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Oliver Carroll is Interviewed about Russia Discrediting Bucha Atrocities; Two Men Arrested for Impersonating DHS Agents; Ukrainians Seek Asylum in U.S.; House Power Outage Hits Puerto Rico. Aired 9:30- 10a ET

Aired April 07, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:32:13]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says that Russian attempts to discredit information regarding mass graves in Bucha will not work, and that the, quote, hundreds of corpses speak otherwise. I want to bring in someone who has been in Bucha, and Borodyanka (ph), and seen those horrors himself. Oliver Carroll is a correspondent for "The Economist."

Oliver, thank you so much for joining us. You are in Kyiv right now. I've been following your work for a long time there on the ground covering this war. And I'd like for you to give our viewers a sense of some of the things you've seen.

Let's start with a man who identified his friend, his friend, Andre Devornikov (ph), who was a driver. And you write, his only crime was not immediately accepting Ruskimer (ph), the Russian world, when he was fighting back tears when he identified his friend on the ground.

Give us -- give us more context behind what you saw.

OLIVER CARROLL, CORRESPONDENT, "THE ECONOMIST": Well, this is a remarkable story from Bucha, the suburb just north of Kyiv, where some of the worst atrocities have been registered. I saw some of them with my own eyes. As you mentioned, the nine bodies in the builder's yard, right to the side of it, which has been used as a Russian base. And Ivan Skiba (ph), the man in question, (INAUDIBLE), survived. He himself was one of the people who was led around the corner to be summarily executed. And he survived that by basically playing dead on the floor and the bullet went through his body. A remarkable story. In fact, his -- as you say, his friends died alongside him. The godfather of his children also died alongside him.

Now, you mentioned that Russian propaganda has tried to take away from what happened by saying that this was done by the Ukrainians. I know for myself that the smell of the bodies, and -- which I saw, the corpses, which some of whom had their hands tied behind their backs, clear puncture wounds to the -- to the torso, to the throat, to the head, the smell of them was not something that happened after two or three days of zero are near zero temperatures. They'd been there for quite a while. And by the testimony of Mr. Skiba, this happened in the first week of March, during the first few days of Russian occupation.

Now, the story is repeated elsewhere. I saw similar stories in Borodyanka (ph). But it's important to say that there's an awful lot of people who have died in these places. Some of them are the result of war. Some of them are the result of heart attacks and general medical problems on the basis of war. But some of them we don't know quite what percentage are down to these rather horrific atrocities and obvious war crimes.

GOLODRYGA: And for some of them, whether it's through family stories, whether it's through what they saw with their own eyes when they were just small children, I mean this is another example of war on their soil there, and atrocities before their eyes.

[09:35:11]

You talked to an elderly woman who called these Russians Germans and you then questioned her again, Germans. And she said, well, yes, how else am I supposed to call them, comparing them to some of the atrocities perpetrated at the hands of Nazis in World War II.

CARROLL: That was something that stuck with me, very vividly when she said (INAUDIBLE), which in Ukrainian means Germans. And she offered that without any prompt.

This war for Ukrainians is essentially been named the same as the second world war, patriotic war. It's -- that's what Ukrainians think this is. And they feel that their very existence, their survival as a nation has been questioned by Vladimir Putin. That is why -- that is what's fueling the very fierce resistance they're putting up.

But, as you say, I mean, this is something that's going to be in the memory of a whole generation of people. This is going to change Ukraine as a country. If after 2014 the war in Donbas and (INAUDIBLE) made a nation, this is going to make a state.

And while in Kyiv, today, you look outside and things are superficially are getting back to normal, there is something which seems to have changed since -- not since the days of shelling, of course things have changed since then, things have calmed down in Kyiv, but since the start of the war. And I think this will really shape Ukraine, whatever it becomes as a nation, these days we're seeing now.

GOLODRYGA: You know, before we go, I just want to tell our viewers about this fascinating interview, if they haven't read it, that you conducted with President Zelenskyy about two weeks ago in Kyiv. And among the things that he told you, two weeks ago, was the fact that though he appreciates these unprecedented sanctions, he believes they shouldn't be incremental and that sanctions should be, in terms of cutting off all oil and gas, should happen right now because they are not, quote, guinea pigs.

Just as we have a final few seconds here, do you have a sense that that will happen anytime soon?

CARROLL: I don't -- I mean I wouldn't want to offer a position on that. I'm a journalist trying to keep a neutral position. But clearly a lot of money is going into Russian coffers at a time when they're putting on a rather heinous war. And for the time being, the money is flowing in. And while it does, it's very hard to see how Russians will dial down this war.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, Oliver Carroll, thank you so much for all of your outstanding reporting. We appreciate it.

CARROLL: (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: It's what these -- what these people have witnessed with their own eyes.

Just ahead, a wild story out of Washington. Two men accused now of impersonating federal officers and paying for gifts and apartments for Secret Service agents, including at least one on the first lady's detail. We're going to have a live report, next.

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[09:42:07]

SCIUTTO: The FBI has now arrested two men accused of impersonating Department of Homeland Security agents for more than two years. Investigators say the two gave expensive gifts and rent-free apartments to federal agents in Washington, D.C. Members of Secret Service -- the Secret Service on administrative leave pending these investigations.

CNN's Whitney Wild joins us live.

Whitney, it indeed a wild story, no pun intended. What ultimately led to their arrests?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically what led to the arrests is that there was an assault at this building. And through the course of the investigation, agents from the United States Postal Inspection Service figured out basically that this was going on because there was -- it's a really complicated story, so just hang with me while I explain it.

Basically what happened was these two guys were living in this building where apparently there are a ton of law enforcement officers. So, through the course of this investigation, these USPIS officers spoke with witnesses in the building to learn about the assault. Through that, witnesses said, you should talk to these guys, they seem to know everything. So then that's when this USPS -- USPIS agents zeroed in on these two guys. Through their enforce of the investigation they figured out that they were pretending to be members of the DHS.

And this went on for two years. And that's when, according to the FBI, these two men collected enough gear to pretend to be -- realistically pretend to be law enforcement. So they had things like handguns, assault rifles, other things, tactical gear, laptops, you know, personal identification cards that only law enforcement -- only federal law enforcement has that convinced other members of law enforcement they really were who they said they were. They were not.

And, again, over time, they really buddied up to these members of law enforcement, including people in highly secured positions, like at the Secret Service. One person they buddied up to and offered to buy an assault rifle for was a member of the first lady's security detail. Other members of the Secret Service include members of the uniformed division. Those are the officers that surround the White House -- the White House complex.

Long story short, these guys pretended to be cops. They buddied up to a bunch of other cops in D.C. For what purpose? We don't know.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILD: I mean we don't know if this was a big scheme to try to get information and blackmail these people or if they were pretending to be, you know, if they were just pretending to be in law enforcement because they thought it was really cool. There are just a ton of open questions. It's a story we will continue to watch.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILD: And, further, we don't know how it was funded. It takes a lot of money it pretend to be a cop at that level. So, there you go.

SCIUTTO: No question. I mean the question, was there any indication that they were going to use those weapons or that false identity to carry out some sort of attack.

Whitney Wild, thanks so much.

They traveled thousands of miles hoping to find safety in the U.S. Up next, what Ukrainian refugees are experiencing as they await along the U.S./Mexico border.

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[09:49:27]

SCIUTTO: The U.S. is now committed to accepting up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees through various humanitarian pathways into this country. At this moment, though, hundreds of people seeking asylum living in tents along the U.S./Mexico border.

CNN's Randi Kaye visited one such camp in Tijuana and spoke to desperate families fleeing the war.

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RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This woman and two-and-a- half-year-old son are living in a tent in Tijuana, Mexico. Along with her husband, they escaped the war in Ukraine and are hoping to enter the United States.

[09:50:02]

KAYE (on camera): So, this is your son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.

KAYE: One child?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One.

KAYE (voice over): She shows me on the map where she says she once lived in western Ukraine before the Russian bombs started to fall.

KAYE (on camera): How long did it take you to get to Mexico? Your travel?

KAYE (voice over): She tells me she traveled through four countries to get here. Mexico was allowing Ukrainians in with a simple travel visa. They just ran, she says, taking only a small suitcase and a blanket for her son. She worries about him with the cold temperatures at night.

They are just one of hundreds of Ukrainian families camped out here at the U.S. border with Mexico. The tents are set up at the San Yasidro (ph) border crossing just south of San Diego.

At the time of our visit, about 2,400 people were waiting to enter the U.S., which has promised to allow 100,000 Ukrainians in on humanitarian grounds. They can stay for one year.

KAYE (on camera): How quickly are these refugees able to get into the U.S.?

INNA LEVIEN, VOLUNTEER: Oh, my gosh, not quickly enough. We -- we can get across maybe 300 people a day on a good day. Some days are 200 and some days are 150. So, it's -- it all depends.

KAYE (voice over): Inna Levien is from Orange County, California, and helping coordinate the volunteer effort here. Every family here has a number. And when it gets called, it's their turn to cross.

KAYE (on camera): Do you have a number?

KAYE (voice over): This woman and her three children have number 1,594. They are sleeping here, she says, until it's their turn.

KAYE (on camera): Toys. Can I see?

KAYE (voice over): Another woman, Irina Dashkul (ph), tells me she's been sleeping in this tent with her five children.

KAYE (on camera): Do you know when you might be called to go to the U.S.?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think soon.

KAYE (voice over): There is food and games for the children.

We found this boy playing with blue and gold Play-Doh. The same colors as the Ukrainian flag.

Eugene Saluk and his family escaped Mariupol for Mexico.

EUGENE SALUK, UKRAINIAN TRYING TO CROSS INTO U.S.: Our house is destroyed. We -- we lose everything. You know, we don't know anything about our friends and, moreover, we don't know nothing about the parents of my wife.

KAYE: If he and his family make it to the U.S., they will stay with family in California until it's safe to return to Ukraine.

SALUK: I had a cousin in U.S.

KAYE (on camera): Where?

SALUK: Sacramento.

KAYE (voice over): As the day wore on, Oksana Dovgan refused to give up hope she and her mother would make it to the U.S.

KAYE (on camera): What is it like waiting here for your number to be called?

OKSANA DOVGAN, HELPING UKRAINIAN MOTHER CROSS INTO U.S.: I don't know. I mean we came hoping that it was going to be fast, maybe another hour, but they're saying two, three hours at least until the number will be called. And then, from there, I have no idea how long it will take us, you know, to cross the border.

KAYE (voice over): Oksana lives in Colorado and flew to Warsaw hoping to bring her mother to the U.S. Before coming here, her 66-year-old mother had been sheltering in a basement in Ukraine for ten days.

KAYE: So, will she come live with you in Colorado?

DOVGAN: Yes, I have a good place to accommodate her. My kids can't wait to see her, their grandma, and spend time with her. And we want to -- we want her, you know, happy and safe and relaxed in the family circle.

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KAYE: And we do have some good news. Oksana, who you saw there with her mom, they were able to cross the border. They caught the last flight out of San Diego to Denver, Colorado. And her mother is now safe with her grandchildren, sleeping in a warm bed and having some homecooked meals.

And just as we were setting up for our live shot this morning, Eugene, who you also saw in our story, walked right across the border here with his family heading to his cousin's house in Sacramento.

But I should mention that that tent camp that we did visit has now been shut down due to safety reasons. They moved about 500 people to a sports complex nearby in Tijuana just across the border from where I'm standing. They have two bathrooms for about 500 people in that sports complex. Not ideal conditions but certainly much safer than where these people were coming from.

Jim, Bianna, back to you.

SCIUTTO: I've got to tell you, I mean, it is a fraction, a tiny fraction of what Ukraine's neighbors are facing and taking in. Poland, 2.5 million refugees have come in there. That's more than 20 times that 100,000 target figure. So, when we look at what's happening there, you compare what's happening in those neighboring countries, it's just a different order, it's a different scale.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, Moldova, 400,000. The population of the country in total is 2.5 million.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Just get a sense of what they're having to deal with now. Obviously, we've got to get more of them here in the states as well.

SCIUTTO: We do.

GOLODRYGA: Randi Kaye, thank you.

Well, minutes from now, the U.N. General Assembly will begin a meeting where they will vote on whether to suspend Russia from the Human Rights Council. We'll take you there live. Stay with us.

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[09:59:22]

SCIUTTO: There is now an island wide power outage in Puerto Rico. This after a fire at a power plant knocked out the electricity there.

GOLODRYGA: You see the images right there on your screen.

CNN's Carlos Suarez is following this from Miami.

And, Carlos, this outage began last night. Bring us up to speed to where things stand this morning.

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim and Bianna, good morning.

That blackout is one of the biggest to hit the island in months. This morning people across Puerto Rico, they're frustrated, they're angry, and they're wondering just when the power will come back. There was a failure at one of the island four main power plants, which led to a fire on Wednesday. Authorities with Luma (ph), the utility company, said they were looking into an issue with a circuit breaker, but they weren't sure what caused that fire.

[10:00:06]

Hospitals on the island have been running on generators and today