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New Russian Commander Has History Of Atrocities; Three People Killed At Gun Range, Dozens Of Weapons Stolen; Ukrainian Couple Stranded In The U.S. Helps People Back Home; Interview With Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA) About Russian War In Ukraine; Tiger Woods Completes Professional Return To Golf; Ginni Thomas' Efforts To Overturn the 2020 Election. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 10, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:22]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Russian President Vladimir Putin has appointed a new commander to oversee his country's entire military.

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: This general will just be another author of crimes and brutality against Ukrainian civilians. Ukraine will never be subjugated to Russia. It doesn't matter which general President Putin tries to appoint.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Ukrainians are evacuating and bracing for an onslaught that government officials believe is on the horizon.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Trucks moving with self- propelled grenade launchers, artillery pieces. They're going down into the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. They're going to try to take the east.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As many as 4,000 people were here at the Kramatorsk railway station waiting to be evacuated when there was a large blast overhead that rained down thousands of pieces of shrapnel.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): I think this clearly is genocide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russia is not just waging an unprovoked war on Ukrainian territory. What they are doing is genocide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday. Two days after Russia's barbaric attack on a civilian train station in Ukraine, the death toll rises.

We want to warn you that the images you're about to see are graphic and very disturbing. At least 57 people have now died from the attack. More than 100 were injured. The casualties included families desperate to evacuate before Russia's expected assault on the Donbas region. And new satellite images showed some of that building Russian

offensive right here as you see a massive convoy eight miles long is now just east of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city.

Today the White House is warning that the newly named Russian commander taking over the mission in Ukraine has a history of atrocities and that Ukrainians should brace for that brutality to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SULLIVAN: This particular general has a resume that includes brutality against civilians in other theaters, in Syria, and we can expect more of the same in this theater.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So let's begin on the ground in Ukraine. CNN's Ed Lavandera is in the port city of Odessa.

So, Ed, you heard the warning from the White House. Does this new Russian commander change Ukraine's military strategy?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, if the strategy is to inflict ultimate pain and decimation on civilian population and innocent people, it's perhaps not so much a change in strategy as an escalation of what we've already seen, given what we have seen in Mariupol, what we have seen in the suburbs around Kyiv, and it is disturbing because this general, Aleksandr Dvornikov, is known in some military circles as the butcher of Syria.

This is someone who led a ruthless campaign of decimating neighborhoods, civilian attacks in the country of Syria during that war. So that is a significant development. And this is all happening, Pamela, as we know Russian forces are regrouping and remobilizing their forces to inflict more attacks in eastern Ukraine.

BROWN: And what more are we learning, Ed, about that eight-mile-long Russian convoy near Kharkiv?

LAVANDERA: Well, we have seen satellite images of that convoy and it's, you know, kind of clear that this is part of that process of Russian forces regrouping, remobilizing into eastern Ukraine to really kind of focus its attack on the Donbas region and perhaps trying to put more pressure on some of the Ukrainian military forces that are there on the edge of that frontline battling from -- into the eastern part of Ukraine.

So whether or not they will be able to sustain this is still very much up in the air. There are U.S. officials who have estimated that in the first part, in the first wave of this war, that the Russian military has lost about a quarter of its fighting force already. So will they be able to sustain this? You know, we have seen over and over the last few weeks that the Russians have struggled with resupplying issues and supply chain problems that have really hampered what the forces could do on the ground and being able to sustain forward momentum. And the Ukrainians of course have put up, by all accounts, an

incredible fight. So that is the strategy and that is the focus that the Ukrainian military forces on the ground will have to face here in the coming weeks.

[18:05:04]

BROWN: All right, Ed Lavandera on the ground there in Odessa. Thank you so much.

And now let's bring in a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. He's also vice president for Russia and Europe at the U.S. Institute of Peace.

Hi, Ambassador. Great to have you back on the show. So I want to ask you about what the president's National Security adviser Jake Sullivan said earlier today, downplaying the significance of labeling Russian atrocities genocide. Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney was quick to push back. So let's listen to all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: I wasn't satisfied with what I heard. I think that it's crucially important that the United States be clear that we are absolutely committed to Zelenskyy's victory. We should not be talking about, as Jake Sullivan did just now, improving Zelenskyy's position at the negotiating table. This is about defeating Russian forces in Ukraine. I think this clearly is genocide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: You heard her there come out and say this is genocide. But Jake Sullivan wouldn't say it. He said labeling doesn't matter. But why stop short of calling this genocide? The administration has already been very forthright in calling, you know, calling what we're seeing war crimes, calling Putin a war criminal.

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: So, Pamela, he's clearly a war criminal. That new general is clearly a war criminal. In my view, it is genocide. President Putin has said many times, he's written as well as said, that Ukraine doesn't exist. He is taking action to do that, to make Ukraine not exist, to wipe Ukraine off the map.

That, Pamela, is genocide. Now there may be implications of that designation but, nonetheless, we should just call it what it is. President Putin doesn't think Ukraine is a real nation, doesn't think it has sovereignty, doesn't think it should exist, and he's taking action to make that real, and that's genocide.

BROWN: So you think the administration should be calling it genocide then?

TAYLOR: I think it is genocide. And that's what is clear. And then we should act in response to that.

BROWN: And how so?

TAYLOR: We have to ramp up even farther the support we're giving to the Ukrainians. The military support, the heavy weapons support. It's starting. I was on the phone today, this afternoon, with a friend of mine who is in the military. He's in the eastern part of the country. He said that there's just arrived more of these Javelin weapons, just arrived. And he says they need more. That's what needs to happen. We do need to make it so that the Ukrainians can win, the Ukrainians can defeat the Russians.

BROWN: Why do you think we're not making it so then?

TAYLOR: I think we are trying to make it so. I don't think there is anyone that is not committed to the Ukrainians' success and victory. The Ukrainians don't talk about after the war, the Ukrainians talk about after the victory. They're committed. They're committed. We just need to provide, continue to provide, and the NATO allies are helping as well, provide that support.

BROWN: You talked about how this is genocide and that Putin is a war criminal, guilty of committing genocide in Ukraine. Why should Zelenskyy go to the negotiating table with him? You know, you heard what Liz Cheney said earlier and I think people may wonder, well, well, how would you even try to negotiate with him?

TAYLOR: Pamela, it's a great question. It's a great question. It is a question for President Zelenskyy. He understands his situation. He understands the Ukrainian people's situation. He understands the military situation. He understands that this war will have to end. It should end in his victory. It should end in them defeating the Russians. The Ukrainian military has kicked the Russians out of Kyiv, have run them back in to Belarus.

So we saw an earlier version of this convoy. We're now seeing another convoy.

BROWN: Exactly.

TAYLOR: We saw a convoy before. And the Ukrainians defeated that other convoy. They can defeat this convoy if they get the weapons.

BROWN: Right. I mean, because people, again, as I wondered before, will say, OK, well, why don't you strike the convoy? Why don't you strike these tanks? But do you think it's because they don't have what they need to execute that?

TAYLOR: They are -- they did strike the other convoy.

BROWN: They did. Right. They did, but this one --

TAYLOR: And they need to do the same thing with this and they are getting the weapons that they need in order to do that. These Javelins are very good against that kind of a convoy, against those kind of armored vehicles. So they can do this and they've got the capability, the skill, the grit, the determination, and they're now getting the flow of these Javelin weapons. That's what's happening. BROWN: Are you concerned, though, that if Russia is able to succeed in

the east, clearly it's changing its strategy, there is this new commander, that if it is successful there, it will just turn its sights right back on Kyiv?

TAYLOR: You have to worry about that. They have to worry about that. The real-time intelligence is so important.

[18:10:01]

We can tell, overhead intelligence can tell, overhead pictures that we can get from commercial, can tell where the Russians are moving. That's important for the Ukrainians to be able to deploy their forces. They have to protect the capital. They are now able to attack this column in the east from both sides actually. That column is vulnerable from both directions. So they've got some real problems. As we know, the Russian military has been beaten up.

The Russian military has taken a real beating, and the soldiers that are trying to do -- take that action in the east are the same ones that have been beaten in the north.

BROWN: All right, former Ambassador William Taylor, always great to see you. Thank you.

TAYLOR: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: Well, there is an urgent hunt for suspects in Georgia tonight two days after someone shot and killed a gun range owner, his wife and their grandson. Authorities say dozens of weapons were also stolen.

CNN's Nadia Romero joins me now from Atlanta. So, Nadia, what are we learning about this?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really horrific, Pamela, when you talk about what's going on in Grantville, Georgia, right now. It's only about 50 miles southwest of the city of Atlanta but it's in a rural part of the state and a lot of people, they know each other, right, in this small city. The coroner showed up to this crime scene and he found his parents, the gun range owner, Tommy Hawk, and his wife Evelyn Hawk, and their 19-year-old grandson Luke Hawk, who is the son of the coroner.

So he showed up and found that three of his family members murdered at the family gun range and 40 firearms stolen. That's why the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the ATF now investigating. A $15,000 reward for any information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or the people responsible. And when you talk to the police chief of Grantville, he says I knew the Hawk family very well.

They're well-known, well-liked in the community. And it's just shocking for people see something like this happen. Unfortunately, Pamela, this was just one of many gun-related incidents we saw in this country throughout this weekend with gun violence being such an issue that so many communities are dealing with right now -- Pamela.

BROWN: Yes. Absolutely. Nadia, thank you for that.

And still ahead on this Sunday, police tonight investigating the chain of events that led to NFL quarterback Dwayne Haskins being killed crossing a highway.

Also tonight a close race in France as President Emmanuel Macron fights for his political survival against his far-right opponent.

And Tiger Woods gets a standing ovation at the masters for powering back from a car crash that nearly ended his career.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:49]

BROWN: We are still awaiting details about the tragic death of NFL quarterback Dwayne Haskins. A dump truck struck him early Saturday morning on a south Florida interstate. Investigators are trying to determine why Haskins tried to cross the highway on foot. Haskins used to play for the Washington Commanders. Today the Capitals' hockey team paid their respects with a moment of silence before today's game.

Our next guests are a Ukrainian couple who find themselves essentially stranded in the U.S. Oksana Tunikova and her husband Vladyslav Burdeniuk were vacationing in California and just two days from returning home when Russia invaded their native country. They now join us from New York.

Thank you both. I mean, it has been such a difficult, what, 46 days, 46-plus days since you left your homeland and you have been in the U.S. stranded.

Oksana, I want to start with you. How is your family doing back home?

OKSANA TUNIKOVA, UKRAINIAN CITIZEN: So luckily, we were able to evacuate them from the eastern part of Ukraine where the situation is very bad right now. They were in my hometown Severodonetsk, it's Luhansk region. And the city has been affected very heavily by the Russian army. So we had to evacuate my grandparents and my mom from there first to Dnipro then to Lviv, then to Poland and now they are in our relatives in Montenegro. So like luckily they made it out the house alive but, unfortunately, it's not the case for many people who were living in that part of Ukraine.

BROWN: Yes, it is particularly dangerous right now as Russians really focus on the eastern part.

Vladyslav, you know, you left Ukraine for a vacation two days before the invasion. I'm curious, were you concerned that this could happen and you'd possibly get stuck? I mean, you know, there were warnings that this could happen, that Russia was building up its force on the border. I know many Ukrainian thought, look, he's been doing that -- you know, Putin has been a threat for many years. So what was your mindset at that time? VLADYSLAV BURDENIUK, UKRAINIAN CITIZEN: Yes. We actually left for

vacation on February 5th and we were going back home on the 26th of February when everything started. So, you know, actually, yes, we had some concerns because all this news had been around like for a while. I think from October, November of 2021 that Russians near the Ukraine borders and something might happen.

But actually we didn't think that we cannot go back home at the moment actually. So we thought, yes, maybe some escalation on the eastern part of Ukraine, but probably it wouldn't affect Kyiv or the major cities. So yes, it was hard for us to believe that something was happening.

BROWN: Right. I imagine so. Oksana, have you considered trying to return home? What is your plan to the extent you can have one right now?

[18:20:02]

TUNIKOVA: Well, for now we are monitoring the situation. And on good days we get like very positive news and with some hope that soon like the sky is going to be open for regular flights and when things start to de-escalate. For now, what we understand is that it's not only impossible to travel safely home but it's also like not a very good and responsible idea because so many people are trying to evacuate danger zones, and we live in Kyiv where now it's more or less OK but still like it's impossible to call it safe.

And so what we hear from the officials from our country is that if you can stay in a safe place right now it makes the job of our army a lot easier. It's easier to defend cities and villages if there are like less civilians there. So for now we're staying, we're monitoring the situation and, of course we would love to return to Ukraine. It's April. It's one of the most beautiful cities in the whole country.

But for now we're staying and just checking on the news and checking on the friends who are there and trying to understand what will be the best time to get back home.

BROWN: So I'm wondering then, on that note, Vladyslav, you know, you started your vacation in California. You're in New York right now. What have you been up to day-to-day? I mean, do you just wake up, check the news? Do you know anyone in the U.S.? Do you have any travel plans in the U.S. while you're here? Just wondering what you're going to do.

BURDENIUK: We just work, actually. So we work. All we can do is to work. Of course we check the news, so we talk to our friends. Some of them are in Kyiv. Some of them are in other parts of Ukraine. We talk to them regularly. And, yes, the best thing we can do is just to work. I have parents in Ukraine.

So I need to help them with some money as well. So the best thing we can do is just to, of course, we are going to some (INAUDIBLE) here in New York. Yesterday actually we were there, so we're trying to like bring the attention of American people to think about Ukraine, to hear about Ukraine, and yes, trying to do our best here somehow to help our country.

BROWN: And you work for a Ukrainian-American startup Allset that is raising money. Tell us a little bit more about this company and what the money will be used for.

BURDENIUK: Yes, as you mentioned I work in Allset. It's a Ukrainian- American startup and our founders are Ukrainians. So from the first days of this Russian invasion, the war, we started to think about what we can do to help and we'll bring a few initiatives. The first one was like we partnered with Ukrainian-American council to make some fundraising and all the funds are going to some medical and humanitarian supplies.

Also we promoted some banners on our app and the Web site to show our users what is happening in Ukraine so they can just go and help us, donate to Ukraine. And also as you know, we created (INAUDIBLE) for debt companies so they know what's going on in Ukraine and how they can help us by like debt companies have a lot of input and they can help us a lot and we tried to speak to them and that initiative was also successful. Yes, that's pretty it. What we tried and also each of us are trying to do our best on our own.

BROWN: Yes. Oksana, quickly, final words to you, if you would, the message you want to get across to those watching right now about your families, friends, and fellow Ukrainians back home.

TUNIKOVA: Yes. I think like the most important message I could send right now for the entire world is to not try to treating this crazy news as normal. I know it's very easy to really get used to news that is terrifying, but war and invasions like this, they should never become a norm. And I would just encourage everyone to keep thinking about Ukraine, praying about Ukraine, raising awareness about everything that's happening to the Ukrainian people right now and never accept it as something that it just goes on and on.

BROWN: All right. Well, Vladyslav, Oksana, thank you both for your time. And we wish you the best of luck, to you and your families as well.

BURDENIUK: Thank you. Thank you so much.

TUNIKOVA: Thank you so much. Thanks for having us.

BROWN: Well, the situation in Ukraine is putting new emphasis on the presidential election in France. Current President Emmanuel Macron tried to convince Vladimir Putin not to invade Ukraine.

[18:25:08]

Now he may face his far-right rival in a run-off. An update just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The first-round results of France's presidential elections appear set to advance President Emmanuel Macron against his right-wing rival Marine Le Pen in a run-off again. Early results show Macron and Le Pen are the frontrunners but neither got more than 50 percent needed to avoid a run-off, which is set for April 24th. Election watchers think it will be much closer than their race five years ago.

[18:30:11]

With Ukrainian President Zelenskyy renewing his calls for more arms support from the West, there's a fierce debate playing out in Washington over whether the Biden administration is doing enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SULLIVAN: We will continue to take every step we possibly can to help the Ukrainians succeed on the battlefield and to improve their position at the negotiating table.

CHENEY: I wasn't satisfied with what I heard. I think that it's crucially important the United States be clear that we are absolutely committed to Zelenskyy's victory. We should not be talking about, as Jake Sullivan did just now, improving Zelenskyy's position at the negotiating table. This is about defeating Russian forces in Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: My next guest sits on the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman John Garamendi of California.

Hi, Congressman. Curious, what do you make of your Republican --

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Good to be with you, Pamela.

BROWN: Great to be with you again. I want to know what you make of your Republican colleague's comments there. You know, with Russian forces seemingly on the back foot right now, is now the time to give Ukrainians more tools, the tools they really need to give them an edge on the battlefield that they don't already have right now?

GARAMENDI: Well, we're certainly going to do everything possible short of entering the war ourselves to give Ukraine everything that it needs, and we're doing that. There's more than well over $1.5 billion of military equipment, and that's flowing in day by day, all of the Stingers, the Javelins and now the air defense systems, all of that is happening.

Liz Cheney really expressed the view that all of us have. We want Ukraine to whip Putin. We want them to win, period, outright. Push them out of the country. At the same time we have to be aware of what Zelenskyy is saying. President Zelenskyy says we'll negotiate as soon as this next battle is over. Well, hopefully the next battle will be a complete victory. If it's not, then the negotiations are going to be up to Zelenskyy, whatever he would like to put forward.

And he's also said the Ukrainian people will express their will in a referendum following whatever negotiations do take place.

BROWN: So just to be clear though -- GARAMENDI: Nevertheless all us -- sure.

BROWN: And I just understand what you're saying, but is the U.S. doing everything that it can do to equip the Ukrainians to wage this war against the Russians, or is there anything more you think the U.S. could be doing right now? And when I say anything more, not just providing weapons but being faster in providing weapons or faster in providing intelligence, that kind of thing?

GARAMENDI: Well, regarding the challenges, most of that is classified but there's been some public reports that the United States is providing intelligence. Also intelligence is readily available from other sources, commercial sources with satellite imaging and the like. Now with all -- what else can we do? The issue of the MiG-29s remains possible, that is a possibility. I'm sure that is continuing to be worked on.

There are countries, Poland specifically, that could make planes available. I frankly think that that should be done. I've had discussions with military leaders and National Guard officers that have been working in Ukraine training the Ukrainian military for the last decade and they say that Ukraine could use those airplanes to good effect. Beyond that we are sending in from various NATO countries with the support of the United States backfilling in some cases vehicles, armored vehicles of various kinds, and I understand that some of the NATO countries that have Soviet-style tanks, those may be made available also.

And each one of those cases, the United States is backfilling providing American equipment to replace the older Soviet equipment. Can we do more? I know that the administration is questioning every day the diplomats and the Ukrainian military saying, OK, now what do you need now?

And the supplies are flowing every day into Ukraine. More than, well, a week ago it was more than 200 military cargo planes have been flying from the United States into Europe to provide additional equipment. Those flights are continuing probably perhaps 300 now that another week has gone by.

BROWN: I want to get to this question about genocide. That is something that a lot of people have been talking about. Is this genocide that we're seeing play out here? And I want our viewers to understand the definition here, the U.N. defines genocide as, quote, "Acts committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part a national ethnic ethnical, racial or religious group."

[18:35:12]

This morning National Security adviser Jake Sullivan downplayed the significance of the label genocide. He wouldn't come out and call it that. Do you think this is genocide, and do you think the administration should be more forceful and call it that?

GARAMENDI: Well, certainly the administration has been very, very clear about it being a war crime or war crimes continuing on. I know all of our hearts are just broken and just so sad and upset about what we see in the videos. So clearly we have war crimes.

Your definition of genocide, I think, does fit in this area because Putin right at the outset has been very clear that he wants to break Ukraine's national identity and return Ukraine to the Russian fold, and he's doing it with horrendous war crimes along the way. So I do think genocide fits given the definition that you so correctly and completely laid out.

BROWN: Do you think that then the administration should come out and call it that?

GARAMENDI: I think so. Certainly the president has gone beyond that and has said -- excuse me, the president has not gone beyond that to say genocide, but the president has been very clear and raised quite a fuss around the world when he said Putin must go. Putin cannot continue to lead the Russian Federation. That in its own way was a very important message that the president put forth to the entire world and we continue to isolate Putin.

We continue to increase every day the sanctions of one sort or another. So all these things are taking place. Is it enough? Well, we're going to continue to push every kind of military equipment we can, we'll continue to push all the sanctions. The one thing that we've not been able to do and, frankly, I don't understand why we've not succeeded at least in some small way, is to provide the Russian people with a counter message to the internal propaganda that Putin is flooding the Russian media with.

BROWN: Yes. You must think that social media companies, government officials, that is something that they've at least weighed. So far that has not happened.

Congressman John Garamendi, thank you so much.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

BROWN: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Up next on this Sunday, he didn't win another green jacket but Tiger Woods is claiming a victory of sorts at the Masters. CNN is live from Augusta up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIGER WOODS, FIVE-TIME MASTERS CHAMPION: This tournament has meant so much to me and my family. You know, this entire tournament.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:42:27]

BROWN: Dramatic new video from inside a burning Home Depot store. A shopper shot this video yesterday at San Jose, California, not long after the fire started. Firefighters arrived a minute or so later and it turned into a massive blaze that could be seen from space. Fire officials say thankfully no one was injured. Well, it is the final day of the 2022 Masters and Tiger Woods is

firmly out of the running now, but his incredible comeback is still one of the biggest stories in golf. Just 14 months after his serious leg injury from a car crash. Scottie Scheffler, the top ranked golfer in the world, is still leading the field.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in Augusta, Georgia. So, Dianne, will Scheffler be the one putting on that green jacket?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not quite over yet, Pamela, but at this point it does appear that he has pulled too far away for anyone to be able to actually catch up to him. But never say never. Don't want to jinx anybody.

I will say, Pamela, what we got to witness today is something that a year ago we weren't sure if we'd ever see it again. Tiger Woods being cheered on by thousands of fans on the 18th hole wearing red on a Sunday at the Masters here in Augusta. Now obviously it was not vintage Tiger on the course. He tied on Saturday and today for his worst round at the Masters in his career, so the play wasn't where Tiger wanted it to be, but it was the fact that he was able to walk all those 72 holes, even qualify for the Masters just 14 months after that car accident that shattered his leg.

He was lucky to survive himself with metal rods and plates in his leg. He said that he wasn't sure if his body would allow him to compete. And that's what he wanted to see here. He made the cut when many other of the top-ranked golfers did not. Tiger saying at the beginning of the week, you know, I think that I would not play unless I thought I could win, but his tune a little softer now, saying that he seems to acknowledge how remarkable what he accomplished really was and that he was grateful for what he did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOODS: It's been a tough road and, you know, one I'm very thankful to have the opportunity to be able to grind through it. A lot of different things could have happened but 14 months I'm able to tee it up and play in the Masters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:45:03]

GALLAGHER: Truly remarkable. Now look, no sixth green jacket for Tiger Woods, Pamela, but he says that he does plan to play in the open championship at St. Andrew's and is considering maybe the PGA championship. Just not sure about that yet.

You talked about Scottie Scheffler, well, he's wearing Tiger Woods Nike shoes today as he will likely get that green jacket.

BROWN: Dianne, thank you so much.

Up next, her husband is a Supreme Court justice but that didn't stop Ginni Thomas from working behind the scenes to overturn the 2020 election. We have new details up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:00]

BROWN: Tonight, CNN is learning more about what Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, was doing behind the scenes to influence the Trump White House. My colleagues Marshal Cohen, Gabby (INAUDIBLE) spoke to 14 sources about how she used her time with former President Trump to promote her agenda, even before her bombshell texts with then chief of staff Mark Meadows where she repeatedly urged him to help overturn the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINNI THOMAS, WIFE OF SUPREME COURT JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS: I call myself a trouble maker for liberty.

BROWN (voice-over): One week after the 2018 midterms, sources tell CNN Ginni Thomas seized an opportunity for Facetime with President Trump during a lunch at the White House with her husband, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. She cajoled Trump to install her friends and allies in his administration, but by then, Ginni Thomas had developed a reputation.

Former White House officials say several people she had suggested for positions failed background checks. Some candidates had posted outlandish things on social media. One candidate, an official noted, didn't think women belonged in the military.

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We should all be scrambling to do damage control knowing that once she left she would be telling us who need to be fired, who was a never Trumper in the White House or the administration, who was in the deep state because she would come with a list of people who should be fired.

BROWN: It came to a head in January 2019.

THOMAS: Hello, Patriots.

BROWN: Sources say that meeting had been delayed because aides worried Ginni Thomas would torpedo Jared Kushner's criminal justice reform effort, an idea she opposed. Instead, at the meeting she once again accused White House aides of blocking jobs for Trump supporters.

THOMAS: The second Reagan revolution is growing.

BROWN: In an interview published Thursday, former President Donald Trump told the "Washington Post" he talked at times with Ginni Thomas but wasn't aware of her cheerleading efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Trump said, quote, "First of all her husband is a great justice. And she's a fine woman and she loves our country."

Critics say it's inappropriate for Ginni Thomas to weigh in on key issues that could come before her husband on the high court. Justice Thomas recently was the lone dissent when the high court decided Trump White House records should be turned to the House committee investigating the January 6th insurrection.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: The problem is it creates an enormous appearance of impropriety that Justice Thomas is ruling on these issues when his wife is intimately involved in the underlying fact.

BROWN: But Ginni Thomas's former boss in Washington, Congressman Hal Daub, defensed Thomas saying she has a long history advocating more conservative policies in line with her husband's views.

HAL DAUB (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I think that they probably talk about everything at the appropriate time but I also think they recognize their station in life and that they're circumspect in that regard.

BROWN: Lawmakers are split on if Justice Thomas should recuse himself on cases relating to January 6th or the 2020 election.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I have total confidence not only in Justice Thomas but the other Supreme Court justices to make the decisions themselves as to when they should recuse from a case.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT): Obviously he should recuse himself just for what it would say about the -- about the court in a case like this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ginni Thomas did not comment for this story. But when those text messages between Ginni Thomas and Mark Meadows were revealed in late March, CNN reported through my colleague Jamie Gangel and Zachary Cohen that the January 6th committee did want to reach out and seek an interview with Ginni Thomas. So far that has not happened.

Ahead, on CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday, satellite images show an eight- mile-long Russian military convoy heading toward Kharkiv. It may mark a new phase of fighting in Russia's war against Ukraine.

But first, there was no one like Anthony Bourdain. This is a story you have not heard from the people who knew him best, "ROADRUNNER," a film about Anthony Bourdain premieres tonight at 9:00 on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN: My life. It's a gift, a dream, a curse. I shall explain. I got very lucky. One minute I was standing next to a deep fryer, and the next, everything in my life changed. I was unqualified for the job. I was in deep waters and fast flowing ones at that. The currents could change at any time without warning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was definitely searching for something and was kind of agony for him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was such a romantic about life, about families, and reality was never going to live up to exactly how he pictured it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was about Tony learning how to be a better person.

[18:55:01]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a good karma.

BOURDAIN: How is this food-related? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) if I know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Hi, I'm Pamela Brown in Washington, you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.