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Zelenskyy Reacts To Horror From Bucha; Ukrainian Deputy PM: Russians Holding 11 Mayors Captive, One Killed; Interview With Rep. John Garamendi (D-Ca); Manhunt Underway After Mass Shooting In Downtown Sacramento; Hundreds Of Ukrainians Waiting In Mexico For Asylum In U.S.; Fuel Depot On Fire After Russian Strike In Odessa; Senate Judiciary Committee To Vote Tomorrow On KBJ Nomination. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired April 03, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:50]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin with this breaking news. Shocking new images which show the brutality of what is happening in Ukraine. As Russian troops withdraw from the town of Bucha near Kyiv, the pictures of what is left behind are disturbing and extremely graphic.

We do want to warn you about what you're about to see. But we find it's important for you to see them to understand the gravity of what is happening within that country.

These new images in to CNN showing bodies of at least 20 civilian men lying on a street in Bucha. Some of the men executed with their hands tied behind their backs.

And CNN is now able to confirm the existence of a mass grave there as well. CNN teams saw at least a dozen bodies in body bags piled inside the grave. Some were partially covered. The mayor of Bucha saying there could be up to 300 victims buried at that site. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying today, Russia's actions are genocide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): According to the law and what they have done -- and I want to apologize to those people who are watching us now -- but for some things that they have done, when we find people with -- with hands tied behind their back and decapitated, such things I don't understand. I don't comprehend.

The kids who were killed and tortured. So it wasn't enough just to kill for those criminals. Maybe they wanted to take gold or washing machines and they were killing, but they were also torturing them as they did this. And your question is absolutely fair, but I don't have the answer. I don't know what law or what imprisonment term would be adequate for this.

As the father of two children and as a president, I think that these people, if they are put behind the bars, this is one too little for what they have done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this genocide?

ZELENSKYY: Indeed, this is genocide. The elimination of the whole nation and the people. We are the citizens of Ukraine. We have more than 100 nationalities. This is about the destruction and extermination of all these nationalities.

We are the citizens of Ukraine. And we don't want to be subdued to the policy of Russian Federation. This is the reason we're being destroyed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's go to CNN's Fred Pleitgen who was in Bucha today. You saw this mass grave firsthand. Tell me about your other impressions.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Fredricka.

Well, first of all, Bucha is indeed completely destroyed. There's very few buildings that are still intact. Like many other places around the northwest of Kyiv where, of course, the Russian forces held large parts of that area. But there was also pretty heavy fighting as well.

And we were going through Bucha, accompanied by the Ukrainian National Police. And they then took us to a church. And it was on the compound of that church we walked around to the back and that's where we saw this mass grave.

Now on the part of the mass grave that we were at, which was still uncovered, there were about a dozen bodies, maybe a few more. Most of them were in plastic bags. You can see here. Unfortunately some of the limbs were still sort of out in the open of some of these bodies.

However, the national police that we were with, they said that there were many, many more. They said between 150 and 200 possibly. You've said the mayor of Bucha has said around 300 possibly.

[14:04:59]

PLEITGEN: Any of those numbers are certainly very much possible because the people there had told us that they started filling this mass grave essentially when the Russians moved into that area and occupied that area simply because there were so many civilian casualties under that Russian occupation that took place. So that mass grave has been filling up. More and more people have been buried there. And I can tell you, it was an extremely sad sight for us to be there.

There was a gentleman there who was with a neighbor and a family member who just broke down in tears and was crying. He was looking for his younger brother and was convinced the younger brother was now in the mass grave and that all the hopes he had had of finding his younger brother alive, those were all obviously then crushed at that moment and that person was just absolutely beside himself.

So it's a very, very sad scene there in Bucha and unfortunately Fredricka, one that we've seen play out in other places to the northwest of Kyiv as well. We visited several other locations where we unfortunately saw similar things. Absolute destruction and in some places still bodies on the street as well, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And so that means one can only guess that this scene is being replicated many times over. The difference is, access.

You know, you and other crews are still unable to get to other cities that really may be replicas of this horrific scene.

PLEITGEN: Yes, absolutely. It certainly is something that could very well be the case. Look, I have now been in three or four districts to the northwest of Kyiv and to the west of Kyiv after Russian forces pulled out of this -- of those districts.

There was one near the main highway that goes to the west where there also we found cars, some of which had been shot at with dead bodies in front of those. In some cases badly burned dead bodies.

There was another district that we were in today called (INAUDIBLE). It's not a district, it's actually a town called Borodyanka (ph) where we also saw massive destruction there.

And a family there actually invited us into their house and said they had Russian soldiers were staying there. And they showed us that the whole place had been ransacked. There were alcohol bottles standing around there. Entire clothes have been thrown on the floor.

But then they also took us into their backyard, Fredricka and they showed us there was a dead body laying in the backyard. A dead man with his hands tied behind his back. His feet tied together and severe bruises on his legs.

And we also found by that dead body was a shell casing of a gun next to the head of that dead body. Obviously showing that that person had been essentially executed.

So those are the things that we're seeing on the outskirts of Kyiv and it truly is incredible to see some of this, that some of this would happen in such a short period of time. Of course, the Russians have withdrawn from many of those places now, leaving behind a lot of their destroyed tanks.

That's the other thing that we're seeing a lot. The Russians definitely took a lot more losses than they've been letting on, Fredricka. WHITFIELD: Wow. All right. Each day getting more shocking than the

next.

Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much, sadly for bringing us those images but again, important for people to see the gravity of what's taking place.

So we're also getting new reports that Russian forces are holding nearly a dozen Ukrainian mayors captive and have killed one of them. And earlier we're learning of more strikes in Mykolaiv.

That's where CNN's Ben Wedeman is, in the southern portion of Ukraine. Ben, what are you learning?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard just after noon local time loud, multiple explosions and saw smoke rising from essentially the city -- the center of the city. What it was, was one of a multiple -- a multitude of Russian missile strikes on Mykolaiv.

What we saw on the scene was that clearly the Russians are using cluster munitions, small explosives covering a large area. It was a residential neighborhood. They were apartment buildings where people are living. Now fortunately, it's a cold and rather drizzly Sunday so there weren't a lot of people out on the street.

But according to a statement put out by the regional governor, at least one person was killed, more than a dozen wounded in these multiple strikes. Now this governor also put out a video statement of himself walking down the street saying that the Russians are trying, and he said, failing to spread panic in the city at a time when many Mykolaiv residents are returning to their homes after having fled when the fighting was just on the outskirts of this city.

Now this comes at a time when Ukraine's deputy prime minister is saying that Russian forces have detained 11 Ukrainian mayors and executed one in areas that are under Russian control.

[14:09:59]

WEDEMAN: Now we cannot independently verify these claims, but she said that they would -- that the Ukrainian government would alert the International Committee of the Red Cross, the United Nations and other international organizations to their captivity.

And certainly, the accounts we're hearing from people who have managed to flee the Russian occupied territories is that there's sort of a reign of madness going on inside.

There's no attempt to set up a normal civil administration. Russian soldiers are breaking into stores, looting them, breaking into private houses, generally abusing people.

And of course, as we heard from Fred, there's probably much worse going on in those areas occupied by the Russians, Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Horrible. All right. Ben Wedeman, appreciate it.

The European Union is vowing fresh sanctions against Russia over what it calls a massacre in Bucha. And the secretary-general of the United Nations had this to say on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: It is a brutality against civilians we haven't seen in Europe for decades. And it's horrific and it's absolutely unacceptable that civilians are targeted and killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House. Arlette, what is being discussed and thought about, entertained at the White House?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, the Biden administration today is expressing shock over these scenes coming out of Bucha with Secretary of State Antony Blinken really summarizing that it's a punch in the gut to see these scenes playing out.

Now one thing that both Blinken and NATO Secretary-General Stoltenberg refrained from doing was calling this a genocide, even as the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy went forward today and said that he does believe that what is happening on the ground there does amount to genocide.

But the State Department today is insisting that Russia must and will be held accountable for its brutality in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: You can't help but see these images as a punch to the gut. There needs to be accountability for it. But I think the most important thing is we can't become numb to this. We can't normalize this.

NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Until and unless the Kremlin deescalates, until and unless the violence diminishes, and until and unless these kinds of atrocities come to an end.

So I suspect you will very soon see additional pressure applied.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now Blinken also said that the U.S. and the State Department are gathering and documenting these possible war crimes to help with any investigation into war crimes. Of course, the U.S. last month did say that they believe that this Russian aggression that's been playing out in Ukraine does amount to war crimes, but there is that formal process, as the International Criminal Court is conducting an investigation into war crimes.

The next question is whether the administration might also pursue any additional sanctions after what they are seeing coming out of Ukraine over the course of this weekend. Of course, they have said that there are -- there is always the possibility of other sanctions on the table as they continue to see this Russian aggression play out. But these scenes coming out of Bucha over the course of the past two days are really horrifying.

And it will be interesting to watch whether the administration will react specifically and take any additional measures against Russia due to these actions, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Arlette Saenz at the White House, thank you so much for that.

All right. Let's bring in Congressman John Garamendi. He's a Democrat from California and a member of the House Armed Services Committee. Good to see you, Congressman.

So President Zelenskyy is calling this a genocide. Do you agree?

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Oh, absolutely. There's absolutely no doubt it's a genocide. It's a war crime.

The butcher of Bucha is now Putin. This man has got to go. He is destroying Ukraine. He's killing people left and right. And he is personally responsible.

It's not just the soldiers in the field. Obviously, they're totally out of control. There's no semblance of order among the soldiers. And also they're not doing very well at all in the war.

However, this is Putin's war. And the butcher of Bucha is now Putin. And he's going to pay for this, one way or the other. If those images could get to the Russian people, they would revolt. It is revolting. It is nauseating. It is horrible to see it.

And unfortunately, the Russian people do not see it. They are getting a different message. We have got to break through. Whatever the American government can do, and it can do a lot, it needs to make sure that the Russian people spread throughout that vast country understand what their President Putin is doing to the people of Ukraine.

[14:14:56]

WHITFIELD: So what more -- I think universally people agree, this is outrageous. So what more can the international community do? What more will it do, including the U.S.?

I mean to hear the State Department say that more pressure needs to be applied, but sanctions thus far, it doesn't seem to be stopping Putin.

So what more can the U.S., what more can the international community do and should do?

GARAMENDI: Well, certainly more sanctions, more people. The rest of the banks in Russia should be eliminated from the international financial system. All of that should be done. We should take those steps immediately. Also, the president a couple of days ago announced another $300 million of equipment flowing into Ukraine. I do know that in some of the reports, the U.S. military cargo planes have made over -- well over 200 deliveries into the eastern NATO countries, and those deliveries are military weapons of all kinds. So that's flowing in.

I do think that there's more that we need to do in the Odessa area. There's a probability of an invasion from the Black Sea. There are certain kinds of equipment that should be flowing into Odessa to keep those ships further out at sea and not allow them to get into the port.

All of those things need to be done. And we need to continue to rally international support, which the president has done a great job on, together with the secretary of state. Rally the international community and make sure that countries such as India and others that are standing on the sidelines of this, that they're not allowed to do that. That they also must take part in pushing back on Putin.

WHITFIELD: So Ukrainian President Zelenskyy has, overall now, addressed 17 parliaments. The European Council, NATO and the G-7. And you yourself were on a video call with him just last month.

GARAMENDI: Yes.

WHITFIELD: He is clearly, as that country's leader, won everyone's heart, you know, around the globe. And when you mentioned, you know, these deliveries, thus far it seems like that is all that this country is getting is deliveries. But it's not seemingly putting them in a position of saving any more lives.

So what more should Ukraine expect to get while it's won over everyone's hearts? It seems to just stop there.

GARAMENDI: Well, no, I think that's incorrect. The deliveries are of the weapons that have stalled the Russian advance. The deliveries are the javelins, the stinger missiles, the mortars. There's also some more sophisticated equipment arriving that will be able to determine where the incoming artillery is going and then counter battery those artilleries.

Those things are in place. And that equipment was what the extraordinarily successful and competent Ukraine military has been able to use to put those tanks out of commission. The ones that you see along the side of the road. Those were taken out principally by American Javelin missiles. Very, very successfully. And the stinger missiles are keeping the --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: So while it has stalled, it has helped stall the operations, but do you believe all of these deliveries are going to help Ukraine be able to end this operation without further horrific scenes, anguish, killings, torture?

GARAMENDI: Well, what we're seeing is the Russian military unable to achieve its objectives. And then in frustration, probably anger, they are lashing out at civilians.

Clearly the Russian armies have been pushed back away from Kyiv and, quite possibly, out of that entire region. They're probably reassembling to go after the eastern Donbas area and quite possibly other cities along the Black Sea.

And so we will see the Ukraine military responding to that. The good news for the Ukrainians is they have the short inside operation. They don't have to travel as far to these new areas that are likely to become the next conflict zones.

But the withdrawal of the Russian military from Kyiv has exhibited these horrendous criminal activities by the Russian military. And it seems to -- it is absolutely true that Putin has allowed his troops to be totally out of control. And that's what makes him a war criminal.

The American government will continue to flow in supplies. The U.S. Congress will continue to authorize more and more aid.

[14:19:51]

GARAMENDI: Already $13 billion, most recently two weeks ago. That money is now being drawn down by the president as we are going into American arsenals in Europe as well as the United States and bringing equipment in.

And we're not alone. Here's the important thing. We're not alone. Other countries, NATO particularly, are also moving in.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Ok. I understand. You are considering some of that Russian retreat or withdrawal as somewhat hopeful, but you know, game certainly not over.

I do want to take a turn, if I could, Congressman. I do want to ask you about the mass shooting that took place in downtown Sacramento earlier today. What are you learning is the latest in the ongoing manhunt and the investigation?

GARAMENDI: Well, I've been watching the local news all morning long, and this is another horrible incident. We have too many guns on the street. Nightclubs, you go to a nightclub now. You've got to be aware that whomever may be next to you has a weapon.

And if there's any altercations, more than willing to use it. This is totally out of control. And it is, obviously, deadly. Six dead. Another nine or ten wounded. And this is not the first such incident here in Sacramento or in the communities in California. Obviously, across the nation, the same thing is playing out.

At some point, the American people are going to say, no, the guns are not making us safer. The guns are killing. People have those guns and they are using them. They're using them, what used to be just a fisticuff is now a gun battle.

WHITFIELD: Congressman John Garamendi, thank you for your time. Appreciate your time. I know it's a very busy day. Very busy period in this country and abroad. Thank you.

GARAMENDI: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, still ahead, a growing number of Ukrainian refugees are seeking asylum in the U.S. many now waiting at Mexico's border. We'll discuss the administration's plans straight ahead.

Plus, we'll talk more about the manhunt under way in California after more than a dozen people were shot in downtown Sacramento. Six of them killed.

[14:22:04]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A manhunt is under way after a mass shooting in downtown Sacramento early this morning. Six people were killed and ten more injured.

Governor Gavin Newsom issued a statement saying, in part, we once again mourn the lives lost and for those injured in yet another horrendous act of gun violence.

CNN's Josh Campbell joining me live with more details on this. Josh, any more detail on even the whereabouts of the gunman they continue to look for? A description? Anything?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred, at this point, authorities don't know whether they are dealing with one or multiple suspects. And they have not yet released a suspected motive in the shooting. What we do know is that a manhunt is under way after this deadly night in the California capital.

Authorities say shots rang out in downtown Sacramento just around 2:00 a.m. This was two blocks from the state capitol building in an area with several restaurants and bars. Six people have been confirmed dead. At least ten injured.

The city's police chief spoke about the incident this morning.

CHIEF KATHERINE LESTER, SACRAMENTO POLICE DEPARTMENT: We had officers in the area that heard shots fired. And responded to the area of 10th and K. They found a very large crowd here. And they also found that we had a number of people that were shot in the area.

Those officers, we know, rendered aid to our victims and called for additional assistance. Right now, we do not have a suspect in custody on this, and we're asking for the public's help. If anyone saw anything, has video or can provide any information to the police department, we are asking for their assistance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now there is video circulating on social media showing a physical altercation involving a group of people just as shots ring out. That video has not been confirmed by CNN. However, the Sacramento police said a short time ago that they are aware of it. They are asking for anyone who has additional video to contact authorities.

Sacramento police have assigned numerous officers to help with this investigation, Fred, actually calling in resources from neighboring agencies to help respond to police calls as their investigation continues.

Again, a very deadly night. Yet another mass shooting in the United States. Six dead, ten injured. The shooter still at large, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Very sad. Josh Campbell, thank you so much.

All right. Coming up, after making the treacherous journey out of Ukraine, hundreds of refugees are waiting at the U.S./Mexico border to seek asylum in the U.S.

[14:28:30]

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[14:32:57]

WHITFIELD: A growing number of Ukrainians fleeing Russia's invasion have arrived at the Mexican border city of Tijuana to seek asylum in the U.S. So far, about 1,500 Ukrainian refugees have arrived in that city and officials say more are expected to come. The White House announced a plan to welcome as many as 100,000 Ukrainian refugees into the U.S.

For more now, let's bring in CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.

Priscilla, good to see you.

So, what more can you tell us about what's going on at the border and what kind of processing is taking place at all.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, volunteers on the ground tell us that the number of Ukrainians in the city of Tijuana, a city right on the California/Mexico border, has quadrupled in the last few days. An increasing number of people who are fleeing the war in Ukraine have arrived there and are putting their names on a list and then getting a number. Then they are going to wait until they can go to the port of entry and seek asylum and enter the United States.

Now the wait, according to some volunteers, can be more than 24 hours. Some Ukrainians are having to stay at local hotels until their number is called. And all of this is happening against the backdrop of the United States committing to accept up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees.

Now there are a number of legal pathways the administration is looking at for Ukrainians to come to the United States. And that is through the U.S. refugee admissions program, through a parole, which is a faster way of getting entry into the United States, as well as through other visas and ways to really focus on reunifying families.

I've spoken to Ukrainian Americans here in the United States who are trying to find ways for their Ukrainian family members to join them in the U.S. but the administration has not yet provided details on how these different programs may work, so these Ukrainians can arrive.

And so, there are currently just very limited pathways for Ukrainians to come to the United States. Some are opting to go to the U.S./Mexico border in hopes of getting faster entry into the United States, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much for that. We'll check back with you.

And for more information about how you can help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, go to CNN.com/impact.

[14:35:02]

All right. Pope Francis shared a powerful message this morning during his visit to Malta, urging the faithful to pray for martyred Ukraine. He also condemned Russia's sacrilegious war, his words. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): Let us now pray to her for peace, as we think of the humanitarian tragedy in martyred Ukraine, still under the bombings in a sacrilegious war. May we be tireless in praying and in offering assistance to those who suffer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And the pope told reporters Saturday that a visit to Kyiv, quoting now, is on the table.

We'll be right back.

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[14:40:21]

WHITFIELD: Welcome back.

The Russian military is now confirming it was responsible for a strike on a fuel facility this morning in Ukraine's key port city of Odessa.

CNN's Ed Lavandera arrived on the scene of that attack shortly after the missiles hit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just before sunrise, multiple air strikes struck a fuel storage facility here in the city of Odessa, a key port city on the southern coast along the Black Sea. This is the most significant attack Odessa has seen since the war in Ukraine started.

Just after the attack, we were able to make our way to the scene. It's mostly an industrial area of the city, but there are a number of apartment buildings and homes on a hill overlooking the fuel storage facility. We spoke with several residents in that area who described the terrifying moments of the blast. Windows being shattered, people scrambling to take cover as the fires and explosions continued to rage there just several hundred yards away from where they were standing. So, terrifying moments here this morning.

What is also interesting and the residents we spoke to, three different people tell us that they had been hearing reconnaissance drones flying over the area for days and many had the belief that something bad was about to happen because of that. Russian military officials say they fired high-precision missiles at these targets from land and sea operations. They were targeting this fuel facility because it's providing fuel to Ukrainian forces.

Ukrainian military officials say that there were no injuries at the blast site, but throughout most of the day, even hours and hours after the blast happened, firefighters at that scene are still continuing to fight the blaze.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Odessa, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Earlier, NATO secretary-general told CNN that Vladimir Putin's pledge to withdraw some of his troops is just masking his true intentions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: What we see is not a real withdrawal. We see that Russia is repositioning its troops, and they are taking some of them back to rearm them, to reinforce them and resupply them. But we should not in a way be too optimistic because the attacks will continue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's bring in now, Juliette Kayyem, she's a CNN national security analyst. Former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security and the author of this new book "The Devil Never Sleeps: Learning to Live in the Age of Disasters."

Juliette, so good to see you.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. So war and conflict is unpredictable, but now in this one, we're talking about the leader of Russia, Putin, so unbelievably disingenuous and unpredictable. He says one thing, does another.

I mean, so talk to us about the -- why the dynamics here are so particularly difficult because, you know, negotiations, he's at the table, but nobody believes anything that he's saying or what his intentions are.

KAYYEM: Right. It's a variation of the trust and verify. It's do not trust, nothing to verify at this stage. I think we have to simply go by what the reporting is on the ground which is this is a leader and an army that is -- that has not changed and has actually gotten more aggressive against civilian populations.

And they may be doing that just to give themselves time to regroup because of the logistics challenges that we've been talking about over the last couple of weeks in terms of food, water, medical supplies. Or it may be that as part of Putin's narrative, he needs an exit strategy which is essentially, you know, sort of burn the place down as he exits. So we just don't know yet.

But there's really nothing to trust at this stage except for to continue to arm the Ukrainians and support the Ukrainians in the fight against the Russians.

WHITFIELD: Do you feel that's going to be enough to pour more resources into Ukraine to help them, you know, fortify their strategy, their response when Russia clearly is regrouping, perhaps repositioning itself, but still in country?

KAYYEM: Right. So this is the challenge -- we don't want to give Putin what he wants which is essentially western engagement in the war.

[14:45:02]

And so we simply honestly can't know right now. The NATO and the United States continue to arm the Ukrainians in the ways they know best.

There's obviously intelligence support. We certainly know that. It's helping the Ukrainians fight. But we don't -- the challenge for the West is simply not responding to what Putin wants, which is we see, unfortunately, these human rights abuses and then we get engagement that we cannot get out of without a full-fledged war.

So, It's horrible. I'm not excusing it. It's just day -- it's essentially we're a couple hours from these discoveries and for us to wholesale change our agenda seems premature.

WHITFIELD: So, the Kremlin says that, you know, a meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy is theoretically possible, but only after, and I'm quoting now, a prepared -- a document is prepared.

Are negotiations simply futile and at this point, the international community needs to be getting a more cohesive plan together on how to save, rescue, Ukraine because negotiations with Russia, especially under these kind of conditions, it just doesn't seem feasible or logical?

KAYYEM: Well, so this is the theory of the book is essentially you don't want to be in a position which you only have one lane toward success. So what you want to see in any war or any exit strategy is multiple lanes. So I would never say at this stage, cut off a potential lane for peace for Ukraine.

Remember, this is the goal now. The goal is not, we hate Putin, we hate the Russian army. The goal is to help Ukraine survive. And the larger goal may come later.

And so, I would never, in terms of an exit strategy, in terms of a crisis, I would never put myself in a position where you are telling another nation, don't give yourself a potential out. And honestly, Zelenskyy's -- it's Zelenskyy's choice in terms of what his next plan is.

WHITFIELD: All right. Juliette Kayyem, hopefully that's an interesting doorbell and not an alarm. We can find you in ominous places.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYYEM: It's testing my calmness. Thanks so much. See you later.

WHITFIELD: OK. Juliette Kayyem, stay safe. Thank you so much.

All right, a critical vote on Capitol Hill tomorrow to advance the confirmation of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to the U.S. Supreme Court. We're live on the Hill, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:52:03]

WHITFIELD: The Senate Judiciary Committee takes its first step in a history-making move tomorrow to confirm President Biden's nominee for the U.S. Supreme Court, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. She's the first Black woman to be nominated to the highest court in the land.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux joining us from Capitol Hill.

Suzanne, this vote is expected to actually be bipartisan by the narrowest of margins, however, right?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just, just a tiny bit here, Fred. We're looking at the divisions very much along partisan lines.

But you are absolutely right. I mean, this is going to be history in the making. They really have to let the process play out here in Congress. The formalities and allow each of these lawmakers to give them a chance. A last chance to tell their position, give their position about the judge.

And it will very likely, as we saw it play out on partisan lines here, but it's going to likely be over by the end of the week. Look at this calendar. We're talking about Monday when the Senate judiciary committee members actually meet opinion they'll have a chance to give some floor speeches. It will be unlimited in time. So, we're not sure how long that will last.

They will vote it out of committee but we expect it's going to be a stalemate, 11 Republicans, 11 Democrats. And it's going to be deadlocked here. And then that is the process -- how do you get it out of the committee to the full Senate? Well, the full Senate, at this point, will actually have a nomination

to the full Senate floor. They'll have to actually have a motion to discharge it out of the committee. That will take four hours of debate regarding the senators. We expect by Tuesday, Senator Chuck Schumer, the majority leader, is going to actually put forward a procedural motion to end this filibuster from the Republicans. Essentially moving it one step closer to the final process, Fred.

But we expect that midweek, we will start to hear some of the statements from lawmakers, both positive and negative.

This is just a sampling of what we heard earlier today from Senator Roy Blunt, the Republicans, and how they are seeing this nomination.

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SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): I think she's certainly going to be confirmed. I think it will be a high point for the country to see her go on the court and take her unique perspective to the court, but I don't think she's the kind of judge that will really do the kind of work that I think needs to be done by the court. And I won't be supporting her, but I'll be joining others in understanding the importance of this moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So what's on the calendar for the second half? Wednesday, more floor speeches but Thursday is when you're going to see the break of the filibuster. The vote there is expected to break the filibuster. Just need a simple majority. They already have the 50 Democrats they expect and those who caucus with the Democrats, as well as one Republican senator, Senator Susan Collins, so that will happen.

And then that will allow the final vote, Fred, to happen on Friday for her confirmation, clearing the way for history to be made.

[14:55:01]

That is expected to happen, Fred, possibly by the end of the week. And, yes, along partisan lines.

WHITFIELD: All right. Potentially historic week. All right. Thank you so much, Suzanne Malveaux.

All right. Still ahead, horrific new images painting a stark picture of the brutality of what is happening in Ukraine. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is calling it genocide. We're on the ground in Ukraine with the latest, next.

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