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DOJ Announces Gun Trafficking Charges; Strong Job Numbers; Russian Fuel Depot on Fire. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 01, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:25]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We begin with a new twist in the war in Ukraine. Russia is accusing Ukraine of launching a missile and striking a fuel depot inside Russia. New video shows a fire at the fuel depot in Belgorod. That's just over the border into Russia. The Russian Defense Ministry says two Ukrainian helicopters entered the territory flying at a low altitude and attacked.

CNN cannot confirm this claim. And the Ukrainian defense minister would neither confirm nor deny this report. A spokesman for the Kremlin says this strike could negatively impact the peace talks between Russia and Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: And Russia's devastating attacks continue in Ukraine. The northern town of Chernihiv has seen heavy shelling in the last 48 hours.

The latest attack hit hospital. It destroyed a cancer ward. Also today, a small respite for the decimated city of Mariupol. Officials say 2,000 people were able to leave the city on buses. But officials estimate more than 100,000 people are still there, trapped.

CNN's Don Lemon is in Lviv. Of course, that's in Western Ukraine.

Don, so we know a Red Cross evacuation team did not make it to Mariupol to help evacuate more people. What happened there?

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hi, Victor. Hi, Alisyn.

So this is a team affiliated with the Red Cross, three vehicles nine personnel. And they were unable to cross into Mariupol -- quote -- "after arrangements and conditions made it impossible to proceed."

Now, we don't know if that means that there were Russian troops stopping their passage or something as simple as bad weather. But the team is planning on trying to make the trip to the besieged city again, and they're going to try on Saturday. In the meantime, we have some other news.

I want to turn out to CNN's Phil Black. He is also here in Lviv with me.

So, we're going to talk more about this fuel depot in Belgorod. If Ukrainian -- if Ukraine did attack this, this would be a major shift in Ukrainian strategy, the first attack inside Russia. And, listen, I had a general on this. And I want to ask this question because I don't want to sound silly.

Could this actually end up back in Russia, on Russia's territory? And, indeed, it possibly could have. So talk to us. Give us a context on this possible attack. And, as Alisyn mentioned earlier, what will this mean for these proposed thoughts?

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: These are good questions, Don.

I mean, the facts as we know them, there were clearly helicopters over Belgorod this morning. They clearly fired missiles at this particular site, creating this huge, huge explosion. The interesting thing is the Russian say very specifically, these were Ukrainian attack helicopters who flew in low and fast and who did the damage.

The Ukrainian response so far has been deliberately ambiguous, neither confirm, nor deny. And there's no obvious reason on the surface why that should be the case. The Russians are saying that this could really impact the peace talks, this could impact the atmosphere that surrounds the work they are trying to do, somehow make it a less constructive atmosphere, is what they're implying.

But there are some key questions here. If the Ukrainians did this, why are they being so vague about it? Why aren't they claiming responsibility for it? If they didn't do it, then the implication is...

LEMON: It's a false flag.

BLACK: ... it's the Russians that did it. And...

LEMON: But you say that...

BLACK: Well, if that's the case, if that is something that they did -- and we don't know. We have to be careful in how we talk about it.

But what's the motivation right behind it? That's the key point.

LEMON: Right.

BLACK: And perhaps we need to see what the next steps are from both sides to get a sense of precisely, perhaps, who did this and why.

LEMON: Yes, it's early on. And it's yet to be determined what happened. But, usually, if there is a false flag, usually, does it involve... BLACK: Well, a false flag is designed to create circumstances that justify action that follows.

LEMON: Right.

BLACK: And, quite often, you want that false flag to be as emotive as possible.

LEMON: Yes.

BLACK: And, so, sometimes, it would involve people being killed and civilians and so forth.

In this case, these are fuel tanks. We're told that no one was hurt. And it's just -- and the Russians are stressing, this is a civilian facility, so, if the Ukrainians did it, they have done no damage to Russia's military.

LEMON: And you're right .We have to be careful about it because we don't know at this point.

Phil Black, thank you very much. We appreciate that.

I want to turn now to CNN's chief international correspondent. And that's Christiane Amanpour. She is in Kyiv.

And so, Christiane, we just heard from Phil Black on the strike in Russia. And you just spoke to the Ukrainian foreign minister. What did he say about this?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, as Phil said, officially, they will neither confirm nor deny.

However, when I asked the foreign minister about the video, this is what he told me:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I saw the video, but the quality is insufficient for me to identify whether it was Ukrainian helicopters or not.

[14:05:03]

I'm Ukrainian. I have trust in the people of Ukraine and in our armed forces, and, of course, as foreign minister now, diplomacy.

This is a war. They attacked us to destroy us. They reject our right to exist as a nation. So, it means that we will be fighting back by all means available to us within existing law, international laws of warfare, of course, because we're a civilized nation, unlike them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, Don, a huge amount packed into that. First of all, it's operational security. And they were bound not to tell us one way or the other. Secondly, he said, this is war. And you remember, because you covered it just last week, the Russians actually sent missiles into that fuel depot quite close to where you are Lviv. This is war, tit for tat.

LEMON: Right.

AMANPOUR: And then the last thing he said was, at least we abide by the internationally recognized norms and rules and laws of war, which is, in fact, what, if they did, happened, because they did not target civilians. They targeted a strategic location, unlike, as he said, what Russia is doing, which is targeting civilians in Mariupol and all the other places we have been and visited and reported.

LEMON: Christiane, President Zelenskyy making some news, saying that he has fired two generals, calling them anti-heroes and saying that he does not have time to deal with all the traitors.

Are you learning anything more about these dismissals?

AMANPOUR: Not a whole lot more, because he said, I have got no time, as you said, to talk about this.

This is just happening. When I asked the foreign minister about it, he wouldn't divulge all the details, but he said, you know what? Because I asked, is there a fifth column? Are you concerned that people in your own ranks may be working for the Russians? He said, look, I can't confirm, but what I can tell you is this. Sometimes, it's not just a question of that issue. It's a question of effectiveness.

He said, if they're not effective in their job, they all also need to be removed, said, I even have that in the Foreign Service. Some of my ambassadors are really excellent in this job at this time. Some of them are less effective. So I have to take my own decisions.

So that's the way he answered it. And, by the way, on the talk, I was told by the foreign minister that they did take place, even though the Kremlin said, ooh, this strike might affect them. They did take place. And it was remote, though, and we haven't yet got a readout of whether anything happened.

But, again, just remember the idea that the Kremlin will say this might negatively affect the talks kind of beggars belief, because you have five weeks of Russia hammering all these towns and people and civilian structures.

LEMON: Right.

AMANPOUR: And yet the talks have continued.

LEMON: Right.

Christiane Amanpour joining us from Kyiv.

Thank you very much for that, Christiane. Alisyn and Victor, the talks happened. As she said, we don't have a readout on it. Did it change the tone and tenor of those talks? We will know once we figure out what happened, once we get a readout on it -- back to you.

CAMEROTA: Don, thank you very much. We will check back with you.

Joining us now to discuss everything that we just heard in our reporting, we have retired Army Major Mike Lyons.

Major, thanks so much.

So, is this something that Ukraine would do, fly into Russian territory, fly over Russian territory and launch missiles on this fuel depot and then not claim responsibility for it?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: I think so.

I think they're being ambiguous right now for a reason. It's likely they got help from the United States or somebody from the intelligence community in order to know where their air defense platforms were. But they use the right weapon systems.

Helicopters fly low, fly quick, get in there. The issue is, they were Soviet-made helicopters, which is why you can't really tell whether or not it was Russia or Ukraine.

But now, by being ambiguous about the response, it tells me a couple things. One is that perhaps one of Zelenskyy commanders extended out and did something he probably shouldn't do. The commander's intent was to do what they could, and perhaps that he felt it was important to get out there and make this kind of attack, but it did cross the border.

Now, I think the Russian saying that this is going to change the peace process is laughable, given what they have been doing for the past five weeks. So good on them.

It reminds me of a Doolittle Raid thing that we did during World War II. And if that is the case, then they're going to continue to counterattack and continue to punch Russia in the nose. I think it's good.

BLACKWELL: So, you believe that this is, although they're not confirming or denying responsibility, a Ukrainian strike, not a false flag from the Russians?

LYONS: Yes, if I had to say one or the other. Again, it could very well be that false flag. But it appears that it shows initiative. It shows the confidence that the Ukraine has in their military.

And it's a very dangerous mission. Russia claims that one of the helicopters was shot down, the other one was hit. So, this is the kind of thing that they're going to go on the offensive. They're doing counterattacks up in Kyiv right now. They're really punching them in the nose in areas where Russia should be dominating, and they're not. That airfield and that whole airspace should be closed down. Russia, the fact that they allowed somebody to cross their border in their airspace is a tremendous violation from their security. And I'm sure they're thinking twice about how that went down.

[14:10:05]

CAMEROTA: Major, do you have any thoughts on President Zelenskyy dismissing, firing these two top generals, basically saying that they were traitors and that they had sort of dual loyalty?

His word was, they have not decided where their homeland. Is that -- would that be -- I mean, how big of a problem do you think that is in the Ukrainian army?

LYONS: Well, the fact that he's firmly in charge, and it shows that he's got unity of command, and I think that's a good thing.

It shows he's got general officers that are not doing what they're supposed to be doing. And that's leading and inspiring the troops below them. So I think it's fine. It happens that during the fog of war. It happens.

You have peacetime general officers that are really good at administrative and paperwork and maintenance and things like that, but when they're in a situation right now, they need people that are well- trained, well-inspired, and can get the job done.

So, if -- the fact that he's doing that shows me he's got his hand clearly on the intent of what he wants accomplished and he wants -- what he wants the military to accomplish.

BLACKWELL: Major, I want you to listen to this reporting from a German reporter, Christopher Reuter. He works for "Der Spiegel."

And he visited a village just northwest of Kharkiv. This was a day- and-a-half, maybe two days after the Russian forces left. And this is what he learned about the exchanges between those Russian troops and the Ukrainians locally in that small town. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPH REUTER, "DER SPIEGEL": Some people, like the head of security of the big chocolate factory, he talked with the Russians, because they accepted him as kind of official spokesperson or somebody who's important.

And the Russians asked him in mid-March, late March, where are we? Have we taken Kyiv? Have we taken Kharkiv? Is Zelenskyy dead? They had no clue what was happening in the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The Russian troops asking the locals what is happening in this war, I mean, it seems to reconcile with the low morale, the lack of supplies, and clearly the lack of information. What's your take? LYONS: No, the same.

There's no unity of command from Russia, violating a significant principle of war that we have in the United States, no communication in any kind of interior lines to move logistics, no thought about why it's important that the message get down to the lower level that's actually doing the fighting.

And, again, the Ukraine military, guerrilla forces, they are fighting superbly using what's come in from the West, the Stingers, the Javelins, the drones and everything. The fact that Russia has had to retreat in Kyiv, going north towards Chernobyl, and they're just really repositioning to try to do something else.

But I think we will continue to give them intelligence and give them the equipment they had to kind of pick off these units one at a time. The fact that they're extracting Russian units from places that they have taken is incredible, because, normally -- go back to Desert Storm. We had to put another 100,000 troops into the country to in order to kick out Saddam Hussein from Kuwait.

That's what normally happens here. To go on the offensive, you have to bring on lots more troops. Ukraine would. And they just don't have them. In fact, Russia has them. And they haven't gotten there yet. So the fact that they're doing that, displacing Russian troops in those positions, is really a small miracle.

CAMEROTA: OK, Major Mike Lyons, thank you very much.

So there's a new jobs report, and it shows the unemployment rate has dropped to a pandemic era low. But Americans, of course, are still feeling high prices at the gas station and at the grocery store, so a look at what this means for the economy.

BLACKWELL: And a producer of the Oscars explain what happened in the moments after Will Smith slaps Chris Rock on stage, why he believed Chris Rock did not want Will Smith physically removed from the show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:05]

CAMEROTA: President Biden celebrated another month of strong job growth today. The U.S. added 431,000 jobs in March and the unemployment rate dipped to a new pandemic low of 3.6 percent.

BLACKWELL: Now, the economy is approaching where it was in February of 2020. But rising inflation and higher prices continue to cause concerns and pains for consumers.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House for us.

So, Kaitlan, what is President Biden saying about this jobs report and what it means for the economy?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course, he's touting this report, 431,000 jobs added, as this hiring spree is continue -- continuing.

And, of course, Victor and Alisyn, that is in thanks to consumer demand being up and COVID cases being down. And that is something certainly the president wanted to celebrate today, talking about the really strong sectors that you saw in this job report, where it said that manufacturing, retail, leisure and hospitality, all of them adding jobs last month.

And that is something, obviously, that was something that was the most affected by the pandemic. And so certainly they are celebrating that, the fact that you were seeing worker demand be at the highest it's been in decades, and about over 90 percent of the jobs that were lost during COVID-19 have been recovered.

But, of course, as you were seeing the president celebrate the good numbers in this report today, he's also got to look at the big picture and talk about the reality of what people are feeling when they are going to the grocery store, when they are filling up their car with gas. And that is something he brought up today, these very high inflation numbers that are kind of hanging over this jobs report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And more and more Americans get jobs, as they do, it's going to help to ease the supply pressures we've seen. And that's good news for fighting inflation, it's good news for our economy, and it means that our economy has gone from being on the mend to being on the move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Of course, these inflation numbers are the number one priority when it comes to problems here at home for President Biden, as they are dealing with this ahead of the midterms that are coming up, something that Democrats have been very worried about.

And, of course, it comes, Alisyn and Victor, as everyone is watching very closely to see what the Federal Reserve is going to do, as interest rates have been raised. And, of course, the question is whether or not they're just going to raise them even higher after seeing this report today.

[14:20:10]

CAMEROTA: Kaitlan, let's talk about White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki. She will be back in the Briefing Room this hour after having COVID last week, but she's not long for this post, we understand. So what do we know about her departure?

COLLINS: Yes, she will be back today. Remember, she tested positive for COVID-19 right before President Biden was scheduled to go on that big trip to Europe last week. She will be back in the Briefing Room today, of course, after testing negative.

But this does come as CNN is now confirming that she is expected to leave her job in May, some time in May. She has not herself confirmed this date. But she is expected to leave there. That is something that we had expected for several months now.

Remember, when she came into this job, she said she only wanted to stay in the role for about a year or so when President Biden took office. And so we are learning that she is expected to leave the White House some time in May and take a job at MSNBC following her job as press secretary.

CAMEROTA: OK, we will be watching.

Kaitlan Collins, thank you.

All right, this just in, the Department of Justice announcing a major indictment of a group of suspected gang members accused of trafficking guns across state lines into Chicago. The charges stem from a mass shooting that took place in Chicago in March of 2021. One person died, seven others were injured when gunfire erupted at this gathering in a Chicago neighborhood.

BLACKWELL: Three soldiers were later charged with buying and transferring some of the guns suspected in that shooting. Now Justice officials are charging nine alleged gang members for their suspected roles in the crime.

CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us now.

So, what more can you tell us about this indictment?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor and Alisyn, the attorney general, Merrick Garland, just had this press conference.

And one of the things he pointed out is, this case illustrates the tremendous problems that they are seeing with guns being trafficked. In this case, these soldiers have bought guns. They were -- these were soldiers of the U.S. army in Fort Collins -- sorry -- Fort Campbell in Kentucky.

And they bought firearms in Tennessee and in Kentucky, and sold them, 90 in all, to members of the Gangster Disciples gang in Chicago, which is where that shooting took place.

Listen to the attorney general talk about the effort that they're making on this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Further investigation by our agents and law enforcement partners uncovered an alleged gun trafficking conspiracy involving over 90 guns and 12 defendants.

Many of these guns have been linked to shootings in the Chicago area in which multiple people have been injured and several killed.

If we are going to put an end to the enduring tragedy of gun violence, we are going to need more resources to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: Victor and Alisyn, the work of agents from the ATF, as well as multiple other agencies that were involved in this case.

I should note that, of the 90 firearms that were being trafficked, according to prosecutors, 30 have been recovered, which means that 60 are still out there. And this is just a drop in the bucket in the amount of guns that law enforcement is seeing around the country.

And you see this in the crime increase you see in cities around the country -- Victor and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Evan Perez, thank you for that reporting.

PEREZ: Sure.

BLACKWELL: Listen, this is the heartbreaking reality of everyday life amid the war in Ukraine, including an infant who is now used to air raid sirens.

His name is Arthur. Arthur's father joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:30]

BLACKWELL: Ukrainian troops have now taken the town of Irpin back from Russian control. But what's left is mostly in ruins. Look at this. This is new CNN video from this suburb of Kyiv.

And it shows the destruction from weeks of Russian shelling and attacks. The area is still dangerous and off-limits to civilians.

One Irpin resident, Alex Dayrabekov, made it out of Irpin just before Russian strikes destroyed his apartment building. He refuses to leave Ukraine. He's recording video updates of life inside a war zone, all while taking care of his infant son.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Wow.

Alex -- man, I did not know that moment was coming.

Thank you for being with us.

You have been raising now your son, who's just shy of 2 months old. And most of his life, he's lived in a war zone. We showed the video earlier that he's now not even fazed by the air raid sirens.

Tell us about how you are doing this in the middle of this war. And how's he doing? ALEX DAYRABEKOV, FATHER OF INFANT STAYING IN UKRAINE: Well, thank you.

[14:30:00]