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UK Intel Chief: Low Morale Among Russian Soldiers, Refusing Orders; Biden: Putin "Seems to be Self-Isolated," May Not Be Getting Real Info; Pentagon: 1/5 Russian Forces Near Kyiv Have Moved, Some in Belarus. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 31, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:08]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I see your eyes closed, I know you're not deep in thought. We got you.

COL. LIAM COLLINS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Sorry about that. Yeah, I mean, I think -- we don't know where they're going to go but we'll try to make some gains and they will, no doubt, as war has progressed. It ebbs and flows but they haven't been able to make gains today going back and refitting and regrouping. They're not -- they're at the weakest point they've been at. So, I don't see significant gains being made no matter where they move to.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Oren, it was so interesting to hear Kirby talk about that ominous 40-mile convoy we focused on because we had seen it on the satellite photos and him saying that it's their assessment it has basically fallen apart. It's also their assessment that that it was evident there was a lack of planning on the Russians' part. But, of course, now it sounds like they're regrouping and no one knows what they're planning to do next.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, that was a resupply convoy he was being asked about. It was in the end unable to resupply the troops that it was supposed to resupply. The inevitable consequence of that, especially in the face of Ukrainian resistance, in the face of quick, nimble, almost hit-and-run sort of attacks from the Ukrainians using the weapons that have continued to flow in was this resupply convoy fell apart.

And the Russian troops that were supposed to be around there, at least some of them, a bit less than 20 percent perhaps, was the number given from Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby, started moving back.

He didn't want to use the word withdrawal or retreat. He used the word reposition because it remains the assessment these troops will be pulled back into Belarus, refitted, and then perhaps the U.S. assessment is they will then be sent into Donbas, the Donbas region which is the region which Moscow has said it will be prioritizing and that's what the U.S. expects to see.

But again, it's only 48 hours or so since Russia has said that. It's too quick for them to have moved back into Belarus, refitted, repositioned and then already gotten into Donbas some 500 miles away that will take time, but that is part of what the U.S. assesses Russia will try to do as the days and weeks go by here.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Oren Liebermann, Colonel Collins, thank you both.

BLACKWELL: Vladimir Putin is facing resistance. The head of British intelligence said Putin has massively misjudged the situation in Ukraine by miscalculating the strength of the Ukrainian resistance. You're looking at a Russian tank on fire here. The UK intelligence director added that Putin is also dealing with opposition among his military who have low morale, refused to carry out orders, and are sabotaging their own equipment.

And in the last hour, President Biden said Putin may have forced out some of his top aides. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He seems to be -- I'm not saying this with certainty -- he seems to be self-isolating and there's some indication he has fired or put under house arrest some of his advisers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: A short time ago, the Ukrainian Nuclear Authority said all but a small number of Russian forces have withdrawn from the Chernobyl site of that 1986 nuclear disaster the Russian troops took control of that early on in their invasion in February.

CAMEROTA: And the U.S. also says it has seen Russians pulling back from an airport they seized northwest of Kyiv. The NATO secretary- general warns the Russians are not withdrawing but repositioning to the contested Donbas region. Ukraine believes Russians are also regrouping in Belarus, that's to the north.

President Biden says he's skeptical about any Russian pullback.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Thus far, there is no clear evidence he's pulling all of these forces out. There is also evidence he is beefing up his troops down in the Donbas area. Depending on your view of Putin, I'm a little skeptical. It's an open question whether he's actually pulling back and going to say I'm just going to focus on the Donbas and I'm not worried about the rest of the country. I'm a skeptical, but I don't have proof.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, meanwhile, the Russian attacks continue. Images from Kyiv and Chernihiv show how extreme the suffering is. Russia had promised to drastically reduce hostilities in both cities, but that's not happening. The mayor of Chernihiv says attacks are actually increasing.

Let's go to Don now. He is -- we'll hold on that. Military officials in Ukraine say Russian forces may be regrouping, as we said, in Belarus. That's the area to the north. That's where they might replenish their manpower and weapons.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in the southern port city of Odessa.

[15:05:03]

Ed, what are you seeing there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, here just a few moments ago, air raid sirens just went off for about eight minutes. The sound was mixed with church bells ringing here at night. So a very surreal sound and scene as the city remains under curfew, the streets totally empty and quiet.

Obviously many people here watching with a great deal of concern what is happening in the northern part of Ukraine and trying to make sense of exactly what Russian forces are up to and what their plan will be. As we've been reporting, it appears Russian forces moving back toward Belarus in large part trying to regroup, and that raises the question where they will move to next, do they have plans to move in through eastern Ukraine and continue to move down the coastline of the Sea of Azov and the black sea, perhaps down toward Odessa to create that land bridge connecting with Crimea.

That is the concern and that is the expectation many people we've talk to believe might happen next. The timing of all of that is still very much up in the air but there's a great level of distrust of what the Russians are saying publicly trying to figure out what they're going to physically do on ground next.

CAMEROTA: Ed, what about that southern city of Mariupol, because we had heard maybe they were going to be setting up an evacuation route but it was stymied?

LAVANDERA: Right. So this continues to be a dramatic and horrific situation. There were reports and plans today to try to get 45 buses close there to Mariupol to be able to evacuate some 1,500 to 2,500 people, according to the deputy mayor who describes the residents living there in Mariupol as essentially living like mice underground in shelters and bunkers, so there's this desperate need to get these people evacuated.

However, there's still more than 100,000 people that need to be evacuated. But throughout the last few hours we've heard reports that the buses that were trying to reach Mariupol had been stopped by Russian forces at gunpoint, so it's unclear exactly what kind of progress they're making. It might not even be until midnight local time before we get an idea if they've been able to successfully reach a handful of people there in the city that need to be evacuated. So, that continues to be a very dangerous and fluid situation here this evening.

CAMEROTA: Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.

Let's bring in Don Lemon. He is in Lviv. That's in Western Ukraine.

Don, tell us what you're seeing.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, "DON LEMON TONIGHT": We're seeing similar to what Ed just talked about, at least through the eyes of folks we have interviewed here in Mariupol, Alisyn and Victor. We interviewed a family who escaped just a short time ago, a few days ago, and got here to Lviv and talked about the checkpoints they experienced along the way and their entire experience. We'll have that for you a little bit later.

In the meantime, though, the death toll has risen once again from a Russian missile hitting a government building Tuesday in Mykolaiv, which is in southern Ukraine.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is there.

Ben, hello to you. The first report feared that three were killed, and now we know that number is much higher. Talk to us about that. What's going on?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, the initial death toll was quite low, but what's clear many people -- and we were up close to that ruined building yesterday -- it's clear that many more people were trapped inside. And what we've seen steadily that death toll has been rising.

It's currently 20 but what is important to stress is that attack took place Tuesday morning at 8:45 local time, more than 48 hours later, the rescue workers are still digging bodies out of the ruins.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Somewhere in this jumble of concrete, bricks and twisted metal are more bodies trapped in the ruins of the office of Mykolaiv's regional governor. Tuesday morning, a Russian missile struck the building killing more than a dozen people, wounding many more.

MAYOR OLEKSANDR SYENKEVYCH, MYKOLAIV, UKRAINE: They bombarded our city and civilians are dying here.

WEDEMAN: Mykolaiv Mayor Oleksandr Syenkevych doesn't normally come to city hall like this, but he saw war coming long ago and prepared himself.

SYENKEVYCH: Starting from 2014, I said the war will be like this. So everything you see on me is bulletproof vest, boots, anything. I bought it a couple years ago. So, I started to learn how to shoot. I was in a special school for that.

WEDEMAN: On the outskirts of his city, recently downed Russian attack helicopters suggest the Ukrainian military also saw this war coming. They've managed to stop Russian forces in their tracks, regaining territory lost at the start of the war.

Five-year-old Misha is recovering from shrapnel wounds to his head in the basement turned bomb shelter at Mykolaiv's regional hospital. His grandfather Vladimir shows me phone video of the bullet riddled car his father was driving with his family to escape the Russian advance. Russian soldiers, Vladimir calls them bastards, opened fire on the car, killing Misha's grandmother and mother. As we speak, the air raid siren goes off. Taking shelter is an oft practiced drill. Stay calm and carry on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: And just as Ed is hearing in Odessa, those air raid sirens, we also heard them a few minutes ago. They've been going off almost every hour all day long. And even though the Russian forces have been significantly pushed back from the outskirts of this city, there is a real fear that something could happen, they could come back just as easily as they were pushed away.

So what we saw today, Don, is that the city authorities are cutting down massive trees to use those trees to help reinforce trenches on the outskirts of the city and reinforce barricades on all of the roads coming into it -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Ben Wedeman, thanks.

And, Alisyn and Victor, you saw the city official there, the mayor. You have mayors of towns. You have the Ukrainian parliament and just average citizens suiting up, arming themselves not just counting on the West and NATO but counting on themselves to save their country.

CAMEROTA: And, in fact, we're going to talk to one of those right now, Don. Thank you very much.

A senior defense official said some Russian forces are drawing back from areas north and northwest of Kyiv, and troops have likely abandoned the airport outside of the capital. But the region is still very much under threat from increased air strikes as Russian troops regroup.

So joining us now is Miro Popovich. He's a dual American Ukrainian citizen and a U.S. military veteran now defending his homeland in Kyiv.

Miro, it's always great to talk to you. Tell us what you're seeing around you today in Kyiv.

MIRO POPOVICH, U.S. CITIZEN FIGHTING IN UKRAINE: Hi. Well, lately, it's been really quiet in Kyiv. Air sirens go off every now and then but it's been much more stable and more quiet here because it seems like they are retreating, they're pushing back, I don't know why. It's been better. The situation in Kyiv is better.

CAMEROTA: And do you feel as though that is progress, or do you think the Russians are regrouping and planning something else in Kyiv?

POPOVICH: Well, you know what, I think progress will be when we are completely kicking them out of our country. Right now, I don't know. We are getting ready for them to regroup. That's our thought. That's the only thing we think of. We don't think they're just -- decide to go back. We are getting ready

for them to regroup and wish again I guess. I mean, you have to be ready with Russia. I know they're saying that they are taking their forces back from the capital, but, you know, you have to be ready.

So, we are ready. We're getting ready and we'll see what happen.

CAMEROTA: Miro, why do you think Russian forces weren't able to make more gains in Kyiv?

POPOVICH: Well, first of all, I don't think their military is as good as they want people to seem. That's first.

Second, I think their intelligence and their intel was wrong. They did not expect such a high resistance. And they did not expect our military to be that good. I mean, honestly, I personally, I am a little bit surprised as well because I thought that it would be much worse here around the capital.

But, you know, it is the capital and it's the main city in Ukraine. It's heavily guarded. Our air defense system is a little bit better than in other cities. So, yeah, I mean, that's it.

I don't -- I think their planning was wrong. And I don't see how they can correct that in the future because we are ready for any outcome or any scenario now.

[15:15:09]

We are like 35 days ago when the war started, we weren't as ready but we still kick them and pushed them back. Now I see that our national guard, our military, our national police that I work with, we are ready for anything and we are on the high alert, on standby, but we are ready.

CAMEROTA: Miro, your story is so fascinating to us because, you know, a month ago, you were a film student in -- at New York film school. And now you are in Ukraine and fighting for your country and every time we've talked to you, you just show the same resolve and courage. We really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and we will check in with you soon.

POPOVICH: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Take care of yourself.

POPOVICH: Take care. Thank you. Bye-bye.

BLACKWELL: Peace talks are expected to resume tomorrow. How realistic is it that there will be some diplomatic solution? We'll talk about that next.

And the Justice Department's probe into January 6th is reportedly expanding to include the pro-Trump rallies that took place before the riot.

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[15:20:41]

BLACKWELL: Peace talks are scheduled to resume tomorrow between Ukrainian President Zelenskyy's chief of staff and his Russian counterparts. Ukrainians say they hold a small portion of optimism that they can get to a meaningful result. But the last two times these two sides sat down the Russians didn't hold up their agreement to scale back operations in key areas of Ukraine.

Olexander Scherba is the former ambassador at-large for the ministry of foreign defense.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you for being with us. Do you share any of that small portion of optimism that there can be some meaningful result in these talks tomorrow?

OLEXANDER SCHERBA, FORMER AMBASSADOR-AT-LARGE, UKRAINIAN MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Well, I was extremely skeptical before the last round of negotiations and all of a sudden (ph), it gave some hope. So, maybe, it's not worse to be extremely skeptical every time.

My skepticism was about the negotiators Russia sends to these talks. They are mostly former politicians with quite little influence or proximity to Putin. But all of a sudden, the last time, it's either a game or it's real or something tangible, I hear both versions right now are in play.

Let's hope. Let's hope. We in Ukraine will live one day at a time, and it's not the kind of situation where you give up on hope.

BLACKWELL: OK. So, hope springs eternal, I hear that.

Let me ask you. Your reaction to what we're hearing from the Polish prime minister who says that in his estimation quite soon, his words, Ukrainian forces, after this regroup and this reorganization will surround Ukrainian forces in a third of the country. We're talking out east, the Donbas region specifically, we know that land bridge through Mariupol and down through the Crimea which was annexed eight years ago, and then from that position of strength return to talks.

If Russia were able to hold a third of the country, how would that change the peace talks with Ukrainian officials?

SCHERBA: Well, that would be rather big assumption considering how miserably the Russian army has been performing so far. They got their butts kicked all over the country. So, assuming that all of a sudden, this Russian army with zero motivation and with quite frankly sometimes rather outdated machinery becomes something different, then it would be difficult.

But you should consider and understand, the Ukrainian army is right now stronger than ever and more motivated than ever. We know what we fight for and what we die for. Russians don't.

BLACKWELL: Mr. Ambassador, at the end of any of these talks, there has to be the basic premise Russia and, therefore, Vladimir Putin, is a good faith actor, that any document he signs, even if he gets a slice of the country, that he won't come back for the rest of the pie. Considering he's made that commitment before and you see where we are today, is that possible that Ukraine could ever take at face value a commitment from Vladimir Putin?

SCHERBA: Never. Of course never. But we -- if -- if he's ready to sign a paper that would give us some time of peace, we shouldn't be too arrogant not to sign it or too distrustful. We -- of course we don't trust Russia ever since they broke their promise to respect our borders indefinitely that they signed in 1994 --

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

SCHERBA: -- and then they annexed Crimea.

Putin is evil. Putin is not trustworthy. Putin must go, sooner or later, later or sooner. But unfortunately, right now, he's the one making the decisions and he is under pressure from the world and from the Ukrainian army.

[15:25:09]

And that's a big question.

BLACKWELL: All right. Ambassador Oleksander Scherba, thank you.

CAMEROTA: So back here, the first member of Donald Trump's family meeting with the January 6th Committee today. We have the details just ahead.

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