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Ukraine: Russia Hits Fuel Depots In Western Ukraine; U.S.: Russia Has Launched More Than 1,300 Missiles; Ukraine: Russia Trying To Block Supply Routes To Kyiv; Mayor Says Ukraine Forces Reclaimed City Of Irpin; Mayor Calls For "Complete Evacuation" Of Mariupol; U.N. Delivers Food And Supplies To Hard-Hit Kharkiv; Biden On Putin Remark: "I'm Not Walking Anything Back."; Russian Shelling Intensifies In Suburbs Around Kyiv; Russia Shelling Intensifies In Suburbs Around Kyiv; New Round Of Ukraine-Russia Talks Set To Begin In Istanbul; Inside Europe's Largest Ukrainian Refuges Hub; EU Aggress On Plan For Registering, Transporting Refugees; Poland Overwhelmed By Magnitude Of Refugee Crisis; Supply Routes to Kyiv Obstructed by Russians; Russia to Use Nuclear Weapons to Eliminate Threat; Over 150,00 Civilians Remain in Mariupol; Mariupol Lost Nearly 5,000 Civilians; Zelenskyy's Interview Banned by Russian Officials; Russia, Digital Iron Wall Prevents Access to Information on War; "Open Source Intel" Assists Ukraine's Combat Effort; Will Smith Expresses Regret for Striking Chris Rock; Smith Expressed Regret to the Academy and Fellow Nominees; Exclusion of Will Smith from Oscars "Strongly Considered" by Academy; Interview with Senior Researcher at Citizen Lab at The University of Toronto, John Scott-Railton. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired March 29, 2022 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:22]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome everyone to our viewers joining us here in the United States, and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.
We begin this hour with breaking news. A new strategy emerging in Russia's war on Ukraine. Russian forces are largely stalled on the ground, so they are firing missiles at fuel depots across the country. One of the latest attacks struck the Rivne Region in Western Ukraine along with strikes on Lutsk, and right there in the Lviv where Hala Gorani is, and will join us very soon.
Now, the attacks come as Russia and Ukraine battle for control of key cities. A senior U.S. Defense Officials says Russia has fired more than 1,300 missiles since the invasion started late last month.
Ukraine's Deputy Defense Minister claims Russian forces are trying to establish a corridor around the Capital Kyiv to block humanitarian supply routes. She says Ukrainian soldiers and Kyiv residents are defending the city making it very difficult for the Russians.
The mayor of Irpin, West of Kyiv, says his city has been reclaimed. He says wounded Russian soldiers are offering to surrender or they will be destroyed.
New drone footage shows the utter devastation in the southern port city of Mariupol. The mayor is calling for a complete evacuation of remaining civilians and estimated 160,000 people.
Well, Kharkiv in the East is another city that suffered brutal Russian attacks. The U.N. and its partners say they were able to deliver food and medical supplies to the area on Monday.
Meanwhile, U.S. President Joe Biden says he is sticking by his comments over the weekend that Russian President, Vladimir Putin, quote, "Cannot remain in power."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm not walking anything back. The fact of the matter is I was expressing the more outrage I felt toward the way Putin is dealing and the actions of this man, which is just brutality, half the children in Ukraine. I just come from being with those families.
And so-- but I want to make it clear, I wasn't then nor am I now particularly in a policy change. I was expressing more outrage that I felt nobody believes we're going to take down I was going to-- I was talking about taking down Putin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Russia was intensifying its shelling of the suburbs around Kyiv as a senior U.S. Defense Official says troops have made no progress and moving towards the capital to the north in a village hit by relentless attacks. New images show how the war has destroyed homes and shattered lives.
CNN's Frederik Pleitgen gives us a firsthand look at the devastation. And we do want to warn you, some images are graphic.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kyiv remains under full on attack by Vladimir Putin's army. Ukrainian official saying Russian forces are trying to storm the capital but failing, unleashing artillery barrages on civilian areas in the process.
We drove to the village Novi Petrivtsi, north of Kyiv, only a few miles from the front line. Even the streets here are pockmarked with shrapnel and massive impact craters. Whole buildings laid to waste.
I mean, just look at the utter destruction caused by this massive explosion. There's some really thick brick walls and even they were annihilated by the force of whatever landed here. The people here tell us they only felt one really large explosion, and it wounded several people and kill the small child.
That child was 2-year-old, Stepan killed while in his bed when the house came under fire. These videos given to us by local authorities show the chaos in the aftermath as the wounded appear in shock. Residents and rescuers tried to save those who were inside. Stepan pronounced dead on the scene.
Stepan was Oleg Shpak's second youngest child. We found Oleg sifting through the rubble of his house days later.
OLEG SHPAK, UKRAINIAN CITIZEN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
Inside he shows me the damage caused by the explosion. He was at work when his home was hit. His wife, the other children, and his mother- in-law had already been brought to the hospital when he arrived at the house.
Stepan couldn't be saved. And because of staff shortages at the morgue, Oleg had to prepare his son's body for burial himself.
SHPAK (through translator): I had to wash him, to dress him. His head from his right ear to his left ear, one large hematoma. His arms, his legs. A total hematoma not compatible with life.
[02:05:15]
SHPAK (through translator): And besides that, lots of other wounds were discovered after death.
PLEITGEN: Many other houses have also been hit here. The police tell me the Russians shell the town every day. We bumped into 84-year-old, Halyna in the town center. She was a child when the Nazis invaded this area and says now things are worse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Worse than fascists when the Germans were here and entered our homes, they would shoot at the ceiling but they would not touch us. They move the scene to the woods, but they did not shoot us like the Russian soldiers are shooting now killing children.
PLEITGEN: The Kremlin claims its forces don't target civilian areas. But the U.S., NATO, and the Ukrainian say the Russians are frustrated by their lack of progress and are firing longer range weapons because they can't make headway on the ground.
VLADYSLAV ODINTSOV, REGIONAL POLICE, KYIV, UKRAINE (through translator): They understand that sooner or later our troops will push them out of our territory. Now, the Russians are doing dirty tricks. They shoot more at civilian areas than the positions of the Ukrainian army.
PLEITGEN: Ukraine's army says it's pressing its own counter offensive trying to dislodge Russian troops from the outskirts of Kyiv. The Kremlin's forces meanwhile, so far unable to take the Ukrainian Capital or instead laying waste to its suburbs. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Novi Petrivtsi, Ukraine.
CHURCH: And Hala Gorani joins us now from Lviv in Ukraine. Hala.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: All right. Thanks so much, Rosemary. We'll talk to you in a little bit. Now, against the backdrop of Russia's widespread destruction in
Ukraine, new round of peace talks will begin in Turkey in the coming hours. Both delegations arrived in Istanbul, Monday. Russia has demands for recognition of Crimea's annexation and independence for Donbas are major sticking points.
But Ukraine's President, Zelenskyy says the obvious goals of these latest talks are peace and the restoration of normal life.
With more on this, Atika Shubert joins us from Valencia, Spain. So expectations are low. However, we are hearing at least from Turkish authorities that there appear to be some positive developments at least in phone calls preceding this round of talks, Atika.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, there does seem to be at least some draft agreement in-- going around where they're trying to go through these points. I think there's still a lot of sticking points, certainly from the Ukrainian side, they said nearly every point on it still has a lot to go through.
However, the fact I think, is that there does seem to be common ground on this issue of neutrality. This is something that the Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, told Russian journalists in an interview said that, you know, Ukraine is willing to accept neutrality, meaning that it would not become a part of NATO. But as long as it had security guarantees.
Now, this is one of Russia's main conditions as well. It does not want to see Ukraine become a member of NATO. So, the question then is, what kind of security guarantees does Ukraine need? Who would the countries be to guarantee that security? And what shape would that take? I think those are the kinds of details that they're hoping to work on and hammer out.
And then the next question becomes, how to deal with it legally? Because it's actually embedded in Ukraine's constitution to become a member of NATO. So, what Zelenskyy has offered, and again, this is something he said in that interview with independent Russian journalists, is that if there is some sort of a ceasefire agreement which guarantees Ukraine's neutrality, it would require a referendum by the Ukrainian people, and then ultimately, a change in the Constitution. But that's a process that would take months and at least a year, if not more.
So, we are beginning to see something takes shape. We'll see whether or not we get any more details as the talks continue in Turkey, but that is a glimmer of hope now, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Atika, thanks very much. Atika Shubert reporting.
The British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson is promising Ukraine he will turn up the economic pressure on Russia. The comments came in a phone call with the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy.
Meanwhile, the top British diplomat has a warning for Ukraine ahead of those talks with Russia in Turkey. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ TRUSS, FOREIGN SECRETARY, COMMONWEALTH AND DEVELOPMENT AFFAIRS OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: We need to ensure that any future talks don't end up selling Ukraine out, or repeating the mistakes of the past. We remember the uneasy settlements in 2014 which failed to give Ukraine lasting security. Putin just came back for more, that is why we cannot allow him to win from this appalling aggression and why this government is determined Putin's regime should be held to account the International Criminal Court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[02:10:15]
GORANI: Liz Truss, the British Foreign Secretary. Orysia Lutsevych is the head of the Ukraine Forum at Chatham House. And she joins us from London.
How much pressure is it putting on these oligarchs? All of these sanctions that have been put in place against some of these mega billionaires in cities like London? Are they making any difference strategically on putting pressure on the Kremlin in your view?
ORYSIA LUTSEVYCH, RESEARCH FELLOW, CHATHAM HOUSE: Well, the sanctions they have two tracks. One is actually to target and cripple the Russian economy and to dry out Putin war chest, to ensure he basically struggles to finance and rearm and shooted (ph) Ukraine ballistic missiles.
Another one is, of course, this private individuals with a hope that there will be a crack within the support for Putin and some descend and possible removal from power. I mean, honestly, this individuals have limited power. We do know that they've got rich because of Putin, because of the state, and they are to a certain degree at the service of the state. Some of them may be courageous enough to try to express some of their dissent.
But look, it's been a one month of war, and only one or two individuals said they do not support this war. Abramowicz (ph) did it, Friedman (ph) did it. But overall, I think they are very much repressed by Putin's regime themselves.
GORANI: And what about the sector wide in economic sanctions against the state itself? How much is that starving Putin of his ability to finance this war four or five weeks and now?
LUTSEVYCH: Hala, of course, this is the most important thing. And if we remember what President Biden said, he said the sanctions have to cripple the Russian economy. Boris Johnson says Putin must fail. This is the strategic objective.
Of course, they have caused a substantial damage. We see that Russian stock market here in London collapsed, Russian ruble is falling, there's inflation. Their shelves are being empty. But what further has to be done is of course, oil and gas embargo.
This is what President Zelenskky calls for. This is what you asked has already done. But Europe is slow. So there could be a first step to remove Russian oil from the European market cold.
GORANI: Yes.
LUTSEVYCH: But eventually, this has to happen faster.
GORANI: Right. And it's the progressive approach rather than an entire sector wide embargo. What about these talks in Turkey? Are there some sort of outline of at least to points that can and should be discussed? Do you have any level of optimism at this stage?
LUTSEVYCH: On my level of optimism comes from the fact that Putin is not achieving his objectives that he set up at the onset of the war, and exactly those sanctions are very serious. So he's thinking hard how to maneuver out of this situation. Clearly, he's ready for some concessions. But it's also important that whichever ceasefire there is, Russian troops must withdraw to their positions.
So this is what, you know, actually, Ukrainian society demands. Ninety percent of Ukrainians believe they can repel aggression, and they do not want ceasefire if Russians don't pull back.
So President Zelenskyy must act upon that consensus in the society. Look, I think it's important these talks take place. But as I said, there will be still a lot of push and pull before anything substantial emerges out of these negotiations.
GORANI: But that being said, as you mentioned, the Russians have not at all achieved their objectives in order to secure the majority Russian speaking city of Mariupol, which is they alleged they were going into liberate.
They had to turn it basically into a pile of rubble for these Russian that separatists and then grotesquely almost, plant their flag on a mountain of destroyed building.
They're not achieving what they want to achieve without massive, massive damage to civilian infrastructure.
LUTSEVYCH: Well, absolutely. I think it's a real debacle for Putin. He underestimated Ukraine's resolve, Ukraine's armed forces, and also assistance from the West.
Clearly, this is also a propaganda war. He needs these images of Russian victories even if it's over the rubble to show Russian citizens that they are progressing in their-- in the special operation.
But he knows it deep down that he can at best keep some territories in the southeast (ph) that he has captured that are completely destroyed. But that doesn't give him this political victory he wanted over Kyiv.
But we see pressure on Kyiv. So he's not giving up completely the battle for Kyiv and we've seen--
GORANI: Yes.
LUTSEVYCH: -- horrific images of these villages around Kyiv.
[02:15:09]
LUTSEVYCH: So, you know, this war is reaching a new stage--
GORANI: Absolutely.
LUTSEVYCH: -- a new phase. But we'll see how it evolves.
GORANI: Absolutely. Orysia Lutsevych, thank you as always for joining us. I appreciate your analysis.
A packed convention hall in the Polish Capitol has transformed into the largest hub for Ukrainian refugees in all of Europe. We'll take you inside after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, the European Union's Home Affairs Commissioner says children a make up half of the refugees from Ukraine who've arrived into the EU. And that's some 800,000 people have already applied for temporary EU protection. That's out of nearly 4 million who fled Ukraine since the invasion.
Meanwhile, European leaders say this refugee crisis must not mirror the migrant crisis of 24-- 15 that exposed infighting and the shortcomings of Europe's asylum system.
EU interior ministers have now apparently agreed on a block wide plan for registering refugees as well as coordinating transportation, this one does not involve quotas.
[02:20:12]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YLVA JOHANSON, COMMISSIONER FOR HOME AFFAIRS, EU: We are not working on any quotas or any distribution of migrants towards some specific quotas. This is voluntarily where member states step in, and say we can do more. And they are doing that right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the constant bombardment by Russian forces has forced millions of Ukrainians over the border to Poland where resources and workers are being pushed to their limits.
Kyung Lah takes us inside one refugee center in Warsaw that is overwhelmed.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nothing can help 5-year-old Yon (ph) understand how he and his mother ended up here. A packed convention hall in Warsaw, Poland filled with thousands of Ukrainians.
He's constantly afraid. He's always afraid?
KATYA KRUSH, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE (through translator): He's afraid to sleep alone, says his mother Katay Kursh, after nights in this basement, as Russian missiles leveled his neighborhood two hours North Kyiv.
Everything is fine, she tells him. Are you sure there's nothing flying here? He asks.
TOMASZ SZYPULA, PRESIDENT, PTAK WARSAW EXPO: They even don't know why they're here. They think maybe they come for some kind of vacation or-- it's--
LAH: They don't comprehend?
SZYPULA: No.
LAH: Because they're too young.
SZYPULA: They are too young.
LAH: Multiply Yon by 1000s of people a day. And that's who Tomasz Szypula's trying to help at what's now the largest Ukrainian refugee hub in all of Europe with up to 7,000 refugees here a day.
SZYPULA: I must work, you know, and I don't have to think about such things too much because it's really difficult and it's a tragedy. You'll see. That's-- it's better not to think about that.
LAH: The 1.5 million square foot Expo was now a gateway to the rest of the world where after crossing into Poland, refugees begin the real process, finding a temporary life beyond war.
They're waiting to go somewhere.
SZYPULA: Yes. (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Estonia.
LAH: Estonia.
SZYPULA: Yes. They're getting to Estonia.
LAH: Those with no destination, wait. How long has this been going on?
SZYPULA: It's less than a month.
LAH: Less than a month.
SZYPULA: Yes.
LAH: That becomes more challenging as a war stretches on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE) LAH: Thank you, Warsaw, says this woman Ukrainian. One of the more than 2 million Ukrainian refugees who have arrived in Poland. More than 300,000 in Warsaw alone.
MAYOR RAFAL TRZASKOWSKI, WARSAW, POLAND: The Polish people will welcome Ukrainians whatever happens because they are fighting for our freedom. And we do understand that. But of course there is a certain limits, human limits what we can do.
LAH: When you say you're at capacity, what do you mean?
TRZASKOWSKI: We've offered as a country free education, free health care to all of our guests, which of course means that you know, our schools are going to be filled within weeks, that our hospitals are going to jam.
LAH: Warsaw's Mayor says no one will be turned away. But he needs help to help Yon, his mother, and the people of Ukraine.
The Polish people accepted us well, she says.
KRUSH: They are good people.
LAH: Good people.
KRUSH: Yes, good people.
LAH: The mayor says that what he would really like to see is some sort of official system between the Polish National Government and International and European allies to streamline this entire process.
And he left us with this astonishing statistic. He says that there are now 30 percent more school aged children in Warsaw than there was just one month ago. Kyung Lah, CNN, Warsaw, Poland.
GORANI: Well, if you'd like to safely help people in Ukraine who need basic things like shelter and water. Go to cnn.com/impact there are several ways listed there for you to help.
Still ahead on CNN. Russian forces appear closer than ever to taking a key city in southern Ukraine, or at least what's left of it. We'll look inside the besieged city of Mariupol after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:29:13]
GORANI: Welcome back, everybody. It is almost 9:30 a.m. here in Lviv, Western Ukraine where it is an overcast day, and it has just started drizzling.
Russian and Ukrainian officials have arrived in Turkey for another round of negotiations to end this war in this country. But on the ground, the devastation continues. Russian forces are hitting fuel depots across Ukraine including this
one in the Western City of Lutsk. We're also getting a new look at the destruction left behind in Ukraine's second largest city, Kharkiv.
On Monday, the United Nations said that it had been able to bring food, medicine, and other humanitarian supplies into this city. Look at this devastated landscape.
In the Capital Kyiv though, Ukraine's deputy defense minister says Russian forces are now attempting to block supply routes around the city. And fierce fighting has continued in keeps suburbs for days as Ukraine forces attempt to retake areas near the capital.
And on Monday, Ukrainian officials said troops, had successfully reclaimed the suburb of Irpin. To the South, however, the besieged City of Mariupol appears closer than ever to falling under complete Russian control. Ukraine says, its forces are maintaining a defense inside the city but the mayor says, evacuation corridors out of Mariupol are now largely controlled by Russian troops.
Meanwhile, the Kremlin still is not ruling out deploying nuclear weapons if Russia faces an existential threat. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DMITRY PESKOV, KREMLIN SPOKEPERSON: In the outcome of the attrition, of course, is not reason for usage of a nuclear weapon. We have a security concept, that very clearly states that, only when there is a threat for existence of the state in our country, we can use and we will actually use nuclear weapons to eliminate the threat for the existence of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: While, as I mentioned before, the Southern Port City of a Mariupol has been the scene of intense fighting for weeks now. Thousands of civilians are still trapped there even as Russian forces inch closer to taking control. CNN's, Phil Black, has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Russia is so close to taking the prize of Mariupol. These soldiers are already celebrating. The flag going up on this local government building is one from the Russian-backed separatist regions in Ukraine's East.
The Ukrainians peeled off, praise the all mighty, this soldier says. The guys are in a good mood and we are working according to the order of Putin.
We get rare glimpses of Russia's efforts to take the city street by street. These soldiers are from the Russian Republic of Chechnya. It's propaganda video from their leader, which CNN has geolocated to Mariupol.
Mariupol's Mayor, Vadym Boychenko, tells me the fight isn't over. BLACK (on camera): What has happened or what has happened to the Ukrainian soldiers defending Mariupol? Are there any left?
BLACK (voiceover): They hold the line and they stand to the end, he says. To the last drop of blood.
It's not only Ukrainian soldiers trapped here. This city council estimates there are still around 170,000 civilians in this devastated city. And 90 percent of homes have been damaged or destroyed.
Valentina enters what's left of the only home she's ever known, the place where she raised her family. She wasn't here when the shell hit. She's been hiding in the basement. She doesn't want to leave. She knows that she can't stay. But many will never leave. The council says, almost 5,000 people have been killed during the four weeks siege, including more than 200 children.
Russia is so close to taking its prize. But it will be a blackened shell of a city and it's unlikely the people they're conquering will ever forgive them. Phil Black, CNN, Lviv, Western Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, I'll have more from Lviv at the top of the hour. For now, though, I'll turn it over to Rosemary Church at the CNN Center. Rosemary.
CHURCH: Thank you so much, Hala. Appreciate it.
Well, still to come, amid the outpouring of social media post from Ukraine, one group is trying to use that information to turn the tide of war against Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SCOTT-RAILTON, SR. RESEARCHER, THE CITIZEN LAB, UNIV. OF TORONTO: Putin's whole strategy of war and his way thinking are analog, and we hope a thing of the past. And here's what the future looks like, it's happening now. The world is watching. And documenting what it's doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: After the break, more on the online army using video, like this, to help Ukraine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:35:00]
BARRY HURST, ENERGY AND SUSTAINABILITY DIRECTOR, SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC: I'm Barry Hurst, Energy and Sustainability Director at Schneider Electric.
Schneider Electric was ranked the world's most sustainable company in 2021 by Corporate Knights. And it drew a lot of attention to what we've been working on now for over 10 years. So, I think the important thing to emphasize is that, it's a long-term commitment and that it takes a lot of organization to really make big strides.
So, the advice I would give is to do strategy and action in parallel. We see a lot of companies who have a strategy but are unsure on how to implement it. And we see companies that have -- want to get action, but don't have a clear strategy. So, I would say, always do the -- two in parallel if you want to get maximum impact and really accelerate your journey.
CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Well, while Ukraine's President Zelenskyy maybe winning the information war in his country, Vladimir Putin has built a digital iron curtain around his. This prevents ordinary Russians from getting information or opinions the Kremlin doesn't want that access to. The latest item added to the information blacklist, President Zelenskyy's interview with independent Russian journalist. CNN's Matthew Chance has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): This was a groundbreaking interview with what's the Kremlin sees as an enemy, Head of State, and the first for Russian journalists covering this war. But for many Russians, the words of President Zelenskyy, including his offers of compromise for peace, we'll never be heard. Russian authorities banning the interview before it was even broadcast. And now vowing to investigate the journalists who carried it out. Journalist like, Tikhon Dzyadko, the editor-in-chief of TV Rain, an independent Russia channel forced off the air earlier this month.
No to war, his editorial staff said. As they walked off their Moscow set.
TIKHON DZYADKO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, TV RAIN: There is a digital iron curtain on the Ukrainian topic in Russia. And we see that there is a, I would say, military censorship in Russia. And all the information, which is not going from Russian Minister of Defense or from Kremlin, is forbidden.
[02:40:00]
So, it is really important to tell the people the truth or at least to tell them what the other side of the conflict of the war thinks.
CHANCE (on camera): Why do you think it is so important for the Kremlin to keep such a tight grip on that flow of information and on the message, they want Russian people to hear?
DZYADKO: Almost the whole story of Russian war in Ukraine is a big lie. Just from the beginning. Even the word war is not being used by the Russian government. We understand that this is not true. We understand that there is a war. We understand that a lot of civilians die there every day. And we understand that a lot of Russian soldiers, as well, die there every day. And, Vladimir Zelenskyy, he is the person who has a lot of information on what is going on there. And of course, he gave us this information during this interview. And of course, the Russian government doesn't want this information to be spread in Russia.
CHANCE (voiceover): This is what the Kremlin does want Russians to see. Blanket coverage on state media of it's a special military operation, the Russian forces cast as liberators and heroes.
There have been displays of dissent, like this one journalist, holding up an anti-war placard during Russia's main daily news cast. The program is quickly cut away. But for millions of Russians, the idea their country is a force for good, fighting Neo-Nazis in Ukraine being welcomed by the people there is much more appealing than the hard truth.
CHANCE (on camera): Why is it such a successful strategy? Why are people so ready to believe that propaganda?
DZYADKO: There is a huge part of the Russian society, of people who are in denial. People who just do not want to admit that their country, our country, my country, is bombing civilian objects and schools and hospitals, et cetera, et cetera. It's hard to admit that maybe there is something very wrong with your homeland. And that somehow, we as a citizen of Russia, is somehow responsible for it.
CHANCE (voiceover): Hard to admit, perhaps, but with tough new information laws increasingly illegal, too. Russia's criminalizing of the truth is this war's latest casualty. Matthew chance, CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: And as much as Russia wants to control the narrative around its invasion of Ukraine. A volunteer group of analysts is working to make sure information about the war is truthfully shared. The community calls itself, Open-Source Intelligence. These everyday people have made a hobby out of tracking Russian and Ukrainian forces in real-time by geolocating pictures from the battlefield. And it's making a difference. No, the Ukraine government's mobile app allows users to submit geotagged media tracking the movement of Russian troops.
John Scott-Railton is a Senior Researcher at the Citizen Lap at the University of Toronto, he joins me now. Good to have you with us.
JOHN SCOTT-RAILTON, SR. RESEARCHER, THE CITIZEN LAB, UNIV. OF TORONTO: Good to be here.
CHURCH: So, Russia's war on Ukraine is turning ordinary Twitter users into Twitter spies, apparently, taking the time to verify video of bombed out civilian targets by geolocating and analyzing social media chatter of witnesses then sharing that analysis to help determine who is responsible. How helpful do you think this is?
SCOTT-RAILTON: Well, I like to think of it not in terms of Twitter spies, but in terms of a giant ecosystem of accountability that happens around every big conflict these days. The world is filled with people who care and who have some kind of esoteric expertise. And now, using Twitter and social media, they can actually contribute, not only to the conversation around something but also to finding out facts. I think it's incredibly important and we see its value wherever we scratch.
CHURCH: And of course, these Twitter spies tend to be ordinary people with ordinary jobs, they're doing this on the side. Some of them, they call it, their hobby. They say that war moves quickly, so they are offering a service for free that lends a hand to determining the truth and fight against propaganda. Do you agree with all of that?
SCOTT-RAILTON: I do. But I think the characterization of spies is a little bit risky, and I'll tell you why. I think a lot of people engaged in this, not in order to be spies, but because they truly see that something wrong is happening. And they care about accountability and consequences. And in many cases, they care about the plight of Ukrainian people.
And so, what I see this conflict as having done is really enlisted so many people who care and who want to do something about what's happened.
[02:45:00]
And maybe the skillset that they can bring is attention to detail or willingness to watch hundreds of hours of videos to try to figure out whether a particular film or piece of clip was filmed in a certain location.
CHURCH: And, presumably, some of these users, these Twitter users are better than others. And all this information is checked and verified. But do you have any concerns that sharing geolocation data, for instance, could put lives at risk, as some critics have suggested? And shoulder there be specific protocols put in place for what some people are calling Twitter spies, you prefer not to?
SCOTT-RAILTON: The world of OSINT, or Open-Source Investigation is vast. And what's remarkable is in the last decade we really seen it go from being something that was, in many ways, I think extremely amateurish and experimental to something where there are norms and best practices. We see large accounts, even organizations like Bellingcat, really developing a sophisticated, and I would argue -- ethical way of doing this and modeling good behavior for others to follow.
Obviously, there are lots of risks around this kind of activity. Whether it's the risk of inadvertently outing somebody who's filmed the video, or perhaps even giving Russia clues about just how accurate their artillery is. That said, I think we're watching, very much learning happening, in real-time as volunteers from around the world figure out what some of these risks are. Of course, there are real concerns. But this kind of activity is going to happen in any conflict -- in around any conflict these days. And what's so important, is that people watch and learn how to do it better and more carefully.
CHURCH: Right. And of course, this group, they refer to themselves as Open-Source Intelligence Community, tracking the movements of both the Russian and Ukrainian troops on line. Their findings have been impacting strategy on the ground. Ukraine finding, they work particularly crucial for locating Russian troops. Is this the changing face of war, do you think, where ordinary people play this critical role in holding accountable, some of these countries, for the war crimes they're committing in this instance, Russia?
SCOTT-RAILTON: Well, in this case, I'd -- of Ukraine -- and so the fact that there is this massive global ad hoc community of people who are surfacing information about potential war crimes. Documenting what's going on. And revealing information that Russian troops, I think, is tremendously helpful to both what Ukraine perhaps is doing militarily, but also to the information war and to the role that Ukraine is playing in it. And to the global understanding of what is happening in Ukraine.
Clearly, Putin, if he had his way, would be cutting off the world from knowing what he was doing. He certainly tries to do it in Russia and he's tried to do it in other conflicts around the world. In this case, he can't. And the work of his community really highlights just the horrors of what he's inflicting on the Ukrainian people.
CHURCH: Yes. Well put. John Scott-Railton, thank you so much for talking with us. We appreciate it.
SCOTT-RAILTON: My pleasure.
CHURCH: Fascinating story there. Well, still to come, the fallout from the slap seen around the world.
ANDREW KIGUEL, CEO, TOKENS.COM: We think of the metaverse as the next iteration of social media. And although there's only a few hundred thousand people using it today, we anticipate that over the next few years, there's going to be millions of people joining these platforms and eventually billions of people using these platforms.
This is not a fad. I mean, we can look at companies like Facebook during the largest rebrand in history to meta. You can look at companies like Samsung. Even the fashion brands like Gucci, Balenciaga, Adidas, and Nike are all establishing a presence there.
And so, what I would say to people that are still skeptical, saying this, you know, are maybe the same type of people who were skeptical about social media and its impact on advertising. And maybe people who are skeptical around the internet. My prediction is that within 24 months, every single large corporation is going to have to need a presence in the metaverse the same way they need a website.
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[02:50:00]
Welcome back, everyone. Will Smith has issued an apology for slapping Chris Rock at Sunday's Academy Awards. On Instagram, Smith wrote, violence in all forms as poisonous and destructive. My behavior at last night's Academy Awards was unacceptable and inexcusable. Jokes at my expense are part of the job, but a joke about Jada's medical condition was too much for me to bear and I reacted emotionally. I would like to publicly apologize to you, Chris. I was out of line and I was wrong. I am embarrassed and my actions were not indicative of the man I want to be. There is no place for violence in the world of love and kindness.
Well, in the meantime, the Motion Picture Academy is launching a formal review into Smith's conduct. CNN's Brian Todd has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS ROCK, ACTOR: I'm out here. Oh. Wow. Wow.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is launching a formal review to determine whether star actor Will Smith will be disciplined for the slap heard around the world. And in a new statement, the Academy says, it condemns Smith for slapping comedian Chris Rock during the Oscars telecast. The incident was touched off when Rock, while presenting an award, made a joke about Smith's wife, Actress Jada Pinkett Smith, and her shaved head.
ROCK: Jada, I love, you. G.I. Jane II, can't wait to see it.
TODD (voiceover): Jada Pinkett Smith who rolled her eyes at the joke suffer some alopecia, an auto immune disorder that causes hair loss.
ROCK: That was a nice one. OK. I'm out here -- uh-oh. Oh. Wow. Wow.
TODD (voiceover): Just after the slap, censors muted the telecast. But an uncensored Japanese feed shows Smith yelling the same phrase at Rock twice after slapping him.
ROCK: Will Smith just smacked the -- out of me.
WILL SMITH, ACTOR: Keep my name wife's out your -- mouth.
ROCK: Wow. Dude.
SMITH: Yes.
ROCK: It was a G.I. Jane joke.
SMIKTH: Keep my wife's name out of your -- mouth.
TODD (voiceover): After the ceremony, the Academy tweeted a short statement saying, it does not condone violence of any form.
[02:55:00]
But Smith was allowed to go on stage and speak after winning the Oscar for best actor for the film, "King Richard", where he cheerfully apologized, but not too Chris Rock.
SMITH: I want to apologize to the Academy. I want to apologize to my -- all my fellow nominees. Art imitates life. I look like the crazy father just like they said. I look like crazy father just like they said about Richard Williams. But love will make you do crazy things.
TODD (voiceover): A source, close to the situation, now tells CNN, the Academy leadership strongly considers removing Smith from the telecast after the incident. But that the decision makers were seated in different places and couldn't mobilize to make a decision before Smith received the award.
Later that evening, an editor from "Variety" posted this video of Smith dancing at an after party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD (on camera): CNN has reached out to the Academy to see what discipline may come, we have reached out to Will Smith's publicist for comment and to Chris Rock's representatives. The LAPD says, Rock declined to press charges. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
CHURCH: And thanks for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. More of our breaking news coverage in just a moment.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN. More people get their news from CNN than any other news source.
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: A Mediterranean diet offers a number of health benefits. Here are some easy steps to start your journey into the Mediterranean style of eating.
Cook with extra virgin olive oil instead of butter, margarine, or refined oils, like soybean and canola oil. At foods rich in healthy fats to recipes and snacks. These include, sunflower seeds, nuts, olives, and avocados. Choose whole grain bread and pasta instead of the refined varieties and eat less red meat. Instead, add fish and other seafood to a few meals each week.
Also, snack on lots of fruits and vegetables. Adding a starter salad to each meal is a great way to get more greens.
