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U.S. Official: U.S. Believes "It Will Be Able To Identify The Russian Units" That Have Carried Out The Bucha Atrocities; U.S., G7, EU Hit Russia With New Sanctions In Responses To Bucha Atrocities. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 06, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

A U.S. official tells CNN the United States will be able to identify the Russian units that carried out the atrocities in Bucha. Analysts are looking at possible signs that more than one group of Russian fighters was in the Ukrainian town when the brutalities happened.

Now, today, the worldwide outcry to hold Russian President Putin accountable intensified. The U.S. and Europe issued a new package of sanctions against Putin's daughters, his nation's financial institutions and more.

Plus, for the first time since Russia invaded, federal prosecutors indicted a Russian oligarch for sanctions violations. The U.S. calls the latest round of actions the most impactful, coordinated and wide- ranging economic restrictions in history.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's nothing less happening than major war crimes. Responsible nations have to come together to hold these perpetrators accountable and together with our allies and partners, we're going to keep raising economic costs and ratcheting up the pain for Putin and further increase Russia's economic isolation.

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CAMEROTA: Pope Francis is joining in the global outcry. During the Vatican service, he held up this flag from what he called the martyred city of Bucha. Then he kissed it. He was surrounded by Ukrainian children seeking refuge in Italy.

In the latest development on the fighting, the U.S. believes Russian forces have completely withdrawn from the area around Kyiv and to the north, Chernihiv. Analysts do not detect any Russian troops they say in or around both cities. But the U.S. now warns that Putin's war on Ukraine could be entering a new protracted phase in the east of the country. There is heavy fighting in the Luhansk and Donetsk areas, with local leaders calling for evacuations.

BLACKWELL: One leader in the region reported heavy shelling in residential areas today and said Russian forces hit surrounding towns 81 times the previous night.

CAMEROTA: CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen is in Kyiv for us.

So, Fred, we're hearing of a new city that Russian plans to target. What do you know?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Alisyn.

Yeah, that's the city of the town of Slovyansk, east of the country. And you guys are absolutely right, it's not just the U.S. but also the Ukrainians saying that they believe that the Russians are very much shifting their focus away from the area where I am right now towards the east of the country simply because they have been beaten back here in the Kyiv region.

I want our viewers because we have the map out there. It's a great map our guys have made so the look at the two towns, Izyum and Slovyansk. They are way in the east of the country. And essentially, right now, there's a big battle going on for that place, Izyum, and the Ukrainians believe and the U.S. believes as well the Russians are trying to push down towards that town of Slovyansk, and with that trying to encircle the Ukrainian forces that are stationed there and that are fighting there.

It's unclear in whose control that town Izyum is at the moment. Whether or not the Russians have taken that over or whether the Ukrainians are still holding. But Western observers believe that if the Ukrainians can manage to hold the town of Slovyansk and beat the Russians back there, the Russians will have a really hard time taking back the entire Donbas region which seems to their main war aim.

Of course, the aim seems to have shifted somewhat. At the beginning it seems as though Kyiv was their main goal, their main priority. Then they got beaten back here by Ukrainian forces in Kyiv and in Chernihiv as well. Now seems to be focusing on the east of the country, some new units coming there as well.

And that town of Slovyansk, very close to that is a place called Kharkiv, and the governor of Kharkiv has said there were 27 strikes in that region overnight. So, you can see things heating up in that area, even though the main offense that the Russians hasn't seen to have began yet, but certainly seems what they're gearing up for, guys.

BLACKWELL: Fred, a senior U.S. defense official said that Russians have completely withdrawn from the areas near Kyiv and Chernihiv, as we've said, but officials warn that it's too early to say that Vladimir Putin has abandoned the goal of capturing the capital. What do we know about preps around the capital potentially if they return?

PLEITGEN: Yeah, and it's about prepping but it's also about not letting down their guard. That's what we are seeing here in Kyiv. And actually, interestingly, I was able to speak to the mayor of the town of Chernihiv, which is, of course, up there in the north of the country.

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And he also told me, he doesn't believe that the Russian forces are gone for good. He said they still hear Russian war planes over ahead. Those might be on the Belarusian side of the border because Chernihiv is very close to Belarus. But they're certainly not letting down their guard either.

That place Chernihiv has just made for an extended period of time surrounded by Russian forces, that is no longer the case and the mayor of that town also believes that there are no Russian forces currently on the territory of Ukraine, but they certainly that the Russians could come back, certainly not today or tomorrow, but they could come back in a later date, guys.

CAMEROTA: OK. Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much for all of your reporting from the ground for us.

CNN's Jake Tapper is in the western city of Lviv and there's been more strikes and explosions there outside of Lviv.

So, Jake, what do we know?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, apparently overnight, Russians, as they announced, were targeting, they say they were targeting fuel depots and supply lines and the Ukrainians say that at least in the case of this province we're in right now, the Lviv province, they were targeting civil infrastructure. It was an area of this province called Radekhiv, about an hour northeast of where I'm sitting and the Ukrainians say that they were able to intercept the missiles on their way.

Interestingly, we talked about this before. There are constant air raid sirens all over this country, including here in Lviv, but there was not one for this. I know if it was an oversight or because they shot down the Russian missile, they claimed, so they didn't feel the need, although, apparently, what landed did cause a fire that Ukrainian officials were able to put out. That's what happened and, thankfully, there were no injuries reported.

BLACKWELL: Jake, you attended the funeral for three Ukrainian soldiers. Tell us about that.

TAPPER: It's fascinating for a number of reasons, Victor and Alisyn. First of all, yes, we went to the funeral of three soldiers and the burial of two of them, two of them. They were 33 and 43. Individuals that just signed up for the military after the invasion began. And they were killed in the eastern part of the country. Ukrainian officials won't tell us more about how they died or how many individuals in the Ukrainian armed forces have been killed.

It was a very emotional ceremony and tribute, as one might expect. Very similar to what we see in the United States in a lot of ways. There was the honor guard firing something like three volleys of salute. There was the military band, of a sort, with the drum and horn of some sort. Not playing "Taps" but playing a mournful song.

And they were buried immediately. One of things that's tragic about this all is because of this new war at the main cemetery here, they have had to go to the land right next door which is part of the cemetery grounds but it was, until today, a World War II memorial but now they have to -- they will use it to bury the new dead because they are expecting an influx of KIA soldiers. So, today, we saw them have to breakthrough ground because of this influx of killed soldiers.

BLACKWELL: All right. Jake Tapper in Lviv for us, thank you, Jake.

CAMEROTA: Let's discuss this with CNN military analyst and retired army lieutenant general, Mark Hertling.

General, let's just start with what Fred was reporting there, about Slovyansk. And so, if I can pull out the map, he was describing for us why this is such a pivotal town, pivotal city, that Russian forces want and Ukraine forces want to hold. With Russian forces moving and concentrating in the East, can you Ukraine forces hold that?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I certainly believe they can, Alisyn and Victor. This has been a great fight by Ukrainian forces.

Fred's reporting, first of all, has been masterful across the board, I have to compliment him. But when we take a look at these maps that we have been showing so often on CNN, we sometimes get mesmerized by the big red blotches or yellow blotches or the names of the towns. The reason the forces are going into these different locations are because they are objectives that provide some type of advantage to one course or the other.

Izyum has basically various road junctions in their town. They will conduct supplies and resupply operations along those roads. It's wanted both by Russia and Ukrainian forces because you can't continue the attack either to the north or south, east or west, if you don't control the roads, if you don't control the cities.

So, yes, Izyum and Slovyansk are critically important in that region, because they have been part of the fight and the Ukrainians have been holding those cities for several years during the fight in the Donbas. As we swift our attention to the east, it's going to be a very different kind of fight in what we've seen already, in places like Kyiv and Kharkiv. It is going to be a fight for intelligence, a fight for information, where troops are meeting. And then it's going to be attempts at what are called breakthrough operations.

And the Russians are desperately trying to control the roads in and out of that area, first of all, so Ukraine can't reinforce their lines, and secondly, so supplies are stopped between.

As we get into this battle of attrition that's going to occur in the east, it's going to be all about logistics and resupply, as well as the fighting. So, all of those things becoming increasingly important as we get almost a stalemate, a World War I type of trench warfare and attempts at breaking out and getting into each other's rare area.

BLACKWELL: And the U.S. has announced new weapon support for Ukraine for this new type of fights as you say. Yesterday, the 10 additional drones. Today, $100 million dollars worth of javelin, anti-tank missiles. I don't know the per on a Javelin missile, but Zelenskyy says his military needs 500 of those per day.

Is this enough? And also, is this is type of weaponry they need?

HERTLING: That's a lot of weapons, Victor, first of all, the answer to that question. But secondly, as we get into this new type of fight, as a former commander, what I did was an assessment of what I would have wanted if I was Ukraine force.

If I was a Ukrainian commander, the most important thing for me right now is intelligence. What am I getting in terms of where the Russians are moving? Where are they going to attack next and what kind of things are they planning on doing?

So, you get that from strategic intelligence, which a lot is being provided to Ukraine by people I won't talk about, but you also want the tactical intelligence. What's going on in the ground?

Then, in this kind of fight, you have to have speed of movement. Unlike the defensive operations that Ukraine was conducting around Kyiv and Kharkiv, where they went after forces that were attacking and they were on the defense, both sides are going to be moving. So, both of them are going to have their requirement for mobility, for conducting of active defense and counterattacks.

They're going to need a lot of air defense because Russia still has that, low, medium and high. So, things like Stinger missiles which we talk about so many times are going to be increasingly important. But there's other systems that the Ukrainians are going to need to hit any kind of high flying aircraft. They're going to need the special operators working both at the front line and in the rear of the Russian forces.

And I'm sure they're planning some of that right now if they haven't already conducted, they're doing it now. And then the last thing they're going to need is anti -- excuse me, air defense and counter artillery. Those are things that are going to be difficult. They have some of the stingers. They have -- the Ukrainians do have radars that can pick up where artillery is coming from, probably not enough and they also probably don't have enough of their own artillery.

So, it's going to be important to have those javelin missiles. Five hundred is a lot. I mean, that's an awful lot. That's a big chunk of what the U.S. manufactures every year. We manufacture about 6,000 a year. So, that's a pretty big chunk. Other forces need those too and NATO.

So, all of these things are competing for priorities. But the Ukrainian force I believe has a very good chance of stopping the Russians, because as we have seen already, the Russian force just ain't that good. They got training problems, command problems, logistic problems, maintenance problems, and resupply problems. All of those things are going to factor into this fight in the east.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, Ukrainians have proven to be formidable.

General Mark Hertling, thank you.

New warnings today that Putin's war in Ukraine could last for years. And officials say they see no indication that Putin's desire to control all of Ukraine has changed. We'll discuss with a Ukrainian member of parliament.

CAMEROTA: And back here, Oklahoma state house passes a near total ban on abortions. This is one of the harshest anti-abortion proposals in the entire country. We'll have details ahead.

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BLACKWELL: The U.S. has announced new round of sanctions against Russia, a direct response to the horrific images emerging across Ukraine. They include a ban on all new investment of Russia, increased sanctions on Russian banks and state-owned enterprises. Sanctions on family members of Russian foreign ministers and sanctions on Vladimir Putin's two adult daughters because the U.S. believes he's hiding some of his assets with them.

With me now is Ukrainian member of parliament, Yevheniya Kravchuk. Last week, she was with lawmakers on Capitol Hill in Washington. She's now back in Ukraine.

Thank you for being with me.

You were with these lawmakers last week. We now have these sanctions. Do you believe they are enough?

YEVHENIYA KRAVCHUK, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Thank you for having me. Well, I believe they are helpful but sorry to say but they're not enough. But because unless we see the total embargo on whatever Russia sells, and I mean gas and oil and coal.

And, of course, it's not only about the U.S. because it's about European Union to put this embargo. And about these banks, unless you put embargo on Gazprombank, the bank that sells, you know, and operate with gas and oil, you know, it never will be enough, because right now, it would not cover all the banks and there are huge loopholes in that.

And we're thankful for any sanctions that U.S. or other countries put on Putin and Kremlin and Russia, because, you know, it sort of strangles them. But they still, you know, get a lot of money by selling gas and oil. You know, only for months, they get 25, 26 euro, and all this money return as a bullet, you know, to civilians in Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Yeah. Yeah, we learn from the EU for each day of this invasion that Europe has paid Russia a billion euro for energy. As the sanctions have come, they're still on the other hand handing money to Russia.

KRAVCHUK: Exactly.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about the next phase of this war. We just had our military analyst on who said not only does Ukraine need the additional weapons that are coming from the west, but intelligence as well, what the Russian troops' next moves will be. Do you believe that Ukraine is prepared for next phase for the war focused on east?

KRAVCHUK: I mean, what your intelligence said about the start of this war, all of the western said that, you know, in two weeks you'll have a real war in Ukraine. The capital will fall. The big cities will fall.

So, the intelligence was good in sort of saying what Russia will do but not really good in sort of what would be the response of Ukrainian army and Ukrainian people in general. I mean, of course, we had already some weapons that were shipped from the United States as well and that helped us to stay and to counterattack. But you need to understand that, you know, Ukraine will not surrender. We'll fight, you know, until the end.

I did listen to this military expert and I really have him as a counterpart in Pentagon when I talked to people, because he clearly understands that we need both. We need air defense system and we need some weapons for offensive operation. Why offensive? I tell them, because right now, some of the territories are still occupied by Russia and those atrocities that you saw at the Bucha, at Irpin, at Borodianka, it's happening at the same moment in all the territories.

So, we need to kick Russians, you know, out of our country. And for that, we need more weapons. So, we're thankful -- you know, thank you for this $300 million weapon package that we're getting, you know? We get a lot of stuff. But it's still not enough to kick them out.

BLACKWELL: You mentioned on the atrocities, and focusing on Mariupol now. I mean, we are seeing some of what is there, but not everything. And now, we're learning from the Mariupol city council that Russians are bringing in crematoria to very likely burn the bodies of those who were killed. I mean, do you expect the world will never know the true scope of the atrocities there?

KRAVCHUK: That's what Russia wants to be, because they saw, you know, they failed to cover (ph) all these bodies in Kyiv region, that's why they are bringing this portable crematoriums just to, you know, to ruin not the lives of the Ukrainian people but also the memory about these Ukrainian people. And we will see a lot of the disinformation campaign from Russia,

trying, you know, to put all the atrocities to Ukrainian army which is totally ridiculous, but I have some evidence that they did bring some crematoriums to some of the part of the Kyiv region as well, because my husband is serving in police departments in Kyiv region. So, they are trying to cover all that they did. And probably the number of people that died from civil, you know, from civil society, the civilians --

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

KRAVCHUK: -- it's, you know, times more than what we saw from Kyiv region, because Mariupol is a big city. It was 400,000 of people before the invasion. A lot of people got out, but a lot of people are staying there.

BLACKWELL: There's still people trapped. Yeah, they're still trapped.

KRAVCHUK: And they are trapped in the basements. And in Kyiv region, remember these names, just remember this name, it's called Borodianka.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

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KRAVCHUK: Right now, it's even worse than Bucha, because people were trapped in the basements and only now the special rescue teams -- they are coming there and taking the bodies out. We'll have, you know, hundreds and hundreds of more dead people because of Russia.

BLACKWELL: All right. Yevheniya Kravchuk, member of the Ukrainian parliament, thank you so much for being with us.

KRAVCHUK: Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: Back here, gas prices remain high across the U.S. So, how some governors are taking matters into their own hands. That's ahead.

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