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Now, Senate Votes on Ending Russia's and Belarus' Trade Status With U.S.; Secretary of State Meets With Ukrainian Foreign Minister; DOJ Blocks National Archives From Sharing Details About Mar-a-Lago Boxes. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 07, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Right now, senators, as you could see there, voting on a bill that would revoke Russia and Belarus' trade status with the U.S., most favored nation in trading status, as it's known. They will also vote on banning Russian energy imports to codify President Biden's existing executive order.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. Manu, where are we on this vote? It's a day of consequential votes there, really.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it. The Senate and the House are racing to finish a number of key issues as they head out into a two-week recess beginning tomorrow, and this starting right now to nix the trade status of Russia and Belarus. That is going to pass, it's sailing through right now, 51 votes in the affirmative, no, no votes.

And then afterwards, they're going to move to ban Russian energy imports. This has been an issue they have actually been haggling about on the Senate side for weeks. But now they have a deal and they're going to move to pass it very quickly. The House will make the final approval sometime today.

Now, in between that is going to be the confirmation of the first black woman Supreme Court justice in history. Ketanji Brown Jackson is poised to get confirmed with the 53-47 vote. Three Republicans, Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, expected to join all Democrats in confirming this nomination later this afternoon.

Now, there have been a lot of rhetoric on both sides, particularly among Republican critics who say that she is soft on crime. Earlier this week, Senator Tom Cotton went as far, suggesting that she would have defended the Nazis at Nuremberg. Earlier this morning, I asked Joe Manchin, the West Virginia Democrat, about those remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Tom Cotton said that she could potentially -- she may have defended the Nazis if she had the chance to do so. What do you think about that?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): It's just so disrespectful, very shameful, that anyone has to go through that. This woman is very accomplished, very well educated, very well experienced, and she has the right temperament to be on the court. I made my decisions based on everything I've heard and everything and I've read and we've checked and researched everything we could. To make those accusations, it's harmful to this institution that we would go to that position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, even as the rhetoric has been sharp among some Republicans, it's not going to affect what the ultimate outcome is going to be here. And the next hour, the Democrats with those three Republicans are going to have enough votes to break a filibuster and then they're going to move to the final confirmation vote about 1:45 P.M. Eastern and then Jackson will take her seat on the court once Stephen Breyer officially steps down when the term ends in June or July. Guys?

SCIUTTO: It's a moment in history. Manu Raju, thank you so much.

Well, so far, more than 2.5 million refugees have crossed into Poland from Ukraine since the start of Russia's invasion. In an exclusive interview with CNN, Polish President Andrzej Duda said, it is, quote, hard to deny that Russian forces are committing genocide.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, fascinating interview. CNN's Dana Bash spoke to the president. She joins us now in Warsaw.

So many takeaways from this exclusive interview, Dana. What stood out to you now?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the most interesting things is how the Polish government right now is kind of realigning itself and redirecting itself towards the issue of national security. You know this, both of you, Bianna and Jim, it's not as if the security of the Pols has been far from their thoughts or their policies at all pretty much ever, but right now, especially with this long border between this country of Poland and Ukraine, even more so.

This country, this government just purchased $4.75 billion worth of military equipment, of tanks, from the U.S. military. And so I asked about the importance of that when I spoke exclusively to the Polish president, Duda.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: How worried are you about the conflict in Ukraine spilling into Poland?

ANDRZEJ DUDA, POLISH PRESIDENT: In a situation of Russian aggression on Ukraine, the military, people call it full-fledged invasion, I think that under these circumstances, nobody has any doubt that Poland is potentially threatened by Russian aggression in a future. So, because of that, we need to stand in our defense potential.

We are very happy to be members of NATO. Until today, we are grateful to the United States and to the Polish community living in the United States for supporting our aspirations to become members of NATO. There is Article 5. President Joe Biden now, when he was in Warsaw, stressed very strongly in Warsaw, not for the first time, that Article 5 is ironclad and that collective defense is of fundamental importance. I'm very much grateful to the American president for that.

It is of huge importance to the Polish people that we are serious about our defense, we want to defend ourselves. We want NATO, we want the U.S. Armed Forces to also support us if there such a need. But, first and foremost, we want to be able to defend ourselves, therefore, we need to increase the size of the Polish Armed Forces.

[10:35:00]

We need to modernize our armed forces, which is being done. We need to increase defense spending on the Polish Armed Forces. We declared that we are going to spend 3 percent of our GDP on defense already next year. We are implementing all of that.

And in this process, we are still exchanging the rest of the post- Soviet tanks that we still have on stock in our country and we want to replace that with state-of-the-art U.S. tanks, Abrams, tanks which we believe are the best in the world right now, and we are delighted that we are going to have these supplies of 250 tanks and the Polish soldiers will be able to use them in defending the territory of NATO, defending the territory of Poland.

BASH: I want to ask you about sanctions. The war in Ukraine now has been going on for more than six weeks. Are these sanctions working?

DUDA: Of course, sanctions should be stronger, especially given what we were able to see in Bucha. There is a question on how to stop that. And the sanctions regime should be strengthened. I have no doubt, whatsoever, about this.

This is, of course, a very complex task. What would be most efficient would be such economic sanctions which would block Russia the possibility to sell its carbohydrates, first and foremost, and oil and gas. First of all, oil, because oil is the basis from which Russia generates most of its income, to the budget (ph) gas, to a lesser. Oil, crude oil is of key (INAUDIBLE).

The problem, however, is that, for some countries, well, this is fundamental for them.

BASH: The German finance minister said today, at this point, energy sanctions would cause too much harm to Germany's economy. DUDA: Well, this is a broader problem to us, the Pols, because right from the start, we were fighting against joint investments by Russia and Germany, investments in Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2. We were opposed to both of those pipelines, because, to us, they were not so much of economic nature but they were obviously political projects. And their goal was to circumvent the territory of Poland to bypass the Baltic countries, to bypass Ukraine, and so that Russia could apply, I guess, blackmail, against these countries in Central Europe, as it did against Ukraine at the beginning of the 21st century. So, we protested against that all the time.

BASH: It sounds like you're saying, I told you so, about all of the dependence that Germany, in particular, built on Russian energy.

The word blackmail, you believe that Russia is blackmailing Germany right now?

DUDA: I think that, as a matter of fact, Russia is blackmailing not only Germany. Right now, Russia is blackmail, in fact, the entire Europe.

Now, the fact that we're saying it is impossible to impose embargo on Russian gas, it is not possible to impose embargo on Russian oil right away, yes, because Russia today is saying, additionally, pay me in rubles for that.

Now, I demand that you pay me in rubles. Why? Because Russia believes that this is profitable, that is going to raise the value of its currency, that now, it makes all those sanctions are going to improve its economic situation.

If you're asking me about sanctions, I believe these sanctions are going to be efficient in their majority but they will bring effect in six months' time or longer time. The Russian economy will feel them very strongly because we are speaking about delivery of spare parts for the machines in Russia. Russia is part of the globalized economy in the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Part of the globalized economy, and yet this whole notion of the fact that these western countries, in particular Germany, and to a lesser extent France, have been saying absolutely no to extending these sanctions in a more robust way to Russia's energy sector.

Obviously, you just heard, Bianna and Jim, is something that the Pols and others in this closer region to Russia are saying, this is just unacceptable. Because, of course, Poland, where I am, this is a NATO country, they are protected. Bianna, the country of your birth, Moldova, where you were just a couple of days ago, they are not. So, the spillover factor is one thing here, it's another for those other countries, especially for Russia, which still gets money from these western countries for its oil and gas.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and punting (ph), according to even some E.U. officials, to a subsidy for the Russian war given the amount of money that's going in on a daily basis.

BASH: Yes, exactly.

SCIUTTO: Dana Bash in Poland, thanks so much.

Well, you have seen some of the horrors from Bucha, civilians gunned down on the streets, homes destroyed. Those are civilian homes you're looking at right there. Up next, we're going to hear from a woman who managed to escape the city thankfully with her life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We have no doubts that, in the end, Ukraine will get everything that it needs and will overcome all the reluctance and hesitation coming from some allies when it comes to specific weapons, but the issue of timeline is crucial. And I'm looking forward to our conversation today to discuss the timeline of supplies of the weapons, which are needed to defend Ukraine. I will also like to thank you --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba speaking there just before meeting with Secretary of State Antony Blinken at NATO headquarters.

[10:45:01]

I mean, notable for him to say there, you might call it a public nudge, we're aware that some allies are less willing to send weapons that we need than others, which is true. I mean, there has been some opposition, some more aggressive, some less aggressive.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The takeaway is you'll eventually do the right thing, it's just that time is not on our side right now, and we need those weapons now.

Well, now, to the incredible stories of the people who have survived the horrors in Bucha, Ukraine, including a woman who spent 14 days hiding in a cellar with her family.

SCIUTTO: Yes, people do that to live, to save their lives.

Our Brianna Keilar joins us now again from Lviv, in Western Ukraine. So, Brianna, you spoke to a woman now, she's safely in Germany, thankfully, but what did she go through before she was able to escape?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It was horrific, Jim and Bianna. She had actually managed to get her kids out and she was going back to Bucha to get her mother but she got stuck because that is when the Russian tanks rolled in. She ended up taking shelter in a basement, very cold, terrible conditions. She was there with dozens of people, including her mother, who was 70, the oldest person. The youngest person in the basement was eight months old.

And here is what she told us about her experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATALIA GAIDEL, SURVIVED RUSSIAN OCCUPATION OF BUCHA: There were about 50 or 70 people who spent for ten days in the cellar, in the very center of the town of Bucha. There were 15 children among us and the youngest one was eight months only, and the oldest probably, it was my mom, and she's 70.

And, besides, there was a woman who was pregnant on the 39th week of pregnancy, and for the first days, it was impossible to get through to the hospital because the hospital was on the other side of the main road where is they're hiding (ph) and all the battles, all the fighting were there.

And we were very lucky because we were staying in the very center of the town and he had two big supermarkets nearby, and our men were very brave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Natalia talks about how they would sneak up to check on things, Jim and Bianna, and they saw that there were dead bodies out. They knew the stakes. So, they stayed hidden until on a radio, they heard that they would be able to escape. But that escape out of Bucha was incredibly harrowing. At one point, they said they thought they were going to die. There were Russian soldiers shooting near them.

GOLODRYGA: I just reread Bloodlands. And just hearing stories like that, you're just reminded of things you read in history, right, World War II, before that, early in the 20th century. And to hear families having to relive that now in 2022 can never get used to that.

SCIUTTO: And, by the way, Brianna, as we talked to you last hour, the threat that they faced, fleeing is not a made up one. It's a real one. You were showing the drone footage earlier of folks in their cars, right, shot by Russian soldiers as they left. It's so good to have you on, Brianna, thanks so much.

GOLODRYGA: Well, still ahead, it was a major win for Congress to get access to some Trump White House documents. But now Congress is being blocked from getting information about some of those records.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

GOLODRYGA: And this just in to CNN, the Justice Department is blocking the National Archives from sharing details with Congress about 15 so-called Mar-a-Lago boxes.

SCIUTTO: Those are boxes of records that had to be retrieved from Florida after former President Trump took them with him when he left office. CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins us now with more. So, why exactly this block and what does it affect?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I think, Jim and Bianna, we have to remind people that this included classified information in these boxes that the National Archives says were included in those 15 boxes and referred to the Justice Department to take a look at.

Now, what we know is that Carolyn Maloney, the chairwoman of the Oversight Committee, is asking Merrick Garland, the attorney general, to explain why the Justice Department is preventing the Archives from sharing more details about what is happening.

According to the Archives, they're calling it a consultation with the Justice Department, which is sort of a tortured term that everyone seems to be using to try to avoid saying that this is under investigation by the Justice Department, by the FBI, it's routine, this is what they do.

They take a look at whenever they find classified information may have been stored, may have been handled in a way that is not under the requirements that the government has for handling classified information, of course, moving boxes of classified information to Mar- a-Lago, to the president's private estate in Florida would appear to fall under that umbrella.

So, what we know is that this is now under investigation from the Justice Department. We reached out to the Justice Department. They declined to comment. So far, all they're saying is that they're trying to follow the facts and the law and will do whatever they do at the end of that.

[10:55:02]

Of course, you understand that the Justice Department is trying its best to not say that the former president is under investigation.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. Evan Perez, we know you'll stay on top of it. Thank you so much.

And thanks so much to all of you joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.

GOLODRYGA: I'm Bianna Golodryga with Jim in New York. It's been a delight. At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts after a quick break.

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