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Russian Forces Leave Areas They Occupied Earlier In War; International Red Cross Still Unable To Get Into Mariupol; Three Russian Missiles Fired Over 24 Hours Ago At Odessa Region; Interview With Ivo Daalder, Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO; U.S. Officials Prepare For Record Surge Of Migrants; Ukrainian Refugees Having Their Babies Far From Home; Americans Face Soaring Home, Rent, And Construction Prices; Fauci: U.S. Needs To Be Prepared For Annual COVID-19 Booster. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 02, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINA IVASHCHENKO, 14-YEAR-OLD UKRAINIAN CARTOONIST (through translation): It was very scary. When I came out of the basement into the street, all the houses were on fire. Black smoke everywhere. All houses, all glass, it was simply gone.

I drew this for myself for the future so that, later, I could see what I experienced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Karin's family sheltered in their basement. This one you see here with no electricity, no heat, no water supply. They have since escaped to Poland.

For more information about how you can help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, just logon to CNN.com/impact. CNN audiences have already donated more than $7 million.

Good evening. I'm Erica Hill in New York. Pamela Brown has the night off. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

On this Saturday night, there are major signs of a shift in Russia's war against Ukraine. Ukraine's deputy defense minister said Kyiv is, quote, "liberated" from the invader.

While CNN is not able to verify that claim, the Ukrainian military is regaining control of suburbs around the capital.

We're also seeing tonight this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Ex-prisoners of war newly freed. And 86 Ukrainian servicemembers, including 15 women, released in a prisoner swap.

Some of them sharing horror stories about their time and their treatment in Russian captivity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED UKRAINIAN EX-PRISONER OF WAR (through translation): At first, they took us very aggressively and made us shout, "Glory to Russia." And whoever didn't want to do that, they used physical measures.

UNIDENTIFIED UKRAINIAN EX-PRISONER OF WAR (through translation): They hit me in the face with machine gun butts and kicked me. My front teeth were also chipped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: For whatever setbacks the Russians are suffering tonight, Vladimir Putin appears to be resetting the goals of his invasion, moving those goalposts.

U.S. officials telling CNN it's a revised strategy, which is now focused on taking control of the Donbas and other regions in the east.

And Putin may want them in control by May 9th. Why May 9th? It's a key holiday from Russian known as Victory Day and commemorates the Nazis surrendering in World War II.

The newest pictures and sounds that we have for you still prove that the nation remains under siege. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSIONS)

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Gunfire and explosions aimed at peaceful protesters today, not far from the nuclear power plant. That's the one Russians attacked and seized a month ago.

We have another view for you of the apparent flash bang rounds and automatic weapons being used today. Four people were injured.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSIONS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The Russians also reportedly used prison buses to round up demonstrators. More developments to tell you about tonight in Ukraine. A member of

Ukraine's negotiating team in talks with Russia says that the Russian side is responding positively to Ukrainian positions on a number of issues.

And that it could lead to the possibility of, quote, "direct consultations between President Zelenskyy and Putin."

We're going to take a closer look at that and what it can mean in a few moments.

The International Red Cross is on the ground in Europe but still unable to get into the besieged city of Mariupol. For the moment, the Red Cross says conditions made it impossible to proceed.

And Pope Francis says a trip to Ukraine is on the table for him. He didn't offer details but he did leave open the possibility after being questioned by reporters while traveling to Malta today.

Our correspondents are covering the situation across Ukraine.

Phil Black in Lviv tonight with the newest information on that Russian troop presence -- Phil?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erica, President Zelenskyy says Russian forces are leaving the north of the country. In some cases, he says they are withdrawing voluntarily. From other areas, they had been expelled by Ukrainian counterattacks.

You see it near the capital. Satellite images show there are positions that Russia held very early on in the invasion, in which they fought to hold as they sought to surround the capital, which are now abandoned. Notably, the town of Bucha and the Antonov Airfield.

And adviser to President Zelenskyy says Ukrainian forces have captured more than 30 settlements near Kyiv.

Further north, the Ukrainian flag flies again over the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant after Russian forces suddenly departed that site and the surrounding area.

But none of this is any cause for celebration here because the Ukrainian government believes all of those forces will simply replenish.

And then likely rejoin the fight in the east of the country as Russia seeks to expand and consolidate control over the Donbas region.

[20:05:03]

Another adviser to President Zelenskyy says, if Russia develops a strong foothold in the east and the south, it will likely consolidate those positions, dig in, fortify.

And will be very difficult to dislodge unless Western allies supply heavier weapons to the Ukrainian military -- Erica?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Phil Black, with the latest for us from Lviv. Phil, thank you.

Turning our attention now to Odessa in the south there, where CNN's Ed Lavandera has been for the last few days.

Ed, good to see you tonight.

Just a moment ago, we were talking about just how difficult it's been for the International Red Cross to get to Mariupol to bring aid in there. And we do have these reports of some people being able to escape the city.

What are -- what is your understanding of the situation now? And what was able to be done today?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, the International Red Cross is saying that they have tried once again to reach Mariupol and have been unsuccessful.

This has been going on now for several days. Promises of humanitarian corridors being opened up but never really coming to fruition.

But you're right, about a little more than 1,200 people were able to evacuate the city of Mariupol. But they did so by driving their own vehicles to get away.

You know, a very dangerous situation. That has proven to be, for these people, as well as for countless others who have been attacked in those very same kinds of situations over recent weeks.

So the humanitarian crisis there just gets -- becomes worse and worse and worse as the days go by.

And it's even hard to imagine how we can possibly continue saying that. Some officials have said they're running out of adjectives to describe how bad the situation there is in Mariupol.

And, you know, 1,200 is a decent number. But consider the fact that there are still about 100,000 people that need to be evacuated from that city.

So it's just a desperate situation -- Erica?

HILL: It absolutely is.

Meantime, where you are in Odessa, there were Russian missile strikes yesterday. What was it like today? And what can you tell us about Friday's attack?

LAVANDERA: It was quiet today. No air raid sirens.

We haven't really gotten a lot of clarity on exactly what the target of these missile strikes. There were three missiles fired a little over 24 hours ago here at the Odessa region in southern Ukraine.

Military officials have been -- have released very little information so we haven't gotten any indication that any kind of civilian targets were struck.

In fact, one military official said that the three missiles that were fired from the Crimean peninsula did not hit their intended targets.

But beyond that, we don't have a sense of what it was that the Russian forces were going after with this -- with this missile strike and what the repercussions have been on the ground.

Very little information on that front.

HILL: All right, Ed Lavandera, in Odessa, stay safe, my friend. Thank you.

I want to bring in now Ivo Daalder, the U.S. ambassador -- he was the U.S. ambassador to NATO under President Obama.

Mr. Ambassador, good to have you with us.

Late this week, there seemed to be some optimism that was coming out of these talks in Istanbul.

Until Friday, when there was an attack on an oil refinery in Russia. Russia blamed that on Ukraine. Said it would hurt efforts for diplomacy.

Ukraine, in a statement, wouldn't confirm or deny involvement in the attack.

What's interesting, though, is then, today, we heard from one of the Ukrainian negotiators who sounded pretty positive, noting there had been some advances, perhaps there was even a chance for direct talks between Zelenskyy and Putin.

What do you read into this and what do you think is going on at those talks and how much optimism do you have?

IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: I think what we're seeing is just a continuation of the warfare and other means using statements about making progress on peace negotiations.

Coming particularly from the Ukrainians who want to make sure that if there's no progress, it's the Russians who are tore perioding it.

After the Istanbul talk, the Turks were positive. But within the day, the Russians were again saying not a lot of progress is being made. Not much happening.

Then, of course, the attack on the oil facility, which is an important military target for the Ukrainians to hit on Russian territory, led the Russians to say, if you fight us on our soil, we won't talk.

Unfortunately, the Russians have been fighting on Ukrainian soil for the better part of six weeks.

So I think what we're seeing is, you know, shadow boxing in some ways. But I don't really think we're anywhere close to having a real negotiation or a real agreement.

[20:10:06]

HILL: U.S. officials and CNN learned, based on intelligence intercepts, the thinking earlier this week, too, in light of what we were learning about the misinformation that Vladimir Putin was being given.

How terribly we know -- we can see how things are going on the ground there -- that there would perhaps be an effort to shift focus to somehow save face.

Now that's coming to light in these intel intercepts we're learning about from U.S. officials that Putin wants to be able to point to a, quote, "victory" in eastern Ukraine in early May that would coincide, of course, with that Victory Day in Russia.

By shifting this goalpost, what does that effectively change beyond the messaging?

DAALDER: Well, I mean, the goalposts, if they are shifted -- and it looks like the military forces are also starting to concentrate particularly in the east as well as parts of the south -- that's a big shift.

It means that they're giving up the idea of taking Kyiv and changing the government. After all, that was and has always been the real purpose here.

There's really no interest in Russia to have a part of Ukraine in the far east. What they really want is to control the future of Ukraine's destinies, decisions with regard to its own foreign policy.

And it was hoping to do that with military force very, very quickly.

If they now retreat and basically settle for what, frankly, the Russians almost achieved back in 2014 when they annexed Crimea and formed a separatist movement inside the Donbas region.

If that's all they end up with, 15, perhaps 20 even more thousand deaths on the Russian side, it's going to be very hard for Vladimir Putin to sell that as anything like the great victory that May 9th is supposed to celebrate.

He really is in a box. And it's one of his own creation.

HILL: How concerning is that box? How concerning is it to have Vladimir Putin backed into a corner?

DAALDER: Well, it is. And only a week or so ago, people in Brussels were thinking about escalation. And we do have to worry about the fact that he is in some ways regrouping rather than giving in. He's not turning tail. He's taking his forces away from Kyiv. He's not

achieving some key objectives.

But it doesn't mean he doesn't have a lot of very, very dangerous arrows still that he can shoot off.

One of which is, of course, using chemical weapons or even nuclear weapons. That remains a real issue.

It remains something we need to be concentrating on and need to remember that, even if this was a good week for Ukrainian forces, the Russians are strong. They have real capabilities.

This is going to take quite a while of really brutal fighting and perhaps even some serious escalation. We all got to be prepared for that.

HILL: And Ukraine warning, right, that there are difficult days ahead in the southern and eastern parts of the country.

President Zelenskyy continued his push, his global appeals this week. And he has, as we saw here in the U.S., as we've seen in every country he's spoken to, right, he's tailoring that message. In the U.S., he invoked Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

As we watch him continue to speak out, to continue to plead for more help, this is further evidence, I think of this information campaign that Ukraine is waging.

You mentioned the way that they're also talking about these discussions in Turkey -- that's an important part of this information campaign. Do you think, at this point, it's having a tangible impact five weeks in?

DAALDER: You know, I think it does. I think Zelenskyy, in particular -- of course, he's been able to rally his own people with his nightly video conferences that he has and television addresses.

But he's also really, frankly, asked a lot from the Western world. And we're all sitting there and saying, OK, what more can we do? And it's working.

We are now latest reports are that the United States is helping to send Soviet-era tanks into Ukraine. We are upping our own capabilities that we're shipping in.

We announced yesterday another $300 million worth of equipment. That brings it to $1.65 billion of U.S. equipment being shipped into Ukraine since the start of the war.

The Brits are doing it. The French are doing it. The Germans are doing it.

We're providing significant intelligence capability, not least because Zelenskyy has been very, very effective in pointing out that we're on the front line of freedom. We're fighting for all of you. And if you're not going to be here in person, please give us the

equipment to do the fighting for ourselves.

[20:15:00]

HILL: Ambassador Ivo Daalder, I appreciate your taking the time to join us tonight. Thank you.

DAALDER: My pleasure.

HILL: Still to come, Ukrainian women crossing the border into Poland in time to give birth. They'll share their stories and where they're at right now.

Plus, with rents and mortgages on the rise, some Americans are learning a fixer-upper may not be the cheapest way to get into home ownership.

Plus, a pandemic-era rule that turned away migrants at the border is soon set to expire. We're going to bring you the latest from the southern border next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: U.S. border officials are bracing for a surge of migrants after the Biden administration announced it will end Title 42 next month. The Trump-era COVID restriction has been used to block migrants from entering the country.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is in McAllen, Texas.

Polo, what are they bracing for in terms of numbers and how are they preparing?

[20:20:03]

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Erica, the Department of Homeland Security says it is preparing for a worst-case scenario that could mean up to 18,000 people a day showing up at the nation's doorstep, asylum seekers.

Just to offer some perspective for our viewers, we heard yesterday from the head of DHS, Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, saying, right now, they're only seeing 7,000. I say only when you compare it to a worst- case scenario.

But there's the thing. Out of those 7,000, according to the secretary, about 50 percent of them are being expelled back south of the border, basically being deported through this Title 42 provision, this public health authority that's been in place for two years.

And the concern there is that once that is removed is that so many families that have basically decided to wait just south of the border, just right across the bridge from where I'm standing tonight, in Mexico. That as soon as that no longer is an issue, then they will finally make that very short journey to the nation's doorstep and request asylum.

And that's where critics of the Biden administration have basically been sounding off. For starters, even pleading with the Biden administration not to allow this to expire.

But yesterday, we heard from the government, basically allowing that to happen. And that is certainly concerning.

But of course, migrant advocates here and many of these groups are applauding the move, saying it has kept many of these families from reaching the relative safety of the United States for the last two years.

But now that that's gone, that's where we stand right now.

But again, the big test, the ultimate test will happen in late May when Title 42 is basically lifted.

And that will be the ultimate test for government agencies, local, state and federal, that have been working just constantly to make sure they can handle the flow, to see if it will be a coordinated effort or if we will once again see these overpopulated holding facilities.

And then, of course, immigration in a midterm year, becoming yet another big topic of debate.

HILL: Yes, absolutely.

Do we know, Polo, what is the asylum process going to look like? I mean, when we think about how many people are waiting, how long is this going to take?

SANDOVAL: Yes, well, basically, it will go from Title 42 to Title 8, which is the way it's been done for decades, which is people that are coming from other countries basically showing at a port of entry and declaring asylum and following the process.

As we heard from that secretary, again, many are to be deported. But so many others are released.

I heard from a Customs and Border Protection source just yesterday describing the plan as it's meant to be a streamlined and expedited process.

Because the concern is that, at border towns across the Rio Grande, we're seeing up to 10,000 people that have been waiting there for weeks, months, perhaps up to the two years.

And many of those people will certainly try to pour in. And that is where the U.S. government certainly is going to try to stay a step ahead.

And here on the ground, we're seeing not only the federal government but a lot of nonprofit groups gearing up and preparing for that kind of worst-case scenario.

Again, up to 18,000 people a day showing up at the nation's doorstep, if that's what we end up seeing.

HILL: Polo Sandoval, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Just ahead here, women and war. Women giving birth far from home. We'll introduce you to some of the youngest refugees, newborns and their mothers.

That's next in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:27:55]

HILL: When the first Russian missiles landed in Ukraine, a number of people had a difficult choice, especially pregnant women. Do they stay home in that war zone or do they try for a long treacherous journey across the border to hopefully give birth in a safer place?

CNN's Kyung Lah spoke with some new mothers who chose to flee to Poland.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Born just hours ago in Poland, Baby Adelina (ph) is already a survivor of the war in Ukraine.

(on camera): Is it -- is it hard to be happy?

KHRYSTYNA PAVLUCHENKO, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

LAH (voice-over): "It is," she says.

Adelina (ph) is Khrystyna Pavluchenko's first child.

KHRYSTYNA PAVLUCHENKO, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

LAH (on camera): You feel guilty? Why?

PAVLUCHENKO: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

LAH (voice-over): "Because I left," she says, left her home in Western Ukraine.

(EXPLOSION)

LAH: The war had begun. The bombing neared their city.

Pavluchenko escaped by bus, then walked on foot across the border. Paramedics rushed her to the hospital. She delivered Adelina (ph) a month early, separated from her family.

PAVLUCHENKO: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE) LAH: "My mother, sister, grandparents, still in Ukraine."

"He is killing our people," she says, of Vladimir Putin. "How could anyone be so cruel?"

MAGDA DUTSCH, INFLANCKA SPECIALIST HOSPITAL: I am terrified. I'm terrified that something like this can happen.

That you can live your everyday life and, all the sudden, because of decisions that you have no influence upon, there is a war and you have to flee. It's -- it's unbelievable. It's terrifying.

LAH (voice-over): Dr. Magda Dutsch is a psychiatrist at Inflancka Specialist Hospital in Warsaw.

The hospital, focused on treating women, has seen 80 Ukrainian patients this month, delivered 11 babies, and treated cancer patients like 58-year-old Tatiana Mikhailuk.

TATIANA MIKHAILUK, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

LAH: "I ran with my granddaughter in my arms," she says.

Missiles had already blown up the windows in their building. As they fled, something exploded next to their car. Her city is now occupied by Russians.

[20:29:59]

She is grateful for her doctors at the hospital and the free health care in Poland that is treating her cervical cancer.

Khrystyna is one of the doctors. We're not using her last name, because she herself is also a refugee from Ukraine, a mother of a 5- year-old, and a wife of a Ukrainian military man.

Your husband.

KHRYSTYNA, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE (through translator): My husband has been in the military since 2014. At the moment, he's in Lviv.

LAH: You had to leave your husband behind.

Yes, she says, now in Warsaw, I can't sit and do nothing, she says. I have this opportunity here to help women who fled the country.

With each breath, baby Adelina (PH) offers her mother a respite from the war.

What will you tell your daughter about her birth?

The truth, she says. We will tell her everything as it was. She should know the truth.

LAH: All the Ukrainian patients you've seen in this story that healthcare is being covered by the government of Poland, including all the care once they leave the hospital, and they're not the only ones. The Ministry of Health here in Poland says 197 Ukrainian children have been born in Poland since this war began.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Warsaw, Poland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: For more on how you can help the humanitarian efforts for Ukrainian refugees and for Ukraine, go to cnn.com/impact. CNN audience have already donated more than $7 million.

The White House is celebrating strong jobs reports, many Americans though struggling to keep up with skyrocketing home prices and prices for upkeep too. Up next, why that fixer-upper may not save you money in the long run.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:17]

HILL: The job market right now is red hot, employers adding 431,000 jobs in March. The unemployment rate just ticked down to eight pandemic low of 3.6 pandemic. That's all really good news. President Biden though acknowledging yesterday that rising inflation overshadows that and it's still a big battle at the moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: More and more Americans get jobs as they do. It's going to help ease the supply pressures we've seen. And that's good news for fighting inflation, it's good news for our economy. And it means that our economy has gone from being on the mend to being on the move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: With home prices and rent prices soaring though, many Americans are struggling to keep up. Routine maintenance costs are also on the rise, as you've likely learned, which means that fixer-upper that may have seemed like a good deal, maybe turning out to be the exact opposite.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLISON BRAUN, FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYER: This was nothing as I expected purchasing my first home.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Allison Braun bought her first home in February. After losing bidding wars and paying $75,000 over budget, she settled on a fixer-upper expecting to save some money.

BRAUN: It was really surprising getting in here and fixing things up. Overwhelming is another way I'd explain it. YURKEVICH: Rents are up a record 17 percent in the last year with homes up nearly 20 percent. And so our construction costs. Braun who works for the real estate company, Redfin, is redoing nearly every space in her home. The kitchen needed new counters.

BRAUN: And we were really surprised by the cost, especially the labor to put them in. We wanted to figure out a way of how we can do our countertops on our own and save cost and labor. So the concrete countertops were born.

YURKEVICH: She saved $3,300 by doing them with her partner. She tried the same with her floors, but underestimated how much she would need and the rapidly rising costs of lumber.

BRAUN: We didn't estimate enough wood for the first floor. And we went back to buy more wood for the flooring. And it ended up that after a month's time, the flooring went up about 25 cents per square foot.

YURKEVICH: But it's not just homeowners getting stuck with higher costs. Construction materials are up 24 percent in the last year.

Bill McGrath's company is installing elevators in this new residential housing complex in New Jersey. So far, they've put in two.

What are the materials in this elevator that you have seen an increase on?

BILL MCGRATH, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SOUTH JERSEY ELEVATOR: Well, right here you have electronics, which this is a stainless steel. Yes. The plastics, the electronic boards behind it, that's costing more. The ceilings, wood. You're standing on lumber. There are steel underneath.

YURKEVICH: Is all of it going up?

MCGRATH: Yes.

YURKEVICH: Supply chain slowdowns and demand have pushed construction costs up, forcing projects to come in over budget and over deadline.

How much more is this elevator going to cost than the one we just saw?

MCGRATH: We're at -- right this one here is going to cost 17 percent more material costs than the other two that we completed.

YURKEVICH: And he says his 18-person company is spending more on gas to bring materials in, up 24 percent in the last month, all of these rising costs will get passed down.

Where's the end?

MCGRATH: I guess the people that will be living here.

YURKEVICH: For Braun, the higher cost means accepting things like painting the outside of the house gets put on hold.

BRAUN: We'd love to get to hire somebody to do that. That's been put on the backburner now, and we're just going to have to learn to love the.

[20:40:00]

Vanessa Yurkevich, CNN, Cherry Hill, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: An annual COVID booster. Think of it like your yearly flu shot. Could that be the future? Chief White House medical advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci weighed in with CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE MEDICAL ADVISOR: We don't know this as a fact. But it could be that we may need an intermittent boost on a yearly basis until we get this level so low down because we don't know where COVID is going in the sense of the long, long range.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Dr. Peter Hotez joins me now, he's the co-director of the Center for vaccine development at Texas Children's Hospital. Always good to see you, Dr. Hotez. So Dr. Fauci there says, we should be prepared for annual COVID boosters. I know back in the fall, you wrote, we'd likely be good after that third shot. How are you feeling today? Do you think an annual booster could be in our future?

PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: Well, here's the problem, Erica, the mRNA technology may not be holding up as well in terms of boosters as we originally hope..

You know, I remember saying to you, you know, it's not going to be one and done and two and done, but it could be three and done. And I believe that at the time, but then we had disappointing news and that the effectiveness of the booster declined after several months to 66 percent against emergency room visit protection, 78 percent against hospitalizations, still good, but not as good as it was. And hence the reason now for the recommendation of the second booster.

The question now is, is that going to be the same issue? Is it going to decline after a few months? So I think that's the reason why Tony -- why Dr. Fauci, you know, mentions the possible need for an annual booster.

But there's an alternative to think about as well. And maybe we need to look beyond the mRNA technology to something else, for instance, a recombinant protein technology. We have a vaccine that's now been given to almost 20 million kids in India and looking along something along those lines, I think has to be on the table.

HILL: And that's the vaccine that you worked on?

HOTEZ: That's right. We -- we've developed a recombinant protein vaccine that's now been released for emergency use authorization. India, given almost 20 million kids, 12 to 14. It's been approved now in Botswana. And, you know, doesn't necessarily be our vaccine, but another protein-based vaccine.

And the other one is the Novavax vaccine. And maybe we should be looking at some of those for boosters, if they give you more durable and lasting -- long lasting protection. And this is going to be have to be a priority for the White House and the HHS agencies to really look at in detail.

HILL: Well as -- I mean, as we wait for that, and we wait for the science and the research to be there to let us know, the reality is some people in this country are now eligible for that fourth shot, right, those over 50 became eligible this week. The President, the Vice President got theirs.

How quickly do you think that fourth shot could be opened up to other age groups or even, frankly, to everybody?

HOTEZ: Well, I think it's a real possibility. Moderna originally looked to the FDA to look at this for all adults. Right now, it's been green lighted for those 50 and up. But I think, you know, we may have to broaden it over time.

And, you know, a lot of this is going to be driven by how much of a wave is going to be produced by the BA.2 subvariant or future variants over the summer in the southern states. I think that will drive it a lot as well. But I do think we're probably going to be looking at Universal second boosters at some point in this pandemic, if it continues.

HILL: Some good news that we're getting this week. Hospitalizations at their lowest point of COVID-19. This is such an important metric. What does that say to you about the pandemic as a whole? Are we leaving pandemic stage, entering endemic stage?

HOTEZ: Well, right now we're at the nadir. And people use the word endemic a lot. I don't really know what it means for COVID-19. Because we've seen how this actually goes in very dramatic waves. So it's not like it's just percolating along at a low level in perpetuity, it goes way down, then it goes way up.

So one of the big questions now is what happens with that BA.2 subvariant. It's not as clear cut as it was with the Alpha wave and the Delta wave and the Omicron wave, where once that became the dominant variant, then you saw a big peak.

With BA.2 in Western Europe, we're seeing it all over the map. In some places, it produces a big wave and other places it doesn't. So we're kind of holding our breath to see where things fall out in the United States. It may be one scenario that's being tossed around as maybe it'll be a regional wave not entire -- not across the entire country, but we'll have to see.

But in any case, because we've failed to vaccinate the world's low and middle-income countries with now generates all our worst variants of concern, even if we do OK with this be BA.2 subvariant, we should expect another wave across the southern in Texas during the summer and then maybe an annual winter wave until we figured out how to vaccinate the world.

[20:45:16]

HILL: Dr. Peter Hotez, appreciate it thank you.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

HILL: Everyday thousands of Ukrainians are fleeing the fighting in their country. Up next, have some of them have been forced to take unconventional routes to safety?

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[20:50:57]

HILL: Ukraine says more than 4,000 people were evacuated today through humanitarian corridors. But with Russian attacks making it really difficult to keep those corridors open, some refugees are turning to frankly work unconventional methods to try to get to safety.

CNN's Ben Wedeman reporting on one escape route that actually includes bribing Russian soldiers.

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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Everything will be all right, he sings, for every one of us.

Words of comfort for those desperately in need. Popular singer and former lawmakers yet those (INAUDIBLE) goes from village to village with a simple message.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smile.

WEDEMAN: This church in the village of Bashtanka is now home, temporary home for those who have managed to flee Russian-occupied territories.

Volunteering in the kitchen, Svetlana Lyashuk, finds peace but not peace of mind.

It's really hard, says Svetlana, people here are very nice, but I just want to go home.

Vitaly Butuchel, a mechanic in peacetime, now runs a complex operation feeding and housing the displaced.

VITALY BUTUCHEL, VOLUNTEER: This war, this (INAUDIBLE) this war make us like a family very closer.

WEDEMAN: The church feels like an oasis of the ordinary far from the madness outside. Early evening and a bus approaches (INAUDIBLE) Russian for children allows no guarantee of safety. It's coming from the town of Snihurivka, under Russian control. But it didn't pass through a humanitarian corridor negotiated by the Red Cross. The arrangement whereby these people are able to get out of the Russian occupied areas to here is very simple. Men on the bus give Russian soldiers food and cigarettes and the Russian soldiers let them pass.

Larisa Shevchencko made it out but remains tormented by fear for those who couldn't get away.

Everything is really bad, she says. Her parents in Snihurivka are still hiding out in the basement. She hopes they'll get out tomorrow.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Bashtanka, Southern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Heart-breaking. Well, the slap you saw and heard about the fallout. So what's next for Will Smith? Camilla Bernal joins us with a live report right after this. Stay with us.

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[20:55:34]

HILL: At nearly a week on the slap scene around the world, still being felt. Will Smith, in an emotional statement, resigned from the Motion Picture Academy after, of course, that slap, as he slapped Chris Rock across the face at the Oscars.

CNN's Camila Bernal joins us now live from Los Angeles. So we know the Academy accepted Smith's resignation. What exactly does that mean, though going forward? What's the real impact?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, so a couple of things. First, we don't know whether or not Will Smith will be invited to future Academy Awards. He also will not have access to film screenings that are being considered for an Oscar and he will not be able to vote on nominees or potential nominees. These are all things that he is giving up willingly.

As you mentioned in that resignation letter, he says that he will accept the consequences of his actions, and actions that he described as shocking and painful and inexcusable. So as you said, the Academy accepted that resignation, but they are still going to meet on April 18th to possibly discuss other consequences.

Now, according to the bylines, the code of conduct, they could talk about whether or not he loses his award. So there could be more coming later on this month. So we are waiting for that. And we're also waiting for Chris Rock to speak out because he says that he will talk about this in length and says that it will be funny but also serious. Erica?

HILL: Yes. Well, meantime, the resignation of course comes a day after we've been learning a little bit more about what was happening in those moments after this slap. The lead producer for the Oscars, Will Packer, talking about Chris Rocks' backstage reaction. What more did he reveal?

BERNAL: Yes. Look, Will Packer saying he was devastated. He said that his heart dropped as he was watching all of this and said he thought it was a joke. Had to wait for Chris Rock to get off stage to have confirmation that this really did happen. And then he said that after they all got in a meeting and they were there with LAPD and they were asking Chris Rock whether or not he wanted to press charges, and Chris Rock declined to do that. Here's what Will Packer said on ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILL PACKER, OSCARS PRODUCER: As they were talking, Chris was -- he has been very dismissive of those options. He was like, no, I'm fine. He was like, no, no, no. And even to the point where I said -- I said, Rock, let him -- let him finish.

The LAPD officers finish laying out what his options were and they said, you know, would you like us to take any action and he said, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Now, Packer did say that Will Smith reached out the day after and apologized for essentially overshadowing his success. Unfortunately, many others also feel like their success was overshadowed. Erica.

HILL: Yes. Camila Bernal with the latest for us. Appreciate it. Thank you. Our next hour starts right now.