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Ukrainian Foreign Minister Says, Best Way to Help Us is to Provide Weapons; Major Fighting in Eastern Ukraine as Russia Intensifies Attacks; Journalist Documents Russia's War on Ukraine. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 07, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The utility company said they were looking into an issue with the circuit breaker but they weren't sure what caused that fire.

[10:00:06]

Hospitals on the island have been running on generators. And today, the government suspended class and work for government employees.

The lack of power has also impacted water. At least 100,000 customers with the water authority are without water because of that outage. That number is according to the governor's office.

LUMA, a private company, has been in charge of that power grid since last June and has been making upgrades to the decades' old power grid all but wiped out by hurricane Maria in 2017.

Now, the power station where that fire broke out was the source of another massive blackout in 2016 when a fire at the plant left tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans without power. The utility company said they expect to have the power back on by this evening. Jim and Bianna?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Good to have you following it. Carlos Suarez, thanks so much.

A very good morning to you all of you. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Bianna Golodryga along with Jim. Great to have you on set with us.

Obviously, we continue to follow the developments out of Ukraine and here in New York, where Russia's future on the United Nation's Human Rights Council hangs in the balance. This hour, the General Assembly meets to consider suspending Russia from that council.

Also this hour, Secretary of State Antony Blinken is sitting down with Ukraine's foreign minister whose request for NATO countries this week is straight to the point. It's weapons, weapons, and more weapons.

SCIUTTO: A consistent call for more help from Ukrainian officials on the ground in Ukraine. In the midst of ongoing war, the Russian offensive in the east is now intensifying with heavy fighting on the ground there and shelling. A senior Ukrainian official warning the most difficult situation is now in the Donbas there in the east. Civilian evacuations are beginning to ramp up around Kharkiv, a potential sign, really, of the catastrophic level of fighting and the suffering civilians are seeing there. Ten humanitarian corridors are expected across Ukraine today. That is, we should note, people fleeing for their lives.

In Bucha, just outside the capital, Kyiv, a curfew is now is now in place as crews try to rid the area of mines that Russian troops left behind, another danger to the civilians there.

CNN's Brianna Keilar, she is live in Lviv, in Western Ukraine. Brianna, this has been a consistent message from Ukrainian officials for weeks now, and that is, we need more military support. Tell us what you're seeing there today, because this war rages on.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It does, and it's shifting. So we've heard from a U.S. defense official that Russian forces outside of Kyiv, outside of Chernihiv, are gone, that they are entirely out of the area. And they have also been revealing drone city from Chernobyl, which you'll recall had been captured by Russian forces but the Ukrainians took back, really, the Russians withdrew from there. And this video is revealing digging of trenches, so sort of like trench warfare in the area, which you can imagine is a very bad idea in radioactive soil. There had been some reports about Russian soldiers suffering from radiation. So, you can see if they dug those holes, you would understand why that's the case.

We've heard what they left behind. Bucha, we've seen it, the bodies. Borodyanka, we're seeing pan-caked buildings. I actually spoke with the deputy governor of the Kyiv region, which, of course, is where Borodyanka is, and he says, in that city, there were nine-- or, pardon me, five nine-storey buildings, apartment buildings, there five five- storey buildings. These were built in the Soviet era, and they were hammered. They were completely destroyed. And that is just part of it. There were also 30 houses on the central street that were also destroyed, just a completely decimated city.

I spoke with him and he told me about something that stood out to him, which was a woman he was talking to there in Borodyanka.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLEKSII KULEBA, GOVERNOR OF KYIV REGION: He was looking at me and she said, I don't understand why, what have we done? What have we done to deserve this destruction and the murders of our families? She was sitting in front of a building that was flattened, and in that building, her sister and her sister's family died. And she was looking me straight in the eyes and she said, what have we done? What has our country done? What have our people done to deserve this damage?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And he said that there was nothing he could tell her. He was basically beside himself as she asked him that question.

And so right now, Jim and Bianna, you're seeing actually people returning to Kyiv. They are coming back after seeking refuge in Western Ukraine, maybe even some in Poland, even though officials in Kyiv are saying, no, don't come back yet because there's so much damage there.

[10:05:03]

They want to clear before they have more people in the city. But on the eastern side of the country, they're looking to the west. They're seeing what happened here when Russian forces were here. And so right now, officials in Donetsk and Luhansk are warning people that they need to get out so that they don't suffer the same fate.

GOLODRYGA And we're seeing more and more indications, Brianna, as more intel is coming out as to how this was deliberate on the part of Russians there. The atrocities against civilians was premeditated and, obviously, there needs to be more investigation into confirming that. But every day, we seem to see more and more details suggesting that is indeed the case. Brianna Keilar, thank you.

SCIUTTO: And there's history there, right, because Russia honed this method of war in Chechnya in the '90s, and Syria more recently, deliberately targeting civilians, even things like bombing hospitals, right? It doesn't come out of nowhere. It's part of their track record, and that's something we have to be conscious of.

Well, right now, a special session of the U.N. General Assembly is under way, this as members consider whether to suspend Russia from its position on the Human Rights Council.

GOLODRYGA CNN Senior United Nations Correspondent Richard Roth is at the U.N. Richard, the suspension only happens with the two-thirds majority vote. I traveled with the ambassador to the U.N. over the weekend. She told me at the time that she was confident that the votes were indeed there. Talk about what this move would mean and the symbolism.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Highly symbolic, unknown whether it really has any teeth going forward. But with many things at the U.N., it takes time and it's a step by step process. Should atrocities continue, the carnage go on months from now, could we see any type of move to impact Russia at the Security Council or elsewhere, it's possible, it's unprecedented regarding Russia's permanent status at the Security Council.

This Human Rights Council sits in Geneva and can order human rights investigations and has done so around the world. And Russia is an active member there, second year of a three-year term there. However, this U.N. General Assembly that is currently gathering in the famous hall is about to vote on suspending Russia. You need a two-thirds vote of members present and voting. Those 38 or 40 people, those countries who abstained a few weeks ago on a similar vote regarding Russia, they don't count. So, it will be interesting, almost like a school day, a special day at school here, where, finally, after weeks and months of speeches on different things, there's a vote. And you're going to see an electronic scoreboard come up and we'll know pretty quickly.

However, before this vote, there are at least ten or a dozen countries, including supporters of Russia, North Korea, Venezuela, who are going to speak before the vote, FYI.

SCIUTTO: And, listen, Russia has said very publicly they're going to punish countries that try to punish it for its invasion. Richard Roth, thanks so much, good to have you, as always.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN National Security Analyst Andrea Kendall-Taylor, she's Senior Fellow at Stockholm Free World Forum. Also with us, Anders Aslund. Good to have you both on.

I wonder, Anders, if I could begin with you. So, Russia may be taken off this Human Rights Council here. There's discussion from Janet Yellen about not meeting with Russia at the G20. Russia has already been taken out of the G7. Does this matter to Vladimir Putin? Because we've often talked about in the past about how he enjoys these platforms that legitimize him and put him on a similar level with the U.S., with China, with other leaders. So, does removal from these bodies, in your view, have an impact?

ANDERS ASLUND, ECONOMIST, SENIOR FELLOW, STOCKHOLM FREE WORLD FORUM: Yes, I think it's quite important because, as you said, President Putin wants to be present in all important venues and he's being kicked out of this, he will feel it.

GOLODRYGA Andrea, there are two obstacles in our way going forward as we assess this war. One, obviously, it's calling out these war crimes after what we've seen in Bucha and perhaps other cities that we're just now seeing images of, and holding Russia accountable. At the same time, we need to bring this war to an end.

And I'm just curious to get your perspective on how much trust, if any, remains in terms of those peace talks we saw in Turkey just last week. I mean, the mediator on the Turkish side now said that this may now have to hold off for a couple of weeks. How do you rebuild those talks while also holding Russia accountable for what looks like war crimes on the ground there?

ANDREA KENDALL-TAYLOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I think that is an important point to underscore, and what we see here, as you've noted earlier in the segment, the war crimes that we saw this Bucha were deliberate, they were intentional and they are designed to try to break the will of Ukrainians and get President Zelenskyy to bend to Russia's demand.

But here again, I think is the case where Putin's actions, Russia's actions, will backfire and they are actually going to make it much more difficult for the Ukrainians to negotiate.

[10:10:08] President Zelenskyy has said that himself. And I do think that the more war crimes we see, the less willing that the Ukrainians will be to make any sort of concessions because then what will have all the suffering and the damage been for?

And so also, though, on the Russian side, you know, these atrocities reflect a growing current of nationalism within Russian society, where you have people calling for very maximalist, total victory inside Russia. So, on the Russian side, these types of atrocities and the sentiment that it reflects inside Russian society are going to make it even harder for President Putin to climb down when you have this tremendous Russian demands for him to deliver the total victory.

So, on both sides, again, I think your point is spot on that it is going to make negotiations ever more difficult.

SCIUTTO: Anders, there are Ukrainian officials, we spoke to one yesterday, who say now is not a good time for Ukrainians to negotiate because they believe they have the upper hand on the battlefield, right, that they can gain more. And you even hear discussion of Ukraine winning this war, which we should note is remarkable given where we were six weeks ago when the assumption was this would be over quickly to Putin's advantage. Do you believe that's the dynamic on the battlefield right now, that Ukraine has the upper hand?

ASLUND: Well, yes, more than 90 percent of Ukrainians in repeated opinion post think that they are winning the war. On the other hand, people increasingly think that the war will last for some time. But to take it more broadly, you can see this war as two big battles. The first battle was of Kyiv. Ukraine won that. Now, we have the second, probably a decisive battle, over the Donbas.

The Russians are now on the attack. They want to win this. President Putin thinks that this is the victory he needs in order to secure his position at home. And the Ukrainians are still on the defense and they hope that they will win but they are running out of ammunition and of arms and they need more offensive arms in order to win this battle. So, this battle looks less clear in its outcome than the battle of Kyiv.

GOLODRYGA And, Andrea, on that note, obviously, we continue to see the U.S. put in more money, more resources, more weaponry, I believe close to $2 billion now in aid since this war began, but you hear the Ukrainian foreign minister say, we need more, we need more weapons. Can the U.S. start providing more as soon as possible, including more weaponry and perhaps things like anti-ship missiles, as that they are trying to protect those important port cities, like Odessa, in the south?

KENDALL-TAYLOR: Yes. I think the United States is listening to what President Zelenskyy has to say and it's taking steps to increase the weapons supply to Ukraine. The focus has been on putting weapons in the hands of Ukrainians that have high impact and that they know how to readily use, so that they can be very quickly integrated into their battle plans and into the fighting. But as we're hearing from U.S. and NATO officials that we expect this war to be in months and perhaps years. I think the United States needs to start thinking about what types of weapons systems it wants to be sending into Ukraine. It might be time to start sending more sophisticated weapons and give Ukrainians time to train up on them if we do, in fact, expect this conflict to be fought over the longer term.

So, I hope we considering the types weapons we send recognizing that we are looking at this longer term horizon.

SCIUTTO: It's a good point, right, because the question becomes, are you arming Ukraine for a short-term conflict or a lasting war? And that seems to be what we're facing here more and more.

GOLODRYGA Which is why they would need more sophisticated weaponry, right?

Anders Aslund and Andrea Kendall-Taylor, thank you, as always.

Well, up next, we speak with a Ukrainian photojournalist on the ground documenting life under siege, such important work with the aftermath of Russia's occupation there.

SCIUTTO: Plus, this hour, senators are going to take on Russian energy. How their vote sets up more economic consequences for Russia, that's later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

GOLODRYGA Facebook's parent company says hackers tied to Russia have targeted accounts belonging to Ukrainian troops. Meta says the bad actors were also posing as journalists and independent news outlets to push Russian propaganda online. You know they're very good at doing this.

SCIUTTO: No question. So, who's pushing back against all that?

Our next guest, Ukrainian photojournalist, she has stayed to document this war in pictures, risking her life to try to stop Russia's disinformation campaign from standing in the way of truth. We have to warn you that some of the images she's captured are difficult to see.

Photojournalist Julia Kochetova joins us now. Julia, it's good to have you here.

The work you're doing there is making a difference. We need folks to realize that because you're documenting many of these atrocities we see on the ground and the invasion itself.

[10:20:05]

I just wonder how you balance that mission with the pain and the burden of witnessing this up close. JULIA KOCHETOVA, UKRAINIAN PHOTOJOURNALIST: That's pretty difficult to be on the edge, but that's the only way how I could survive now here in Kyiv, actually. Because as a Ukrainian, as a citizen, as a photojournalist, I'm continuing to do my job, but I also had a strong feeling that it's not enough just to witness what's happening, what the crime against humanity is happening with my country, but also to document that crime.

Even with the fact that now all international amazing journalists reporting from Ukraine, I still have a strong belief we need to highlight local crises because Ukrainian photographers on the ground, they are like real perspective, real balance and real truth. Because not only is it the context, not only the language, that's our war, that's our country and that's how we shape how we document that.

GOLODRYGA And one of those esteemed photojournalists just lost his life, Maksim Levin, last week, chronicling all of the suffering there at the hands of Russian soldiers there. Your life also, I would imagine, you view at risk too. Talk about the weight that you now carry of needing to do this work, but also seeing friends and colleagues lose their lives doing so.

KOCHETOVA: So, now, it's already seven deaths among media colleagues and I knew Maks for years before and it was a huge loss for our community, for sure. Every death is a huge loss. I'm pretty sure that this war is more cruel than the other conflicts and my foreign colleagues keep saying that this war is the worst one.

And to risk my life is probably the same as any other Ukrainian citizen now faced with, same as people who were occupied in Bucha, near Kyiv, same as Mariupol residents who now are trying to survive inside the occupied city. It just is the same risks. Yes, sometimes, it's different, but, for me, it's not only about professional duty but about the mission as well.

I had a feeling that I got ready for this moment in my life and this moment in the history of my country that I've got prepared, the whole, my previous experience was for that. So, I got ready for that before. And I'm happy to be with my country right now.

SCIUTTO: Well, you're doing such important work.

I want to ask you, going into this war, there was so much talk about Russia's powerful disinformation machine, but we've seen that Ukraine has managed to, and journalists like yourself, has managed to get the truth out. Do you see that Russia is losing the information war here?

KOCHETOVA: I'm not an expert in informational wars. I'm doing every warrior (ph). I'm doing like really, really small work in the huge context. I had the huge support from the international community online since this war has started. I had a huge support on Instagram and all of our social media, but still I'm receiving messages from Russians and, still, I receive -- full of Russian propaganda.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA Julia --

KOCHETOVA: Yes, it's a pity, this war, the informational one (INAUDIBLE), the war on the ground would last for years, and I understand that. And it's not about that like we're winning right now or we've won already, the informational war, but that's a marathon and I'm ready to run, and that's same as all of my Ukrainian colleagues who stayed here.

GOLODRYGA Well, the best way to counter that is by doing what you're doing, the important work, documenting and chronicling everything that's happening there on the ground.

[10:25:00]

You can't call that fake news, right, which is how Russia wants to describe it.

Julia Kochetova, please be safe and thank you for everything you're doing.

Well, right now on Capitol Hill, senators are voting on a measure that could lead to more action against Russia. We'll take you to Washington, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]

SCIUTTO: Right now, senators, as you can see there, voting on a bill that would revoke Russia and Belarus' trade status with the U.S., the most favored nation trading status.