped advancing on Kyiv. They certainly were trying to encircle it, couldn't do it, got pushed back to the east by some 55 kilometers by the Ukrainians and then dug in sort of in defensive positions to the north and northwest of Kyiv. Certainly they've got reprioritization in the east and they have stalled in the south.

That's really interesting because in the early days, that's where they were making the most progress. Now the Ukrainians are clawing back territory in the south as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, our colleague Jim Sciutto broke this story and he joins us now for more on his reporting.

So, Jim, what more have you learned about this major strategy shift?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: So what the U.S. is seeing in its latest intelligence assessments is that Russian forces that had been attempting since the start of this invasion to come in from the north and encircle Kyiv, and then take it over and then decapitate the Ukrainian government, that is remove Volodymyr Zelenskyy and put in a friendly puppet regime, that those forces just have not been able to accomplish that.

They've met enormous resistance from the Ukrainian military that in recent days has not just been holding off the Russian advance but forcing them back. They've been making gains on counterattack. So in response to that, Russian forces have begun to withdraw. The U.S. has observed what are known as battalion tactical groups, that's the main Russian combat unit, moving back.

And the U.S. assessment is that Russia has in effect given up for now on that original goal of taking the capital along with large parts of the country to then focus those forces -- you know, they're not going home, they're not going on vacation, they're not going to rebuild any houses that they've bulldozed in this war. They're going to go down to the south and the east where Russia hopes to focus its military attention for less ambitious territorial gains down there.

That doesn't mean that Putin or the military might not change their mind in coming weeks or months if they see an opportunity, but for now the war plans are not going according to Russia's war plan and they've had to pull back.

CAMEROTA: Jim, that's fascinating. Of course Ukrainian soldiers are still being trained and the U.S. military is helping with that. So what do we know?

SCIUTTO: Well, it shows you a couple of things. One, we've been aware of and we've been reporting for weeks now about the enormous number of weapons that the U.S. and NATO have been sending to the Ukrainian military.

[14:15:03]

Weapons that have had big effect on the battlefield. Those shoulder- fired Stinger missiles, those -- that take down aircraft, shoulder- fired Javelin missiles that go at armor tanks, et cetera. They basically turned individual men and women into fighting units that are able to take out much larger pieces of equipment and the soldiers that come with them. That's had a big impact, as has air defenses had a big impact against Russia.

But what we're learning is that we're not just sort of sending them, you know, via UPS into Ukraine, but that first of all getting them to those units, using intelligence to get them to the right units, but also training, making sure that there's training in those weapons systems before they go in because you need those. You need that sort of training to operate them correctly. So it's shows a level of U.S. support for the Ukrainian resistance that we hadn't known really before.

CAMEROTA: Jim, really interesting reporting, thank you very much for sharing all of that.

SCIUTTO: Thank you. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Despite signs of progress and peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, Secretary of State Tony Blinken warns the U.S. has seen no signs of real seriousness by the Kremlin to stop their aggression.

And a spokesperson for Putin says a dialogue between Russia and the U.S. is necessary for next steps. That's next.

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[14:20:44]

CAMEROTA: Just in to CNN, President Biden spoke with his counterparts in France, Germany, Italy and the U.K. today. The European allies, quote, "reaffirmed their determination to continue raising the costs on Russia." They also committed to supply more security assistance to Ukraine.

Also today, a spokesman for the Kremlin talked about the damaged relations between the U.S. and Russia but said dialogue between the two nations is still necessary and in the best interest of the entire world.

Joining us now is former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst. He's now the senior director of the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center.

Ambassador, thanks so much for being here. Let's start with these de- escalation talks between Russia and Ukraine today. So the Ukrainian officials have suggested that some progress was actually made. From what you've read and heard, do you see some hopeful signs that the end of this war might be near?

JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I have been highly skeptical of these talks, but based upon developments today, I'm a bit less skeptical. First the things laid out are interesting. The notion of a neutral Ukraine, but a neutral Ukraine whose security is guaranteed is I think a very interesting one. Of the fact that Russian Ministry of Defense as well as the Russian negotiators have said that as these ideas develop, they will be turning their attention away from Kyiv, in other words, they're not going to be attacking Kyiv so much, and Chernihiv, the city that's been truly under siege, and devote their attentions to the east, still committing aggression but limiting their aggression is also interesting.

A third interesting thing is that a senior Kremlin official, someone close to (INAUDIBLE), has now spoken out kind of in the same vein. That's the first time a truly senior official close to Putin has spoken in this vein. So all these things are interesting and suggest that something may be happening that is positive. However, it's very important to point out that so far we've heard nothing, no real terms on the Russian side.

These are only Ukrainian proposals. And this is a famous Russian negotiating tactic to insist that only your opponent offers things, but then you pick and choose. But still this is interesting, for the first time.

CAMEROTA: Agreed. Agreed. Those things do seem noteworthy and as though maybe they're moving the needle somehow. But let's dive into the security measures, the security guarantees that Ukraine is asking for. So they're basically saying, OK, we won't join NATO, but we do want security guarantees from the E.U. You know, and the U.N. Security Council. Is this just NATO by another name?

HERBST: Well, they've actually mentioned a whole host of possible guarantors. They've mentioned China, they've mentioned Poland, they've mentioned the United States, they've mentioned NATO, they've mentioned India and Israel. So all of these -- and then of course Russia as well. Now we know that the Russian guarantees are worthless because they violated the Budapest Memorandum Guarantees, but the key, the only guarantee that really matters would be a U.S. or a NATO, which includes U.S. guarantee.

And it's not so clear that Moscow would be willing to accept it. And of course, it's still not clear if U.S. and NATO would be willing to offer it. But this is something which needs to be discussed.

CAMEROTA: Here's something else interesting that's happening today. And that is that the Russian Defense minister says that the main tasks of their operation have been completed and, quote, "The main goal of liberating the Donbas." There are also reports as we just heard from all of our correspondents, that the Russian units and troops are withdrawing from around Kyiv. So what does that tell us?

HERBST: Well, that's another reason why I'm not as skeptical today as I was yesterday. That announcement from our government, our intelligence sees Russian troops moving away from Kyiv makes it seem as if the statement coming from the Russian Ministry of Defense, in this case happens to be true, at least temporarily. And that's consistent with what the Russian negotiators were saying. So it does appear that perhaps -- I stress perhaps -- that the Russians are moving to concentrate their military aggression just on Ukraine's east.

[14:25:01]

That's still bad, but better than what we have today. But of course they could turn that around on a dime. But right now, again, we're looking for signs, this is a sign that things may be heading in the right direction.

CAMEROTA: I mean, doesn't it also sound like a sign that they've possibly fastened on a face-saving measure that Vladimir Putin could live with if they have liberated the Donbas?

HERBST: That's correct. That's correct. So they may be willing to accept something less than controlling the entire country, changing the government of the country. Still aggression, still nasty, but not as dangerous and not as nasty as the original objectives.

CAMEROTA: And so all of this would have to be put to a referendum to the Ukrainian people by President Zelenskyy, and so is neutrality a possibility? I mean, this is something that he's floated. Is that the direction that Ukraine is heading in?

HERBST: Certainly Zelenskyy seems to be comfortable with this under certain conditions. And again, provided his people are comfortable with this. But again, keep in mind, what we have heard today, even if it turns out to be true, suggests that there's still going to be a war going on in Ukraine's east and I suspect that also includes Ukraine's south, because the Russian see the battles around Kherson, Mykolaiv all the way to Odessa, which has not yet been -- has been attacked but not truly threatened as part of the, quote-unquote, "east."

CAMEROTA: Well, Ambassador John Herbst, really great to get your insights. Thank you.

HERBST: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: The situation on the ground in Ukraine is still dire, of course, despite some of these positive signs that we're talking about from today's talks. So there are new images out of Kharkiv, buildings charred, windows blown out after the Russian attacks.

We're going to speak to a resident there about what it's really like, next.

And back here, the FDA has authorized a second COVID booster shot for adults 50 and older. Does that mean the last booster has worn off? What does this tell us? All that is ahead.

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