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Pentagon: No Troops Seen Being Sent To Home Bases In Russia; DOJ's Probe Into Hunter Biden's Business Activities Heats Up. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired March 30, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: This was out of that area and lighting the load in the attacks in and around Kyiv. That just is not happening.

The follow-on question with that is, are they moving them into the Donbas? Are they moving them to Luhansk or Donetsk for additional attacks there? John's answer was we don't know yet.

And as you have the map on the board right now, we'll show from north of Kyiv to the Russian-backed separatists-controlled areas that's on your map, it's about 500 miles. So, what we're talking about is this isn't like Barbara Eden, "I Dream of Jeannie", where she wiggles her nose and suddenly, they reappear somewhere else.

It will take time to either have them go back to their home bases which John alluded to and it will take a lot more time to have those units who have been mauled in the fight against Kyiv to reconsolidate, to regenerate, to perhaps combine with other units that have been mauled into the kind of units that could go back into the fight in places like Izyum or Mariupol.

So, he answered that question very well. His comment on Mariupol I think was really important where he said the town had been devastated. I think that's the best description right now. All indicators and all intelligence shows that there are pockets of resistance, if you will, from Ukrainian forces still fighting from Mariupol but the Russians don't care. They are just destroying the city. So, all of that, you know, is important to realize because it kind of gives me a clue and reinforces some of the things I've heard about what is (AUDIO GAP) different axes of advance that Russia initially planned as they went into Ukraine.

Russia is defeated to a degree in several of those axes. They have been defeated in Kyiv. They have been stopped and somewhat defeated in Kharkiv. They had very major problems in the western approach to Mykolaiv. They have been very successful in destroying the city of Mariupol.

And we haven't seen yet any kind of major attacks in the Donbas. So, that's kind of the evaluation of the theater just as much as Russia is moving forces around, so is Ukraine. Russia has a harder time because they've got longer distances to go. Ukrainian forces have what we call interior lines, they can move left and right or front and back. Russia has to go all the way around that 1,400 mile perimeter of Ukraine to get to a new theater.

So, those are some of the things that I saw in John's presentation, which once again was in my view brilliant. He's very good at what he does.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Oren, you specifically asked about what's happening in Mariupol, because we can see with our own eyes that it has been devastated, as John Kirby and the general just said. And you were asking about carpet bombing and he wouldn't answer that. I wonder why, since it looks like it's been the site of something like carpet bombing.

And what else is happening there?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I think given what we have seen in Mariupol from the images on the ground when there were more reporters in there. Now, it's very difficult to report there at all, from the satellite images we have seen, I was just curious the Pentagon would go as far as to characterize it as a carpet bombing campaign which is to flatten the city or a scorched earth campaign which is much the same. Flatten the city and make sure it can't be inhabitable anytime in the near future until it would be a massive rebuilding effort.

He wouldn't go that far, but in the words he used, devastated, decimated, I don't know that there's that much of a difference between those characterizations. And again, we all see the horror of what's happening there, the horror of the Russian campaign there. I'll point out one more bit he talked about, one more area as he talked about Donbas and the possible refitting and repositioning of Russian troops there.

He said he had not seen that yet from troops near Kyiv and it's absolutely right to point out that would simply take more than 24 hours to do that. But he also about the infamous mercenary group, Wagner Group. About 1,000, that's first time we heard the number from the Pentagon. About 1,000 Wagner group mercenaries operating in Donbas now. What does that tell us?

First, they've been operating there for eight years, ever since Russia has tried to make more in roads there. But now, with the increase of Wagner Group forces there, it's an indication of how important is for Russia and what there goal is now after they've shifted away, to some extent at least, from trying to take over Kyiv and take over large swaths of entire country.

They're refocusing now with the mercenary they've used not only in Ukraine, but also in the Middle East and Africa, an indication of how important it is to Russia and where we should focus now. Not to say we should focus away from Kyiv, but this is where Russia is aiming its forces, aiming its power and aiming its brutality at the moment.

[15:05:06]

CAMEROTA: Oren Liebermann, retired Lt. General Mark Hertling, thank you very much for all the context here.

Let's bring in CNN's Don Lemon. He is in Lviv. Of course, that's the western part of Ukraine.

So, Don, you know, tell us what you're seeing. We know the Russian army is continuing to conduct that, quote, full scaled arm aggression regardless of what they claimed yesterday.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, absolutely, you're right about that, Alisyn. And we just heard John Kirby say that there are no signs of a pull back or de-escalation here, especially Mariupol as you have been discussing.

So, I want to go now to Ukraine's capital and that's Kyiv, CNN senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen joins us from there.

Fred, a senior Ukrainian official tells CNN that there were no areas of the entire country where missiles, missile sirens did not go off overnight. What have you been hearing and seeing in last 24 hours?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we certainly have been hearing a lot of sirens, Don. And we also have been hearing a lot of shelling as well.

In fact, I just -- about an hour ago, I came back from one of those front line areas. We were just outside of that district of Irpin where, of course, some of the fiercest fighting has been taking place taking place really since this conflict. The Russians, of course, from there tried to force forward into the Ukrainian capital, into Kyiv, but they were held off by Ukrainian forces.

And now, the Ukrainian forces say that they've at least somewhat push them back. And out there, you could the entire time hear massive shelling. And this wasn't something that was intermittent. It was something that was going on really the entire time, so really heavy weapons being used there. So, certainly, here in Kyiv, there is very little evidence to show that the Russians might be scaling down their operations, or moving their forces back.

However, we have been speaking with Ukrainian officials, both with the Ukrainian defense officials and also with the interior ministry as well. And they do say there's some circumstantial evidence that maybe some Russian forces might be leaving the area, might be trying to regroup, might be trying to go toward Belarus.

But they certainly don't trust that would be some sort of a full withdrawal and they certainly don't believe that it's some sort of goodwill gesture by the Russian government. They believe plain and simple, the Russians lost in their quest to try to get into Kyiv and now, some of them seemed to be pushing back because they simply can't get into the Ukrainian capital and taken a lot of losses, Don.

LEMON: Frederik, I want your response to this, but let me up this disturbing new video, and I have to warn our viewers, it is extremely graphic. And this video shows the full extent of the devastation of the town of Irpin. Bodies left in cars and on the street. The footages from the Ukrainian NGO.

You just spoke to the mayor of that town. What did he tell you about this particular attack?

PLEITGEN: Well, he said that it's utter destruction, and this, you know, this is a series of attack, if you will. The Russians had large part of that town for a long time. The Ukrainians pushed them back. The Russians as they were pushed out of that town have now continuously started shelling the place.

You can see the damage that was done to a lot of buildings there, a lot of streets that were completely destroyed. Dead bodies still laying around. It's extremely graphic video that we're seeing here but, unfortunately, that is the reality on the ground there in Irpin. And you're right, I did just speak to the mayor. And he said what they are trying to do is they have taken to entire town back.

The Russians however are still shelling it but they were trying to evacuate the people that are still inside. And they're doing so while they're taking fire from Russian positions. It's extremely difficult. They are trying to take some of these dead bodies out as well. A difficult situation but he also says he believes they are going to be able to push the Russians back even further, Don.

LEMON: Fred, Chernihiv was also sit extremely hard in the last 24 hours. Why is that area so significant?

PLEITGEN: It's absolutely significant because Chernihiv is on the main route that the Russian forces take when they come from Belarus to come down here to Kyiv. So, it's actually right now would be on one of their supply routes, if they were try to reinforce here to Kyiv, or even now as they're resupplying their forces there.

They've tried to take Chernihiv and has been trying to for a very long time. It's a smaller city, I'd say about 200,000 to 300,000 people lived in it before all of this begun. They've have absolutely encircled it and are shelling it almost to the scale of what's going on in Mariupol.

You know, John Berman, he spoke earlier today to the mayor of Chernihiv, and the mayor described just the absolute devastation there. You know, there's no food, there's no water. It's a very difficult to get medical supplies, and just that constant shelling that keeps going on.

It's a very difficult situation, but still, you know, that town is not far from the Belarusian border. It's one of those places that the Russians thought they were going to be able to take fairly quickly. But they're not just able to do it because there's such fierce resistance from the population there, Don.

LEMON: All right. Frederik Pleitgen, thank you very much.

[15:10:01]

We appreciate that. Stay safe. Alisyn, this is not what the Russian army thought, so they are having

to re-strategize in the moment and to try to save face is basically what's happening on the ground here.

I don't know if there's a particular strategy. It's a sort of re- strategizing to try to figure, you know, now what? What happens next?

CAMEROTA: Yeah, it sure looks like that. Don, thank you. We'll check back with you.

Let's discuss all of this with former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. He's also the vice president for Russian and Europe at the U.S. Institute of Peace.

Ambassador Taylor, great to see you.

So, just yesterday, there was this little glimmer of hope because not just because of the Russian misinformation saying that they were -- there was a shift in strategy. It was because of these talks between Ukrainians and the Russians and the Ukrainian side said they felt there was some progress being made, but today that feels far away. Was that just wishful thinking?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I don't think it was wishful thinking. I think it was disappointment that the positive message coming from the Russian side of those negotiations in Istanbul was not reflected in the negative message coming out of Moscow. So, the negotiators in Turkey were -- sounds like serious.

They were serving, the Ukrainian side was, the Ukrainian side apparently put down some specific suggestions, possibilities, things to consider, ideas that they've been getting around, the Ukrainians have been getting around, to deal with their security. I mean, these proposals, Alisyn, are to ensure that the Ukrainians, when this comes out are secure.

As we've talked about before, they thought this was going to be NATO providing their security. Well, they've now realized it's not it. So, they're looking for other ways to provide their security and they some of these ideas down on paper and apparently have the conversation with the Russians which seem to go over pretty well, at least to Istanbul, but maybe not so well in Moscow.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. And, in fact, we heard this week from President Zelenskyy of Ukraine that he signaled that he is open to neutral status for Ukraine, so accepting that they won't be part of NATO. It seems as though there's been a little movement on his part of what he's willing to cede now. No idea if that would actually passed a referendum.

But then we talked yesterday to the former prime minister of Ukraine, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who doesn't like that idea about neutrality. Let me just play for you what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ARSENIY YATSENYUK, FORMER UKRAINIAN PRIME MINISTER: We already paid the price for knew neutrality. I don't believe in any kind of neutrality in this current world. It's black or white, whether we are under the shelter of NATO or Russia will try always to take over Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Ambassador, where does that leave Ukraine?

TAYLOR: So, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, of course, is right. He's a very smart man, was a good prime minister, even though he had to do some very unpopular things. But he's a very careful thinker.

And he's right. NATO was going be the answer. It was going to provide the security to Ukraine.

What the Ukrainians apparently are thinking about now, yes, it has a neutrality aspect to it like Austria, Austria is a member of the European Union, not a member of NATO, so it's neutral in some sense. But what the Ukrainians apparently have in mind is more than that. It's a guarantee or a series of guarantees from other nations, including the United States and France and the U.K. and Poland, guarantees from these other countries of Ukrainian security. That is if Ukraine is invaded, these other countries, these guarantors would come to their assistance, would come to their assistance militarily and would be obligated in some legal sense.

Arseniy Yatsenyuk is right, previous proposals and previous signatures, previous agreements have not had both force of law, have not been actual treaties, have not been legally binding. And so, the Ukrainians seem to have recognized that and seemed to have -- ready to take those steps if they could get legally binding security guarantees and that would be good for Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: If President Putin is not getting real information from his advisers, if in fact he's getting misinformation from them because everyone is too scared to tell him the truth about how poorly it's going for Russian soldiers, will that prolong this war?

TAYLOR: It will prolong the war, Alisyn. I think you're right. The longer President Putin is shielded from the results of his blunder, of his disastrous decision to invade, and the results have been tens of thousands of Russian soldiers killed and the results have been his economy in tatters, his economy spiraling down, those results will not be kept from him.

[15:15:23]

He will finally figure it out. When he does, that will lead, we hope, to the negotiations that we were just talking about, Alisyn. That there maybe negotiations where Ukrainian security can be assured, and President Putin can say, well, I kept them out of NATO.

There's a deal to be struck there. It's on the terms of the Ukrainians and it's up to the Ukrainians, not anybody else, to set those. And when President Putin figured out he's not winning on the battlefield, he may sit there.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador William Taylor, we always appreciate the information. Thank you.

We have some new CNN reporting that a federal investigation into Hunter Biden and his business activities is ramping up. Those details just ahead.

And Chris Rock is performing for the first time since the Oscar slap in just a few hours. The Oscars hosts are also weighing in. We have all of the latest on this, ahead.

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[15:20:47]

CAMEROTA: A Justice Department investigation into Hunter Biden is heating up. Multiple sources tell CNN that a flurry of witnesses are providing testimony to federal investigators as they probe whether the president's son broke foreign lobbying or money laundering laws while his father was vice president.

Joining us is CNN crime and justice reporter, Katelyn Polantz. She's been covering this story.

So, Katelyn, tell us what you're learning.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Alisyn. So, this is an active investigation. It's been an investigation for a few years now into Hunter Biden and his associates. But at this time, we are learning from multiple sources that there are still witnesses that are getting inquiries from federal investigators in Delaware. There were people going into the grand jury last year. There were subpoenas going from the grand jury and there are interviews still scheduled, as federal investigators continue to inquire into lots of different things related to Hunter Biden.

So, breaking that down, there's a tax inquiry. Hunter Biden publicly acknowledged this. That inquiry will be something like did he pay his taxes.

And then on top of that, our reporting is there's also an inquiry into the business around Burisma. So, that is an energy company out of Ukraine where Hunter Biden was on the board at time his father was the vice president and the inquiry that we understand is ongoing asked about whether Burisma was handling itself appropriately whenever people working on its behalf were making contact with State Department officials and the U.S. government. So, that's a foreign lobbying inquiry, and also whether payments coming from Burisma to entities around Hunter Biden were appropriately handled.

So, this inquiry is alive, ongoing, and it raises -- continues to raise ethical questions about the president's son.

CAMEROTA: Indeed it does. Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much for your reporting. Let's bring in CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger and CNN legal

analyst Jennifer Rodgers.

Jennifer, let's start with the legal headache here for Hunter Biden and for the president. Why is it heating up now? Because this has been going on for years, this investigation.

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, I mean, you have to think they are following the evidence. The good news is even though it was started under the Trump administration under questionable circumstances that looks very much like a political investigation, it's now being handled completely professionally, with interference from the White House.

So, DOJ, Merrick Garland and the Delaware district attorney, a Delaware U.S. attorney who President Biden left in place, even though he was appointed by Trump, are just following the evidence. It's probably heating up because they're getting to that point in their investigation where they're getting to the end of their list of witnesses, they've gathered all the documents they need and it's time to kind of wrap up the investigation and make a decision as to whether to charge.

CAMEROTA: Gloria, to the politics of this, what a political headache this is for President Biden. What happens if his son is charged?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, I think it's a personal heartbreak for him first of all, and secondly, it's obviously a political problem. It's something the White House does not want to touch. When the White House press secretary -- when it's been raised with her in the past, she kind of brushes it aside, and, you know, it's being investigated. Let it be done.

And, obviously, Republicans will make hay of it. But here's really nothing this White House is going to do about it. As you pointed out, there are attorneys working on it and if he's charged, so be it. They're not going to stand in the way of that.

CAMEROTA: The White House communications director Kate Bedingfield just talked about something the former President Trump did. So, let me start at the beginning.

President Trump, as you know, often solicited Vladimir Putin's -- well, I don't know about often -- has in the past solicited Vladimir Putin's help with things, has publicly asked Vladimir Putin for help, even in this moment of this international crisis, of this war on Ukraine. So, let me play for everyone what President Trump said yesterday to -- involving Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: Why did the mayor of Moscow's wife give the Bidens, both of them, three and a half million dollars? That's a lot of money.

[15:25:03] She gave them $3.5 million. So, now, I would think Putin would know the answer to that. I think he should release it. I think we should know that answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: President Trump has offered no evidence of his (INAUDIBLE) --

BORGER: No.

CAMEROTA: -- of the money exchange. But here's what Kate Bedingfield, the White House communications director, just said. What kind of American, let alone an ex-president, thinks that this is the right time to enter into a scheme with Vladimir Putin and bragged about his connections to Vladimir Putin. There's only one and it's Donald Trump.

Gloria, your thoughts?

BORGER: Well, it's sort of like, hey, I know you're at war with us. And you don't like Joe Biden very much. So, let me tell you about a way you can really hurt Joe Biden. That's what I'm going to do.

The enemy of enemy is my friend. And as you pointed out before, Putin has been his friend in the past. You know, in 2016, he said, Russia, if you know where those emails are, Hillary Clinton's emails, why don't you tell us? It's very reminiscent of that.

And so, you know, this is a -- this is a former president of the United States, in the middle of a war, saying, I don't care about NATO, I don't care about the United States. What I really care about is my enemy. And my enemy is not Russia, it's not Vladimir Putin. My true enemy is Joe Biden and, by the way, Vlad, here is how you can hurt him.

I mean, it's just disgraceful.

CAMEROTA: Jen, legally speaking, if Hunter Biden, if the Justice Department finds something and if he's charged, what does it mean if the president's son is charged with a crime? Is there any road map here?

RODGERS: There's no road map. We've never had this before. I mean, President Biden stayed out of it and he's promised to continue stay out of it.

So, you know, Hunter Biden is an adult. I assumed he will be charged. He'll go through his phases. He'll either plead guilty or go to trial, all without influence from the White House.

And, you know, that's where we are. That's what should happen. That's really the takeaway from here.

There's no interference. We're back to the rule of law. It's a good thing in that sense, and, you know, if he's charged, we'll see how it goes. CAMEROTA: We'll continue to follow it, obviously. Jennifer Rodgers, Gloria Borger, thank you both.

So, moments ago, Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby said Russia's attacks on Mariupol are, quote, devastating and that the city is being decimated. We have reaction from a Ukrainian member of parliament to what's happening, next.

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