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Ukraine Reports Heavy Shelling in Donbass Region; Ukrainian Forces Regaining Territory Around Kyiv; Irpin Residents Take Up Arms to Fight off Russians; Refugees Find Ways to Adapt in Hungary; India and China Under Pressure to Condemn Russian Invasion; Ukrainian Soldiers Boast of Stronger Morale than Russians; U.S.: Putin Being "Misinformed" by Advisers about War; Football Fans Await World Cup Draw. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired April 01, 2022 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:00:16]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause live in Lviv, Ukraine. It is 8 a.m. here in Ukraine, where Russian forces are reportedly stepping up their offensive in the east, around the Donbass region.

Much of the area has been under the control of Russian backed separatists making it difficult to receive accurate information but military governors in the region report fierce attacks from Russian aircraft artillery, as well as mortars.

To the north, the hockey region is also a key target for Russians. Authorities there reported major fire after a gas pipeline was hit and shelling in the town of (inaudible) is described as constant.

Meantime, Ukraine says Russian troops are no longer in control of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, north of Kyiv, the size of the world's worst nuclear disaster fell to Russian troops in the early days of this invasion. And Ukraine's president is now warning Russian forces are planning more attacks in Donbass, Kharkiv and the southern port city of Mariupol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translation): They said, three or five days, we thought that this would be enough for them to seize our entire state. And it's already 36 and we are standing and we will continue to fight until the end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: According to the Pentagon, a small number of Russian troops are repositioning around Kyiv but they say it's not a retreat. In fact, U.S. defense officials say Russian sorties have surged over the past 24 hours targeting the capital and three other areas. But Ukrainian forces are fighting back reclaiming the city of Irpin, west of Kyiv, and from there CNN's Fred Pleitgen follow this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): There is no safe way to get into Irpin, the only feasible route is on the back of a police Special Forces pickup truck on dirt paths. But even here the earth is scorched after Russian troops shell the trail.

(On camera): Ukrainian forces are taking us into this area on back roads because they say taking the main roads is simply much too dangerous. They want to show us the damage done when Russian forces tried to enter Kyiv.

(Voice-over): Ukrainian authorities say this is still one of the most dangerous places in this war torn country and we immediately see why. We are driving right towards an area in golf in smoke from artillery shelling. This is where Russian forces tried to push into Ukraine's capital but were stopped and beaten back by the underdog Ukrainians.

The battles here are fierce. Authorities say 50% of the city has been destroyed. To us that number seems like an understatement.

(On camera): We have to keep moving quickly because this place can get shelled anytime.

(Voice-over); Ukraine's national police now patrols Irpin again, but their forces frequently come under fire. The chief tells me.

Just yesterday, our officers who were searching for dead bodies, they were shot at with mortars, he says. They had to lay under the bridge and wait for it to stop. But the grim task of finding and taking out the many dead continues. More than two dozen on this day alone.

Some have been laying in the streets for weeks, it can only now be removed. When Russian forces invaded Ukraine, they quickly advanced on the capital Kyiv all the way to Irpin. Here the Ukrainian stood and fought back.

Vladimir Putin's army controlled large parts of Irpin in the battle laid waste too much of this formerly wealthy suburb. And this was the epicenter where we find burned out Russian trucks and armored vehicles.

(On camera): So this is the area where some of the heaviest fighting took place in Irpin. And as you can see that there was a Russian armored vehicle which was completely annihilated. We do have to be very careful around here because there still could be unexploded munitions laying around.

(Voice-over): We meet Volodymyr Rudenko (ph), a local resident who says he stayed and took up arms when the Russians invaded.

Always there was not a single day when I left town, he says, even during the heaviest fighting. It must have been difficult? I asked. Just so you understand. He says, once there were 348 impacts in one area in one single hour.

And the battle here is not over. Suddenly, Irpin's mayor shows up with a group of Special Forces saying they're looking for Russians possibly still hiding here.

I asked him how it's going. We're working, he says. There's information that there are two Russian soldiers dressed in civilian clothes, but with our group we're going to clean them up.

[01:05:05]

Ukrainian forces say, they will continue the fight and further push Russian forces away from their capital. The Deputy Interior Minister saying they need the U.S.' support to succeed.

(On camera): What do you need from the United States?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything. Military supports, first of all.

PLEITGEN: Weapons to help the Ukrainians expel the invading army they hope and finally bring the suburb out of the reach of Vladimir Putin's cannons. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Irpin, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: About 90% of all buildings in Mariupol have either been damaged or destroyed by the Russian offensive, that's according to the city's mayor. And still, the bombing continues.

This kind of scene was recorded by man running from those explosions what seems to be a new normal in this besieged city. But there is a glimmer of hope. After a request from the leaders of France and Germany, Russia is expected to reopen humanitarian corridor out of Mariupol. Busses are on the way to the city for this evacuation, but no word on when they'll arrive.

For many Ukrainians who leave their homes, they've headed to Poland but, Hungary has also taken in more than 300,000 refugees. And CNN's Matt Rivers reports. Some of them are now learning to adapt to a new life suddenly and unexpectedly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the play area of a temporary refugee shelter in Zahony, Hungary, kids sketch out their recent traumas on paper, burning tanks, drawn in crayon, deadly battles fill out the chalkboard.

Just outside that tent, Anmol Gupta can't erase their pain, but he can get one of those kids a stuffed animal and a smile in the process.

(On camera): When someone says, I'm scared, what do you say to them?

ANMOL GUPTA, INDIAN CITIZEN WHO FLED UKRAINE: Then we tell them, what's going to happen next time, and everything will be OK. So you don't have to worry. And then I started joking with them. So a little bit there.

RIVERS: You're good at that?

GUPTA: Yes, yes, that I know.

RIVERS: A smile, he says, goes a long way. Anmol is a volunteer, having spent the last month just across the Ukraine border, helping weary Ukrainians navigate the first few steps of new lives as refugees in Hungary. The native of Northern India is fluent in Russia.

A skill honed over his years studying for a medical degree in the city of Kharkiv, Ukraine. He was living there when the bombs first started falling. His apartment was destroyed. His motorcycle hit by bullets and shrapnel and his nights spent in bomb shelters. He fled to Hungary but still he wanted to help. As a foreigner, he says he lost very little. All his friends, Ukrainians have lost everything.

(On camera): Is that part of the motivation that you have for being here?

GUPTA: Yes, it can be, it can be because I have been with them for nine years. And it feels like they are also my family.

RIVERS: And he's not the only foreigner once living in Ukraine that still wants to help. Behind kiosk restaurants fancy dining room in Budapest works a man who just two weeks ago, was fleeing from explosions. Steven Ezeudo works in the kitchen, but in early March, he was in Kharkiv. He fled when the Russians attacked.

(On camera): Were you scared?

STEVEN EZEUDO, REFUGEE/RESTAURANT WORKER: Yeah, I was so scared, so scared. There's all the bombing stuff. See, also shaking our building.

RIVERS: He was studying there for a degree in business administration and wants to go back. But for now, he and his colleagues spend a part of their day cooking free meals for refugees.

EZEUDO: At least I'm helping. So I'm going to give some people food, you know, so people that doesn't have anything to eat.

RIVERS: Back at the border, hundreds of refugees are headed in Budapest direction, Anmol picks up some tickets, hands them out, then picks up some bags and walks people to the train. He has done this every single day for a month now. So from us a question.

(On camera): How long do you think you're going to stay here?

GUPTA: As long as needed.

RIVERS: As long as needed? And when will that be?

GUPTA: No idea. That's the thing. I have no idea. But I believe that there will be some point when people will stop coming. RIVERS: But that time hasn't yet come and so he keeps helping amidst a crowd of people who need it. It's right where he wants to be. Matt Rivers, CNN on the Hungary Ukraine border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Moldova has taken in about the same number of refugees as Hungary about 350,000 but here's the difference for Moldova, a tiny country they've taken in more refugees per capita than any other countries, a small country with no other resources and those resources are now being strained.

[01:10:08]

Stephanie Christensen is with ShelterBox. And she provides vital supplies for those refugees. And as many of these countries. She joins us now from Moldova with more on this.

Thank you for taking the time to speak with us. I just want to tell you the big picture, though, because how do you wrap your head, around 10 million people being forced from their homes, many in need of shelter? And clearly you can't help everyone? So how do you deal with a crisis like this? How do you prioritize who gets what and when?

STEPHANIE CHRISTENSEN, SHELTERBOX RESPONSE TEAM MEMBER IN MOLDOVA: It's very challenging. ShelterBox is an international disaster relief organization. And we focus primarily on emergency shelter and vital supplies. We work all over the world in conflict zones and rapid onset disasters. And so we do have experience dealing with crises like this with the Syrian war in Yemen. But it is incredibly challenging. And so we are working with our partners and using our expertise, to try to target the people that might not receive aid in other ways, and just do as much as we possibly can.

VAUSE: So let's talk about Moldova for a moment, because there's been a lot of focus on Poland, which is taking the majority of the 4 million Ukrainians who fled because of the war. But the situation in Moldova is one of which is a country which is under strain, because it just doesn't have the resources to deal with so many people. So what's the situation there?

CHRISTENSEN: So most of the people coming here, there's 387,000 now and they're primarily coming from Odessa, in Ukraine, and some are driving themselves over the border, most are arriving on buses, and some are coming on foot. The vast majority are here in Chi?inau, in the capital, where there are 75 collective centers. And the government is actually doing an incredible job with their limited resources, in partnership with humanitarian organizations, giving everybody in those collective centers what they need. But that's only 10% of the refugee population. The majority of people are renting apartments or staying with host families, and they're outside of that coordination system. And so that's where ShelterBox is focusing our efforts.

VAUSE: So ShelterBox has now started operations here in Lviv in western Ukraine. So for those who are receiving assistance from you, what are they telling you about their lives, what they've lost, and what they need now?

CHRISTENSEN: So we have three projects going on. One is in the Lviv providing collective centers with mattresses for people to sleep on. And we're also planning a project more on the frontlines of conflict for people to be provided shelter kits, which are tarps tools and building materials to make buildings habitable again, as well as solar lights, blankets, water purification. And for those people, obviously, the situation is incredibly desperate, still living on the frontlines of conflict.

Here in Moldova, the people that we're talking to, it's almost all women and children. I met a woman yesterday, she has four small children, she left her husband and her eight year old mother behind, fled with just the clothes they could carry. He got here and obviously an incredibly stressful journey. And then you're in a new country, you don't know what's next, you don't know when you'll be able to go home. And even though things are very well coordinated, at the moment, there's still a lot of uncertainty for these people, they no longer have their income coming in. You don't know whether they're here long enough to get a job. So I think the more comfort we can provide to people in their onward journeys, that's what we're here to do, make things as easy as possible for them.

VAUSE: And sadly, it doesn't seem that this war will end anytime soon. So that means there will be more people, who are forced to leave their homes, especially in the eastern part of Ukraine, help you to continue this help as more people seek safety. And I guess, you know, how long will they have this welcome in other countries to?

CHRISTENSEN: I'm not sure about how, how long they'll have the welcome in other countries, but ShelterBox is prepared to do everything we can for as long as needed. All of our efforts are funded by public donations, and if people care to donate to our efforts@shelterbox.org and if we have the funds will be here as long as we can be.

VAUSE: Stephanie, thank you, and thank you for what you're doing. It's very much appreciated. It is good work, and you're obviously caring for so many people right now. So thank you for you and your organization.

CHRISTENSEN: Thank you so much for having me.

VAUSE: OK. And if you'd like to help the people of Ukraine who are in need of shelter, food, other essential supplies, please go to cnn.com/impact you will find a number of ways you can help.

Still to come, a standoff over gas is going on between Europe and Russia will tell you how the E.U. is responding to Moscow's demand for payments in rubles.

[01:15:00]

Plus, there's a growing push to get India and China to take a tougher stance against Moscow. Russia's top diplomat is making a counter move. We'll tell you what that is in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Welcome back everyone, Moscow trading kind of gas supplies to European countries now, unless they pay in rubles. You can see here the pipelines from Russia to Europe and President Vladimir Putin says unfriendly nations must pay in rubles or contracts will be suspended. These new rules are set to take effect today. E.U. officials though say they will not be blackmailed by Moscow. France, Germany say they will stick to the existing agreements with Russia on making payments in euros only. U.K. says it will not accept Putin's demands either. And here's what the U.S. officials are saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: This is just another indication of the dire straits that Russia's economy is in. This is a reflection of the fact that the sanctions, the export controls, the other economic measures including the measures, the additional measures that we announced today have had a significant substantial profound effect on the Russian economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:20:19]

VAUSE: There'd be two major countries reluctant to condemn the Russian invasion and they're about to engage in some very high level diplomacy. India is hosting the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov will soon begin talks with his Indian counterpart. And in China leaders are likely to take heat from the E.U. during a virtual summit set to begin in a few hours from now.

CNN correspondents were closely following these meetings. We have Kristie Lu Stout live in Hong Kong, Vedika Sud also standing by in New Delhi, but first we'll go to Kristie there in Hong Kong. So how will the summit unfold, like what are we looking at here on the agenda?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, this is going to be a very tense meeting, John, emitted already rocky relationship we're going to see this high level summit takes place between top E.U. leaders and the Chinese leadership including Li Keqiang and Xi Jinping.

On the table, you have trade, climate change, health, the list goes on. But in the eyes of E.U. officials, the focus will be on the war in Ukraine and namely, China's relationship with Russia after the invasion.

Now, in the run up to today's meeting, some very strong comments were given by a top E.U. official. I want to share them with you. Let's bring it up for you. This is from the head of the European Parliament delegation for relations with China. And he said this, "The veil is threadbare and it fools no one in regards to China's stance on Russia. It goes on to say, the way in which China handles this conflict will have bearing on the future overall E.U.-China relationship, "which gives an indicator of the stakes being really high going into the summit. But a breakthrough is not expected to come out of this meeting, again about 4 p.m. local time. That's when they're going to be meeting with Li Keqiang, Chinese Premier four hours after that. They will be meeting with the Chinese President Xi Jinping. And the reason why that breakthrough is not expected is because of the nature of the relationship with China and Russia. They have doubled down on their pre-war relationship as we saw earlier this week, Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister touching down in Tongzhi, China, it's an (inaudible) province for meetings with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi. Wang Yi gave no indication that China was going to join Western condemnation of Russia and its actions in Ukraine.

In fact, almost just the opposite. Let's bring up this statement for you that was issued after day one of those talks between Lavrov and Wang Yi, where we heard from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Spokesperson saying, "There is no ceiling for China Russia cooperation, no ceiling for us to strive for peace, no ceiling for us to safeguard security and no ceiling for us to oppose hegemony."

So John, China, they're declaring its relationship with Russia having quote no ceiling, this coming just months after they declared between Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping that the relationship had no limits. Back to you.

VAUSE: Explain this though, Kristie, you know, China's economy is relying significantly more on the E.U. and the U.S., then Russia. So why is Beijing continuing to insist on these friendly ties with Moscow?

LU STOUT: Yeah, John, it's interesting issue, and we've talked about this before. It's China wants to play both roles. China wants to play the role of an international peacemaker are calling for de-escalation, calling for negotiation for talks to be seen as an honest broker on the world stage. And yet China also wants to preserve its alliance with Russia. These are two countries that have a shared ideology. They are authoritarian, authoritarian nations after all, they're also in alignment in regards to how they view the west. They feel hemmed in by the West. Russia, accusing the E.U. and its allies of encirclement, Beijing accusing the U.S. and its allies of containment. This is what brings both sides so closely together and this is also the reason why China has yet to condemn Russia's actions, let alone call versus actions, an invasion, which of course, it is in was. Back to you.

VAUSE: And from Hong Kong, we head over to New Delhi, we have Vedika Sud standing by live for us there. So Vedika, this meeting between Sergey Lavrov and his Indian counterpart, what are we expecting from that, because these two countries, Russia and India seem to have fairly cozy relations at the moment?

VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely historical in many ways, John, and the world will be watching Lavrov's visit to India. It comes at a time when you also have the U.S. Deputy National Security Adviser in India and the U.K. Foreign Secretary in India, remember, there's been a whole list of top officials from the U.K., the U.S., you have Japanese Prime Minister and India as well to meet with his counterpart Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, some days ago. So they've been a lot of leaders who've been coming knocking at India's door to understand their position and push for India to take a stand against Russia.

But that's not going to happen anytime soon. And here's why, like you pointed out, John, India and Russia share a strong ties.

[01:25:02]

We also have to understand here that India massively depends on Russia for its defense equipment more than 50% of India's major arms come from Russia. And that's one reason why India cannot really take a stand. And now one country that will be watching very closely is the United States of America. They do understand the geographical compulsions, the geopolitical compulsions of India. And that's the reason why when Putin came to India last year, in the month of December, one of his very rare trips outside his country during the pandemic, the whole idea of sanctions being imposed against India was not actually carried forward by America. And the reason for that is they understand that India is the only counter to China, its adversary in the region.

Now, affiliate CNN News 18 spoke with the Deputy National Security Adviser of America Daleep Singh. And here's what he had to say quite a message to India.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DALEEP SINGH, U.S. DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: If we did nothing, if there was unchecked aggression, in response to the largest land invasion since World War II, think of the chilling effect it would cause, the uncertainties, the signal it would send to autocrats all over the world that might want to exert a sphere of influence, perhaps on India's borders. Those are not costs we're willing to accept.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUD: Lavrov will be meeting with India's foreign minister and then he will be meeting with India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi, according to a senior government official, who's privy to the preparation for talks, Modi will once again reiterate the need and stress for the need for talks and the cessation of hostility. John.

VAUSE: Vedika Sud there in New Delhi, Kristie Lu Stout also live for us in Hong Kong this hour, thanks to you both.

We're receiving reports of a fire and oil depot in Belgorod, Russia just across the border from Kharkiv, Ukraine, a result of an airstrike by two Ukrainian helicopters that flew in at a low altitude. CNN though unable to verify the claim. That's according to Bel Gograd governor and his telegram channel. The governor said two employees were injured in the fire but are not in danger.

Russian news agencies test says the firing golf fuel reservoirs. Firefighters are on the scene. There is no threat to local population at this stage. More on that when we get it. Russia's war in Ukraine appears to be now shifting to the Donbass region to the east. When we come back, the Capital and others key cities are seeing a dramatic surge in shelling and missile strikes as well. Those details in a moment.

Also, Ukraine shows off destroyed Russian armored east of Kyiv. We'll hear from some of the Ukrainian soldiers who delivered the fatal blows.

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[01:32:03]

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back everybody. I'm John Vause reporting from Lviv in Ukraine.

The U.S. says Russian military fire now appears to be concentrated on four areas here including the capital.

According to a senior U.S. defense official, Russian air attacks have stepped up significantly over the past 24 hours. Ukraine's president says Russian forces appear to be shifting their focus to the Donbas region, which is mostly controlled by pro Russian separatists, an indication of the extent of the Russian losses so far.

The U.K.'s military intelligence says Moscow now bringing in reinforcements from Georgia. NATO's chief says Russia's military is trying to regroup, re-arm to new offensives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: According to our intelligence, Russian units are not withdrawing but repositioning. At the same time, Russia maintains pressure on Kyiv and other cities. So we can expect additional offensive actions bringing even more suffering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: The Ukrainian soldiers who have so far successfully defended the capital of Kyiv say it's their stronger morale and spirit which gives them the advantage over the Russians but still life in Kyiv is becoming increasingly difficult for those who remain facing acute shortages of essential supplies.

We get more now from CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The first thing you notice approaching the front northeast of Kyiv are the lines of villagers waiting for humanitarian handouts. They receive a bag of bread and basics to get them through these difficult days.

"The first week of the war shell hit us near the greenhouse. We barely survived," says this woman. "We had help from strangers around us. They give us bread and canned food. We wouldn't have managed otherwise."

No one here knows when this war will end or whether Russia still has designs on Kyiv. The frontline is about a mile away. For now, an uneasy calm previous ever since the Ukrainian defenders stopped the Russian advance here. It was February 28th they say, day four of the war.

They want to show us how they did it, but first, we have to clamber over the bridge they downed to see the armored column they managed to take out.

The riverbank is littered with their skeletons, this was a turkey shoot, Russian armored vehicles and tanks have come off the road to avoid the anti tank mines, only to find themselves unable to cross the bridge and unable to reverse in time. Ukrainian forces tell us none of the soldiers inside survived.

A little further up the road, two tanks have been virtually smelted, lasted almost to smithereens. 40-year-old Yevgeni (ph), a veteran fighter, proudly tells us this was his handiwork.

[01:34:51]

AMANPOUR: "We all here have one role, to keep the enemy off our land," he says. "First thing they did after seeing the village, they started to shell houses, just like that. They didn't see us. They didn't know we were here. So they just started to work on houses. So I took the tank in my sights and I fired a rocket, and goodbye to him."

The destroyed vehicles are stamped with an O. The Ukrainian officers here tell us this identifies them as Russian units that entered from Belarus to the north.

Oleg is the officer who commanded this operation.

"As for, now looking at previous fighting we've had, I can tell you that we are trained better," he tells me. "We have stronger morale and spirit because we are at home. They are afraid, but they go because they are made to."

He's been battle-hardened ever since the first Russian invasion in 2014. He says his side has weapons, ammunition and determination to win.

"I can tell you I'm almost sure the Russians are regrouping and not retreating," he says. Besides, we are preparing ourselves to go forward, we are not preparing just to defend here."

U.S. and British intelligence say Putin seems to have, quote, "massively misjudged" the situation, and clearly overestimated the abilities of his military to secure a rapid victory.

This old lady tells us "I have seen one war and here we go again. I wish Putin would go away." The people of this land remains stalwart and the soldiers remain dug-

in, hoping they can continue to withstand whatever Putin has in store for them next.

Christiane Amanpour, CNN -- east of Kyiv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Let's get back now to Atlanta an Michael Holmes, Michael.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Good to see you, John. Good to see you there too. And I don't know your first impressions of Lviv, it's a beautiful city.

I mean what one of the interesting things as why it has been spared through all of this, apart from a couple of (INAUDIBLE) on the periphery of the city.

VAUSE: It's a good question, because when we came in a few days ago we crossed the border from Poland into Ukraine, and there was a supply line of trucks as long as you can see. Bringing everything that this country needs into Ukraine.

And it makes you wonder why this area has not been a target by the Russian forces because it would be fairly easy to bomb that road, to close it down. And also why is this area being spared.

It makes you wonder if the plan is for Putin to basically evacuate the east, send everyone to the west, and split the country in half.

So that was my first impression coming in, you know, I guess let's wait and see what happens.

HOLMES: Yes, exactly. A lot of people thought that, you know, it was said that Zelenskyy had to flee (INAUDIBLE) Lviv and that set up a government in that part of the country, you've got to wonder.

And it's a good point too when it comes to the convoys that you saw coming in too. Why are the convoys of arms that are coming as well still have not yet been targeted by the Russians?

VAUSE: And they are coming across that border from Poland in great numbers. We know more lethal aid is arriving I think from Spain, from the U.K. They're going to up that kind of weapons which are now contributing to the Ukrainian defense forces. Much more lethal aid.

Armored vehicles as well, still short of what Zelenskyy wanted, but he's getting much of a sort of the stuff (ph) one like the armored vehicles, the increased range artillery. So they can go toe to toe with the Russians

They got a big disadvantage over the last couple of weeks because of that but now that sort of being evened out a little with this new military aid which is on its way.

HOLMES: Yes. Good point, good point. Good to see you there, my friend. I will point out it's probably 20 degrees warmer than when I was there. But good for you.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: I imagine it is. Good to see you, John. Talk to you soon.

VAUSE: Thanks, mate.

HOLMES: All right. We'll take a quick break.

When we come, back some of the measures President Vladimir Putin is taking to bolster Russian troops in Ukraine as the conflict now enters its fifth week.

We'll be right back

[01:38:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: There are new signs that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not going well or according to plan for the Russians. President Vladimir Putin signing a decree authorizing more than 134,000 people to be drafted into the Russian military that is part of a biannual call up.

But Mr. Putin had originally claimed that Russian conscripts would not take part in the Ukraine conflict.

Now the U.S. believes Mr. Putin is being misinformed by his advisers about the Russian military's performance and Ukraine, that's according to a U.S. official.

Here's what U.S. President Joe Biden had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a lot of speculation, but he seems to be -- I'm not saying this with certainty -- he seems to be self isolating and there's some indication that he has fired or put under house arrest some of his advisers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now I want to bring in Douglas London. he's a retired senior CIA operations officer. He's also the author of "The Recruiter: spying and the Lost Art of American Intelligence".

It's great to have you back on the program. I always enjoy the conversation.

Let's start with this. the U.K. saying its intel shows that Russian soldiers are, you know, low on morale, sabotaging their own equipment, and so on. What do you make of such intel being publicly shared once again as a strategy, apparently? How have intel agencies impacted this war?

DOUGLAS LONDON, RETIRED SENIOR CIA OPERATIONS OFFICER: Intelligence is featured in the conversation on this conflict in a way that's absolutely unprecedented. It seems to account for the (INAUDIBLE) calculus on which Putin made some very bad decisions. And it's been used as an instrument of national power by the United States as well as its allies.

[01:44:54]

LONDON: It's been used to expose Russian falsehoods and designs. It's been used to leverage public opinion and shape that opinion so that we've seen the likes of Poland and Germany who might perhaps, a few months ago, been less tough in front as they have been, to be very much out in front and supporting this war effort.

So they continue to go and go to the well with this, but it seems to be having some very good consequences. And I think, really reshaping the way the public looks at intelligence and intelligence agencies, and the way governments are beginning to think how can we make intelligence work for us?

HOLMES: It really has been remarkable how it's been utilized as a strategy. I mean President Biden suggested a few days ago that Vladimir Putin shouldn't be in power. He should be removed. And I know you wrote an opinion piece on CNN.com that actually makes the point that that makes it more difficult for those in Russia who might also want that. How so?

LONDON: Well, Russian politics, the internal politics of those within the elite, is all about conspiracy and consensus. And there is a history of those in the Politburo in the Soviet Union and since, challenging authority but doing so very carefully.

The last thing these people are, and they're often referred to as the Soluvoki (ph), vernacular for the strongmen of Russia, those who previously served in the military or the intelligence services that came up with Putin over the years of his reign.

They are not U.S. friends, but they might act in their self interest. What they don't need is the U.S. encouraging them publicly and suggesting there's any sort of cabal or alliance between them. If they act, it's going to be for their own self interest, and they certainly don't want to appear to be cast as U.S. puppets. If anything, that only serves Putin's interest.

HOLMES: Yes. That could backfire. What is your assessment of the chances of Putin being removed from within, if you like? Are there forces within the power structure who might have both the inclination and the opportunity to effect his removal and what might persuade them to do so? Or do you think he is secure for now?

LONDON: There is always that potential. It's hard to see the minds of those around him. But Russian leaders have generally been opportunists at best, as opposed to ideologues.

The question is, is that what we need? What we're seeking strategically is to change Russian behavior. Whether it's Putin or someone else, I don't really think other than some grassroots revolution that brings forth democracy is really going to make Russia a friend of the west. Not based on those who are in the circles of power.

But what we do want to find is a way to change their behavior, to adjust only the malign behavior, and to make it more compatible with our interest.

Certainly, removal of a regime is a tactic, but it usually comes with a lot bigger consequences, particularly when you don't know what's going to come in the place of what you've already known.

HOLMES: Yes. As we've said, you worked in the intel world, the spy world for decades. How difficult do you think it has been to get accurate intel on Putin given his apparent predilection for staying isolated even from his own people?

LONDON: Well, it's interesting because General Walters, the supreme NATO commander, made a comment the other day about, well, our miscalculations on the capabilities of the Russian army was perhaps due to a collection gap. I mean inherently, intelligence is always incomplete, so it's imperfect, there's always a collection gap.

But let's say the CIA, which is a strategic collector, did its job to the utmost, and it had eyes and ears all around Putin, and we were hearing and seeing everything Putin heard. Well if you're getting the same intelligence on which put made his miscalculations, we would be coming up with the same assessments.

So, I think there's something to be said for what the United States has recently declassified, that Putin has been getting bad intelligence. I think that's been evident from the beginning.

But that's a culture that he has created, that hubris, that sort of emperor with no clothes persona, that nobody really wants to tell him bad news. No one wants to argue against his predetermined conclusions.

HOLMES: Fascinating. I was going to ask another question but you just answered it. So, we will leave it there.

Always good to have you on, Douglas London. We will get you back real soon.

LONDON: Thanks, Michael.

Quick break here on the program.

When we come back, football fans eagerly awaiting the draw for this year's World Cup. We will have a preview of what to expect after the break.

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HOLMES: Well, the draw for this year's World Cup is now just hours away. 32 nations split into eight groups to compete in Qatar. And there will be some newcomers to this year's tournament.

CNN World Sport's anchor, Amanda Davies has a preview from Doha.

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AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: As host Qatar prepared for their debut at a World Cup finals, they're guaranteed to place in Group A and find themselves alongside some of the biggest names in the game in part one.

It doesn't get much bigger than Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi and their respective sides Portugal and Argentina. As well as defending champions France, Belgium, England, Brazil, and Spain.

European champions, Italy, are missing after failing to qualify for the second World Cup in a row. But the Netherlands are back and aside that many will be looking to avoid from part two, alongside Germany, the 2014 champions very much looking to make amends for that disastrous defense of their title in Russia.

The 2018 runners-up, Croatia, are also in the spot alongside Denmark buoyed by the return of (INAUDIBLE).

[01:54:50]

DAVIES: The U.S. are back in this part two, alongside their co-host for the next World Cup, Mexico and the (INAUDIBLE) squad of Uruguay. Sadio Mane (ph) and Africa Cup of Nations Champion Senegal lead the way in part three, but he's not the only superstar striker in this one. There is Robert Lewandowski (ph) in Poland, Son Heung-min and South Korea, alongside Iran, Japan, Serbia, Morocco, and Tunisia.

Part 4 is where things get complicated. With unusually three teams yet to be decided. But they will still be in the draw alongside Ecuador, Saudi Arabia, Ghana, Cameroon, and the Canadian side on the crest of a wave. Having qualified for their first World Cup finals since 1986.

Amanda Davies, CNN -- Doha, Qatar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes.

John Vause returns with our coverage of the war in Ukraine right after the break.

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