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Russia Doubles Down on Denials, Says Civilians Not Harmed; Zelenskyy Urges U.N. to Do More to Punish Russia; EU Debates How Far to Go with Sanctions on Russian Energy; CNN Speaks with Gravely Wounded Ukrainian Fighters. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired April 06, 2022 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Max Foster in London. We're following the breaking news coverage of the war in Ukraine just ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): They killed entire families, adults, and children, they tried to burn the bodies. Civilians were crushed by tanks while sitting in their cars in the middle of the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is unbearable brutality that Europe has not witnessed in many decades.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now is the time to match those words with actions.

ZELENSKYY (through translator): The U.N. security council exists and yet there is no security in the world for anyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

FOSTER: It's Wednesday, April 6th, 11 a.m. in Ukraine. In the coming hours, the U.S. is expected to announce new sanctions on Russia after the gruesome images from Bucha drew swift condemnation from world leaders. But despite that, Russia continues to step up attacks.

Leaders in the Kharkiv region right next to Russia's border say more than 50 Russian strikes hit the area in the past 24 hours killing at least 6 people. Meanwhile, new horrors are coming to light in the town of Borodianka on the outskirts of Kyiv. Like Bucha, it spent weeks under Russian occupation. It was just recently

taken back by Ukraine's Army. We'll have a report from the city in a little while.

And this near Bucha, a heartbreaking image, a little boy just 6-year- old stands in his backyard near his mother's grave. We just heard about another possible strike as well. This one in Lviv

region of western Ukraine. According to one local official, explosions will reportedly late on Tuesday. But there were no casualties. In a separate update from Air Force, they said two Russian missiles fired from Belarus were intercepted before hitting their target. Right now, it's unclear if those updates are about the same incident. This as we're learning about another strike that hit a fuel depot in central Ukraine. A local official says crews have been fighting the flames for hours. But there weren't any casualties.

Meanwhile Russia's ambassador to the U.N. is continuing to deny civilians have been deliberately harmed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VASSILY NEBENZIA, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N. (through translator): Once again without any evidence based on the presumption of guilt. The Russian army is being accused of some kind of evil deeds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN's Nic Robertson standing by live in Brussels for the latest on EU efforts to punish Russia. But first, we go to our Phil Black in Lviv, Ukraine. So, there were some incidents around the city?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, we've had recent statements from both the Russians and Ukrainians who say that there were missile strikes carried out here by Russian forces in the Lviv region -- here in the west of the country. According to the Russian statement though, it was just one of a number of strikes that have been carried out in the last 24 hours or so right across the breadth of Ukraine targeting a number of specific key pieces of Ukrainian infrastructure.

And it is part of an ongoing campaign by Russian forces using that clear superiority that it has with its long-range precision weapons to knock out things like fuel storage depots and repair stations and command posts and so forth. So, regardless of what happens on the ground, Russia is still continuing to show and use that it has that capability in order to try and degrade Ukraine's ability to fight back -- Max.

FOSTER: Phil, thank you. Nic in Brussels. We saw yesterday Zelenskyy speaking at the U.N. Security Council with a really damning indictment. Huge accusations against Russia but also basically saying the U.N. wasn't fit for the purpose right now and that now presumably puts more pressure on NATO and the EU to deliver over the next couple of days.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It does. Today the EU ambassadors will look at what the European Commission recommended yesterday which is a very likely fifth round of sanctions that just needs to be signed off on. There are some tweets. But the European Union saying it's going to ban coal imports from Russia. That's $4.3 billion worth of money that now will not go to Russia compared to all of the energy imports that the European Union gets from Russia -- that would be coal, gas and oil. Since the war began that's about $21 billion.

[04:05:02]

So, you can see coal is a small fraction of that.

The European Union also going to block Russian vessels and Russian- operated vessels from using EU ports. They're also putting a block on exports -- $10.9 billion worth of exports, high tech equipment, quantum computers, rare semiconductors. These sorts of high-tech items. So, the European Union is get itself ready to sign off on that.

The foreign ministers of the NATO nations will gather this evening and have more formal meetings tomorrow. That they are looking at what Ukraine needs now to step up its readiness for this next onslaught that's expected from Russia in the south and east of the country. What sort of weapons they will need to hold back a new perhaps more sustained and more tactically astute attack than the one that was witnessed around Kyiv where Ukraine was able to take advantage of Russia's lack of preparedness and lack of ability. So, NATO ministers very focused on that, what they can do going forward.

FOSTER: Phil, obviously international powers are offering a lot of support to Ukraine. But on the ground the horrors are still unfolding and there's a huge amount of frustration that they're not doing more. What sort of stories are you hearing from people there and the anger about lack of action internationally?

BLACK: Well, I think that was very much the message from President Zelenskyy yesterday, Max, when he spoke to the Security Council. He was blunt and uncompromising in calling for the world to act faster and harder. And he backed that up with that long list, long graphic list of grotesque crimes that have been committed against Ukrainian citizens. Crimes that we've only heard about over the last few days.

And as Zelenskyy points out, crimes that have only taken place in a relatively small patch of Ukrainian territory in an area where Russian forces have recently pulled back from. His believe is that it indicates -- and he made this argument, why he's calling for tougher action. He believes that it indicates what has been happening, what is happening behind Russian lines in other parts of the country. Take a listen to what Zelenskyy said to the U.N. yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKYY (through translator): Civilians were crushed by tanks while sitting in their cars in the middle of the road just for their pleasure. They cut off limbs, slashed their throats. Women were raped and killed in front of their children. Their tongues were pulled out only because the aggressor did not hear what they wanted to hear from them. This is not different from other terrorists such as ISIS, and here it is done by a member of United Nations Security Council.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK: So, while the recent outrage is very much focused on those horrible, personal, intimate violent crimes that Zelenskyy and others says have been committed in these areas by Russian forces. Ukrainians also very much motivated by the ongoing assault on this country, the fact that entire cities have been destroyed, like Borodianka. Another town to the west of Kyiv where we've seen images show that the fighting there has been so intense, the bombardment has been so intense. That there's very little of it left standing.

And of course, the siege in Mariupol continues with still an estimated 130,000 people caught there under blockade as Russia squeezes that city in order to try and break the defense there. And all of this as Ukraine prepares for still more intense fighting in the expectation that Russia is consolidating its forces there to try and launch new, large offensive operations to take the Donbas region and perhaps part of the Kharkiv region as well.

For all of these reasons Ukraine makes the point -- Zelenskyy makes the point -- that time is critical here. This pressure is not just important because of the individual horrors that have been unveiled in Bucha and the areas around Kyiv, but because of the going assault, the ongoing suffering that Ukrainian civilians are suffering across much of the country.

FOSTER: Phil Black in Lviv, and also Nic Robertson in Brussels. Thank you very much indeed.

So, is the West running out of ways to sanction Russia then? Liana Fix is a program director of the Korber Foundation, a German international affairs think tank. And she joins us from Berlin. Thanks for joining us. We heard from the head of NATO yesterday describing the challenges of getting involved, more involved militarily because it will set off a wider conflict. So, they are very much focusing on sanctions. Where do you expect those sanctions to appear next?

LIANA FIX, PROGRAM DIRECTOR FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, KORBER FOUNDATION: We will see the European Union going down the world energy sanctions.

[04:10:00]

And the important part of the EU proposal now to start with coal sanctions is not that coal sanctions are actually that significant but that it is a first step toward further energy sanctions on Russia. The problem is that especially in Germany the timelines that are now announced for a phasing out of Russian oil and gas don't overlap with the timelines that Ukraine has at times. Ukraine's timelines are weeks. Germany's timelines are phasing out oil and gas are now until 2024 for Russian gas. So, there we need to speed up, to make this entry into energy sanctions something which really puts pressure on Moscow and improves Ukraine's negotiation and fighting position.

FOSTER: But German politicians are also going to grapple with the idea that running out of fuel in the country would have a wide impact within Germany, for example, as the powerhouse of Europe. And that's why they're talking about these timelines and they just can't give Ukraine what they want in terms of timelines, can they?

FIX: Absolutely. I mean, there's a discussion going on what kind of economics scenario is actually realistic. So, there is this very dark scenario of Germany and Europe plunging into a recession with many people losing their jobs as a consequence of us getting into these sanctions. There are also gradual models that can be applied.

But then there's the other side to argue, well, our security interests or long-term security interests are more important than the short-term economic interests. So, we have to think creatively about how we can start getting into the process, even if it's not an immediate oil and gas embargo. And this is the debate that is taking place right now.

FOSTER: There's also talk about more sanctions on individuals. Lots of speculation that Putin's daughters could be sanctioned. We don't even have much confirmation about who they are, where they are, how many children in fact he does have. But would that be a powerful way of punishing Putin?

FIX: If punishing family members is something which has not been done in sanctioned regimes in the past, it will be the first-time family members are also included. We do see from reactions of other family members of Putin's elite that this is painful, it does hurt. But then it is not significant enough to really sort of equate that pressure that is needed to change the course of war. I think there's the two instruments that we have at hand -- that the EU has at hand -- are really -- even NATO has at hand are really sanctions and then weapon deliveries on the other side.

Secretary Stoltenberg has already announced that NATO will have to think about heavier weapons especially if we are now in the process of Russia regrouping and perhaps again attacking. And this is something which the big member states in the EU and NATO will have to consider how to move from light weapon deliveries to heavy weapon deliveries.

FOSTER: I had asked you what you thought of Zelenskyy's appearance in front of the U.N. Security Council yesterday. He had a pretty good point -- didn't he -- when he said it's inept currently because you got a veto from Russia. So, they're making decisions about a war and, you know, the perpetrator of that war is on the Council. So, it is effectively in this situation defunct, isn't it?

FIX: It is. And unfortunately, the U.N. has not played a major role in this war and this broader conflict at all so far. The same applies to the OSCE, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which was created for the aim to provide stability, including Russia, on the European continent. And this weakness of institutions that we see right now that it's really about nation states trying to make decisions and basically, also about NATO as a military alliance playing a role here. This is something which is disturbing because it means for the global governance for the future of how the world is governed and that if one major power becomes an incredibly destructive actor all of these institutions are paralyzed and almost not able to act decisively.

FOSTER: Liana Fix, in Berlin, thank you for your perspective on that.

FIX: Thank you. FOSTER: Still ahead this hour, war stories from some of the Ukraine's

most seriously wounded fighters and civilians. How the Russian invasion has changed their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've been given permission to film here provided we not name the hospital nor the city that we're in. And that's because the Ukrainian authorities fear that that information could lead to the Russian military directly targeting this hospital.

[04:15:00]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Bucha, Irpin, Mariupol, Mykolaiv, they are some of the places devastated by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. In Mykolaiv, local officials say Russian troops shelled a children's hospital on Monday. This security footage appears to show the moment the strike hit an ambulance parked outside. A team from Doctors Without Borders was on site at a nearby hospital and confirmed a strike there as well as at the children's hospital.

The United Nations reports nearly 1,500 civilians have been killed and more than 2,100 injured since Russia invaded Ukraine. But everyone understands those are drastic underestimates. CNN's Ivan Watson got permission to speak with some of the most gravely wounded Ukrainians. His report contains some graphic images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Shattered bodies in the intensive care unit of a Ukrainian hospital. Men and women from the Ukrainian military whose war wounds are so catastrophic, they need machines to breathe.

These deeply uncomfortable images, a glimpse of the physical toll this conflict is taking on both soldiers and civilians.

[04:20:00]

WATSON: The general director of the hospital says that after the first couple of days of this new war, at least 30 medical personnel resigned because of just the trauma of seeing these kinds of injuries up close.

WATSON(voice-over): A soldier named Yuri wants to communicate.

WATSON: He can't speak because he's still on a ventilator. He has regained consciousness after 11 days in a coma.

WATSON (voice-over): We won't identify him because doctors say his family does not yet know of his injuries.

WATSON: He has one child.

WATSON (voice-over): A daughter, he signals, 13 years old. Writing in my notebook, Yuri tells me he's been in the military for two years.

WATSON: The doctors say that he has a very good chance of surviving very serious shrapnel injuries to his body.

We were given permission to film here provided we not name the hospital nor the city that we're in, and that's because the Ukrainian authorities fear that that information could lead to the Russian military directly targeting this hospital.

WATSON (voice-over): In every room here, there's a patient whose bones and tissues have been ripped apart by flying metal.

WATSON: Vladimir (ph) is a volunteer. He signed up on the second day of this war in 2022.

WATSON (voice-over): This electrician turned volunteer comes from the Russian-speaking city of Kharkiv. Three days ago, a battle left him with two broken arms and wounds to the stomach.

WATSON (voice-over): Vladimir (ph) says his sister lives in Russia and he no longer communicates with her. I asked why. He said that she believes that the Ukrainians are enemies. And this is a family that is split apart by this war and different narratives of who started it.

Vladimir and the soldier with the fresh amputation lying next to him both insist that only force can stop Russia's war on this country.

Down the hall, I meet a young civilian, also horrifically wounded.

WATSON: Dima (ph) is 21-years-old. Where are you from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mariupol.

WATSON (voice-over): Dima (ph) is a recent university graduate, photographed here with his mother, Natasha. My mother died when this happened to me, he says, adding, I've cried enough already. I'm calmer now.

He says on the night of March 9th, he and his mother were hiding in the bathroom of a two-story house in the center of Mariupol when they heard war planes overhead bombing the neighborhood. Mother and son were hiding in the bathroom, shortly before 1:00 A.M., he says, when the bomb hit the house.

When he woke up, his legs were gone. He never saw his mother again. During my visit, a friend gives Dima (ph) a phone.

WATSON: This is the first time he's seeing the building where he and his mother were sheltering when they were hit. The red car here that is destroyed in front of the ruined building was his mother's car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of course, I get angry. I get sad. I get depressed at times but I can't lose my cool because those who did this to me, they probably want me to sit here crying and weeping. WATSON (voice-over): don't let the silence in these halls fool you. There is deep, seething anger in this hospital at the country that launched this unprovoked war on Ukraine.

Ivan Watson, CNN in eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: If you'd like to help people in Ukraine who might be in need of food, shelter, water, please go to CNN.com/impact. You'll find several ways that you can help there.

We're following breaking news out of Romania as well. A driver has reportedly crashed a car into the gate of the Russian embassy in Bucharest. Russian state media report the driver died in the incident. Traffic is being restricted on the street where the embassy's located and law enforcement is on the scene investigating. CNN will bring you more information when it becomes available.

Ahead on CNN, a grim economic warning. Deutsche Bank is the first major financial institution to forecast a recession in the United States. A look at what's driving this prediction next.

[04:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster. The U.S. has authorized an extra $100 million worth of arms for to send to Ukraine to help fight Russia's invasion. These include Javelin anti-armor systems, fire and forget that proved devastating to Russian tanks. The weapons will be pulled from existing Pentagon inventories to speed up delivery. Ukrainian president wants the U.N. to punish further Russia for invading his country.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Tuesday slammed the U.N. Security Council for not providing protection from Russia. And he described the atrocities against the civilians he saw during his visit to Bucha. He called Russian's actions no different from those of a terror group.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKYY (through translator): The U.N. Security Council exists and yet there is no security in the world for anyone. The only guilty party is one country, Russia, which discredits all of the institutions and blocks the global architecture for the sake of spreading lies and justifying the evil it commits.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Meanwhile, the U.K. says heavy fighting and Russian airstrikes have continued in Mariupol. British intelligence says in their latest update just a short while ago, the humanitarian crisis in the besieged Ukrainian city is worsening. But most of the remaining residents without heat, water or medicine. President Zelenskyy said Borodianka is another city where Russian

brutality against civilians is coming to light now that Putin's troops have retreated there. Borodianka is near the town of Bucha. Our CNN's Fred Pleitgen brought a firsthand look at the carnage and widespread destruction there. And a warning some of the images and details in this report are graphic and disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): In the war that Russia has unleashed against Ukraine, few places have suffered more than Borodianka. Occupied by Vladimir Putin's troops since late February, recently taken back by Ukraine's army

PLEITGEN: Borodianka was held by the Russians for a very long time. And just to give you an idea about the scale of the destruction, you had houses like these that were completely destroyed. But if we look over here, you can see even large residential buildings have been flattened. This entire building was flattened. It was connected with this one before but now there's absolutely nothing left of it.

[04:30:00]